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Reticule VS Tab target - your thoughts?

MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon
 
 

I see alot of threads about how reticule is the future of MMORPGs, that action combat requires more skill and somehow has more depth. That all MMORPG's should adopt such a system.

I personally don't believe this. I thought it was so, years ago when Vindictus game out, I was super amazed, and Reticule can be very fun. However MMORPG's really are meant for the long-haul and I find it can become tiring after awhile, being constantly vigilant. You got a scratch? You can't or you die. You wanna eat a snack while grouping? Can't. Wanna mindlessly grind some task? Can't.

Then there is also the debate about how it's more "skill based." one could make this argument, but I disagree again. I am a lover of games like Jedi Academy, Devil May Cry, Chivalry, Mount & Blade. But really it becomes almost the same after awhile. Press keys 1-4 for your attacks, or RMB / LMB top perform a combo. It ends up just being as monotone as Tab target can be - except you've got to put alot energy into it.

 

Tab target on the other hand, allows for better animations, more interesting skills, and depth that you can't have with action based combat. They both have their ups and downs, but after years of believing how action combat such as Vindictus was going to revolutionize the MMORPG, and how it must be more skill based, I've played alot of new MMOs since then and changed my opinion on the matter.

 

Both require skill. That's why I dislike fans of reticule who say they won't play a MMO without "action combat", because it's not skill based. I also dislike fans of tab target who won't do action combat because they say they don't want twitch based skill in a game. One requires dexterity, the other theoretical thinking. Both require their own type of skill, neither is more skill based in the end, I find.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

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Comments

  • pauly6478pauly6478 binghamton, NYPosts: 276Member

    I like both but I do like the mechanics of aiming my skills because it does take more skill. Having to aim a skill is and will always be much harder then auto lock. Its like playing a shooter with autotarget and manual target. One is just easier. 

     

    But I do agree it does tend to get tedious after awhile aiming all the time.

    I like both but I think most players now are just tired of the same ol garbage so they like having to aim now.

     

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,479Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pauly6478

    I like both but I do like the mechanics of aiming my skills because it does take more skill. Having to aim a skill is and will always be much harder then auto lock. Its like playing a shooter with autotarget and manual target. One is just easier. 

     

    But I do agree it does tend to get tedious after awhile aiming all the time.

    I like both but I think most players now are just tired of the same ol garbage so they like having to aim now.

     

     Aiming isn't hard or very skillful in my opinion.  One could make a game where you had to hop on one leg to use abilities.  That would require skill as well, but after some time it would just make me tired.

  • ZooceZooce B, FLPosts: 586Member
    How does a tab-target game incorporate friendly-fire?  Anyone with minimal fps experience knows FF requires more skill.
  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    maybe i m an old school player, but when it comes to mmo's, tab target is my only option
  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Pile It High Town, LAPosts: 2,010Member Common

    Tab target, if you want any social aspect to the game.

    If you're twitching, you ain't typing, and if you ain't typing, you ain't talking.

  • RhazmuzRhazmuz Posts: 208Member Uncommon

    Tab targeting is old, tedious, slow and boring.

    Its like the old saying, when you once go black, you never..... Same for reticule/action combat.

    It also about the combat being fun, engaging you and making you pay attention. IMO action combat does this better.

  • ArakaziArakazi OxfordPosts: 889Member
    I thought I wouldn't like reticule, but when I played Tera, although I didn't like the overall game so much, I found playing a ranger pretty fun. Would like to see more twitch based combat MMOs.
  • RhazmuzRhazmuz Posts: 208Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10

    Tab target, if you want any social aspect to the game.

    If you're twitching, you ain't typing, and if you ain't typing, you ain't talking.

    You heard of voice chat? Try it out.

  • gunmanvladgunmanvlad BucharestPosts: 250Member Uncommon

    I think the problem used to be that hardware and internet speeds weren't fast enough for Action MMOs. Now, since the problem has mostly gone away, the path is clear.

    There is literally NO doubt in my mind that Reticule combat requires far more skill, as it adds 1 particularly important element: dodging. The single simple idea that u can (and need to) dodge some attacks is pretty much the most interesting part about modern MMOs. 

    Note that any MMO with soft-targeting (e.g. GW 2) is, in my eyes, a "reticule" combat game, as it allows for any swings to hit multiple opponents, projectiles to get blocked by solid objects, etc. + dodging. And people in these games cry a lot due to stuff being "omg impossible" because they're used to simply getting top-gear and face-rolling everything in the game.

     

    Heck, go into Neverwinter (Online) right now, group up, u'll notice that 80% of all players are mindless retards who can't dodge, can't aim a skill, nothing (but most have virtually the best gear available due to the cash-shop). Which is probably why Tab-targeting is more enjoyable in MMOs...skill there is far less important; you have the gear, you can do the content...don't have the gear, probably can't do it. And for others, anyone can simply inspect you to see how likely u are to be decent, and won't risk wasting hours in a dungeon trying to explain the concept of "dodge big bad attacks".

  • DoomsDay01DoomsDay01 Charlotte, NCPosts: 780Member Common
    Tab targeting all the way. If I want twitch combat, I play fps's for that. I like my tab targets when it comes to mmos. Tab targeting takes skill to, you tab and fire at the wrong mob, you can kill your entire group.
  • RhazmuzRhazmuz Posts: 208Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DoomsDay01
     Tab targeting takes skill to, you tab and fire at the wrong mob, you can kill your entire group.

    Lool yea okay, if that is the bar, sure, tab targetting takes skills as well "rolls eyes"

  • OberholzerOberholzer Hasbrouck Heights, NJPosts: 498Member
    I like both and have enjoyed playing both. Generally I'm hoping  for more in a game to excite me than just the combat. It's important to enjoy the combat of course but I need more. 
  • DoomsDay01DoomsDay01 Charlotte, NCPosts: 780Member Common
    Originally posted by Rhazmuz
    Originally posted by DoomsDay01
     Tab targeting takes skill to, you tab and fire at the wrong mob, you can kill your entire group.

    Lool yea okay, if that is the bar, sure, tab targetting takes skills as well "rolls eyes"

    Laugh all you want, I have seen many wipes cause some idiot tabs the wrong mob and brings a train onto the group. I would in fact argue that tab targeting, especially in a dungeon full of mobs can require more skill than reticule targeting. Not all mmos make tab target the next closest mob which can cause lots of problems if you are not good at it.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    Don't care.There's room for both hardcore MMORPGs and action orientated hybrid MMORPGs,I just hope that action MMORPGs don't lead to the stopping of Hardcore MMORPGs like action RPGs did to hardcore turn based single player MMORPGs in the 2000s,which are now making a comeback on tablets and kickstarter.
  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,446Member Uncommon

    If tab targeting weren't so boringly similar to everything else with tab targeting I might still like it. The only great advantage with it is you can hit targets that don't make sense because of LoS. A massive attack goes through your team leader and an enemy to land a devastating hit to some guy's face 30m away. If aiming, something like that would take some navigating before your shot lines up without obsticals(which could be fun). Aiming and attacking has always felt more active. Even more so in FPV. Ok, so maybe you can't eat a sandwhich, chat with your friends, while on a murderous rampage. Not all of them need to be that casual anyway.

  • StuddleyStuddley Scottville, MIPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by Mkilbride
     
     

    I see alot of threads about how reticule is the future of MMORPGs, that action combat requires more skill and somehow has more depth. That all MMORPG's should adopt such a system.

    I personally don't believe this. I thought it was so, years ago when Vindictus game out, I was super amazed, and Reticule can be very fun. However MMORPG's really are meant for the long-haul and I find it can become tiring after awhile, being constantly vigilant. You got a scratch? You can't or you die. You wanna eat a snack while grouping? Can't. Wanna mindlessly grind some task? Can't.

    Then there is also the debate about how it's more "skill based." one could make this argument, but I disagree again. I am a lover of games like Jedi Academy, Devil May Cry, Chivalry, Mount & Blade. But really it becomes almost the same after awhile. Press keys 1-4 for your attacks, or RMB / LMB top perform a combo. It ends up just being as monotone as Tab target can be - except you've got to put alot energy into it.

     

    Tab target on the other hand, allows for better animations, more interesting skills, and depth that you can't have with action based combat. They both have their ups and downs, but after years of believing how action combat such as Vindictus was going to revolutionize the MMORPG, and how it must be more skill based, I've played alot of new MMOs since then and changed my opinion on the matter.

     

    Both require skill. That's why I dislike fans of reticule who say they won't play a MMO without "action combat", because it's not skill based. I also dislike fans of tab target who won't do action combat because they say they don't want twitch based skill in a game. One requires dexterity, the other theoretical thinking. Both require their own type of skill, neither is more skill based in the end, I find.

     

    What are your thoughts?

     

    I guess it depends on what the player considers "skills". As you mentioned, they take different types of skill. While tab-targeting has it's decisions to be made (spell choices/ combos, where to stand, who to target, and so on), it just seems to me that active targeting has all of them; plus aiming and moving too. If you can eat a sandwich while in combat in one and not in the other it would seem like the latter would require more "combat" type skills. Eating a sandwich should be more of a crafting time kind of thing. Just my opinion. 

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon

    As a fan of various real action games, I've always found MMO "action" a bit ridiculous. People say TERA requires skill because of its reticule-based combat, but how much skill do you need to hit a slow-moving monster that covers half of your screen? Quake 3 requires skill. CS requires skill. TERA's aiming? Please. It's so easy you might as well switch to tab targeting. Besides, many action games, including series like Devil May Cry, let you lock on an enemy, which is exactly what tab targeting does. Is anyone here going to claim DMC is less of an action game than TERA?

    I still haven't seen an open-world MMO with what I'd call action combat. Out of instanced games, Vindictus and C9 come pretty close, but unfortunately they aren't great otherwise.

  • wandericawanderica clayton, NCPosts: 104Member Uncommon

    I enjoy playing both, but from a social gaming perspective, tab target wins hands down.  I can't voice chat with a guild full of people anymore than I can hold six conversations at once in a crowded room.  

    I know the example I'm about to use is, strictly speaking, tab target, but bear with me.  Anyone remember when AoC launched?  It required constant eyes and hands on the computer.  I'd send my buddy a tell and wouldn't get a response until he was out of combat if he was able to respond at all.  Now sure if you were one of those asshats camping the spawn point on the FFA server then you had all the time in the world to type, but otherwise it felt more of a hassle than not.  With a tab target game, I can just veg out and do whatever.  

    I won't say that they require equal skill nor will I say that one requires more than the other.  It's like saying basketball requires more "skill" than Nascar because you have to run fast and jump high in basketball, but anyone can drive a car.  Not gonna beat the dead horse on that argument, but I will say that in most action oriented MMOs the end game encounters tend to be more dynamic, but less strategic at least in my experience.  

    Here's an example:  Love WoW or hate it, it matters little to me, but you can't deny Blizzard's ability to create great dynamic raid encounters.  All of these interesting fights we see, like Instructor in Naxx 60 for example, were possible because everyone's combat mechanic is the same.  Take Neverwinter on the other hand.  Sure dodging separates the bads from the goods in many cases, and that's a mechanic I can really appreciate, but encounters are relatively generic.  I'm not saying brilliant encounters can't be done, but it takes a ton of effort, and most developers take the route of least resistance for balance purposes.

    I'm getting a little off track here.  Action MMOs are the current trend, and I think that's great.  It has a lot going for it, but don't discount the many benefits of a tab target system in your quest to stay on top of the Who's Who List of MMOs.

    image
  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,097Member Uncommon
    Look at the mmos that are coming and see how many have aim combat. /thread
    Raptr Gamercard
  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Manolios
    maybe i m an old school player, but when it comes to mmo's, tab target is my only option

    Same. I want to be able to talk with my guildies in TS while I am doing stuff. I also like to have plenty of skills. Maybe I am an old school player as well :)

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10

    Tab target, if you want any social aspect to the game.

    If you're twitching, you ain't typing, and if you ain't typing, you ain't talking.

     

    There's this wonderful thing called voice chat. You know, actually talking to another human being with your voice. 

  • DoomsDay01DoomsDay01 Charlotte, NCPosts: 780Member Common
    Or

     

    I guess it depends on what the player considers "skills". As you mentioned, they take different types of skill. While tab-targeting has it's decisions to be made (spell choices/ combos, where to stand, who to target, and so on), it just seems to me that active targeting has all of them; plus aiming and moving too. If you can eat a sandwich while in combat in one and not in the other it would seem like the latter would require more "combat" type skills. Eating a sandwich should be more of a crafting time kind of thing. Just my opinion. 

    The issue isnt just about eating food while playing, you actually lose a lot of the social aspects to the game. couple that with fast respawning mobs and you can forget about chatting with the folks.  I dont hate reticule targeting as it can make for interesting fun, I just prefer tab targeting in mmos.

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10

    Tab target, if you want any social aspect to the game.

    If you're twitching, you ain't typing, and if you ain't typing, you ain't talking.

     

    There's this wonderful thing called voice chat. You know, actually talking to another human being with your voice. 

    Not everybody use it. And some people can't. I had a very good friend in guild who was deft. We played a lot together. TS was not an option here.

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • ArakaziArakazi OxfordPosts: 889Member
    Originally posted by Scalpless

    As a fan of various real action games, I've always found MMO "action" a bit ridiculous. People say TERA requires skill because of its reticule-based combat, but how much skill do you need to hit a slow-moving monster that covers half of your screen? Quake 3 requires skill. CS requires skill. TERA's aiming? Please. It's so easy you might as well switch to tab targeting. Besides, many action games, including series like Devil May Cry, let you lock on an enemy, which is exactly what tab targeting does. Is anyone here going to claim DMC is less of an action game than TERA?

    I still haven't seen an open-world MMO with what I'd call action combat. Out of instanced games, Vindictus and C9 come pretty close, but unfortunately they aren't great otherwise.

    I'm with you on that. Timing and accuracy is the bread and butter of action games, most MMO are for the most part strategy based and memory based. But MMOs are so repetitive the strategy is pretty much lost until you come up against a really difficult mob. Of course there is PVP which seems to combine everything.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10

    Tab target, if you want any social aspect to the game.

    If you're twitching, you ain't typing, and if you ain't typing, you ain't talking.

     

    There's this wonderful thing called voice chat. You know, actually talking to another human being with your voice. 

    With voice chat you cant be simultaneously in guild, group, and general chat all at once.  Plus, a lot of people don't  use it for many valid reasons.

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