Please don't be shy to show me where i insulted people in this topic or generalized them? if anything i am against it and i even used sarcasm in earlier reply to make my point.
"I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me."
"It is that time of the week again i guess...
*MMORPG's are dead and i am the only expert who knows how to bring it back*"
You don't have to apologize to me or anyone for doing it. These are game forums & that is what happens in them. We should all be aware of that. However, you should at least be aware that you're doing it. And if you are aware, pay the other posters the respect of not insulting their intelligence by pretending you're not.
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac "I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me." "It is that time of the week again i guess...*MMORPG's are dead and i am the only expert who knows how to bring it back*" You don't have to apologize to me or anyone for doing it. These are game forums & that is what happens in them. We should all be aware of that. However, you should at least be aware that you're doing it. And if you are aware, pay the other posters the respect of not insulting their intelligence by pretending you're not.
Originally posted by Elikal I'd say they are indeed dead - for us who are demanding, old fashioned gamers. They changed into cheap watered down fast food.
Apparently the money is with the player that powergrinds to max in 1 week, doesn't give sh*t about the experience+lore in the game and only wants their addiction fed with presents on a weekly basis.
today's MMOs and players client relationships are more dealer-to-addict type.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Perhaps dead is the wrong word... changed is more apt. What you want is to bring back the old... unfortunately it is very likely that if the game you loved most of all, were released today, it would likely not be as endearing to you now as it was back then. They've saturated the market to death. You've played a Warrior how many times in how many games? You've killed dragons of every size and shape in how many games? You've earned achievements both worthless and worthwhile in how many games? How is any game today going to really be fresh and new if you've done it some many times before? It can't. Which is why they need to come up with a new genre of game and let MMORPGs rest for a few years. I don't care how creative the developers think they are or whether they actually put in the things that players always wanted... in the end, it will still fall flat for the simple reason that we've been playing them way too long.
Do you think you could have played Pong for 8 years straight? Pong 2014... now with real3D! It's still Pong no matter how you look at it. The games will never get better... only fail to meet your expectations over and over again because, in the end, you can't go back in time and recapture the flame. Pong faded away for the same reason MMORPGs will... something newer and better will be devised that take us away from them forever. We'll be like... did I actually play games like WoW? They're so lame compared to holographic gaming.
Let's move forward and stop trying to resurrect or keep on life support a genre that has gone it's full course. Let it fade away with Pong so that we can get some holographic gaming going now!
Apparently the money is with the player that powergrinds to max in 1 week, doesn't give sh*t about the experience+lore in the game and only wants their addiction fed with presents on a weekly basis.
today's MMOs and players client relationships are more dealer-to-addict type.
Players are certainly content addicts. Given the book analogies flying around this thread, it's worth pointing out book-lovers are content addicts too -- basically any form of entertainment content consumption can inevitably be likened to addiction, because it's a thing our minds intrinsically crave.
Early MMORPGs had no sense of pacing and involved some truly awful timesinks. Modern MMORPGs are much better at pacing, even if they're still unreliable at providing high quality gameplay.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The "get money like WoW" age looks to finally be coming to a close and we have differing games on the horizon. I beleive this will help bring more players into the fold and make sure titles don't get shutdown along the way.
In retrospect you can't blame companies for what happened in the last eight years. Seeing one company make so much money was far too enticing to pass up. It's run it's course mostly however and now we get to hit the "play" button again after being on pause for so long.
To me it seems that the journey has been lost in favor of the race to end game. Not that I mind quicker leveling, but the content that gets us to the end game has not evolved all that much. There have been some strides forward with dynamic leveling & events, but overall the journey has become somewhat meaningless. SWTOR made some improvements with their story implementation, but I think it ended up being overkill due to countless number of voiced quests that were inevitably forced & had little to do with anything. At times even being strange. For example why would a sith be running errands for some no name empire slug.
I just think the needle needs to be moved in a different direction than what's been put out recently.
Everyone keeps asking. Remember this is all about money. I would enjoy alot of the things being asked for as well, but with game after game after game coming, everygame must be a quick cash grab before the next best thing comes along. The pophlation of people that own a computer that is good enough to play these games and is willing to do so is finite. You take a finite population, divide them gw2, wow, neverwinter, eve........ on and on we have saturated market with to many options. The e perience your looking for can be re attained only through an organized effort from the player base not from game devs. They are only after a quick cash grab. Your better off starting a movement where everyone plays the same game for that month or that quarter...... it sounds next to impossible but there are people out there that want those committed community driven cultures and this would be a place to find them. Heck even our very own mmorpg.com could spearhead and be the central hub. We could subscribe to mmorpg.com pay them a m9nthly fee and be given special ingame rights for whatever game we as the playeds voted on and all play. Room for lots of problems yes but with team first attitudes we can get what we want out of our gaming experience.
The only way, imho is to get rid of all of them but a couple. Force everyone to play one or two games and it will revive the category. The genre is spread out so far that no one stays focused on a single game, and then they can easily hop from game to game hating each one a little at a time.
The epic time when mmmorpgs had their shining moment was when WoW, EQ, and even UO were first released. Since then the genre has been saturated and no one stays focused.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Someone mentioned this on another thread I cannot remember who but PC's are what is outdated not games. Improve the computer and games will follow.
That's a bit of a far flung assertion.
The problem with PCs would probably be better characterized by how much variety exists in the platform. You have people playing on hardware that's sometimes over five years old, and that creates a great disparity in the kind of performance you can expect out of each game played.
When you cater to the present generation of hardware on the PC, you cut out a vast majority of the player base and potential market.
As a result, making a game that performs capably for machines up to a couple years old tends to be the better goal. That means sacrificing some elements that would be interesting, but too taxing to implement.
This is perhaps why I agreed with a notion made a while back that the production of future titles needs to happen on a smaller scale. Devs catering to a more targeted player base with a more defined aim, so they can deliver a more complete experience.
By doing that, they are offered the ability to experiment with novel design a bit more, and implement concepts that the user base as a whole might not be keen or capable of capitalizing on.
This doesn't have to be the death-knell of greater community either. Due to the capacity to create meta-game and inter-game elements, you could very well have separate games with very different play styles capable of feeding into one another by being able to send in-game content between one another.
CCP tried doing this with EVE and Dust, be it in a somewhat flailing fashion. The principle exists though for people to experiment with and refine into a practical concept.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
MMO's would become alive again to me if people were forced to work together to achieve anything in game.....ie high rate of failure. I know the term "forced" will turn many people off, but it is the only thing that will keep me engaged in a game for over a month.
Originally posted by Amjoco I do agree the genre isn't dead for sure, but it's missing it's shine.
MMO market is bigger than ever, it is just evolving into a direction not fitting your personal liking. That is your personal issue though, not the genre.
The problem I have with the OP and people that support the "this or that" mentality is not his vision (or passion) for mmorpgs per se, but the folly of writing off an entire genre based on the gamestyle choices within it. For these people there is no point of compromising. They see things as either "this or that", dead or alive, good or bad. There is no leeway because they pretty much believe compromise eventually leads to total destruction (in the case of people siding with the OP).
Most of them probably dislike cash shops, F2P mmorpgs, instance zones and features of convenience (i.e. LFG tools, AHs and such). And prefer mmorpgs that don't include any of those things listed, while I choose to reserve judgment by playing first.
Many of them view WoW as nothing more than a highly advertised fluke to spoon feed the ignorant masses on Blizzard's version of EQ lite. And anything produced after WoW is usually dismissed as nothing more than a reskinned, shallow clone. They prefer sandbox to themepark, grouping to solo and grinding to questing. And without even much thought they often throw about insults at people who enjoy the latter(or in my case both) of those choices.
With some of these up and coming mmorpgs they see the possibility of finally "showing" the ignorant masses what they have been missing by choosing to promote the development of themepark mmos rather than sandbox.
But I do not share that somewhat rigid state of mind. For me the genre is expanding, not switching or changing. And I see everything they see happening in the genre but without all the bravado that comes along with it. For me there is ALWAYS room for diversity in the genre. And I welcome and often enjoy several games that call this genre home. The "this or that" mentality has no room for diversity or compromise. They see things in black and white, good or bad, chocolate or vanilla. They are looking for one game to come along and justify the genre for them. This is why it's so easy for them to dismiss an entire genre. And while my passions about the genre come from mostly the diversity within it, their passion comes from mostly the choices within it.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Originally posted by Grahor >>MMORPGs are dead. - Gone are the living worlds with players that logged in day after day for years on end.<<And good f...g riddance.
I guess people noticed that spending their life in front of a computer is retarded.
ROFLMAO The irony is too precious
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
"I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me."
"It is that time of the week again i guess...
*MMORPG's are dead and i am the only expert who knows how to bring it back*"
You don't have to apologize to me or anyone for doing it. These are game forums & that is what happens in them. We should all be aware of that. However, you should at least be aware that you're doing it. And if you are aware, pay the other posters the respect of not insulting their intelligence by pretending you're not.
Someone is missing the point here...hard..
Apparently the money is with the player that powergrinds to max in 1 week, doesn't give sh*t about the experience+lore in the game and only wants their addiction fed with presents on a weekly basis.
today's MMOs and players client relationships are more dealer-to-addict type.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Perhaps dead is the wrong word... changed is more apt. What you want is to bring back the old... unfortunately it is very likely that if the game you loved most of all, were released today, it would likely not be as endearing to you now as it was back then. They've saturated the market to death. You've played a Warrior how many times in how many games? You've killed dragons of every size and shape in how many games? You've earned achievements both worthless and worthwhile in how many games? How is any game today going to really be fresh and new if you've done it some many times before? It can't. Which is why they need to come up with a new genre of game and let MMORPGs rest for a few years. I don't care how creative the developers think they are or whether they actually put in the things that players always wanted... in the end, it will still fall flat for the simple reason that we've been playing them way too long.
Do you think you could have played Pong for 8 years straight? Pong 2014... now with real3D! It's still Pong no matter how you look at it. The games will never get better... only fail to meet your expectations over and over again because, in the end, you can't go back in time and recapture the flame. Pong faded away for the same reason MMORPGs will... something newer and better will be devised that take us away from them forever. We'll be like... did I actually play games like WoW? They're so lame compared to holographic gaming.
Let's move forward and stop trying to resurrect or keep on life support a genre that has gone it's full course. Let it fade away with Pong so that we can get some holographic gaming going now!
You can't rewind the past
The only way to learn the secret
...is to press play.”
Players are certainly content addicts. Given the book analogies flying around this thread, it's worth pointing out book-lovers are content addicts too -- basically any form of entertainment content consumption can inevitably be likened to addiction, because it's a thing our minds intrinsically crave.
Early MMORPGs had no sense of pacing and involved some truly awful timesinks. Modern MMORPGs are much better at pacing, even if they're still unreliable at providing high quality gameplay.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
In retrospect you can't blame companies for what happened in the last eight years. Seeing one company make so much money was far too enticing to pass up. It's run it's course mostly however and now we get to hit the "play" button again after being on pause for so long.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
I just think the needle needs to be moved in a different direction than what's been put out recently.
The only way, imho is to get rid of all of them but a couple. Force everyone to play one or two games and it will revive the category. The genre is spread out so far that no one stays focused on a single game, and then they can easily hop from game to game hating each one a little at a time.
The epic time when mmmorpgs had their shining moment was when WoW, EQ, and even UO were first released. Since then the genre has been saturated and no one stays focused.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Seems like a lot of people here didn't get the memo.
"To stop the cart, just shoot the horses."
The original horse is having grandponies now, but is generally considered too aged to pull his cart any more.
Time for the cranial lead injection. This plan is brilliant!
Ya, and the grandponies are all inbred with deformed chromosomes. lol
I have always wondered what would happen if Blizzard activated about 10 Vanilla servers and gave them f2p/cashshop setups.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
What? You don't have unlimited faith in the Smed?
What kind of fan are you?
Hard to do it ! Most players supporting it,it is reality ... none can stop it.
You are fixing problem that does not exist.
More blood on the floor of those continuing to make the game production decisions that have put the genre where it is.
(blood = lost company investment and revenue.....and the jobs of those responsible for the garbage we have today)
Someone mentioned this on another thread I cannot remember who but PC's are what is outdated not games. Improve the computer and games will follow.
That's a bit of a far flung assertion.
The problem with PCs would probably be better characterized by how much variety exists in the platform. You have people playing on hardware that's sometimes over five years old, and that creates a great disparity in the kind of performance you can expect out of each game played.
When you cater to the present generation of hardware on the PC, you cut out a vast majority of the player base and potential market.
As a result, making a game that performs capably for machines up to a couple years old tends to be the better goal. That means sacrificing some elements that would be interesting, but too taxing to implement.
This is perhaps why I agreed with a notion made a while back that the production of future titles needs to happen on a smaller scale. Devs catering to a more targeted player base with a more defined aim, so they can deliver a more complete experience.
By doing that, they are offered the ability to experiment with novel design a bit more, and implement concepts that the user base as a whole might not be keen or capable of capitalizing on.
This doesn't have to be the death-knell of greater community either. Due to the capacity to create meta-game and inter-game elements, you could very well have separate games with very different play styles capable of feeding into one another by being able to send in-game content between one another.
CCP tried doing this with EVE and Dust, be it in a somewhat flailing fashion. The principle exists though for people to experiment with and refine into a practical concept.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I do agree the genre isn't dead for sure, but it's missing it's shine.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
MMO market is bigger than ever, it is just evolving into a direction not fitting your personal liking. That is your personal issue though, not the genre.
The problem I have with the OP and people that support the "this or that" mentality is not his vision (or passion) for mmorpgs per se, but the folly of writing off an entire genre based on the gamestyle choices within it. For these people there is no point of compromising. They see things as either "this or that", dead or alive, good or bad. There is no leeway because they pretty much believe compromise eventually leads to total destruction (in the case of people siding with the OP).
Most of them probably dislike cash shops, F2P mmorpgs, instance zones and features of convenience (i.e. LFG tools, AHs and such). And prefer mmorpgs that don't include any of those things listed, while I choose to reserve judgment by playing first.
Many of them view WoW as nothing more than a highly advertised fluke to spoon feed the ignorant masses on Blizzard's version of EQ lite. And anything produced after WoW is usually dismissed as nothing more than a reskinned, shallow clone. They prefer sandbox to themepark, grouping to solo and grinding to questing. And without even much thought they often throw about insults at people who enjoy the latter(or in my case both) of those choices.
With some of these up and coming mmorpgs they see the possibility of finally "showing" the ignorant masses what they have been missing by choosing to promote the development of themepark mmos rather than sandbox.
But I do not share that somewhat rigid state of mind. For me the genre is expanding, not switching or changing. And I see everything they see happening in the genre but without all the bravado that comes along with it. For me there is ALWAYS room for diversity in the genre. And I welcome and often enjoy several games that call this genre home. The "this or that" mentality has no room for diversity or compromise. They see things in black and white, good or bad, chocolate or vanilla. They are looking for one game to come along and justify the genre for them. This is why it's so easy for them to dismiss an entire genre. And while my passions about the genre come from mostly the diversity within it, their passion comes from mostly the choices within it.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR