Open world pvp really caters to a niche market these days. Don't get me wrong, I have really enjoyed world PvP over the years but it has reached the point it seems where most people who play MMOs don't care for it or just prefer more controlled, instanced PvP.
Not sure why you would play this or any themepark for its pvp.
A game like this I will play for the pve experience. If I want pvp I go to a game where pvp has risk and more skill involved than parsing the highest dps skill rotation then macroing it.
not sure why you people still think themepark battlegrounds wWvWVw or whatever and arenas is good pvp. die, respawn, hop back in, no loss no risk...oh but "yay I got to the top of the end of match stats im so good at pvp"...
I dunno, I find softcore pvp boring and more repetitive than farming boars to endgame. Who ever stated that pvp balance always messes up pve is right too...another hated side effect of catering to the vocal softcore pvpers.
I dunno I wish these types of games stuck to what they do best, deliver a linear storyline and pve experience. Just do it well and make it complex and appear less linear than it really is...and with that I hope ESO delivers in this aspect.
PVP? could care less many games out there do pvp far better than any themepark...and you typically don't have to deal with the mouthbreathers who just started mmorpgs being randomly matched on your team and having to pvp with zero teamwork.
I agree, bragging rights, faction buffs and become emperor as long as you sahre your account is nothing to shout home about to be honest. You lose nothing and respawn and jump back in a never ending cycle of no risk fluffy pvp, oh wait Cyrodiil does also have PVE.
An battle ground with fluffy PVP, really and people in this thread are making out it's some sort of skill full hardcore PVP.
Not that it won't be fun for a while but let's not make out it's the best form of PVP.
Pvp like DAOC where the frontiers were huge was great. GW2 "pvp area" is a terrible instanced zergfest. The phasing and instancing already has me worried enough to be cautious with the game and I will not buy it at release.
Originally posted by The1ceQueen Pvp like DAOC where the frontiers were huge was great. GW2 "pvp area" is a terrible instanced zergfest. The phasing and instancing already has me worried enough to be cautious with the game and I will not buy it at release.
^ this, most of these people thinking ava is "less pvp" than say wow pvp servers are basing their experience on gw2, not the games that did it right - daoc & planetside.
Originally posted by ShakyMo ^ this, most of these people thinking ava is "less pvp" than say wow pvp servers are basing their experience on gw2, not the games that did it right - daoc & planetside.
I've played DAOC, Planetside 1-2, hell i've been PVPing since UO so don't assume that everyone is basing their experience off GW2.
Fact is no matter if Matt is involved ESO is not DAOC, anyone thinking that it's going to be a carbon copy of DAOC is delusional.
Originally posted by ShakyMo ^ this, most of these people thinking ava is "less pvp" than say wow pvp servers are basing their experience on gw2, not the games that did it right - daoc & planetside.
I've played DAOC, Planetside 1-2, hell i've been PVPing since UO so don't assume that everyone is basing their experience off GW2.
Fact is no matter if Matt is involved ESO is not DAOC, anyone thinking that it's going to be a carbon copy of DAOC is delusional.
And DAOC wasn't perfect either.
I dont think it will be as good too
but i dont think it will be as gamey as GW2 either, but somewhere inbetween
I definitely think it will be vastly superior pvp wise to wow "pvp" servers
Originally posted by ShakyMo Economy driven ffa pvp is the best pvp model for a sandbox
Rvr is the best model of pvp for a themepark. Real rvr, not gw2s extremely gamey take on it.
I share your boredom with instanced mini game Esports though. Thankfully TESO doesn't have minigames.
Depends on how you design the PvP. And RvR where you could set up your own strongholds in strategical placements to guard certain resources it could be considered sandbox.
It is hard to just claim that "this thing is the best for this scenario" when you are infact only taking a certain game's take on it into consideration.
Since the Elder Scroll games have always been very sandboxy, I would have expected a PVP setup sort of like Eve, which could have been fun. The people who have stated that open world PVP just encourages max level chars ganking low level chars at quest hubs are right, though. There is a certain level of fun by looking over your shoulder and wondering if someone questing in the same area is going to jump you, but it is overshadowed by jerks that think the most fun is one-shotting low level chars with your high level guy. This is only fun to the guys who like to gank lowbies and the guys like me that like to punish those guys by parking my high level char in lowbie zones to bust them out when the gankers show up.
DAoC had it right with a large RVR zone and PVE areas that were separate. You went and PVPed until you got sick of it and then went back to questing. This worked because there were no max-level battlegrounds, the RVR area WAS your max level playground. As soon as you have BGs at max level you dilute the participation and the point of RVR.
That being said, the Eve model on the other end of the spectrum would also work and maybe makes more sense for this particular style game.
Currently playing: Rift Played: SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot World of Warcraft, AoC
I have to agree. PVP zones or arena have no place in a future MMO. It's part of the same old crap that is proven ineffective to the pvp community.
The DAoC model used in ESO for PvP is one well loved and reminisced by many hard core PvP fan. Myself included. They could not have picked a better PvP model IMO. Open world PvP everywhere mostly leads to two things. Players picking on low level chars and camping quest hubs. Or PvP groups spread out so thin you dont get much PvP action. All PvP focused on one big map means more large scale battles and removes the griefers.
So ESO stated that their PvP will be [mod edit]., dedicated PvP area.
I'm done with the sass. No thanks.
This game seems to be more like a medieval SWTOR, anyways.
Yea...thats why I'm not getting it...should have a pvp server and pve server. Problem is, they are trying to cater to both...which will not work as neither side will be happy.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
Originally posted by nerovipus32 Well at least you have made your mind up, so now you can look forward to some other game.
thing is, i always wonder what mmorpg these people go and play once they've announced another mmorpg has failed at pvp once again.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Originally posted by Horusra Glad the OWPvP'ers will be somewhere else.
i like OWpvp very much and will be playing this game at launch. from the sounds of it, cyrodiil sounds like its going to be just like the other pve areas (in size and in content) just with pve enabled and added pvp content.
maybe i am wrong but i am hoping that cryodiil will feel like OWpvp because people will be doing pve content and the danger of ganking will be there.
if anyone is upset that they can't gank a lowbie, they are probably just bad at pvp anyways.
Originally posted by Horusra Glad the OWPvP'ers will be somewhere else.
i like OWpvp very much and will be playing this game at launch. from the sounds of it, cyrodiil sounds like its going to be just like the other pve areas (in size and in content) just with pve enabled and added pvp content.
maybe i am wrong but i am hoping that cryodiil will feel like OWpvp because people will be doing pve content and the danger of ganking will be there.
if anyone is upset that they can't gank a lowbie, they are probably just bad at pvp anyways.
DAoC had some PvE quests (not many but some) in the frontiers and there were also a few good grinding areas for those pesky last couple of levels.
I remember many times being there with just a couple of friends playing cat and mouse with raids of 20 or more on their way to take a keep...great fun running, hiding and occasionally picking off a few stragglers here and there.
Venturing into Cyrodiil to PvE with just a couple of friends will be similar. Except, from what I understand, there will be many more PvE reasons to go there than DAoC ever had. The fact that everyone is bolstered to 50 in Cyrodiil is just gravy that gives similar sized groups a fighting chance. It's open world done right IMHO.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So ESO stated that their PvP will be [mod edit]., dedicated PvP area.
I'm done with the sass. No thanks.
This game seems to be more like a medieval SWTOR, anyways.
Come play Age of Conan, it's one of the most "WoW like" games with world pvp that actually ties in with the environment, unlike so many pvp pre-determined games these days and at least it isn't overly frustrating like say Darkfall, it is just pure vanilla fun. Plus the fatalities are cool.
like eve. I just don't like it where its a token flip a switch, e.g. wow, I much prefer that style of game to have some sort of territory control pvp area, because YOU GET MORE PVP as people have a reason to do it and they all go the same place to do it.
<insert comment about how opvp doesn't work cuz people are so bad at games, all they do is get griefed instead of banding together to stop those pvpers like any sane, talented pvper would do here>
Comments
Open world pvp really caters to a niche market these days. Don't get me wrong, I have really enjoyed world PvP over the years but it has reached the point it seems where most people who play MMOs don't care for it or just prefer more controlled, instanced PvP.
The Enlightened take things Lightly
You can have good pvp in a themepark.
Planetside 2 is a themepark.
It's one of the best mmos for pvp you can play today, along with eve and dfuw.
Rvr is the best model of pvp for a themepark. Real rvr, not gw2s extremely gamey take on it.
I share your boredom with instanced mini game Esports though. Thankfully TESO doesn't have minigames.
I agree, bragging rights, faction buffs and become emperor as long as you sahre your account is nothing to shout home about to be honest. You lose nothing and respawn and jump back in a never ending cycle of no risk fluffy pvp, oh wait Cyrodiil does also have PVE.
An battle ground with fluffy PVP, really and people in this thread are making out it's some sort of skill full hardcore PVP.
Not that it won't be fun for a while but let's not make out it's the best form of PVP.
I'll play the game for PVE not PVP.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
And ESO has plenty of phasing and instancing.
I've played DAOC, Planetside 1-2, hell i've been PVPing since UO so don't assume that everyone is basing their experience off GW2.
Fact is no matter if Matt is involved ESO is not DAOC, anyone thinking that it's going to be a carbon copy of DAOC is delusional.
And DAOC wasn't perfect either.
I dont think it will be as good too
but i dont think it will be as gamey as GW2 either, but somewhere inbetween
I definitely think it will be vastly superior pvp wise to wow "pvp" servers
Depends on how you design the PvP. And RvR where you could set up your own strongholds in strategical placements to guard certain resources it could be considered sandbox.
It is hard to just claim that "this thing is the best for this scenario" when you are infact only taking a certain game's take on it into consideration.
Since the Elder Scroll games have always been very sandboxy, I would have expected a PVP setup sort of like Eve, which could have been fun. The people who have stated that open world PVP just encourages max level chars ganking low level chars at quest hubs are right, though. There is a certain level of fun by looking over your shoulder and wondering if someone questing in the same area is going to jump you, but it is overshadowed by jerks that think the most fun is one-shotting low level chars with your high level guy. This is only fun to the guys who like to gank lowbies and the guys like me that like to punish those guys by parking my high level char in lowbie zones to bust them out when the gankers show up.
DAoC had it right with a large RVR zone and PVE areas that were separate. You went and PVPed until you got sick of it and then went back to questing. This worked because there were no max-level battlegrounds, the RVR area WAS your max level playground. As soon as you have BGs at max level you dilute the participation and the point of RVR.
That being said, the Eve model on the other end of the spectrum would also work and maybe makes more sense for this particular style game.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
Well said
Yea...thats why I'm not getting it...should have a pvp server and pve server. Problem is, they are trying to cater to both...which will not work as neither side will be happy.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
I would not be happy with wow style "pvp" servers AT ALL.
thing is, i always wonder what mmorpg these people go and play once they've announced another mmorpg has failed at pvp once again.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
i like OWpvp very much and will be playing this game at launch. from the sounds of it, cyrodiil sounds like its going to be just like the other pve areas (in size and in content) just with pve enabled and added pvp content.
maybe i am wrong but i am hoping that cryodiil will feel like OWpvp because people will be doing pve content and the danger of ganking will be there.
if anyone is upset that they can't gank a lowbie, they are probably just bad at pvp anyways.
Thanks for your post. I have been sitting around my house for days wondering if you planned on playing ESO or not. Now I can go on with my life.
DAoC had some PvE quests (not many but some) in the frontiers and there were also a few good grinding areas for those pesky last couple of levels.
I remember many times being there with just a couple of friends playing cat and mouse with raids of 20 or more on their way to take a keep...great fun running, hiding and occasionally picking off a few stragglers here and there.
Venturing into Cyrodiil to PvE with just a couple of friends will be similar. Except, from what I understand, there will be many more PvE reasons to go there than DAoC ever had. The fact that everyone is bolstered to 50 in Cyrodiil is just gravy that gives similar sized groups a fighting chance. It's open world done right IMHO.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Come play Age of Conan, it's one of the most "WoW like" games with world pvp that actually ties in with the environment, unlike so many pvp pre-determined games these days and at least it isn't overly frustrating like say Darkfall, it is just pure vanilla fun. Plus the fatalities are cool.
IN GAMES DESIGNED FOR IT
like eve. I just don't like it where its a token flip a switch, e.g. wow, I much prefer that style of game to have some sort of territory control pvp area, because YOU GET MORE PVP as people have a reason to do it and they all go the same place to do it.
<insert comment about how opvp doesn't work cuz people are so bad at games, all they do is get griefed instead of banding together to stop those pvpers like any sane, talented pvper would do here>
#carebearnation