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I wanted to vomit.

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  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ghavrigg
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Adokas
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    If you can't pay $15 a month for a game, you have bigger things to worry about than whether a game is P2P or F2P.

    Has anyone ever said that they can't pay $15/ month?

    Plenty say that. I hear that argument quite often. That it's expensive, etc. And like others are saying, if people have a problem using $15 / 12.99 EUR monthly on a game they have access to 24/7, then perhaps, they have some other issues they should look into fixing. Yet, at the same time, they have no issues going out, dumping a bunch of cash on a one time movie night with popcorn, etc.

    People say that it's expensive, but they don't say they "can't" pay it. Those two statements are incredibly different.

     

    It's really just a value judgment at that point. Many people feel like sub games are overpriced because there are free options that are as good or better than P2P options to them. P2P games just aren't that good to them. What is left anyway? WoW, EVE or Darkfall? If they don't like those games and enjoy MMORPGs, then it would make sense that they would think those games are overpriced. 

     

    Another thing I should mention is that you don't have any clue what people are spending their money on outside of gaming. You can pretend to know based on your own rampant spending on random entertainment, but there are a lot of people that actually respect their money and take care when deciding what to spend it on.

    Ok, then put it another way. If they're saying $15/month is EXPENSIVE, then they still have issues, because it's NOT EXPENSIVE!

    It is if you think the games that are P2P are worse than the games that are F2P.

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 775Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Homitu
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Wow, how are people not understanding what I said?

     

    Seriously, they don't understand that that was the post I quoted?

     

    I don't agree with it, ya idjits.

    Uhhhh, up to the point where you wrote this post, exactly one person misinterpreted your quoted text as your own words.  Everyone else was criticizing YOU for your hyperbolic response to the text you quoted.  Just to be crystal clear, so far, more people have responded in favor of the text you quoted (anti-subscription) than to you (f2p induced nausea syndrome.)  

    To be honest, it was blatantly obvious that the guy was talking about the person he quoted talking about how P2P is dead today, and how $15 a month is too expensive and every MMO should be F2P. More than one person didn't understand what he was objecting to, and only the one person thought the OP actually wrote it. 

    His post here wasn't directed only to the person who thought he wrote what was quoted. 

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 775Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Ghavrigg
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Adokas
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    If you can't pay $15 a month for a game, you have bigger things to worry about than whether a game is P2P or F2P.

    Has anyone ever said that they can't pay $15/ month?

    Plenty say that. I hear that argument quite often. That it's expensive, etc. And like others are saying, if people have a problem using $15 / 12.99 EUR monthly on a game they have access to 24/7, then perhaps, they have some other issues they should look into fixing. Yet, at the same time, they have no issues going out, dumping a bunch of cash on a one time movie night with popcorn, etc.

    People say that it's expensive, but they don't say they "can't" pay it. Those two statements are incredibly different.

     

    It's really just a value judgment at that point. Many people feel like sub games are overpriced because there are free options that are as good or better than P2P options to them. P2P games just aren't that good to them. What is left anyway? WoW, EVE or Darkfall? If they don't like those games and enjoy MMORPGs, then it would make sense that they would think those games are overpriced. 

     

    Another thing I should mention is that you don't have any clue what people are spending their money on outside of gaming. You can pretend to know based on your own rampant spending on random entertainment, but there are a lot of people that actually respect their money and take care when deciding what to spend it on.

    Ok, then put it another way. If they're saying $15/month is EXPENSIVE, then they still have issues, because it's NOT EXPENSIVE!

    It is if you think the games that are P2P are worse than the games that are F2P.

    The only real difference between them is that P2P is for those who want immersion, and not to be constantly nagged about what can be bought in a cash shop. The base games are all generally similar quality (well... maybe not most of the Asian anime clones).

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ghavrigg
    Originally posted by Homitu
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Wow, how are people not understanding what I said?

     

    Seriously, they don't understand that that was the post I quoted?

     

    I don't agree with it, ya idjits.

    Uhhhh, up to the point where you wrote this post, exactly one person misinterpreted your quoted text as your own words.  Everyone else was criticizing YOU for your hyperbolic response to the text you quoted.  Just to be crystal clear, so far, more people have responded in favor of the text you quoted (anti-subscription) than to you (f2p induced nausea syndrome.)  

    To be honest, it was blatantly obvious that the guy was talking about the person he quoted talking about how P2P is dead today, and how $15 a month is too expensive and every MMO should be F2P. More than one person didn't understand what he was objecting to, and only the one person thought the OP actually wrote it. 

    His post here wasn't directed only to the person who thought he wrote what was quoted. 

    If I read your post correctly, that's what Homitu just said.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 775Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Ghavrigg
    Originally posted by Homitu
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Wow, how are people not understanding what I said?

     

    Seriously, they don't understand that that was the post I quoted?

     

    I don't agree with it, ya idjits.

    Uhhhh, up to the point where you wrote this post, exactly one person misinterpreted your quoted text as your own words.  Everyone else was criticizing YOU for your hyperbolic response to the text you quoted.  Just to be crystal clear, so far, more people have responded in favor of the text you quoted (anti-subscription) than to you (f2p induced nausea syndrome.)  

    To be honest, it was blatantly obvious that the guy was talking about the person he quoted talking about how P2P is dead today, and how $15 a month is too expensive and every MMO should be F2P. More than one person didn't understand what he was objecting to, and only the one person thought the OP actually wrote it. 

    His post here wasn't directed only to the person who thought he wrote what was quoted. 

    If I read your post correctly, that's what Homitu just said.

    Well, not exactly. He was talking about everyone criticizing the OP's response to the quote, not that more people seemed to be confused about what part caused the response. Nitpicking, I guess.

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member

    Who gives a shi* ..

     

    I will always and always prefer P2P mmorpg, ALWAYS. And because I am not the only one, p2p mmorpgs will never go away.. FF XIV ARR will stay for more than 10 years p2p (optimistic here), so nothing to worry about + many p2p mmorpgs incoming I hope.

  • RossbossRossboss Runes of Magic, TXPosts: 240Member
    Originally posted by Dogblaster

    Who gives a shi* ..

     

    I will always and always prefer P2P mmorpg, ALWAYS. And because I am not the only one, p2p mmorpgs will never go away.. FF XIV ARR will stay for more than 10 years p2p (optimistic here), so nothing to worry about + many p2p mmorpgs incoming I hope.

    This is funny. You probably could have quoted me saying the same thing for F2P games about a year ago.

    I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
    I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
    I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 775Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rutaq

    So paying for a product you want to use causes you to become physically sick ?  

     How did you manage to even type this melodramatic post ?  

    Is your keyboard vomit proof ?  

    ....   someone had to pay for your computer, someone had to pay for your internet.    If paying for things you want makes you sick then I assume you must still live at home with your parents.

     

      For me the Free to Play model is lame, it just allows a bunch of "entitled" gamers to play a game that someone else is paying for and distracts the DEV's attention as they struggle with ways to monetize the game.  Money / Profit is King so it doesn't take long for an MMO DEV team to be gutted and new content delayed as staff are focused on the next set of Vanity Pets, Costumes and in the end things slip into P2W.

     

    The Free trail /  Subscription model provides consistent predictable revenue and helps the DEVs focus on the most important thing..  the game, not the cash shop.

     The vomiting part was about the guy in the quote being unwilling to pay the $15 a month for the game, and said it and every game should be free. You got it backwards.

  • ScambugScambug TortugaPosts: 389Member
    Originally posted by Mkilbride
     
    Your thoughts?

    I think americans are obsessed with money. If I were new to MMOs and came to this site I'd get the impression that the business model was the most important feature of any game.

    Yeah, this whole fucking hysteria over pricing makes me vomit too.

    Sorry for the language, I've been watching Deadwood lately as I AFK harvest in Darkfall......

  • JRRNeiklotJRRNeiklot Decatur, ALPosts: 108Member
    Cash shops and FTP is the best way in the world to get me to not play your game.  I don't mind paying for a product, but I refuse to be nickel and dimed to death.  FTP isn't.
  • AdokasAdokas KristiansandPosts: 217Member
    Originally posted by Pie_Rat
    Originally posted by Mkilbride
     
    Your thoughts?

    I think people are obsessed with money. If I were new to MMOs and came to this site I'd get the impression that the business model was the most important feature of any game.

    Yeah, this whole fucking hysteria over pricing makes me vomit too.

    Sorry for the language, I've been watching Deadwood lately as I AFK harvest in Darkfall......

    There you go. Fixed :o

  • RhinotonesRhinotones BenowaPosts: 238Member Uncommon

    Everyone's entitled to their opinion. As much as people agree/disagree with it, it's not really worth getting upset about particularly over such a common and divisive subject.

    For me personally if the game is decent enough I will happily fork out a $15/month sub fee. Heck that barely pays for a decent meal in itself. So I say unto you, try not to vomit, use that $15 to go towards your gaming habits rather than replacing a good meal and enjoy gaming. 

    image
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

     

     

    _____________________________________________________

    The Deal Breaker
    This is a message mostly towards the devs, but also a statement for my fellow gamers. I've seen bits of Darkfall for quite a few years now. I originally lost interest during my highschool years when everything else in life bogged down on me. Seeing it on steam, I was excited and even pondering whether or not to purchase it like I always wanted to. Then I saw the business model...

    That death sentence for any mmo in 2013; $15 a month. Can you even fathom how utterly dissapointed I was? I've seen gameplay videos of this game; they look interesting! Fun! Good! I really, REALLY wanted to play this game soooo badly. $40? Sure! I don't mind paying a good lump of cash for an mmo. Pay once to play forever mmos are by far my favorite; unfortunately that wasn't the case here.

    I still considered buying the game for awhile, but eventually came to the conclusion that in doing so, I was making a statement not just to the devs of this game, but all devs for any mmo, that subscription fees are acceptable. They're not. Cash shops; expansion packs; things like that are more than welcomed. But blatant subscription fees are a thing of the past. An ugly archaic practice that can not compete with other business practices these days. Something I have to vote 'no' at with my wallet :/

    It's the deal breaker for me, and I'm sorry to see it happen to what looked like a really good game. I hope those of you playing this game are enjoying it thoroughly for that extra $15 a month. As for the rest of you considering whether or not to purchase this game, take into consideration what paying may mean for the rest of the gaming community. What will those added votes, your payments, do to influence the industry later on? Are you alright with the return of the subscription era? Do you wan't to motivate developers and publishers to find compromise in better business models that don't tax players? Think long and hard about this before you hit that 'purchase' button.

    Best of wishes.
     
    __________________________________________________
     
     

    I totally agree with this post. Sub fees are no longer acceptable.

    That is why i cancelled WOW and probably play a sub game anyway. There are F2P alternatives that are as much fun.

    Thank you for posting a very well thought out, very nicely argued letter. I vote "no" with this guy.

  • nakumanakuma New York City, NYPosts: 1,310Member

    Having played MMO's since late 90's and as well as played multiple F2P MMO's and sub turned F2P (death sentence for most games)

     

    For those who adore F2P (aka Pay to Win )and think they actually pay less than a Sub based game, Here is an old saying " A fool and his money are soon parted".

     

    Now, if you prefer a F2P game fine, but don't try to filter in misinformation that F2P are cheaper than a Sub based game. I have played multiple and done my diligence on multiple games (most recently being NWN mmo, and numerous other MMO's that vary from american based F2P to korean F2P e.g. runes of magic, SOTNW, etc) and holy crap you you can far exceed money spent on a $50 base fee game + $15 a month well under a month if your not careful. Between vanity pets, numerous "lock boxes" various special items, premium upgrades etc (NWN being a major offender with the nightmare box ). anyhoo, I think a lot of young players need to realize two things when picking a game. A) Realize you are going to be spending money either up front or later! unless you want to grind the hell out of a game for months on end, but Frankly I do not know anyone in their right mind would "enjoy" that. or B) get a decent paying job so you can support your habit/entertainment of gaming. If not, stop complaining about cost and damn sure stop spreading misinformation that F2P games are cheaper than Sub based P2P games. If you think they won't nickel and dime the hell out of you, you are sorely mistaken.  So if you are going to play F2P 2 options here, keep your credit card handy or be content with grinding the hell out the game to keep up with other premium players ($15 option) or P2W players.

     

    I for one play only sub based games. F2P while fun inititally (depending on the quality) I find out the game is far from free in the sense that to truly experience them smoothly and comfortably you have to dole out some money. where as SUb based I pay entry fee $50 usually if its a new release + $15 per month. BUt also realize I have a decent job, I will gladly pay $15 per month if the game is good quality and has a good amount of content. F2P you get to experience only part of the game the rest you have to spend money that can often exceed the amount you pay for a sub game.

    3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Khorrax
     Both you and the guy you quoted are a bit melodramatic, but he has a point. Subscriptions are a thing of the past, and I think it's a good thing. I'm a fan of the 'buy to play' model, since I started with Guild Wars, but 'free to play' allowed me to play games I would have otherwise not tried. I'm not picky, as long as the business model is fair.

    Took words (word?) right outta my mouth  

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by nakuma

     

     

    For those who adore F2P (aka Pay to Win )and think they actually pay less than a Sub based game, Here is an old saying " A fool and his money are soon parted".

     

    Now, if you prefer a F2P game fine, but don't try to filter in misinformation that F2P are cheaper than a Sub based game.

    What misinformation? Fact, i have played F2P games for years and so far i have spent exactly zero amount of money on them.

    So where is this "money soon parted" part? Old sayings are not always correct. I don't "think" i pay less than a sub game. I am paying less than a sub game. In fact, i pay exactly zero.

     

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by nakuma

    Having played MMO's since late 90's and as well as played multiple F2P MMO's and sub turned F2P (death sentence for most games)

     

    For those who adore F2P (aka Pay to Win )and think they actually pay less than a Sub based game, Here is an old saying " A fool and his money are soon parted".

     

    Now, if you prefer a F2P game fine, but don't try to filter in misinformation that F2P are cheaper than a Sub based game. I have played multiple and done my diligence on multiple games (most recently being NWN mmo, and numerous other MMO's that vary from american based F2P to korean F2P e.g. runes of magic, SOTNW, etc) and holy crap you you can far exceed money spent on a $50 base fee game + $15 a month well under a month if your not careful. Between vanity pets, numerous "lock boxes" various special items, premium upgrades etc (NWN being a major offender with the nightmare box ). anyhoo, I think a lot of young players need to realize two things when picking a game. A) Realize you are going to be spending money either up front or later! unless you want to grind the hell out of a game for months on end, but Frankly I do not know anyone in their right mind would "enjoy" that. or B) get a decent paying job so you can support your habit/entertainment of gaming. If not, stop complaining about cost and damn sure stop spreading misinformation that F2P games are cheaper than Sub based P2P games. If you think they won't nickel and dime the hell out of you, you are sorely mistaken.  So if you are going to play F2P 2 options here, keep your credit card handy or be content with grinding the hell out the game to keep up with other premium players ($15 option) or P2W players.

     

    I for one play only sub based games. F2P while fun inititally (depending on the quality) I find out the game is far from free in the sense that to truly experience them smoothly and comfortably you have to dole out some money. where as SUb based I pay entry fee $50 usually if its a new release + $15 per month. BUt also realize I have a decent job, I will gladly pay $15 per month if the game is good quality and has a good amount of content. F2P you get to experience only part of the game the rest you have to spend money that can often exceed the amount you pay for a sub game.

    I have played every F2P MMO on market extensively and haven't spent a dime on cash shop. Although sometimes i do buy some currency for as low as 10 bucks to show my support for devs for many many hours of fun. That is only fair considering devs need to make money to feed their families.

    But please continue to assume that all those who adore F2P MMOS are some kind of fools who don't know how to manage their money.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • ferndipferndip santa rosa, CAPosts: 66Member

    I still find $15 a month for a game I enjoy playing a much better entertainment bargain than,

     

    A ticket + snacks to any Hollywood movie at the theater right now

    the mediocre lunch I just paid $15 for,

    anything on cable TV, which cost ALOT more than $15 a month,

    the 2 drinks my wife had with dinner at the sushi place last night = more than $15,

    Boat launch fees at the near by lake = $15,

    paying for the 24 hour porn channel while staying in a hotel,

    Paying $60 for an Xbox game and then having to buy the "season pass" for another $10-$15

    and so on & so on....

     

    All you can do is vote with your dollars, I don't give my moneys to Darkfall as I am not impressed with their product.

     

     

     

     

  • f0dell54f0dell54 Des Moines, IAPosts: 329Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by nakuma

    Having played MMO's since late 90's and as well as played multiple F2P MMO's and sub turned F2P (death sentence for most games)

     

    For those who adore F2P (aka Pay to Win )and think they actually pay less than a Sub based game, Here is an old saying " A fool and his money are soon parted".

     

    Now, if you prefer a F2P game fine, but don't try to filter in misinformation that F2P are cheaper than a Sub based game. I have played multiple and done my diligence on multiple games (most recently being NWN mmo, and numerous other MMO's that vary from american based F2P to korean F2P e.g. runes of magic, SOTNW, etc) and holy crap you you can far exceed money spent on a $50 base fee game + $15 a month well under a month if your not careful. Between vanity pets, numerous "lock boxes" various special items, premium upgrades etc (NWN being a major offender with the nightmare box ). anyhoo, I think a lot of young players need to realize two things when picking a game. A) Realize you are going to be spending money either up front or later! unless you want to grind the hell out of a game for months on end, but Frankly I do not know anyone in their right mind would "enjoy" that. or B) get a decent paying job so you can support your habit/entertainment of gaming. If not, stop complaining about cost and damn sure stop spreading misinformation that F2P games are cheaper than Sub based P2P games. If you think they won't nickel and dime the hell out of you, you are sorely mistaken.  So if you are going to play F2P 2 options here, keep your credit card handy or be content with grinding the hell out the game to keep up with other premium players ($15 option) or P2W players.

     

    I for one play only sub based games. F2P while fun inititally (depending on the quality) I find out the game is far from free in the sense that to truly experience them smoothly and comfortably you have to dole out some money. where as SUb based I pay entry fee $50 usually if its a new release + $15 per month. BUt also realize I have a decent job, I will gladly pay $15 per month if the game is good quality and has a good amount of content. F2P you get to experience only part of the game the rest you have to spend money that can often exceed the amount you pay for a sub game.

    I have played every F2P MMO on market extensively and haven't spent a dime on cash shop. Although sometimes i do buy some currency for as low as 10 bucks to show my support for devs for many many hours of fun. That is only fair considering devs need to make money to feed their families.

    But please continue to assume that all those who adore F2P MMOS are some kind of fools who don't know how to manage their money.

    I think it's cute when people over exaggerate to try to prove a point.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by Khorrax
     Both you and the guy you quoted are a bit melodramatic, but he has a point. Subscriptions are a thing of the past, and I think it's a good thing. I'm a fan of the 'buy to play' model, since I started with Guild Wars, but 'free to play' allowed me to play games I would have otherwise not tried. I'm not picky, as long as the business model is fair.

    Purely B2P games that are not one off sales (FPS games etc.) will always be rare. B2P with a shop that has items which improve characters will be more common.

     

     

    Subscriptions will never be gone and the percentage of the sector that different payment options make up will ebb and flow. The F2P movement in the west had a lot of lucky timing on itself to propel it to the front very quickly in MMOs, the economy crashed and people needed to cut back spending.

     

    However, there will always be fans of both sides as well as people who will waffle back and forth. There will be people who play a bunch of F2P games, but get tired of having to continually buy things and they will switch back to P2P games. Then they will tire of paying for things they aren't getting enough play out of and will switch back to F2P games for a while.

     

     

    The mistake people are making is thinking their preferred method has to "win". People who insist that all games need to be F2P or all games need to be subscription. There are millions upon millions of gamers in the world, each can have their own preferences. Just as people get subscription based cell phones and pay as you go phones.

     

    The big thing is that the western MMO market is struggling. People like to point out the studies that say there are more western MMO gamers than before, but there are far more games as well. Many companies acknowledge the west is a rough sell for MMOs. Because of this companies are trying everything to stay in business, changing models, rereleasing games, trying all different store setups.

     

    This is causing people to point out how "different models don't work" or "that type of payment model leads to crappy games" etc. Really we are just seeing an industry in crisis trying everything under the sun to survive. That's why you don't see so many changes in pricing models in the FPS genre for example, it is a stable genre that is being well accepted and creating great profits. Once the western MMO sector finds a new stable equilibrium you will continue to see subs/f2p options (even most f2p still has a sub option anyway).

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by ferndip

    I still find $15 a month for a game I enjoy playing a much better entertainment bargain than,

     

     

    And i find $15 a month for any game a much worse entertainment bargain than,

    when i can have the same amount of fun for free.

     

  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ferndip

    I still find $15 a month for a game I enjoy playing a much better entertainment bargain than,

     

     

    And i find $15 a month for any game a much worse entertainment bargain than,

    when i can have the same amount of fun for free.

     

    That's because your a tire kicker, tire kickers love F2P games.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    There are research out there that states f2p players pay less overall compared to p2p. Mmos get more f2p players to cover that gap.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by jpnz
    There are research out there that states f2p players pay less overall compared to p2p. Mmos get more f2p players to cover that gap.

    And research shows that f2p players outnumbered p2p ones 6 to 1 in the US. Hence in the US, f2p is making as much (or more by now) money than p2p.

     

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,757Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by jpnz
    There are research out there that states f2p players pay less overall compared to p2p. Mmos get more f2p players to cover that gap.

    And research shows that f2p players outnumbered p2p ones 6 to 1 in the US. Hence in the US, f2p is making as much (or more by now) money than p2p.

     

    Here he goes again! OK lets say they are making more money as you seem to get of on that so much. Where is that money going? Because it does not seem to be going back into the MMO product as much as it does in new content for P2P MMO's.

    If all this extra money F2P MMO's are making is just going into investors pockets why should we care that they are making more money? As a player, if it is not being invested back into the game making big bucks is meaningless.

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