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A long time MMO player's lament

24

Comments

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Canton, OHPosts: 90Member

    Sadly...MMORPG's as you and I wish for are gone. The genre is becoming extinct as a separate and unique genre.

    Probably a better chance of meeting Megan Fox in person and her asking you to tongue-punch her fartbox than seeing a traditional MMORPG come around again. Too many greedy hands in the cookie jar and too many in this society of the rat race self entitlement type for it to change anytime soon...if ever.

  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,098Member Uncommon
    You wont find another game like Lineage 2. I been searching for years and cant find one. Looking foward to ArcheAge and Black Deserts.
    Raptr Gamercard
  • Aldous.HuxleyAldous.Huxley Monticello, MNPosts: 418Member

    The deep end of the pool has been roped off. The children complained because they couldn't touch the bottom & they didn't want to take the time needed to learn how to swim.

     

    I'm hoping EQnext will be bold enough to tackle some of these gaps in depth. Not that I'm holding my breath purposely. But those of us who cut our teeth in the deep end of the pool are used to holding our breath, I suppose. Or perhaps nostalgic memories give false hope. Either way... 

     

    Cheers & good luck.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    I don't see what discussing your ideals of what you want from an MMORPG hurting anything or are unrealistic.

    Nope, discuss away. No one can stop you from adopting whatever expectations you have.

    But honestly, no one can stop me (or anybody) from pointing out that in combination, the sum of individual expectations can be equivalent to rejecting everything. If you reject the whole market, you have no option at all except grumbling, right?

    What to do with your leisure time now?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    I don't see what discussing your ideals of what you want from an MMORPG hurting anything or are unrealistic.

    Nope, discuss away. No one can stop you from adopting whatever expectations you have.

    But honestly, no one can stop me (or anybody) from pointing out that in combination, the sum of individual expectations can be equivalent to rejecting everything. If you reject the whole market, you have no option at all except grumbling, right?

    What to do with your leisure time now?

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.  The balance has been lost.  I can understand considering the cost takes to bring entertainment to consumers.  I try to support quality at this point.

    That said I haven't totally rejected the industry but the only way to get change is to vote with a ballot for government or vote with your pockets when it comes to corporations.  The MMORPG industry hasn't evolved much in 10 years.  How else do I let boardman or whoever controls the release of these generic games that I don't want to support their goal of matching WoW success by coping what they did in 2004 but  to not give them my money?  

    I still play MMORPG but at this point basic standards are for me is to have a footprint in the world for me to spend money.   Meaning essentially basic sandbox qualities.  If I'm just going to ride the rides on a themepark  I can do it much better with games like Elder Scrolls single player games.  

    Right now I do more family stuff when there family to do it with.  But gaming, sports watching, streaming media, drawing, various forums and reading consist of my house time leisure time.  

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

    Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

    All right, joo win (?)

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Canton, OHPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

    Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

    All right, joo win (?)

    It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric because it goes against what you like and you are apparently happy with the current trend of the MMORPG genre.

    I see it as 2 types that are fine with how far off the path the MMORPG genre has gone.

    1) Those that came in with the mass media marketing of WoW from other genres and don't really know what made them what they were prior to nor care. Or..

    2) Old school gamers that want to try and hold onto MMORPG gaming, but don't have the time, or want to dedicate the time needed to play them as they were meant to be played...so have no issue with them de-evolving into console style games to meet their own needs.

    All you have to do is look at the history of the MMORPG industry and the gigantic influx of companies trying to make their mark simply due to WoW's huge success of mainstreaming the genre. It's nothing but a quick cash grab now more than making a quality product fans can enjoy for years on end. No more passion put into their games.

     

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

    Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

    All right, joo win (?)

    It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric

    Incidentally, the word "rhetoric" has nothing at all to do with truth or falsity.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXPosts: 1,205Member
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

    Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

    All right, joo win (?)

    It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric because it goes against what you like and you are apparently happy with the current trend of the MMORPG genre.

    "Truth" is a pretty subjective thing when it comes to likes/dislikes. May  be "truth" to you but not to many of us.

    I see it as 2 types that are fine with how far off the path the MMORPG genre has gone.

    1) Those that came in with the mass media marketing of WoW from other genres and don't really know what made them what they were prior to nor care. Or..

    2) Old school gamers that want to try and hold onto MMORPG gaming, but don't have the time, or want to dedicate the time needed to play them as they were meant to be played...so have no issue with them de-evolving into console style games to meet their own needs.

    Meant to be played? Pray tell in what manual or holy book of gaming does it state how an MMO is supposed to be played? Ohhh, you mean play it like "YOU" like.... gotcha!  

    All you have to do is look at the history of the MMORPG industry and the gigantic influx of companies trying to make their mark simply due to WoW's huge success of mainstreaming the genre. It's nothing but a quick cash grab now more than making a quality product fans can enjoy for years on end. No more passion put into their games.

    Again, your opinion as many people are happy with the game they currently play.

    This here is a prime example of the jaded vet syndrome: "Everything was better back in the day!" "Today's players don't have the right mind set and don't know how to play games right!!! " 

    Sadly, if this is how you feel about the genre, maybe it is time to find a new hobby?

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Canton, OHPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

    Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

    All right, joo win (?)

    It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric

    Incidentally, the word "rhetoric" has nothing at all to do with truth or falsity.

    True enough in essence. But seems most use the term when they can't argue the point further. Just as you only quoted that section because it's what you could argue and ignored the rest.

    At any rate...I am not saying fast paced rat race theme parks can't exist either...but would be quite nice to see something other than that style as well. Just have to wait on the sidelines and hope some company opens their eyes and looks past the giant WoWish piggy bank and finds the passion in what they do again and can get the suits to see their is money in it if done right.

    Personally...I feel if someone can do it right...it will have the potential to be the next big money machine simply because it is different (Again, if done right). All these ones now go F2P, or simply go under now because it's more of the same with a different title and wrapper.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,464Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scalpless

    ArcheAge, I suppose? Hard to say without playing it, but it seems to promise most of the above. All other games I've played lately lack several of the things you mentioned.

    If you decide to make the damn thing yourself, I'll sub.

    Yep Archeage is the first game since  probably Vanguard to offer everything.It really shows how amazing Vanguard was,it also had that political card game that many found was a nice added touch.

    Unlike VG ,AA will not lack money,the game has been in a very long Beta,again something other games do not do.

    Other games like to force pre orders on you to get into what is suppose to be a beta test.

    I might a tad skeptical on crafting in AA but no other game has got it completely right either.I don't think AA will have the furniture crafting EQ2 has but does have boat/ship building.

    AS tough as it was for VG to release having run out of money,the game did a better job than every game since.That says a lot about the laziness and quality of games since VG.AA i believe will match VG but with more polish and not all the bugs either.

    The ONLY other game i would consider playing right now long term is FFXIV.

    If AA or FFXIV don't pan out,i have a quality game in FFXI that i can find enjoyment in.I do get bored after awhile and need a break so i pop into any F2p game and just mess around for a week or two,then go back to FFXi or hoepfully AA or FFXIV.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    True enough in essence. But seems most use the term when they can't argue the point further.

    Actually, I used the term to skip answering the Sermon.

    Look, he's waiting for The Sandbox, otherwise preaching defeatism and pretty typical anti-corporatism (yes, I'm paraphrasing).

    Nothing more to say to him, really. If that's what he want to do with his time, there will always be significant "me toos" to be found on this site.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Canton, OHPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted by kakasaki
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

    Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

    All right, joo win (?)

    It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric because it goes against what you like and you are apparently happy with the current trend of the MMORPG genre.

    "Truth" is a pretty subjective thing when it comes to likes/dislikes. May  be "truth" to you but not to many of us.

    I see it as 2 types that are fine with how far off the path the MMORPG genre has gone.

    1) Those that came in with the mass media marketing of WoW from other genres and don't really know what made them what they were prior to nor care. Or..

    2) Old school gamers that want to try and hold onto MMORPG gaming, but don't have the time, or want to dedicate the time needed to play them as they were meant to be played...so have no issue with them de-evolving into console style games to meet their own needs.

    Meant to be played? Pray tell in what manual or holy book of gaming does it state how an MMO is supposed to be played? Ohhh, you mean play it like "YOU" like.... gotcha!  

    All you have to do is look at the history of the MMORPG industry and the gigantic influx of companies trying to make their mark simply due to WoW's huge success of mainstreaming the genre. It's nothing but a quick cash grab now more than making a quality product fans can enjoy for years on end. No more passion put into their games.

    Again, your opinion as many people are happy with the game they currently play.

    This here is a prime example of the jaded vet syndrome: "Everything was better back in the day!" "Today's players don't have the right mind set and don't know how to play games right!!! " 

    Sadly, if this is how you feel about the genre, maybe it is time to find a new hobby?

    This here is a prime example of the modern gamer ASSUMING and defending the theme park treadmill they like because it's all there is.

    Did I say anywhere the old way was better? No. Did I say today's gamer's don't know how to play the games right? No. There was plenty that definitely needed upgrading. But there are also PLENTY of elements that defined them as a unique and separate genre from console gaming that have gone extinct in the name of numbers and greed.

    It's possible to have those old elements and new combined and make a decent game.

    I love how people such as you say I and others should just find a new hobby too. If tables were turned, I would not be telling you the same...and the reason is because I am not selfish and everyone is entitled to their opinion and tastes....and because I had what I wanted en mass, doesn't mean I should tell others they can't hope for something they enjoy, or tell them to leave.

    I am absolutely sure if old school MMORPG gamer's invaded console gaming en mass and whined to have them slowed down, more interaction between players, etc, etc and companies listened because they became the majority....long time console players would be up in arms.

     

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

    Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

    All right, joo win (?)

    Lol, it's not rhetoric it's belief.  There's nothing to win this is a discussion of opinions.   But you got your zinger as the I am rational poster and above the fray.  All right, joo win (?).   We get it.

    IMO there's not much denying that there has been consolidation and formulation of gaming.  MMORPG's have literally been taken over by formulated gaming.   As in the industry has been taken over by the WoW clone phenomenon.  Whether it's level grinders/sandboxes or whatever your desired game used to be your stuck with generic quest level hub games based off something that came out decade ago.   Unlike conventional gaming the indie community is a harsh one because of extreme budgeting  thus no real undercurrent like you have with conventional gaming.  

     

     

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

    Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

    All right, joo win (?)

    It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric

    Incidentally, the word "rhetoric" has nothing at all to do with truth or falsity.

    True enough in essence. But seems most use the term when they can't argue the point further. Just as you only quoted that section because it's what you could argue and ignored the rest.

    Mainly, because it's the basis of the guy's argument and it is false. There's no point in arguing the conclusion. If someone says chickens are red and then argues why the red color needs to be changed, the most reasonable response is to remind the person that chickens aren't red.

    What Icewhite posted earlier was rather spot on. However, what's also worthy of note is that you and many others cast these blanket aspersions on developers and then wonder why they don't listen to you. :)

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    What Icewhite posted earlier was rather spot on. However, what's also worthy of note is that you and many others cast these blanket aspersions on developers and then wonder why they don't listen to you. :)

    Thanks Lok, but we're descending quickly into the themepark/sandbox thread (honestly, I'd rather not go there again).

    I don't think you can talk people out of defeatism, once they've accepted it. Not easily, anyway.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kakasaki
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

    Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

    All right, joo win (?)

    It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric because it goes against what you like and you are apparently happy with the current trend of the MMORPG genre.

    "Truth" is a pretty subjective thing when it comes to likes/dislikes. May  be "truth" to you but not to many of us.

    I see it as 2 types that are fine with how far off the path the MMORPG genre has gone.

    1) Those that came in with the mass media marketing of WoW from other genres and don't really know what made them what they were prior to nor care. Or..

    2) Old school gamers that want to try and hold onto MMORPG gaming, but don't have the time, or want to dedicate the time needed to play them as they were meant to be played...so have no issue with them de-evolving into console style games to meet their own needs.

    Meant to be played? Pray tell in what manual or holy book of gaming does it state how an MMO is supposed to be played? Ohhh, you mean play it like "YOU" like.... gotcha!  

    All you have to do is look at the history of the MMORPG industry and the gigantic influx of companies trying to make their mark simply due to WoW's huge success of mainstreaming the genre. It's nothing but a quick cash grab now more than making a quality product fans can enjoy for years on end. No more passion put into their games.

    Again, your opinion as many people are happy with the game they currently play.

    This here is a prime example of the jaded vet syndrome: "Everything was better back in the day!" "Today's players don't have the right mind set and don't know how to play games right!!! " 

    Sadly, if this is how you feel about the genre, maybe it is time to find a new hobby?

    Lol, and your the classic case of the personal critical of the person critical of the gaming industry.  

    I don't think the good old days were better in terms what it was or I'd still be playing those same games.  Things were better in a sense that there was more creatively and freedom with what we could play.  Though some of it is because budget cost cause developers to be less risky and another is because some genre didn't exist.  Some genre are tired and dead.  

    But I do other things besides spending endless hours in MMORPG's because they're largely generic and I don't even have the time anymore nor would want to spend endless hours on a game.   But as I said before I'll wait on the sidelines until there is a game that's really worth my investment and I will occasionally talk about it on forums.  If that borthers you maybe you should find a new hobby as well?

  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXPosts: 1,205Member
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by kakasaki
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

    Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

    All right, joo win (?)

    It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric because it goes against what you like and you are apparently happy with the current trend of the MMORPG genre.

    "Truth" is a pretty subjective thing when it comes to likes/dislikes. May  be "truth" to you but not to many of us.

    I see it as 2 types that are fine with how far off the path the MMORPG genre has gone.

    1) Those that came in with the mass media marketing of WoW from other genres and don't really know what made them what they were prior to nor care. Or..

    2) Old school gamers that want to try and hold onto MMORPG gaming, but don't have the time, or want to dedicate the time needed to play them as they were meant to be played...so have no issue with them de-evolving into console style games to meet their own needs.

    Meant to be played? Pray tell in what manual or holy book of gaming does it state how an MMO is supposed to be played? Ohhh, you mean play it like "YOU" like.... gotcha!  

    All you have to do is look at the history of the MMORPG industry and the gigantic influx of companies trying to make their mark simply due to WoW's huge success of mainstreaming the genre. It's nothing but a quick cash grab now more than making a quality product fans can enjoy for years on end. No more passion put into their games.

    Again, your opinion as many people are happy with the game they currently play.

    This here is a prime example of the jaded vet syndrome: "Everything was better back in the day!" "Today's players don't have the right mind set and don't know how to play games right!!! " 

    Sadly, if this is how you feel about the genre, maybe it is time to find a new hobby?

    This here is a prime example of the modern gamer ASSUMING and defending the theme park treadmill they like because it's all there is.

    Did I say anywhere the old way was better? No. Did I say today's gamer's don't know how to play the games right? No. There was plenty that definitely needed upgrading. But there are also PLENTY of elements that defined them as a unique and separate genre from console gaming that have gone extinct in the name of numbers and greed.

    It's possible to have those old elements and new combined and make a decent game.

    I love how people such as you say I and others should just find a new hobby too. If tables were turned, I would not be telling you the same...and the reason is because I am not selfish and everyone is entitled to their opinion and tastes....and because I had what I wanted en mass, doesn't mean I should tell others they can't hope for something they enjoy, or tell them to leave.

    I am absolutely sure if old school MMORPG gamer's invaded console gaming en mass and whined to have them slowed down, more interaction between players, etc, etc and companies listened because they became the majority....long time console players would be up in arms.

     

    Your entire post reads "old time games were better and the ones today suck!" I never told you to find a new hobby. My advice was that if you found today's games so bad, maybe it just means it is time to move on or stick to the old games. just being a realist. Times change and people change. I can't stand today's music so I refuse to buy new albums. I just stick to the oldies.  But you don't see me ranting on forums how today's music sucks and music was better back in the day (it was).

    Look mate, I was in the same boat. Hated today's games and longed for the days of Shadowbane and EQ. But, I had two choices: Quit the hobby I love or find some tolerable modern MMO and make the best of it. I wend with the second option and continue to enjoy the hobby I love. Simple as that. It's a choice. That was all I was offering you. But please, do not let me derail you from your bitter rants. Carry on.

     

    P.S. If some dev decides to make an updated, modern version of Shadowbane... please e-mail me where I can send you a blank check.

     

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member

    but at the same time while learning to accept the difference between what is possible and what simply is, you can have standards that i dont think are unreasonable.

     

    for example, i would love to see a Defiance game with an actual harvesting and crafting system. i dont think im demanding too much there. yet at the same time it would be ridiculous to scream at Defiance and Defiance players that they are getting it all wrong for everyone who plays.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by kakasaki

    P.S. If some dev decides to make an updated, modern version of Shadowbane... please e-mail me where I can send you a blank check.

    chuckle, did you check the Kickstarter list? Usually a few copies of every 'classic' game ever made on that list, at any given time.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • jacktorsjacktors Port St Lucie, FLPosts: 158Member Uncommon

    I think we have gotten past what the OP was trying to say. I believe his/her point was that the current MMORPG's are taking shortcuts via instancing and fetch quests. They are hand-holding their subscribers as to not scare them away. But what initially grabbed MMORPG lovers in the first place, was the simple immersion factor. I think we can all agree that the newer games have a certain lack of player community, far less than our previous MMORPG's. 

    Is it a crime to find like-minds in a MMORPG forum? Maybe that next great game designer will read this forum post and think that these are great points. Obviously, if most of the readers/posters of this topic agree with one another,  well that is something for the game designers to open their eyes to. 

    But to say shut up, stop being grumpy, and go play the games already out there, while you over-look the parts you detest, you are not helping the genre. 

    It is a game designer's job to find what works for the "majority audience" and fill that need. That is marketing 101.  But if these same game designers have no way of knowing what the majority wants, because most of us are "settling" with what is out there, they will have no way to know how to create that next great MMORPG that knocks our virtual socks off. 

  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXPosts: 1,205Member
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
    Originally posted by kakasaki
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

    Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

    All right, joo win (?)

    It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric because it goes against what you like and you are apparently happy with the current trend of the MMORPG genre.

    "Truth" is a pretty subjective thing when it comes to likes/dislikes. May  be "truth" to you but not to many of us.

    I see it as 2 types that are fine with how far off the path the MMORPG genre has gone.

    1) Those that came in with the mass media marketing of WoW from other genres and don't really know what made them what they were prior to nor care. Or..

    2) Old school gamers that want to try and hold onto MMORPG gaming, but don't have the time, or want to dedicate the time needed to play them as they were meant to be played...so have no issue with them de-evolving into console style games to meet their own needs.

    Meant to be played? Pray tell in what manual or holy book of gaming does it state how an MMO is supposed to be played? Ohhh, you mean play it like "YOU" like.... gotcha!  

    All you have to do is look at the history of the MMORPG industry and the gigantic influx of companies trying to make their mark simply due to WoW's huge success of mainstreaming the genre. It's nothing but a quick cash grab now more than making a quality product fans can enjoy for years on end. No more passion put into their games.

    Again, your opinion as many people are happy with the game they currently play.

    This here is a prime example of the jaded vet syndrome: "Everything was better back in the day!" "Today's players don't have the right mind set and don't know how to play games right!!! " 

    Sadly, if this is how you feel about the genre, maybe it is time to find a new hobby?

    Lol, and your the classic case of the personal critical of the person critical of the gaming industry.  

    I don't think the good old days were better in terms what it was or I'd still be playing those same games.  Things were better in a sense that there was more creatively and freedom with what we could play.  Though some of it is because budget cost cause developers to be less risky and another is because some genre didn't exist.  Some genre are tired and dead.  

    But I do other things besides spending endless hours in MMORPG's because they're largely generic and I don't even have the time anymore nor would want to spend endless hours on a game.   But as I said before I'll wait on the sidelines until there is a game that's really worth my investment and I will occasionally talk about it on forums.  If that borthers you maybe you should find a new hobby as well?

    And you are a classic of reading comprehension fail and not reading an entire thread. I could care less if people are critical of the gaming/MMO industry. It affects me not one iota and does not diminish my enjoyment of the hobby one bit. My original post was meant to explain why people feel the old days were better and how insidious nostalgia can be when it comes to memory. My reply to the previous poster was offering some advice that he may be happier moving on if he doesn't "like" the hobby anymore. It was honest friendly advice but I could give a flying f if he takes it or not.

     

    Let me end with the classic "And you are a classic case of personal critic of the personal critic of the personal critic of the gaming industry." See how silly that is? 

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXPosts: 1,205Member
    Originally posted by jacktors

    I think we have gotten past what the OP was trying to say. I believe his/her point was that the current MMORPG's are taking shortcuts via instancing and fetch quests. They are hand-holding their subscribers as to not scare them away. But what initially grabbed MMORPG lovers in the first place, was the simple immersion factor. I think we can all agree that the newer games have a certain lack of player community, far less than our previous MMORPG's. 

    Is it a crime to find like-minds in a MMORPG forum? Maybe that next great game designer will read this forum post and think that these are great points. Obviously, if most of the readers/posters of this topic agree with one another,  well that is something for the game designers to open their eyes to. 

    But to say shut up, stop being grumpy, and go play the games already out there, while you over-look the parts you detest, you are not helping the genre. 

    It is a game designer's job to find what works for the "majority audience" and fill that need. That is marketing 101.  But if these same game designers have no way of knowing what the majority wants, because most of us are "settling" with what is out there, they will have no way to know how to create that next great MMORPG that knocks our virtual socks off. 

    Can we stop with the fallacious arguments that anyone had told anyone to shut-up? For Fs sake. Stop making things up. 

    Now, regarding your post, no we can not all agree that new games lack community. Yes, while you and I may agree, many other see it just fine. It is all opinion.  Also, I am sorry to burst your bubble as it where but most game designers don't bother with forums. Why should day? No one can agree on anything, most posts from jaded gamers go on about how developers today are lazy, greedy, untalented. etc, etc. Why would you listen to someone like that?

    Do you want to know the best way to send a developer a message and shape the genre to what you like? Give you a clue... it isn't posting on forums. Give up? Well it's STOP BUYING GAMES YOU DON"T LIKE! Nothing send a clearer message than that. Like it or not, many people like the current games, pay for current games and devs will keep catering to these people because they are the ones forking over the $$$$. 

    Sorry if it sounds harsh folks, but that is how the real world works.

     

     

     

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

    Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

    All right, joo win (?)

    It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric

    Incidentally, the word "rhetoric" has nothing at all to do with truth or falsity.

    True enough in essence. But seems most use the term when they can't argue the point further. Just as you only quoted that section because it's what you could argue and ignored the rest.

    Mainly, because it's the basis of the guy's argument and it is false. There's no point in arguing the conclusion. If someone says chickens are red and then argues why the red color needs to be changed, the most reasonable response is to remind the person that chickens aren't red.

    What Icewhite posted earlier was rather spot on. However, what's also worthy of note is that you and many others cast these blanket aspersions on developers and then wonder why they don't listen to you. :)

     

     

     

     

    So how can something not based on true or false but rhetoric than suddenly be false?  Again show me what I am saying is false.  

     

    1. I said the gaming/entertainment industry has been consolidated and formulated.  My opinion based on the buying of small companies by large.  Her's opinion is that its "rhetoric

     

    2. I said the MMORPG has largely formulated games based on World of Warcraft which came out in 2004 which is my opinion based on the games I've played.  Her opinion is that it's "rhetoric."

     

    3. I said that I make my statement with my pocketbook.  Is that false?

     

    4. I said I play MMORPG's but I don't spend money on them unless I have a footprint in the world.  Is that false?

     

    5. I listed what I did in my spare time.  Is that false as well?

     

    But you guys have become the classic forum warrior who are here to try to point out flaws in disgruntle, dissatisfied or whatever.  But you guys ALSO always have the option to find something else to do with your time than try to show the disillusioned, delusional, disgruntled or whatever you thinks going on the light.

     

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Canton, OHPosts: 90Member

    @kakasaki

    I Am currently playing 1 MMORPG. Although F2P and heavy steeped in using the cash shop to stay competitive (Although I do not as I am not that into PvP)...it's the only one I found that keeps me interested. And most of that is due to it having a decent community, which is something most now are sparce in having.

     

    Just gonna leave it there because there is no point in continuing the same tired argument any further. Much as VR has said...I'll just continue to wait and see if someone brings out a MMORPG that has open world, epic quests, grouping content, and brings back the journey being important and not the destination. Hopefully EQ Next will bring that....but not holding my breath either....after all...this is SOE we are talking about.

     

    My only fear is if it indeed meets that criteria...the masses don't get it shifted the other way with excessive whine. But again...this is SOE we are talking about. If that happened...all hope is lost and it WILL be one hobby abandoned.

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