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MMORPGs Are Dead -- How to Resurrect the Genre

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  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    STOP paying for cash shop items!!!!

    Hard to do it ! Most players supporting it,it is reality  ... none can stop it.

     

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Amjoco

    The only way...

    You are fixing problem that does not exist.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    More blood on the floor of those continuing to make the game production decisions that have put the genre where it is.

    (blood = lost company investment and revenue.....and the jobs of those responsible for the garbage we have today)

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,552Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ColumbiaTrue

     MMORPGs Are Dead -- How to Resurrect the Genre

     

    Someone mentioned this on another thread I cannot remember who but PC's are what is outdated not games. Improve the computer and games will follow.


  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,791Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal

    Someone mentioned this on another thread I cannot remember who but PC's are what is outdated not games. Improve the computer and games will follow.

    That's a bit of a far flung assertion.

     

    The problem with PCs would probably be better characterized by how much variety exists in the platform. You have people playing on hardware that's sometimes over five years old, and that creates a great disparity in the kind of performance you can expect out of each game played.

     

    When you cater to the present generation of hardware on the PC, you cut out a vast majority of the player base and potential market.

     

    As a result, making a game that performs capably for machines up to a couple years old tends to be the better goal. That means sacrificing some elements that would be interesting, but too taxing to implement.

     

    This is perhaps why I agreed with a notion made a while back that the production of future titles needs to happen on a smaller scale. Devs catering to a more targeted player base with a more defined aim, so they can deliver a more complete experience.

     

    By doing that, they are offered the ability to experiment with novel design a bit more, and implement concepts that the user base as a whole might not be keen or capable of capitalizing on.

    This doesn't have to be the death-knell of greater community either. Due to the capacity to create meta-game and inter-game elements, you could very well have separate games with very different play styles capable of feeding into one another by being able to send in-game content between one another.

    CCP tried doing this with EVE and Dust, be it in a somewhat flailing fashion. The principle exists though for people to experiment with and refine into a practical concept.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

  • BennuBennu Palos Verdes Peninsula, CAPosts: 42Member Uncommon
    MMO's would become alive again to me if people were forced to work together to achieve anything in game.....ie high rate of failure.  I know the term "forced" will turn many people off, but it is the only thing that will keep me engaged in a game for over a month.
  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,779Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Amjoco

    The only way...

     

    You are fixing problem that does not exist.

    I do agree the genre isn't dead for sure, but it's missing it's shine. 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Amjoco

    I do agree the genre isn't dead for sure, but it's missing it's shine. 

    MMO market is bigger than ever, it is just evolving into a direction not fitting your personal liking. That is your personal issue though, not the genre.

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon

    The problem I have with the OP and people that support the "this or that" mentality is not his vision (or passion) for mmorpgs per se, but the folly of writing off an entire genre based on the gamestyle choices within it.  For these people there is no point of compromising. They see things as either "this or that", dead or alive, good or bad. There is no leeway because they pretty much believe compromise eventually leads to total destruction (in the case of people siding with the OP).

     

    Most of them probably dislike cash shops, F2P mmorpgs, instance zones and features of convenience (i.e. LFG tools, AHs and such). And prefer mmorpgs that don't include any of those things listed, while I choose to reserve judgment by playing first.

     

    Many of them view WoW as nothing more than a highly advertised fluke to spoon feed the ignorant masses on Blizzard's version of EQ lite. And anything produced after WoW is usually dismissed as nothing more than a reskinned, shallow clone. They prefer sandbox to themepark, grouping to solo and grinding to questing. And without even much thought they often throw about insults at people who enjoy the latter(or in my case both) of those choices.

     

    With some of these up and coming mmorpgs they see the possibility of finally "showing" the ignorant masses what they have been missing by choosing to promote the development of themepark mmos rather than sandbox.

     

    But I do not share that somewhat rigid state of mind. For me the genre is expanding, not switching or changing. And I see everything they see happening in the genre but without all the bravado that comes along with it.  For me there is ALWAYS room for diversity in the genre. And I welcome and often enjoy several games that call this genre home. The "this or that" mentality has no room for diversity or compromise. They see things in black and white, good or bad, chocolate or vanilla. They are looking for one game to come along and justify the genre for them. This is why it's so easy for them to dismiss an entire genre. And while my passions about the genre come from mostly the diversity within it, their passion comes from mostly the choices within it.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by inporylemQQ

    Originally posted by Grahor
    >>MMORPGs are dead. - Gone are the living worlds with players that logged in day after day for years on end.<<And good f...g riddance.
    I guess people noticed that spending their life in front of a computer is retarded.
    ROFLMAO The irony is too precious :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me.
    For me, this is false. I am truly happy that millions of players enjoy MMOs today. I really am.

    I just want ONE MMORPG that *I* can enjoy like I did "way back when." If *you* can not handle that request, then I wonder who really is the one wanting EVERY MMO made to be to their liking, being the center of the universe.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me.

    For me, this is false. I am truly happy that millions of players enjoy MMOs today. I really am.

     

    I just want ONE MMORPG that *I* can enjoy like I did "way back when." If *you* can not handle that request, then I wonder who really is the one wanting EVERY MMO made to be to their liking, being the center of the universe.

    That's asking quite a lot though, isn't it? To ask a development studio to tailor a game to your specific wants and needs?

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Early MMORPGs had no sense of pacing and involved some truly awful timesinks.  Modern MMORPGs are much better at pacing, even if they're still unreliable at providing high quality gameplay.
    But they DID have a sense of pacing, just not what you found enjoyable. It was just too slow for your tastes. Does not mean they did not have a sense of pacing.

    I agree that some of the time sinks I did not enjoy. But we differ greatly on what a "time sink" is. Anything one does in a game is a "time sink." It takes time away from the player that they could be doing something else. It keeps them playing. Our "tolerances" differ, neither one being "superior."

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • CelciusCelcius Franklin, TNPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    You can't resurrect something that is not dead.
  • Aldous.HuxleyAldous.Huxley Monticello, MNPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me.

    For me, this is false. I am truly happy that millions of players enjoy MMOs today. I really am.

     

    I just want ONE MMORPG that *I* can enjoy like I did "way back when." If *you* can not handle that request, then I wonder who really is the one wanting EVERY MMO made to be to their liking, being the center of the universe.

    That's asking quite a lot though, isn't it? To ask a development studio to tailor a game to your specific wants and needs?

    Yes, how dare he want for something. He should be more like the buddha if he wants to post in the same threads as your majesty.

  • SinisterFSinisterF Montreal, QCPosts: 1Member

    It is possible that you do not enjoy MMOs as much as before however the genre is very far from been dead. It would be easy to blame the games on the market but the truth is that there is plenty of high quality MMOs and if you can't find any that you enjoy well I'm sorry to say that but the problem is you.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me.

    For me, this is false. I am truly happy that millions of players enjoy MMOs today. I really am.

     

    I just want ONE MMORPG that *I* can enjoy like I did "way back when." If *you* can not handle that request, then I wonder who really is the one wanting EVERY MMO made to be to their liking, being the center of the universe.

    That's asking quite a lot though, isn't it? To ask a development studio to tailor a game to your specific wants and needs?

    Yes, how dare he want for something. He should be more like the buddha if he wants to post in the same threads as your majesty.

    Settle down there buddy.

     

    It's fine to want things or prefer things, but expecting that perfect game that fits your specific wants and needs will inevitably lead to disappointment. The developers actually have to make decisions about what kind of systems and content go into the game. For instance, you can not both have a LFD system and not have one simultaneously. As the list of features and types of content grows longer, it gets harder and harder to hit that sweet spot for anyone in specific.

     

    And so, do you not think that it is a lot to ask of a development studio to tailor a game to your specific wants and needs?

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me.
    For me, this is false. I am truly happy that millions of players enjoy MMOs today. I really am.I just want ONE MMORPG that *I* can enjoy like I did "way back when." If *you* can not handle that request, then I wonder who really is the one wanting EVERY MMO made to be to their liking, being the center of the universe.
    That's asking quite a lot though, isn't it? To ask a development studio to tailor a game to your specific wants and needs?
    Really? Does not every gamer seek to find games that they enjoy?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    "In a world where MMOs are on the brink of destruction, one man can save them all. He is...

    The Revenue Generator!"

    Honestly this industry is just about to get interesting. You watch...
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me.

    For me, this is false. I am truly happy that millions of players enjoy MMOs today. I really am.

     

    I just want ONE MMORPG that *I* can enjoy like I did "way back when." If *you* can not handle that request, then I wonder who really is the one wanting EVERY MMO made to be to their liking, being the center of the universe.


    That's asking quite a lot though, isn't it? To ask a development studio to tailor a game to your specific wants and needs?
    Really? Does not every gamer seek to find games that they enjoy?

    Yeah, definitely. Sometimes it just seems like the expectations of what people want are so high and so specific that people sometimes miss out on some of the good stuff that is out there.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by colddog04
    It's fine to want things or prefer things, but expecting that perfect game that fits your specific wants and needs will inevitably lead to disappointment. The developers actually have to make decisions about what kind of systems and content go into the game. For instance, you can not both have a LFD system and not have one simultaneously. As the list of features and types of content grows longer, it gets harder and harder to hit that sweet spot for anyone in specific.And so, do you not think that it is a lot to ask of a development studio to tailor a game to your specific wants and needs?
    Let me see if I got this right...

    For example sake only:
    You like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. You are happy.
    I don't like LFD systems. I am selfish for wanting an MMO that does not have this feature.

    Now, let's reverse this:
    I like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. I am happy.
    You don't like LFD systems. Now, are you selfish for wanting a game that does not have this feature?

    Is that pretty much the point?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by colddog04
    It's fine to want things or prefer things, but expecting that perfect game that fits your specific wants and needs will inevitably lead to disappointment. The developers actually have to make decisions about what kind of systems and content go into the game. For instance, you can not both have a LFD system and not have one simultaneously. As the list of features and types of content grows longer, it gets harder and harder to hit that sweet spot for anyone in specific.

     

    And so, do you not think that it is a lot to ask of a development studio to tailor a game to your specific wants and needs?


    Let me see if I got this right...

     

    For example sake only:
    You like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. You are happy.
    I don't like LFD systems. I am selfish for wanting an MMO that does not have this feature.

    Now, let's reverse this:
    I like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. I am happy.
    You don't like LFD systems. Now, are you selfish for wanting a game that does not have this feature?

    Is that pretty much the point?

    No... that's not my point. Why would it not be possible to like a game with or without a LFD system? It's the specificity of the wants that make it nearly impossible to enjoy anything because it is nearly impossible for developers to meet enough of the criteria laid out by someone that wants something so specific.

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 665Member Uncommon

    Simple give every gamer that expects they should have everything for free a lobotomy and restore MMO's to the glory days of the pre WOW era

     

    Otherwise gamer entitlement, and content locusts will continue to ruin every single game that come out...

     

    Respect to all the indy devs who are taking the "screw the masses" road and making niche sub games catering to a smaller group of people who understand the market and do not want loads of F2Pers leeching off them.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    Let me see if I got this right...For example sake only:
    You like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. You are happy.
    I don't like LFD systems. I am selfish for wanting an MMO that does not have this feature.Now, let's reverse this:
    I like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. I am happy.
    You don't like LFD systems. Now, are you selfish for wanting a game that does not have this feature?Is that pretty much the point?

    No... that's not my point. Why would it not be possible to like a game with or without a LFD system? It's the specificity of the wants that make it nearly impossible to enjoy anything because it is nearly impossible for developers to meet enough of the criteria laid out by someone that wants something so specific.
    I took the one feature you mentioned as an example. Of course it is going to be specific. That does not negate the premise of "shoe on the other foot."

    The general feel of MMOs today are what I find lacking. This equates to many, many things working in tandem. No MMO released lately have any kind of longevity for me. I have no vested interest in any character I create. The journey to the end is over before it begins. Once there, there is nothing that interests me.

    It is not as "specific" as you are implying. It is much easier and briefer to mention one or two features. I could add a lot more to what I mentioned above. Wouldn't do any good. Some people would probably not even make it to the end of the post.

    Truth be told, I don't group enough for a LFD system to matter that much to me. However, how character evolves makes all the difference to me. If you want to say this a "specificity", so be it. It is much more involved, though.

    Does a game have to be perfect? Of course not! But there sure is a lot of wiggle room between an MMO being enjoyable and perfect.

    PS: This also goes hand in hand to the replies that suggest MMOs with a poster's posted wants in a game. Just because a game has "deep crafting" or is "a sandbox" does not automatically mean that MMO will be enjoyable to that poster.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    Let me see if I got this right...

     

    For example sake only:
    You like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. You are happy.
    I don't like LFD systems. I am selfish for wanting an MMO that does not have this feature.

    Now, let's reverse this:
    I like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. I am happy.
    You don't like LFD systems. Now, are you selfish for wanting a game that does not have this feature?

    Is that pretty much the point?


    No... that's not my point. Why would it not be possible to like a game with or without a LFD system? It's the specificity of the wants that make it nearly impossible to enjoy anything because it is nearly impossible for developers to meet enough of the criteria laid out by someone that wants something so specific.
    I took the one feature you mentioned as an example. Of course it is going to be specific. That does not negate the premise of "shoe on the other foot."

     

    The general feel of MMOs today are what I find lacking. This equates to many, many things working in tandem. No MMO released lately have any kind of longevity for me. I have no vested interest in any character I create. The journey to the end is over before it begins. Once there, there is nothing that interests me.

    It is not as "specific" as you are implying. It is much easier and briefer to mention one or two features. I could add a lot more to what I mentioned above. Wouldn't do any good. Some people would probably not even make it to the end of the post.

    Truth be told, I don't group enough for a LFD system to matter that much to me. However, how character evolves makes all the difference to me. If you want to say this a "specificity", so be it. It is much more involved, though.

    Does a game have to be perfect? Of course not! But there sure is a lot of wiggle room between an MMO being enjoyable and perfect.

    PS: This also goes hand in hand to the replies that suggest MMOs with a poster's posted wants in a game. Just because a game has "deep crafting" or is "a sandbox" does not automatically mean that MMO will be enjoyable to that poster.

    I know you can add a lot more features to the list of things you want and that is precisely the problem. The more that you add to that list, the more difficult it will be for you to find whatever it is you're looking for. On top of that you say that you are looking for a "general feel" and you talk about many things having to work in tandem. You say that how a character evolves is what you care about and you even go on to say that it's very involved.

     

    These things all add up to something very specific that you have created in your head. And because the game gets so specific, it's going to be rare or impossible for a developer to actually meet your needs.

     

    Anyway, I doubt I'm going to convince you of anything. I just think it's tough for those people that are looking for a game to fit them instead of looking to fit into a game.

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