It's a fantastic idea BUT it really needs Neverwinter to have more dedicated channels than just zone chat.
If there was a Trade channel and an LFG channel I'd be much more supportive of this system.
Yet another thing people have been asking for, but Cryptic ignores despite being a bloody obvious idea. Players are reduced to making their own channels, but not everyone knows about them, so people wind up spamming Zone anyway.
People complained about unchecked gen chat channels and "crossroads" like behavior from these mmorpg communities for YEARS with no real way to stymie bad behavior. And now a company gives the power to the people and they complain they cannot be trusted with it? For the love of....Either you want to be supervised and cuddled or you pull up your big boy(or girl) pants and take the good with the bad that comes with the freedom of keeping your own community in check, your choice. But don't sit there and pretend that this hasn't been an ongoing issue with mmorpgs for YEARS.
Cleaning up the mess that many of us call a mmorpg community has to start somewhere and it might as well start on the foundation of a system like this. If you get muted for telling a tasteless joke in gen chat, then maybe learn that you shouldn't tell jokes like that in gen chat? Or if you've been muted for regurgitating LFG messages or guild recruitment messages at blinding speeds, maybe you should learn to slow it down. And if these people banned cannot understand the weight of irritating 20 different people in such a short amount of time without ragequitting, then maybe they should quit. Either you keep it civil or see yourself out the front door. If 20 of your fellow peers that actually pay attention to gen chat agree that what you did was inappropriate, then let the hammer fall I say. Will there be some cases of abuse? You better believe it, but it beats the alternative of not having the ability to do a damn thing about at least trying to correct the questionable behavior like it was before.
A 24 muted ban is nothing more than a slap on the wrist. It doesn't stop you from using voice chat or 3rd party programs to communicate. What it does do it place the responsibility of community back in the hands of players. Just like it use to be way back when shooting off at the mouth could mean no more character advancement cause no one would group with you. Like I said you either want the ability to change things or fear that ability can be used against you. Which is the stronger pull for you? I know I have nothing to fear as I don't question my own behavior, it's always respectable in-game.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
[...]Like I said you either want the ability to change things or fear that ability can be used against you. Which is the stronger pull for you? I know I have nothing to fear as I don't question my own behavior, it's always respectable in-game.
Doesn't the issue that those people you pointed out need regulating possess the exact same regulatory powers with absolutely no supervision (mute system is automatic, there are no GMs to contact to contest it) concern you? Especially for a F2P game where creating dummy accounts is trivial and the client doesn't prevent multiple instances of itself from running at the same time?
Letting the community police itself is a nice, optimistic idea on paper that might be feasible given proper execution, but this is definitely not an example of such; there is no supervision by impartial parties, no accountability for abuse of the system, nothing to prevent the abuse of the system, and with the way it's designed there's no guarantee you're even being punished for what you said at the time.
Look up at how I described the system works. It's not 20 people reporting you for a statement or spam, it's 20 accounts (not necessarily 20 different people) putting you on the ignore list within that 24 hour block (so you don't actually have to annoy 20 people simultaneously) - and I should add this is regardless if you're online or not (so don't include your @handle in forum posts, people who don't like what you post can log in and contribute to your mute counter, regardless of how civil you are).
You may like the concept, but you have to at least admit there must be a better way of implementing it.
Originally posted by Ikeda I've been waiting for 11 days for a response to my ticket....
I made an in game ticket and it was never replied to. The same day I made the in game ticket, I also tracked down their customer support email and sent an identical message. Got a response within 2 days.
This sounds like the best feature Neverwinter has brought to MMOs.
I imagine it will get removed soon due to mass complaints, but I love the idea of people being trained to think before spamming.
Lol, yes, the training seems to be working too. People are still selling things and LFG/Guild Recruitment, which is fine by me, but the actual spamming had died right down last night in Protector's Enclave. It just shows that even the stupidest of people can be brought to heel, to the betterment of the community.
This sounds like the best feature Neverwinter has brought to MMOs.
I imagine it will get removed soon due to mass complaints, but I love the idea of people being trained to think before spamming.
Horrible system. It's not that hard to you know... IGNORE the spam and really capping an ignore list is retarded. Then you have the issue where people can grieve others or those who are passionate in debates or who go against the flow. And really silencing players for guild recruitment is friggin retarded. They're trying to build their guild or people just trying to get a nice group together. Sure it's annoying but it is easily tolerated.
Horrible system. It's not that hard to you know... IGNORE the spam...
Are you for real? People new to the game are trying to get questions answered and can't because the Wal-Mart refugees are spamming their crap constantly. It's hard to ignore the spam when you're trying to wade through all the crap in order to help someone out.
I repeat, I have no objection to people posting "normally" in Chat, but if I see the same message repeated two or three times in my 8-line high Chat box they will, without fail, get /reported. I can't see how any decent players would object to that. There are players abusing the system towards their own selfish ends by holding down ALT and double- or even triple-tapping the up arrow in the space of a second. In fact, come to think of it, I'm actually looking forward to my stint of "Report The Spammers" in Protector's Enclave today, and thus doing my part to improve the community.
Horrible system. It's not that hard to you know... IGNORE the spam...
Are you for real? People new to the game are trying to get questions answered and can't because the Wal-Mart refugees are spamming their crap constantly. It's hard to ignore the spam when you're trying to wade through all the crap in order to help someone out.
I repeat, I have no objection to people posting "normally" in Chat, but if I see the same message repeated two or three times in my 8-line high Chat box they will, without fail, get /reported. I can't see how any decent players would object to that. There are players abusing the system towards their own selfish ends by holding down ALT and double- or even triple-tapping the up arrow in the space of a second. In fact, come to think of it, I'm actually looking forward to my stint of "Report The Spammers" in Protector's Enclave today, and thus doing my part to improve the community.
The problem is that isn't really spam. The spam report was meant to be used against gold spammers and rude kiddies that keep spamming the same thing over and over and over not someone trying to get group going or sell an item. This is what I thinks as the frequency is subjective to grade something as "spam".
No instead of abusing the system because others are using and it bothers you, you should be targeting the real issues which is cryptic is stupid and should have included a trade tab and lfm tab. They should also fix the grouping system as it plain outright sucks and isn't very effective at what it's "suppose" to be doing.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
can't see CCP doing it in EVE but I'd vote for it. I'm not sure it can be abused, I don't have much to say in local chat and if it was muted it wouldn't bother me, so why not?
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
Wonder if i can run 20 clients over a couple PC's. Imagine the mayhem you could cause if you spent and couple hours reporting every single person in chat lol.
They shouldn't have general chat in games. Just local party and guild and the chat ban thing would work fine. They also need to limit the number of people someone can report each day.
you should be targeting the real issues which is cryptic is stupid and should have included a trade tab and lfm tab.
No game, in the history of MMOs, has ever seen people sticking 100% to using Trade and LFG chat channels. If you think people would flock to use them en masse you're being unrealistic, because it only takes a few people refusing to use them before EVERYONE refuses to use them.
Horrible system. It's not that hard to you know... IGNORE the spam...
Are you for real? People new to the game are trying to get questions answered and can't because the Wal-Mart refugees are spamming their crap constantly. It's hard to ignore the spam when you're trying to wade through all the crap in order to help someone out.
I repeat, I have no objection to people posting "normally" in Chat, but if I see the same message repeated two or three times in my 8-line high Chat box they will, without fail, get /reported. I can't see how any decent players would object to that. There are players abusing the system towards their own selfish ends by holding down ALT and double- or even triple-tapping the up arrow in the space of a second. In fact, come to think of it, I'm actually looking forward to my stint of "Report The Spammers" in Protector's Enclave today, and thus doing my part to improve the community.
I guess if nothing else....this shows that players get irritated about people spamming constantly in the zone chat.
I assume they don't like seeing the zone chat scroll super fast up.....and instead want players to use the correct channels and things for trying to sell their product or sell their guild.
Perhaps maybe a suggestion should be passed on to the developers to create specific channels for guild recruitment and for sales and Price check messages and selling gold on some web site.
I mean its not like you cant already do this on the message forums.....
Also maybe the developers should have people suggest to them that instead of having the boards in the city area only activating a menu that they actually have the advertisements and things on them as well.
funny thing is, people who are against LFG systems in modern day MMO, want people to spam around asking for group. but with system like this, you can get reported and silenced from socializing.
Since everyone seems to be missing the issue.... The problem isn't being banned from zone chat, the problem is being banned from every form of communicating in game. Because you get banned from zone chat, you essentially cannot play for 24 hours unless you have other player's information out of game.
People reporting you, and getting you banned for "spamming" chat disables:
Guild chat. Whispers. Party chat. Cannot ask for a rez while in a group. (only the color flashes) Chat in ALL of Cryptic's games. (Seriously... Sounds so insane that it has to be a joke... But it's not. What?)
For 24 hours.
This is one of the only MMOs I've played (out of a substantial amount) that allows people to essentially punish anyone they want and ruin their gaming experience. It takes 20 people to remove you from all chat for 24 hours. 20 people out of over a thousand in the main city at any given time. This could be a guild targeting people for fun, just to troll them.
Some solutions could be:
-Establish distinct trade and LFG chats. -A rate limiter, that limits messages to once every 30 seconds to a minute. -Reporting spam ~ Removing someone from zone chat for a limited time that increases over the amount of reports. -A ban from zone chat only. -Increasing the threshold on the amount of reports required (still does not fix the problem of being banned from all forms of communication)
By allowing people to report spam, and letting them know that it's going to have direct consequences on the people they are doing it to ~ fosters a toxic community that gets off on the thrill that they can ruin the game for someone else. See this thread for proof.
Originally Posted by shahualing
Personally, I enjoy it. It's instant justice.
(page 6)
Original Post:
This is the 3rd time I have been chat banned for doing nothing other than trying to buy an item or trying to find people for a group.
Not spam. It's becoming more and more frequent for everyone I play with as well. Try to LFG? Chat banned. Try to find people? Chat banned.
It's one thing to chat ban someone from zone. But chat banning from party chat? From whispers? From guild chat? That's a broken system. Ban me from zone, I would accept it. But people are intentionally ruining the game for everyone else just because they post something in zone chat.
I just find it hilarious how people cry about how LoL is lowering the importance of the tribunal, but they don't want it in any other game XD. I think it's a good thing. ANYTHING can be exploited in games if someone is determined enough. It's just like a lock on your house...if someone wants in bad enough, they're going to get in...
I could make 5 accounts and have them run dailies together, then trade the AD to my main...boom exploited 5x daily ad (an actual exploit that people are being banned over as we speak)... I could take those same 5 and run quests and boom, lots of gold, not to mention they would level up really really fast and easy. Run out of character slots, make another account, boom saved $5 on character slots...there's a million exploits in any game, whether someone uses them or not is a different matter.
I could make 5 accounts and have them run dailies together, then trade the AD to my main...boom exploited 5x daily ad (an actual exploit that people are being banned over as we speak)... I could take those same 5 and run quests and boom, lots of gold, not to mention they would level up really really fast and easy. Run out of character slots, make another account, boom saved $5 on character slots...there's a million exploits in any game, whether someone uses them or not is a different matter.
What you just described are things that affect your own enjoyment of the game, for better or worse; anything that can be exploited to negatively impact another person's experience of a game isn't a good thing.
For example, with the recent Astral Diamond exploit:
It wasn't the AH that was being exploited, it was a flaw in the AH that was exploited. That flaw was a bug that allowed the AH to accept and process negative values.
Similarly, what's being exploited isn't the mute system itself. It's a flaw in the mute system. That flaw is how incredibly fucking easy it is to exploit, with absolutely no review process or any accountability for exploiters.
A better system would be to have players report a spammer, which flags the account for automated tracking. If the system notes the person says the same (or similar) phrase x number of times within y amount of time, then it applies a "token" to the account and mutes that account for an equivalent number of hours (and that token will take the same amount of time to decay after the mute is over, a "probation" period, if you will); if the account detected as spamming again during the "probation", the system will double the number of "tokens" and imposes that many hours of mute again.
Theoretically this should prevent people who aren't spamming from being muted automatically, while people who are spamming receive increasingly harder slaps on the wrist if they maintain that behavior, and without imposing artificial reporting limits on the more vigilant players and requiring Cryptic/PWE to write another paycheck for - gasp - a GM.
i think the system is retarded, here is a tip you dont wanna here spam in zone or trade chats turn them off,
casue trade is for the purpose of selling and buying its going to get spammed and if ya think zone chat is good in any game well, ok some are worse then others but in general dont pay attention to it.
i dont turn ether off i just put them in a alternate tab or simpy ignore them its not that hard,
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
i think the system is retarded, here is a tip you dont wanna here spam in zone or trade chats turn them off...
Ahhh, but I like answering the questions asked by new players, so I'll just ignore your (I use the term loosely) "advice." I'll continue to enjoy /reporting anyone who abuses the system by posting their crap so fast that I end up seeing it two or three times in my 8-line high Chat box. When people get banned for that, they deserve it.
Chat IS getting better though - in a 15 minute stint I only reported 5 people for doing that last night.
EDIT: For anyone interested there's a poll thread asking what people think about the /report system. So far 73.94% of voters love it, 16.20% hate it and 9.85% have "other feelings"...
Comments
Yet another thing people have been asking for, but Cryptic ignores despite being a bloody obvious idea. Players are reduced to making their own channels, but not everyone knows about them, so people wind up spamming Zone anyway.
People complained about unchecked gen chat channels and "crossroads" like behavior from these mmorpg communities for YEARS with no real way to stymie bad behavior. And now a company gives the power to the people and they complain they cannot be trusted with it? For the love of....Either you want to be supervised and cuddled or you pull up your big boy(or girl) pants and take the good with the bad that comes with the freedom of keeping your own community in check, your choice. But don't sit there and pretend that this hasn't been an ongoing issue with mmorpgs for YEARS.
Cleaning up the mess that many of us call a mmorpg community has to start somewhere and it might as well start on the foundation of a system like this. If you get muted for telling a tasteless joke in gen chat, then maybe learn that you shouldn't tell jokes like that in gen chat? Or if you've been muted for regurgitating LFG messages or guild recruitment messages at blinding speeds, maybe you should learn to slow it down. And if these people banned cannot understand the weight of irritating 20 different people in such a short amount of time without ragequitting, then maybe they should quit. Either you keep it civil or see yourself out the front door. If 20 of your fellow peers that actually pay attention to gen chat agree that what you did was inappropriate, then let the hammer fall I say. Will there be some cases of abuse? You better believe it, but it beats the alternative of not having the ability to do a damn thing about at least trying to correct the questionable behavior like it was before.
A 24 muted ban is nothing more than a slap on the wrist. It doesn't stop you from using voice chat or 3rd party programs to communicate. What it does do it place the responsibility of community back in the hands of players. Just like it use to be way back when shooting off at the mouth could mean no more character advancement cause no one would group with you. Like I said you either want the ability to change things or fear that ability can be used against you. Which is the stronger pull for you? I know I have nothing to fear as I don't question my own behavior, it's always respectable in-game.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Doesn't the issue that those people you pointed out need regulating possess the exact same regulatory powers with absolutely no supervision (mute system is automatic, there are no GMs to contact to contest it) concern you? Especially for a F2P game where creating dummy accounts is trivial and the client doesn't prevent multiple instances of itself from running at the same time?
Letting the community police itself is a nice, optimistic idea on paper that might be feasible given proper execution, but this is definitely not an example of such; there is no supervision by impartial parties, no accountability for abuse of the system, nothing to prevent the abuse of the system, and with the way it's designed there's no guarantee you're even being punished for what you said at the time.
Look up at how I described the system works. It's not 20 people reporting you for a statement or spam, it's 20 accounts (not necessarily 20 different people) putting you on the ignore list within that 24 hour block (so you don't actually have to annoy 20 people simultaneously) - and I should add this is regardless if you're online or not (so don't include your @handle in forum posts, people who don't like what you post can log in and contribute to your mute counter, regardless of how civil you are).
You may like the concept, but you have to at least admit there must be a better way of implementing it.
This sounds like the best feature Neverwinter has brought to MMOs.
I imagine it will get removed soon due to mass complaints, but I love the idea of people being trained to think before spamming.
I made an in game ticket and it was never replied to. The same day I made the in game ticket, I also tracked down their customer support email and sent an identical message. Got a response within 2 days.
Lol, yes, the training seems to be working too. People are still selling things and LFG/Guild Recruitment, which is fine by me, but the actual spamming had died right down last night in Protector's Enclave. It just shows that even the stupidest of people can be brought to heel, to the betterment of the community.
1) It's been a feature of Cryptic's chat servers for over three years now, it's nothing new that NWO brought about.
2) People have been complaining about it being abused ever since it was implemented, Cryptic said they won't remove it.
Horrible system. It's not that hard to you know... IGNORE the spam and really capping an ignore list is retarded. Then you have the issue where people can grieve others or those who are passionate in debates or who go against the flow. And really silencing players for guild recruitment is friggin retarded. They're trying to build their guild or people just trying to get a nice group together. Sure it's annoying but it is easily tolerated.
Gogo more anti-social tools.
Are you for real?
People new to the game are trying to get questions answered and can't because the Wal-Mart refugees are spamming their crap constantly. It's hard to ignore the spam when you're trying to wade through all the crap in order to help someone out.
I repeat, I have no objection to people posting "normally" in Chat, but if I see the same message repeated two or three times in my 8-line high Chat box they will, without fail, get /reported. I can't see how any decent players would object to that. There are players abusing the system towards their own selfish ends by holding down ALT and double- or even triple-tapping the up arrow in the space of a second. In fact, come to think of it, I'm actually looking forward to my stint of "Report The Spammers" in Protector's Enclave today, and thus doing my part to improve the community.
The problem is that isn't really spam. The spam report was meant to be used against gold spammers and rude kiddies that keep spamming the same thing over and over and over not someone trying to get group going or sell an item. This is what I thinks as the frequency is subjective to grade something as "spam".
No instead of abusing the system because others are using and it bothers you, you should be targeting the real issues which is cryptic is stupid and should have included a trade tab and lfm tab. They should also fix the grouping system as it plain outright sucks and isn't very effective at what it's "suppose" to be doing.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
can't see CCP doing it in EVE but I'd vote for it. I'm not sure it can be abused, I don't have much to say in local chat and if it was muted it wouldn't bother me, so why not?
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
No game, in the history of MMOs, has ever seen people sticking 100% to using Trade and LFG chat channels. If you think people would flock to use them en masse you're being unrealistic, because it only takes a few people refusing to use them before EVERYONE refuses to use them.
funny thing is, people who are against LFG systems in modern day MMO, want people to spam around asking for group. but with system like this, you can get reported and silenced from socializing.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
wow clearly this has to be a joke of a system. Check out that first page. The developers exposed themselves. lol.
I am having a hard time believing this. can anybody prove this is legit?
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?292362-Chat-Banned-Proof-this-system-sucks
Since everyone seems to be missing the issue.... The problem isn't being banned from zone chat, the problem is being banned from every form of communicating in game. Because you get banned from zone chat, you essentially cannot play for 24 hours unless you have other player's information out of game.
People reporting you, and getting you banned for "spamming" chat disables:
Guild chat.
Whispers.
Party chat.
Cannot ask for a rez while in a group. (only the color flashes)
Chat in ALL of Cryptic's games. (Seriously... Sounds so insane that it has to be a joke... But it's not. What?)
For 24 hours.
This is one of the only MMOs I've played (out of a substantial amount) that allows people to essentially punish anyone they want and ruin their gaming experience. It takes 20 people to remove you from all chat for 24 hours. 20 people out of over a thousand in the main city at any given time. This could be a guild targeting people for fun, just to troll them.
Some solutions could be:
-Establish distinct trade and LFG chats.
-A rate limiter, that limits messages to once every 30 seconds to a minute.
-Reporting spam ~ Removing someone from zone chat for a limited time that increases over the amount of reports.
-A ban from zone chat only.
-Increasing the threshold on the amount of reports required (still does not fix the problem of being banned from all forms of communication)
By allowing people to report spam, and letting them know that it's going to have direct consequences on the people they are doing it to ~ fosters a toxic community that gets off on the thrill that they can ruin the game for someone else. See this thread for proof.
Personally, I enjoy it. It's instant justice.
Original Post:
This is the 3rd time I have been chat banned for doing nothing other than trying to buy an item or trying to find people for a group.
Not spam. It's becoming more and more frequent for everyone I play with as well. Try to LFG? Chat banned. Try to find people? Chat banned.
It's one thing to chat ban someone from zone. But chat banning from party chat? From whispers? From guild chat? That's a broken system. Ban me from zone, I would accept it. But people are intentionally ruining the game for everyone else just because they post something in zone chat.
http://i.imgur.com/2rIVNYu.jpg Full resolution
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I just find it hilarious how people cry about how LoL is lowering the importance of the tribunal, but they don't want it in any other game XD. I think it's a good thing. ANYTHING can be exploited in games if someone is determined enough. It's just like a lock on your house...if someone wants in bad enough, they're going to get in...
I could make 5 accounts and have them run dailies together, then trade the AD to my main...boom exploited 5x daily ad (an actual exploit that people are being banned over as we speak)... I could take those same 5 and run quests and boom, lots of gold, not to mention they would level up really really fast and easy. Run out of character slots, make another account, boom saved $5 on character slots...there's a million exploits in any game, whether someone uses them or not is a different matter.
What you just described are things that affect your own enjoyment of the game, for better or worse; anything that can be exploited to negatively impact another person's experience of a game isn't a good thing.
For example, with the recent Astral Diamond exploit:
It wasn't the AH that was being exploited, it was a flaw in the AH that was exploited. That flaw was a bug that allowed the AH to accept and process negative values.
Similarly, what's being exploited isn't the mute system itself. It's a flaw in the mute system. That flaw is how incredibly fucking easy it is to exploit, with absolutely no review process or any accountability for exploiters.
A better system would be to have players report a spammer, which flags the account for automated tracking. If the system notes the person says the same (or similar) phrase x number of times within y amount of time, then it applies a "token" to the account and mutes that account for an equivalent number of hours (and that token will take the same amount of time to decay after the mute is over, a "probation" period, if you will); if the account detected as spamming again during the "probation", the system will double the number of "tokens" and imposes that many hours of mute again.
Theoretically this should prevent people who aren't spamming from being muted automatically, while people who are spamming receive increasingly harder slaps on the wrist if they maintain that behavior, and without imposing artificial reporting limits on the more vigilant players and requiring Cryptic/PWE to write another paycheck for - gasp - a GM.
i think the system is retarded, here is a tip you dont wanna here spam in zone or trade chats turn them off,
casue trade is for the purpose of selling and buying its going to get spammed and if ya think zone chat is good in any game well, ok some are worse then others but in general dont pay attention to it.
i dont turn ether off i just put them in a alternate tab or simpy ignore them its not that hard,
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Getting banned for lfg, just plain sucks!
If your having trouble playing, then you either play with others or quit. If you can't play with others, then there is only one option left!
A better system would be to start with a small time ban of say 10 minutes and if the offender repeats the offense, then make the ban longer!
Ahhh, but I like answering the questions asked by new players, so I'll just ignore your (I use the term loosely) "advice." I'll continue to enjoy /reporting anyone who abuses the system by posting their crap so fast that I end up seeing it two or three times in my 8-line high Chat box. When people get banned for that, they deserve it.
Chat IS getting better though - in a 15 minute stint I only reported 5 people for doing that last night.
EDIT: For anyone interested there's a poll thread asking what people think about the /report system. So far 73.94% of voters love it, 16.20% hate it and 9.85% have "other feelings"...
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?300482-Do-you-have-a-problem-with-the-current-community-policing-(24h-Mute)
Vote away!!