yes (technically its 3 and its WvWvW, but essentially that is what it is)
yes
no
8 yeses, 5 nos. Yep, that's the majority.
So you are saying GW2 has these:
End game and a end game focus.
Raids.
Healers and Tanks yet no Trinity.
Gear progression in PvP and PvE.
Enemy factions
Dueling.
You either haven't played GW2, haven't listed to the devs of the game or are thinking of another game.
GW2 has always stated it has no end game focus, in fact it has no end game.
If you think those outdoor bosses are "raids", especially GW2's outdoor bosses. I can assure you, you haven't raided in your life.
You can't tank in GW2 due to the aggro mechanic. It is not possible. You can get around and heal but that is pushing the definition of healing.
GW2 has no gear progression in PvP and PvE. Are they going to introduce a tier with higher stats anytime soon? I can't list numerous quotes from the lead game designer of GW2 that they won't have gear progression.
Servers are not enemy factions of factions themselves. That is not how it works.
Dueling was an example of a game feature. But you can't duel in GW2 and you now it.
As I said, if you can compare GW2 to WildStar you can compare WildStar to any MMO in history including Eve. Because you really have to stretch the facts to compare the two.
The are polar opposites of each other. In almost every way possible. Combat mechanics are the only thing that is similar.
Quite the opposite really, I have played ENOUGH og GW2 to recognize each thing for what it is.
GW2 has no end game focus? Please, tell me more about how while several dungeons and areas as of late aren't designed for end game players and show this by forcing everyone playing them to be lv 80 and bump up players who aren't.
Yes, it is a bit of a stretch, but it is a raid. 80 players fighting off wave after wave of enemies, making sure x happens to make the final boss appear, and then fighting off a final boss that gives epic phat lewt? Basic definition of a raid right there, no? Sure, people can drop out and join in at any time, but lets face facts, can you honestly say that people's schedules have never gotten in the way of a raid in a way that forced them to drop out part way through? This my friend is an improvement on the raid system: fighting enemies and fulfilling quest objectives that require far more than the standard 5 man group, yet recognizing that not everyone's schedule can allow them to take part in a "traditional WoW raid".
Um, yes you can. The point of tanking in GW2 is not aggro management, but movement restriction. Pushbacks, knockdowns, roots, stuns, slows, and setting up impenetrable barriers; that's how you tank in GW2. If it keeps enemies off the healers and glass cannons, its tanking. Just because it is a different form of tanking that requires more concentration than other MMOs, doesn't mean it isn't tanking.
Yes they do have gear progression in PvE. You have basic, to fine, to masterwork, to rare, to exotic/ascended, to legendary (legendary doesn't have better stats, but better visuals, but that is still a form of gear progression). As for PvP, it is gear progression of a different variety. It's not gear progression in what you can equip, but siege weapons you use to take down your enemies. Also, they have just introduced ascended PvP gear and upgradable PvP only skills like guard killer. Oh, and there is a form of PvP gear progression that can be done by spending glory.
Um, yes they are. Not all factions are orcs vs. humans. Sometimes it is humans vs. humans (in fact, I believe this reflects the faction vs. faction combat represented in GW1 lore, back when it was the 3 guilds of humans who fought eachother; the Krytans vs. the Ascalonians vs. the Orrians.)
Yes you can duel in GW2. You can't duel anywhere you want and must enter the PvP only area of the Mists, but you can still duel. There is a difference between a lack of traditional dueling and a lack of dueling alltogether.
You don't need to stretch the definition of any of these terms (save for raid) to see how similar they are.
$5 says that for all the people singing the praises of Wildstar now, double that will complain and whine about it when it is released and claim it is nothing but a "clone of x" and other stuff like that, just like how people sang the praises of GW2 before its release but so many people (including you) have jumped onto the GW2 sucks bandwagon and give questionable reasons. I have yet to see a reason that does not fall into the following categories:
A given reason why GW2 sucks is not a reason why it sucks but why it is not for person x, yet person x can't tell the difference between a game not being for them and a game sucking.
A given reason why GW2 sucks is an exaggeration and does not reflect the game or is made up.
All of your "reasons why GW2 sucks and is worse than Wildstar" fall into these categories.
All of your "reasons why GW2 sucks and is worse than Wildstar" fall into these categories.
You, you can discussion it till the cows come home and even go against what ANet devs themselves say. But WildStar and GW2 are polar opposites in terms of core game design elements. From end game design, to the trinity, to progression.
WoW, Rift, Tera are significantly closer to WildStar than GW2 will ever be.
WildStar is basically a improved version of WoW. Which is a great thing and nothing to shy away from since lead WoW devs made WildStar. But we shouldn't tarnish WildStar by comparing it to GW2.
I have never in my life sang praises of GW2, it is a subpar & lazy game and always was. WildStar on the other hand doesn't look subpar or lazy.
Quite the opposite really, I have played ENOUGH og GW2 to recognize each thing for what it is.
GW2 has no end game focus? Please, tell me more about how while several dungeons and areas as of late aren't designed for end game players and show this by forcing everyone playing them to be lv 80 and bump up players who aren't.
Really? I didn't know that gw2 dungeons are so freaking hard and require brain and to be lvl 80. My bad.
Yes, it is a bit of a stretch, but it is a raid. 80 players fighting off wave after wave of enemies, making sure x happens to make the final boss appear, and then fighting off a final boss that gives epic phat lewt? Basic definition of a raid right there, no? Sure, people can drop out and join in at any time, but lets face facts, can you honestly say that people's schedules have never gotten in the way of a raid in a way that forced them to drop out part way through? This my friend is an improvement on the raid system: fighting enemies and fulfilling quest objectives that require far more than the standard 5 man group, yet recognizing that not everyone's schedule can allow them to take part in a "traditional WoW raid".
I must ROFL here. Trying to not be offender, but those GW2 "raids" are made like for people which IQ is not so higher. Every raid in GW2 can be done by spamming keyboard button "1". Heck, even simple trash mobs in Wow raids have much more abilities to wipe even experienced players, much more than any "raid" boss in GW2.
Um, yes you can. The point of tanking in GW2 is not aggro management, but movement restriction. Pushbacks, knockdowns, roots, stuns, slows, and setting up impenetrable barriers; that's how you tank in GW2. If it keeps enemies off the healers and glass cannons, its tanking. Just because it is a different form of tanking that requires more concentration than other MMOs, doesn't mean it isn't tanking.
No comment.
Yes they do have gear progression in PvE. You have basic, to fine, to masterwork, to rare, to exotic/ascended, to legendary (legendary doesn't have better stats, but better visuals, but that is still a form of gear progression). As for PvP, it is gear progression of a different variety. It's not gear progression in what you can equip, but siege weapons you use to take down your enemies. Also, they have just introduced ascended PvP gear and upgradable PvP only skills like guard killer. Oh, and there is a form of PvP gear progression that can be done by spending glory.
Again, no comment.
Um, yes they are. Not all factions are orcs vs. humans. Sometimes it is humans vs. humans (in fact, I believe this reflects the faction vs. faction combat represented in GW1 lore, back when it was the 3 guilds of humans who fought eachother; the Krytans vs. the Ascalonians vs. the Orrians.)
Where??? In books???
Yes you can duel in GW2. You can't duel anywhere you want and must enter the PvP only area of the Mists, but you can still duel. There is a difference between a lack of traditional dueling and a lack of dueling alltogether.
I'm too lazy to search room of 400 with 0 players, even If I enter, need to pray that someone won't interupt me.
You don't need to stretch the definition of any of these terms (save for raid) to see how similar they are.
$5 says that for all the people singing the praises of Wildstar now, double that will complain and whine about it when it is released and claim it is nothing but a "clone of x" and other stuff like that, just like how people sang the praises of GW2 before its release but so many people (including you) have jumped onto the GW2 sucks bandwagon and give questionable reasons. I have yet to see a reason that does not fall into the following categories:
A given reason why GW2 sucks is not a reason why it sucks but why it is not for person x, yet person x can't tell the difference between a game not being for them and a game sucking.
A given reason why GW2 sucks is an exaggeration and does not reflect the game or is made up.
All of your "reasons why GW2 sucks and is worse than Wildstar" fall into these categories.
yes (technically its 3 and its WvWvW, but essentially that is what it is)
yes
no
8 yeses, 5 nos. Yep, that's the majority.
So you are saying GW2 has these:
End game and a end game focus.
Raids.
Healers and Tanks yet no Trinity.
Gear progression in PvP and PvE.
Enemy factions
Dueling.
You either haven't played GW2, haven't listed to the devs of the game or are thinking of another game.
GW2 has always stated it has no end game focus, in fact it has no end game.
If you think those outdoor bosses are "raids", especially GW2's outdoor bosses. I can assure you, you haven't raided in your life.
You can't tank in GW2 due to the aggro mechanic. It is not possible. You can get around and heal but that is pushing the definition of healing.
GW2 has no gear progression in PvP and PvE. Are they going to introduce a tier with higher stats anytime soon? I can't list numerous quotes from the lead game designer of GW2 that they won't have gear progression.
Servers are not enemy factions of factions themselves. That is not how it works.
Dueling was an example of a game feature. But you can't duel in GW2 and you now it.
As I said, if you can compare GW2 to WildStar you can compare WildStar to any MMO in history including Eve. Because you really have to stretch the facts to compare the two.
The are polar opposites of each other. In almost every way possible. Combat mechanics are the only thing that is similar.
Quite the opposite really, I have played ENOUGH og GW2 to recognize each thing for what it is.
GW2 has no end game focus? Please, tell me more about how while several dungeons and areas as of late aren't designed for end game players and show this by forcing everyone playing them to be lv 80 and bump up players who aren't.
Yes, it is a bit of a stretch, but it is a raid. 80 players fighting off wave after wave of enemies, making sure x happens to make the final boss appear, and then fighting off a final boss that gives epic phat lewt? Basic definition of a raid right there, no? Sure, people can drop out and join in at any time, but lets face facts, can you honestly say that people's schedules have never gotten in the way of a raid in a way that forced them to drop out part way through? This my friend is an improvement on the raid system: fighting enemies and fulfilling quest objectives that require far more than the standard 5 man group, yet recognizing that not everyone's schedule can allow them to take part in a "traditional WoW raid". Still not a raid in any form.
Um, yes you can. The point of tanking in GW2 is not aggro management, but movement restriction. Pushbacks, knockdowns, roots, stuns, slows, and setting up impenetrable barriers; that's how you tank in GW2. If it keeps enemies off the healers and glass cannons, its tanking. Just because it is a different form of tanking that requires more concentration than other MMOs, doesn't mean it isn't tanking. It really isn't tanking and nearly every encounter can be accomplished without using this mechanic.
Yes they do have gear progression in PvE. You have basic, to fine, to masterwork, to rare, to exotic/ascended, to legendary (legendary doesn't have better stats, but better visuals, but that is still a form of gear progression). As for PvP, it is gear progression of a different variety. It's not gear progression in what you can equip, but siege weapons you use to take down your enemies. Also, they have just introduced ascended PvP gear and upgradable PvP only skills like guard killer. Oh, and there is a form of PvP gear progression that can be done by spending glory. Gear progression stops at a point. There is also no indication of it continuing due to Arenanet's philosophy. Horizontal progression is not really a term. To progress indicates forward movement..literally forward or onward movement. Even if you consider looks forward movement, when I have the look I want, where is the progression after that?
Um, yes they are. Not all factions are orcs vs. humans. Sometimes it is humans vs. humans (in fact, I believe this reflects the faction vs. faction combat represented in GW1 lore, back when it was the 3 guilds of humans who fought eachother; the Krytans vs. the Ascalonians vs. the Orrians.) The PVP in GW2 is not really faction based. It is server based. It really doesn't have an overwhelming effect on the world I play on. Just some minor bonuses that are for the most point insignificant. Wildstar PVP is going to be OWPVP and is based on two factions... (not three which is completely different). It couldn't be any farther from GW2 PvP.
Yes you can duel in GW2. You can't duel anywhere you want and must enter the PvP only area of the Mists, but you can still duel. There is a difference between a lack of traditional dueling and a lack of dueling alltogether.
You don't need to stretch the definition of any of these terms (save for raid) to see how similar they are.
$5 says that for all the people singing the praises of Wildstar now, double that will complain and whine about it when it is released and claim it is nothing but a "clone of x" and other stuff like that, just like how people sang the praises of GW2 before its release but so many people (including you) have jumped onto the GW2 sucks bandwagon and give questionable reasons. I have yet to see a reason that does not fall into the following categories:
A given reason why GW2 sucks is not a reason why it sucks but why it is not for person x, yet person x can't tell the difference between a game not being for them and a game sucking. You make no sense here. If a person doesn't like something, then it "sucks" to them. Yes a game not being for them would mean that it "sucks" to them.
A given reason why GW2 sucks is an exaggeration and does not reflect the game or is made up. The same could be said about a lot of the fanbois statements or even the way you stretched things with your justifications above..... Pot meet Kettle......
All of your "reasons why GW2 sucks and is worse than Wildstar" fall into these categories.
Your arguments are a whole lot of fail. You are arguing semantics and stretching the definitions of pretty much everything. The point that SoMuchMass was making in that gameplay and mechanics are completely different holds true.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
yes (technically its 3 and its WvWvW, but essentially that is what it is)
yes
no
8 yeses, 5 nos. Yep, that's the majority.
So you are saying GW2 has these:
End game and a end game focus.
Raids.
Healers and Tanks yet no Trinity.
Gear progression in PvP and PvE.
Enemy factions
Dueling.
You either haven't played GW2, haven't listed to the devs of the game or are thinking of another game.
GW2 has always stated it has no end game focus, in fact it has no end game.
If you think those outdoor bosses are "raids", especially GW2's outdoor bosses. I can assure you, you haven't raided in your life.
You can't tank in GW2 due to the aggro mechanic. It is not possible. You can get around and heal but that is pushing the definition of healing.
GW2 has no gear progression in PvP and PvE. Are they going to introduce a tier with higher stats anytime soon? I can't list numerous quotes from the lead game designer of GW2 that they won't have gear progression.
Servers are not enemy factions of factions themselves. That is not how it works.
Dueling was an example of a game feature. But you can't duel in GW2 and you now it.
As I said, if you can compare GW2 to WildStar you can compare WildStar to any MMO in history including Eve. Because you really have to stretch the facts to compare the two.
The are polar opposites of each other. In almost every way possible. Combat mechanics are the only thing that is similar.
Quite the opposite really, I have played ENOUGH og GW2 to recognize each thing for what it is.
GW2 has no end game focus? Please, tell me more about how while several dungeons and areas as of late aren't designed for end game players and show this by forcing everyone playing them to be lv 80 and bump up players who aren't.
Yes, it is a bit of a stretch, but it is a raid. 80 players fighting off wave after wave of enemies, making sure x happens to make the final boss appear, and then fighting off a final boss that gives epic phat lewt? Basic definition of a raid right there, no? Sure, people can drop out and join in at any time, but lets face facts, can you honestly say that people's schedules have never gotten in the way of a raid in a way that forced them to drop out part way through? This my friend is an improvement on the raid system: fighting enemies and fulfilling quest objectives that require far more than the standard 5 man group, yet recognizing that not everyone's schedule can allow them to take part in a "traditional WoW raid". Still not a raid in any form.
Um, yes you can. The point of tanking in GW2 is not aggro management, but movement restriction. Pushbacks, knockdowns, roots, stuns, slows, and setting up impenetrable barriers; that's how you tank in GW2. If it keeps enemies off the healers and glass cannons, its tanking. Just because it is a different form of tanking that requires more concentration than other MMOs, doesn't mean it isn't tanking. It really isn't tanking and nearly every encounter can be accomplished without using this mechanic.
Yes they do have gear progression in PvE. You have basic, to fine, to masterwork, to rare, to exotic/ascended, to legendary (legendary doesn't have better stats, but better visuals, but that is still a form of gear progression). As for PvP, it is gear progression of a different variety. It's not gear progression in what you can equip, but siege weapons you use to take down your enemies. Also, they have just introduced ascended PvP gear and upgradable PvP only skills like guard killer. Oh, and there is a form of PvP gear progression that can be done by spending glory. Gear progression stops at a point. There is also no indication of it continuing due to Arenanet's philosophy. Horizontal progression is not really a term. To progress indicates forward movement..literally forward or onward movement. Even if you consider looks forward movement, when I have the look I want, where is the progression after that?
Um, yes they are. Not all factions are orcs vs. humans. Sometimes it is humans vs. humans (in fact, I believe this reflects the faction vs. faction combat represented in GW1 lore, back when it was the 3 guilds of humans who fought eachother; the Krytans vs. the Ascalonians vs. the Orrians.) The PVP in GW2 is not really faction based. It is server based. It really doesn't have an overwhelming effect on the world I play on. Just some minor bonuses that are for the most point insignificant. Wildstar PVP is going to be OWPVP and is based on two factions... (not three which is completely different). It couldn't be any farther from GW2 PvP.
Yes you can duel in GW2. You can't duel anywhere you want and must enter the PvP only area of the Mists, but you can still duel. There is a difference between a lack of traditional dueling and a lack of dueling alltogether.
You don't need to stretch the definition of any of these terms (save for raid) to see how similar they are.
$5 says that for all the people singing the praises of Wildstar now, double that will complain and whine about it when it is released and claim it is nothing but a "clone of x" and other stuff like that, just like how people sang the praises of GW2 before its release but so many people (including you) have jumped onto the GW2 sucks bandwagon and give questionable reasons. I have yet to see a reason that does not fall into the following categories:
A given reason why GW2 sucks is not a reason why it sucks but why it is not for person x, yet person x can't tell the difference between a game not being for them and a game sucking. You make no sense here. If a person doesn't like something, then it "sucks" to them. Yes a game not being for them would mean that it "sucks" to them.
A given reason why GW2 sucks is an exaggeration and does not reflect the game or is made up. The same could be said about a lot of the fanbois statements or even the way you stretched things with your justifications above..... Pot meet Kettle......
All of your "reasons why GW2 sucks and is worse than Wildstar" fall into these categories.
Your arguments are a whole lot of fail. You are arguing semantics and stretching the definitions of pretty much everything. The point that SoMuchMass was making in that gameplay and mechanics are completely different holds true.
He isn't arguing that gameplay and mechanics are different, but that they are superior because of all the things that in reality aren't necessary for an MMO. I mean, he included something as pointless as mounts in his argument. That right there should be proof enough of this. Since when did mounts become a "core game mechanic"? Never, but he is arguing that it is, and that since Wildstar includes them and GW2 does not, Wildstar will be superior (he goes on and on about these things). His argument revolves around "Wildstar includes game feature x that isn't necessary to make a great MMO but is still common in them and since GW2 does not Wildstar is superior". Also most of the things that he thinks are missing in GW2 are in fact present in GW2, but dressed up to make them look different (e.g. gear progression, tanking, faction vs. faction PvP/dueling, etc.) The rest are things that are not necessary for MMOs but have become so common that most people believe that they are (e.g. mounts, trinity, etc.).
Also, there is a huge difference between not liking an aspect of a game and a game actually sucking. Take TSW for instance. I can't get my head around the combat, but I know enough about it to see that it can work and that TSW does not suck. It is a great game with excellent monster designs, perfect atmosphere, and a story that might as well be tweaked and written into a Lovecraft-inspired book. Personal opinion about games and thinking that they suck doesn't make it so. I learned this from playing Mass Effect (first time I played it I died a lot during the first mission and thought the game sucked because of this, but a few years later I picked it up again, found that I played it wrong the first time, and saw that it was a great game). If you feel that a game sucks because it doesn't have x, fine, say that the game isn't for you because it lacks x, but don't say that the game sucks because it lacks x, because odds are you are letting the lack of x get in the way of seeing how good the game is (it is this "I think game y sucks because I don't like it" attitude is really starting to annoy me and make me lose faith in the gaming community).
He isn't arguing that gameplay and mechanics are different, but that they are superior because of all the things that in reality aren't necessary for an MMO. I mean, he included something as pointless as mounts in his argument. That right there should be proof enough of this. Since when did mounts become a "core game mechanic"? Never, but he is arguing that it is, and that since Wildstar includes them and GW2 does not, Wildstar will be superior (he goes on and on about these things). His argument revolves around "Wildstar includes game feature x that isn't necessary to make a great MMO but is still common in them and since GW2 does not Wildstar is superior". Also most of the things that he thinks are missing in GW2 are in fact present in GW2, but dressed up to make them look different (e.g. gear progression, tanking, faction vs. faction PvP/dueling, etc.) The rest are things that are not necessary for MMOs but have become so common that most people believe that they are (e.g. mounts, trinity, etc.).
Also, there is a huge difference between not liking an aspect of a game and a game actually sucking. Take TSW for instance. I can't get my head around the combat, but I know enough about it to see that it can work and that TSW does not suck. It is a great game with excellent monster designs, perfect atmosphere, and a story that might as well be tweaked and written into a Lovecraft-inspired book. Personal opinion about games and thinking that they suck doesn't make it so. I learned this from playing Mass Effect (first time I played it I died a lot during the first mission and thought the game sucked because of this, but a few years later I picked it up again, found that I played it wrong the first time, and saw that it was a great game). If you feel that a game sucks because it doesn't have x, fine, say that the game isn't for you because it lacks x, but don't say that the game sucks because it lacks x, because odds are you are letting the lack of x get in the way of seeing how good the game is (it is this "I think game y sucks because I don't like it" attitude is really starting to annoy me and make me lose faith in the gaming community).
You don't even know what you are arguing about... He had said and I quote, "I probably missed several things, but a lot of these are core game design elements. These MMOs couldn't be more different in terms of core game design elements. In fact theyalmost are opposite of each other. If stretch it so far to compare WildStar with GW2 you can compare WildStar to any MMO in history. Thankfully for WildStar, it is nothing like GW2."
Then you proceeded to argue how they were similar. I am sorry that you were mistaken. Again, if I don't like something, why would I call it good? It isn't a good game to me. I don't bash you for your opinion. If you like something then that is great. More power to you. I will never bash you for something that you like. If I don't like it, I can say that I don't like it. These are discussion boards. The problem is that some people don't seem to be able to accept that.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I dont care if its a perfect baby or w/e, just hope its a fun game and by fun game i mean a game that lets me have fun every minute im logged in. Personally im sick of games where there a lot of boring things u must do just to get progression (reputation farming/gold farming/grind a profession/etc) or were u spend lots of time just doing nothing till enough ppl are logged. The path stuff seems to go in that direction, a way to do thing u like to do on a video game and that u can do when ever u like and that gives a good reward. I only hope that it ends being all what its says it is.
Originally posted by flizzer The cartoon world turns me off and will probably keep me away.
Yup same here. I think there are a potential few million gamers who feel the same way we both do. Wildstar will be a joke to anyone wanting to come into the MMO market and will most likely only gather current MMO players as potential followers.
Originally posted by flizzer The cartoon world turns me off and will probably keep me away.
Yup same here. I think there are a potential few million gamers who feel the same way we both do. Wildstar will be a joke to anyone wanting to come into the MMO market and will most likely only gather current MMO players as potential followers.
I remember reading this exact same shit when EQ2 and WoW were being released. Actually, I believe I was even saying it about WoW.
Originally posted by flizzer The cartoon world turns me off and will probably keep me away.
Yup same here. I think there are a potential few million gamers who feel the same way we both do. Wildstar will be a joke to anyone wanting to come into the MMO market and will most likely only gather current MMO players as potential followers.
And children whos parents are actually smart enough to keep them away from games like Counter Strike. Don't forget about them.
You don't even know what you are arguing about... He had said and I quote, "I probably missed several things, but a lot of these are core game design elements. These MMOs couldn't be more different in terms of core game design elements. In fact theyalmost are opposite of each other. If stretch it so far to compare WildStar with GW2 you can compare WildStar to any MMO in history. Thankfully for WildStar, it is nothing like GW2."
Then you proceeded to argue how they were similar. I am sorry that you were mistaken.
It is. I have seen the videos and stuff and it looks very interesting. There is a beta going on right now, but I think there is an NDA, otherwise people would be going on about how good it is, what is wrong with it, and other things people talk about regarding MMO betas (although even though some people will obviously like certain things other people hate, like the cartoony style for instance, everything everyone will probably agree on is how much better the beta process is than Neverwinter's was lol)
Call me cautiously optimistic. Too many games have looked great on paper but couldn't hold a following once released.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
I don't see why people even put WildStar in the same category as GW2. GW2 was a MMO lite masquerading itself as an MMO. WildStar is a full fledged MMO that includes innovation and tradition.
WildStar:
Has Endgame and a Endgame focus.
Has Raids.
Has Healers.
Has Tanks.
Has the Trinity.
Has progression in PvE includes with gear.
Has progression in PvP including with gear.
Has Mounts.
Has Traditional Questing mixed with dynamic.
World is seamless unlike GW2 which is a series of instances.
Two player factions "at war" with each other.
Has Dueling.
Has Group Finder.
I probably missed several things, but a lot of these are core game design elements. These MMOs couldn't be more different in terms of core game design elements. In fact they almost are opposite of each other. If stretch it so far to compare WildStar with GW2 you can compare WildStar to any MMO in history.
Thankfully for WildStar, it is nothing like GW2.
Did you even read the post? Or did you just see the title and decide to freak out on your keyboard because you don't particularly like GW2? Everything you said aren't "core game design" or mechanics... They're called features, not every MMO has the same features. Speaking of which, how can you say that GW2 is just like every other MMO in history when you had JUST previously stated how different it was? Take all the stabs you want at GW2 (and really that's all this is, look how you put 3 or 4 of the exact same things as separate bullet points.) The fact is that all the similar-to-gw2 features AND game mechanics/design that I mentioned in the OP that you didn't read are accurate.
If WoW was released today even in its' entirety it would be f2p in 3 months. Why is it still such a big deal?
Originally posted by flizzer The cartoon world turns me off and will probably keep me away.
Yup same here. I think there are a potential few million gamers who feel the same way we both do. Wildstar will be a joke to anyone wanting to come into the MMO market and will most likely only gather current MMO players as potential followers.
Why are you here then? Seriously I have no clue why people that say they don't want have anything to do with a game even come to it's forums..
Example, I will not touch Camelot unchained with a ten foot pool, and you will never see me posting in it's forums.
So again I ask why are you even here other then to try to discourage others from playing it I guess?...
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Iam going to be honest here and not try to bash or talk negative about Wildstar, i have not looked into the game or seen enough to say anything good or bad about it !!!
I just talk about what made WoW the best mmo time i have ever had
That time was born when WoW came out and it took 2.5 hours to complete a dungeon and pray you had a piece of blue gear at the end of your run.
Where many guilds where raiding end game contend and a tight SERVER community was build. Where pvp versus the other faction ment something, where you fought for honor and glory. Where you knew the names of the best pvp players on your server from ally to foe. Where in some cases you even knew their real 1st name from Ventrillo.
Where epic battles where fought at raid entrance's and many people where locked out of the raid as they coulnt get past the endless rage of the enemy that blocked said gates, Where you as alliance / horde needed to clear the damn corridors leading to the entrance to get your raid inside.
Where farming gold in peace could turn into a server shutdown as the whole server was called in to wipe that spot clean of enemy's Where you made premades and farmed hours on end for a pvp rank to get a free mount or the highest pvp rank for epeen. Where you build a friend list that lasted for years...
The communty is what makes mmo's great to play. but its the developers to give us the tools to build that kind of mmo... With spoodfed epics and instand cross realm pvp you create a lobby game that dies faster then it gets a chanse to grow. I realy hope Developers can create such mmo where that magic flame will burn once more. WoW's best days where not the 8 million subs.....it was when the game had 500k subs it was the vocal minority that pulled in more and more people into the game before it spread like wildfire and grew into the giant it once was.
If mmo's try to copy the latest shit like Warhammer / Aion / SWTOR / GW2 then the same fait awaits them. it will just be mmo number 197390131 that launches with maybe 2 million subs before server after server dies out.
Its hard to pinpoint where that sweet spot for mmo's is. Where its community gets a chanse to grow and the players gets the tools to make it last.
nobody pays a sub in wow because you can get the repack for free and nobody plays guild wars because it costs 60 bucks before i get to the cash shop. It might have similar features that resemble the two but as far as playability I see it as forcoming as non-exsistent. Whatever you like to do then do it and see how that goes.
I have doubts that the world will be open. I have a feeling it will be like most in that you have to load to go from zone to zone. There aren't many games out there that have the no load continents that WoW has. To me that adds a lot to the game, games that are designed like that could in theory have a central hub that just has doors to zone. This was a big turn off for me in GW2, Tera, Neverwinter. Rift was a pleasant surprise but being more or less a clone of WoW it didn't come as a big shock.
Originally posted by flizzer The cartoon world turns me off and will probably keep me away.
Yup same here. I think there are a potential few million gamers who feel the same way we both do. Wildstar will be a joke to anyone wanting to come into the MMO market and will most likely only gather current MMO players as potential followers.
I remember reading this exact same shit when EQ2 and WoW were being released. Actually, I believe I was even saying it about WoW.
Yup. But you know, gamers are really, really bad at future predictions, despite their inability to resist making them.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by bltme nobody pays a sub in wow because you can get the repack for free and nobody plays guild wars because it costs 60 bucks before i get to the cash shop. It might have similar features that resemble the two but as far as playability I see it as forcoming as non-exsistent. Whatever you like to do then do it and see how that goes.
8 million + WoW subscribers disagree. I lay down $14.99 on monthly basis to play on legit/supported servers.
I don't see why people even put WildStar in the same category as GW2. GW2 was a MMO lite masquerading itself as an MMO. WildStar is a full fledged MMO that includes innovation and tradition.
WildStar:
Has Endgame and a Endgame focus.
Has Raids.
Has Healers.
Has Tanks.
Has the Trinity.
Has progression in PvE includes with gear.
Has progression in PvP including with gear.
Has Mounts.
Has Traditional Questing mixed with dynamic.
World is seamless unlike GW2 which is a series of instances.
Two player factions "at war" with each other.
Has Dueling.
Has Group Finder.
I probably missed several things, but a lot of these are core game design elements. These MMOs couldn't be more different in terms of core game design elements. In fact they almost are opposite of each other. If stretch it so far to compare WildStar with GW2 you can compare WildStar to any MMO in history.
Thankfully for WildStar, it is nothing like GW2.
Did you even read the post? Or did you just see the title and decide to freak out on your keyboard because you don't particularly like GW2? Everything you said aren't "core game design" or mechanics... They're called features, not every MMO has the same features. Speaking of which, how can you say that GW2 is just like every other MMO in history when you had JUST previously stated how different it was? Take all the stabs you want at GW2 (and really that's all this is, look how you put 3 or 4 of the exact same things as separate bullet points.) The fact is that all the similar-to-gw2 features AND game mechanics/design that I mentioned in the OP that you didn't read are accurate.
LOL, thanks for responding to this. I was so confused, like, wait it isn't an mmo but is like every other mmo. .
I for one hope this is an evolution of GW2, which is what I have been waiting for. I love GW2 and the freedom to like it and other games without having to tatoo GW2 to my stomach. Wildstar "feels" like a happy Hybrid.
Watching the combat, sure I have noticed tank, DPS and healer (just like in GW2) but there was no one just sitting back or hiding during the footage I have seen, so the roles will definately be different from what people are used to. For instance, there doesnt appear to be specific targeting without aim, a nice change of pace and something I look forward to.
The thing I am waiting to watch is that will this become an item treadmill. IN the developer blogs they indicate no, and make several jokes mocking the idea of going through the same raid a billion times to turn your +2 sword to +3, I only hope they can implement that skillfully. The problem with RAids is that people want carrots for raiding, which to the detriment of MMOs, has always been items to do "the next" raid. In GW2 the rewards have been to advance the story and for cosmetic items. I hope that story rewards are the number one reward followed by neater things like potential new powers, items for your house and access to minigames.
Originally posted by bltme nobody pays a sub in wow because you can get the repack for free and nobody plays guild wars because it costs 60 bucks before i get to the cash shop. It might have similar features that resemble the two but as far as playability I see it as forcoming as non-exsistent. Whatever you like to do then do it and see how that goes.
8 million + WoW subscribers disagree. I lay down $14.99 on monthly basis to play on legit/supported servers.
As I still play guild wars 2 and even spend a few dollars on the cash shop.
Comments
Quite the opposite really, I have played ENOUGH og GW2 to recognize each thing for what it is.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
You, you can discussion it till the cows come home and even go against what ANet devs themselves say. But WildStar and GW2 are polar opposites in terms of core game design elements. From end game design, to the trinity, to progression.
WoW, Rift, Tera are significantly closer to WildStar than GW2 will ever be.
WildStar is basically a improved version of WoW. Which is a great thing and nothing to shy away from since lead WoW devs made WildStar. But we shouldn't tarnish WildStar by comparing it to GW2.
I have never in my life sang praises of GW2, it is a subpar & lazy game and always was. WildStar on the other hand doesn't look subpar or lazy.
Your arguments are a whole lot of fail. You are arguing semantics and stretching the definitions of pretty much everything. The point that SoMuchMass was making in that gameplay and mechanics are completely different holds true.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
He isn't arguing that gameplay and mechanics are different, but that they are superior because of all the things that in reality aren't necessary for an MMO. I mean, he included something as pointless as mounts in his argument. That right there should be proof enough of this. Since when did mounts become a "core game mechanic"? Never, but he is arguing that it is, and that since Wildstar includes them and GW2 does not, Wildstar will be superior (he goes on and on about these things). His argument revolves around "Wildstar includes game feature x that isn't necessary to make a great MMO but is still common in them and since GW2 does not Wildstar is superior". Also most of the things that he thinks are missing in GW2 are in fact present in GW2, but dressed up to make them look different (e.g. gear progression, tanking, faction vs. faction PvP/dueling, etc.) The rest are things that are not necessary for MMOs but have become so common that most people believe that they are (e.g. mounts, trinity, etc.).
Also, there is a huge difference between not liking an aspect of a game and a game actually sucking. Take TSW for instance. I can't get my head around the combat, but I know enough about it to see that it can work and that TSW does not suck. It is a great game with excellent monster designs, perfect atmosphere, and a story that might as well be tweaked and written into a Lovecraft-inspired book. Personal opinion about games and thinking that they suck doesn't make it so. I learned this from playing Mass Effect (first time I played it I died a lot during the first mission and thought the game sucked because of this, but a few years later I picked it up again, found that I played it wrong the first time, and saw that it was a great game). If you feel that a game sucks because it doesn't have x, fine, say that the game isn't for you because it lacks x, but don't say that the game sucks because it lacks x, because odds are you are letting the lack of x get in the way of seeing how good the game is (it is this "I think game y sucks because I don't like it" attitude is really starting to annoy me and make me lose faith in the gaming community).
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
You don't even know what you are arguing about... He had said and I quote, "I probably missed several things, but a lot of these are core game design elements. These MMOs couldn't be more different in terms of core game design elements. In fact theyalmost are opposite of each other. If stretch it so far to compare WildStar with GW2 you can compare WildStar to any MMO in history. Thankfully for WildStar, it is nothing like GW2."
Then you proceeded to argue how they were similar. I am sorry that you were mistaken. Again, if I don't like something, why would I call it good? It isn't a good game to me. I don't bash you for your opinion. If you like something then that is great. More power to you. I will never bash you for something that you like. If I don't like it, I can say that I don't like it. These are discussion boards. The problem is that some people don't seem to be able to accept that.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I dont care if its a perfect baby or w/e, just hope its a fun game and by fun game i mean a game that lets me have fun every minute im logged in. Personally im sick of games where there a lot of boring things u must do just to get progression (reputation farming/gold farming/grind a profession/etc) or were u spend lots of time just doing nothing till enough ppl are logged. The path stuff seems to go in that direction, a way to do thing u like to do on a video game and that u can do when ever u like and that gives a good reward. I only hope that it ends being all what its says it is.
Yup same here. I think there are a potential few million gamers who feel the same way we both do. Wildstar will be a joke to anyone wanting to come into the MMO market and will most likely only gather current MMO players as potential followers.
SUP
I remember reading this exact same shit when EQ2 and WoW were being released. Actually, I believe I was even saying it about WoW.
And children whos parents are actually smart enough to keep them away from games like Counter Strike. Don't forget about them.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Exactly.
[email protected]
It is. I have seen the videos and stuff and it looks very interesting. There is a beta going on right now, but I think there is an NDA, otherwise people would be going on about how good it is, what is wrong with it, and other things people talk about regarding MMO betas (although even though some people will obviously like certain things other people hate, like the cartoony style for instance, everything everyone will probably agree on is how much better the beta process is than Neverwinter's was lol)
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Call me cautiously optimistic. Too many games have looked great on paper but couldn't hold a following once released.
Which is why many modern day MMOs that aren't released as f2p turn f2p soon after release.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Did you even read the post? Or did you just see the title and decide to freak out on your keyboard because you don't particularly like GW2? Everything you said aren't "core game design" or mechanics... They're called features, not every MMO has the same features. Speaking of which, how can you say that GW2 is just like every other MMO in history when you had JUST previously stated how different it was? Take all the stabs you want at GW2 (and really that's all this is, look how you put 3 or 4 of the exact same things as separate bullet points.) The fact is that all the similar-to-gw2 features AND game mechanics/design that I mentioned in the OP that you didn't read are accurate.
If WoW was released today even in its' entirety it would be f2p in 3 months.
Why is it still such a big deal?
Why are you here then? Seriously I have no clue why people that say they don't want have anything to do with a game even come to it's forums..
Example, I will not touch Camelot unchained with a ten foot pool, and you will never see me posting in it's forums.
So again I ask why are you even here other then to try to discourage others from playing it I guess?...
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
The best post on this topic.
/clap
/bow
Yup. But you know, gamers are really, really bad at future predictions, despite their inability to resist making them.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
8 million + WoW subscribers disagree. I lay down $14.99 on monthly basis to play on legit/supported servers.
LOL, thanks for responding to this. I was so confused, like, wait it isn't an mmo but is like every other mmo.
.
I for one hope this is an evolution of GW2, which is what I have been waiting for. I love GW2 and the freedom to like it and other games without having to tatoo GW2 to my stomach. Wildstar "feels" like a happy Hybrid.
Watching the combat, sure I have noticed tank, DPS and healer (just like in GW2) but there was no one just sitting back or hiding during the footage I have seen, so the roles will definately be different from what people are used to. For instance, there doesnt appear to be specific targeting without aim, a nice change of pace and something I look forward to.
The thing I am waiting to watch is that will this become an item treadmill. IN the developer blogs they indicate no, and make several jokes mocking the idea of going through the same raid a billion times to turn your +2 sword to +3, I only hope they can implement that skillfully. The problem with RAids is that people want carrots for raiding, which to the detriment of MMOs, has always been items to do "the next" raid. In GW2 the rewards have been to advance the story and for cosmetic items. I hope that story rewards are the number one reward followed by neater things like potential new powers, items for your house and access to minigames.
As I still play guild wars 2 and even spend a few dollars on the cash shop.