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The Power of Being Silenced by other players.

24

Comments

  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Its 20 accounts, a single person can create 20 accounts and silence whoever they want.

    Its exploitable for sure, 20 is too few, but since most instances max out at 20 (other than the city) it makes sense.

    I would have made it like 50 or higher.

    A single person would need to have 20 accounts and game clients running in a single zone.  I believe the reports have to come within a certain time frame.  If you feel wrong targeted you can submit a ticket.  Using silencing to grief someone can get you banned.

    The system actually works well becuase:

    1. It's only works within the range of the channel (zone is area specific, /say is local, etc).

    2. It adds the offending player to the reporters ignore list.  So they reporter will never see the offender again.  If the offender doesn't get silenced then that reporter is also out of the pool of people to continue reports.

    3. It discourages the copy/past 10 second advert spam.  Whether that's good or bad is subjective.

    It's not a perfect system, but it's pretty good.

    You could submit a ticket, but the fact is they dont answer them for days, and moderators in the forum tell you not to talk about your personal punishments, and that they cannot help you, then lock your thread when you post it.

  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,751
    I've been waiting for 11 days for a response to my ticket....
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722

    so Cryptic World first added the foundry so they dont have to add new content ever again and now GMs cant even do their job in game either?

    What a lazy company letting players take over their game with chat moderation and content production while they keep collecting cash from the cash shop.

     

    Good thing i stopped playing early. THese silencing feature sounds good, but the fact that is on the hand of other players is just fubar. That will be exploited so hard the game will suffer from it. I mean come on..... if you dont even want to monitor your own game, why make a game?

     

    get your lazy rear-ends up Cryptic World and manage your own game.





  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    sounds like a great system, they need to put this kind of thing into all MMO's image
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,389
    It's a really good griefing tool for sure....  those of you that think that this is a great tool for the community to "police itself" don't seem to realize the arsehats you want to police can use this system far far more effectively than the non arsehats.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • BlackadderaBlackaddera Member Posts: 69
    Originally posted by BTrayaL
    Originally posted by Blackaddera

    Realy? I'm sorry but if you look at real life for instance, where some ppl can be offended by simple criticism on ones point of view or on ones religion. If you transplant that in game you see a problem arising certainly if you can see what power just 20 ppl can have. Let's say you have 1000 ppl in a city and only 20 are offended by your comment IE2% of the ppl in the city you are banned for 24 hours. Not only general chat, trade chat banned but also you can't access your guildchat nor party chat. Now that is pure censoring and an incursion of freedom of speech.

    Freedom of speech... ugh.. are you saying that if I for example, want to say whatever filth I desire right now, I should, no matter how many people I offend?

    Freedom is something you take lightly, it seems.

    If I am free to say thing, it doesn't mean I should, because I might offend some people. So yea, if I say a racist thing, and only 1 of the people reading this particular thread, in this particular site (think particular chat, particular game), I should be punished.

    What if you're trying to make a serious social comment and I can guarantee you that some ppl will be offended by it  are you happy to be blocked for 24 hours then? Yeah racism is bad but the thing is a racist person will not stop being racist because he's blocked for 24 hours. He'll come back and do the same. And here's the thing even in RL you don't see the racists walking free (for example the KKK) the only way to get rid of those ppl is education. If you block em you're rid of them for the time they are being blocked after that they'll just come back. If on the other hand you block ppl who want to play the game and use the channels the way they ought to be used you lose playerbase and you loose a lot of the game dynamic.

    the steel shines red with enemy blood. It sings of victory, granted by the gods. And as they return bleeding but proud, the horizon burns and the song is ringing LOUD!

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Again 20 accounts logged in, I have 3 accounts that I was able to log in on my laptop concurrently, I also have 2 PCs. I have no desire to test it out, but I am willing to bet that I could log in 20 accounts in PE and randomly silence an Innocent.

    Terrible system.

    Too bad. The 'what if' doom scenario would carry more weight, if you could actually test it.

    It would be good to know if someone (on staff) notices all of these requests originate from the same IP, or not.

    But I suppose they wouldn't be eager for players to know that, either way.

  • SpellforgedSpellforged Member UncommonPosts: 458
    The problem with such a system is that you can use it for evil.  Just take a group of players in a guild or something and they can silence anybody they don't like by simultaneously reporting.  I think the number of players required should be raised to at least 100 reports within a certain time period before the silence kicks in.

    image
  • BlackadderaBlackaddera Member Posts: 69
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Phry
    sounds like a great system, they need to put this kind of thing into all MMO's image

    Again 20 accounts logged in, I have 3 accounts that I was able to log in on my laptop concurrently, I also have 2 PCs. I have no desire to test it out, but I am willing to bet that I could log in 20 accounts in PE and randomly silence an Innocent.

    Terrible system.

    Do you think this can't be tracked and dealt with because I most certainly think it can.  How likely is your scenario going to be successfully executed?  What do you think will happen when 2 people report being wrongfully silenced by the exact same 20 accounts?  What is the overhead in recreating 20 new email accounts completely unassociated with your present IP and online identity?  I totally accept the possibility of this scenario, but I will need to see some concrete evidence that this is a likely and easily executed vector of attack.

    It isn't a perfect system, but it is a better system than unregulated chat or monitoring by one GM's subjective opinion which we don't know they don't have in place already.

    Like I also pointed out above, when you report someone they are added to the reporter's ignore list.  If someone is a chronic reporter pretty soon they will have no one to chat with.  The person being reported will also not be reported by that person again.

    You could eventually end up with a scenario where all the people who are easily irritated have large ignore lists and a quiet channel and people who like to spam a lot can do so because those left to listen don't care about chat spam.  It is in essence a self-correcting system in the long run.

    Yes, it can be tracked but are they tracking it? And if so, if you see that ppl have to wait 11+ days to get a reply on a ticket then the damage is already done. And it's not a self-correcting system. The system allows for abuse in a large way without correction. Look at what damage the banks did to the economy: no regulation equals total abuse. Remember the old addage: Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    the steel shines red with enemy blood. It sings of victory, granted by the gods. And as they return bleeding but proud, the horizon burns and the song is ringing LOUD!

  • PiechunksPiechunks Member Posts: 136

    Leveled to 60 socially (I mostly did the "open world" quests), trolled the general channel.

    I didn't get muted ONCE.

    If you get muted, it is likely you were spamming, or REALLY going over the deep end (hard to think of what you'd type to make that many people hate you at once).

    Sometimes people were even deliberately racist, or talking about obscene topics, but I can't recall anybody ever getting muted.

     

    The community, for the most part, is pretty solid. I don't see abuse of this as a real issue.

     

  • eye_meye_m Member UncommonPosts: 3,317
    Everything can be exploited.  Some people might get silenced unfairly, but many will be silenced fairly.  In one had you have the ability to talk with people without having to sift through recruitment noise or bad jokes, and on the other had you have the right to recruit and advertise. Now take the second hand and drop your right to advertise and recruit, and instead put a women breast.  Now that's much better isn't it.  See, sometimes the ability to recruit and advertise just isn't that important.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

    I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.

  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Originally posted by Piechunks

    Leveled to 60 socially (I mostly did the "open world" quests), trolled the general channel.

    I didn't get muted ONCE.

    If you get muted, it is likely you were spamming, or REALLY going over the deep end (hard to think of what you'd type to make that many people hate you at once).

    Sometimes people were even deliberately racist, or talking about obscene topics, but I can't recall anybody ever getting muted.

     

    The community, for the most part, is pretty solid. I don't see abuse of this as a real issue.

     

    If you are telling the truth, it probably means that people trolling in game are not being silenced while honest gamers are, shows signs of systemic abuse then by trolls or malicious people.

    Heres a few of the links to PW forum where they talk about the abuse of the system.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?287321-Verbally-abused-then-punished-for-it

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?285702-NW-Silenced-How-the-what-the-zomg!-What-happend

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?281261-Ban-on-chat-what-the-hell!

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?279362-Flagged-as-a-spammer-24h-Chat-Ban

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?273562-Getting-muted-for-24-hours-from-asking-for-groups-in-zone

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?273621-Muted-for-24-hrs

    The list goes on and on, but you get the point. 

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?260622-Why-So-Serious

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?260512-Banned-again!

     

  • PiechunksPiechunks Member Posts: 136
    Originally posted by fistorm

     

    1. you just admited you were a troll.  2. if you happen to be telling the truth by chance, means that people trolling are not being silenced while honost gamers are, shows signs of systemic abuse then by trolls or malicious people.

    Heres a few of the links to PW forum where they talk about the abuse of the system.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?287321-Verbally-abused-then-punished-for-it

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?285702-NW-Silenced-How-the-what-the-zomg!-What-happend

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?281261-Ban-on-chat-what-the-hell!

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?279362-Flagged-as-a-spammer-24h-Chat-Ban

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?273562-Getting-muted-for-24-hours-from-asking-for-groups-in-zone

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?273621-Muted-for-24-hrs

    The list goes on and on, but you get the point. 

    So much for being honest....

    Who's to say that those posts weren't made by people spamming?

    Come to think of it, I saw few people spamming the chat for anything. I really didn't see any verbal abuse either.

    Maybe things are working as intended?

    I personally never reported anybody, since I never had reason to. Once again, I think the system in-place seems to be working for the most part.

     

    I also haven't played the game for about a week, so maybe they decreased the necessary people flagging, or something around those lines as I don't recall that many threads popping up.

    Of course I'm only one person, so I can only give my worthless anecdotal evidence, just like the sum of those 6 threads.

     

  • DibdabsDibdabs Member RarePosts: 3,203
    Originally posted by fistorm

    Heres a few of the links to PW forum where they talk about the abuse of the system... [snip]

    Funny how, sooner or later, it always emerges that they WERE actually spamming something but "not much, guv'nor, not really."

    I have neither sympathy for them or any real interest in listening to their never-ending stream of evasions and excuses.  They got a ban.  All is well with the world.

  • DemalisDemalis Member Posts: 134

    Well, I am not sure how many players are on a server, chat zone or what ever the governing factor of this "rule" is. But just to use numbers say 1000 people at 20 reports = ban, 2% of the total population is not a good number to give the power of a ban hammer to. However lets say there are only 100 people in the affected channel, then 20 reports = 20% of the games population was offended, and by all rights ban away.

    Just imagine if mmorpg.com was automated in such a way, it would be a ghost town.

  • StonesDKStonesDK Member UncommonPosts: 1,805
    Originally posted by fistorm

    So I'm sure you probably played alot of mmo's where they allow you to report spam on goldsellers. We'll this game has a feature that allows only 20 players out of thousands report you as spam and be able to silence you for 24 hours.  You wont be able to use say chat, guild chat, party chat, or zone chat for 24 hours straight.

     

     

    So far I seen my friends guildmaster be silenced for 24 by the report spam feature for just shouting for guild recruitments, and quit.

    Seen my friend shout out a harmless joke and be silenced for 24 hours, then quit.

    Seen people post on NW forums about shouting for groups and being silenced for 24 hours, then quiting.

     

     

    So what does everyone think about the chat silence system, should other players be allowed to go around silencing other players, or should that be a GM's duty?

    If people quit because they are butt'hurt by being silenced for 24 hours then great. If you can't emotionally handle something so benign then I sure as hell would rather they stay gone. People like that has a tendency to rage over stupid things

  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    Originally posted by Blackaddera
    Now that is pure censoring and an incursion of freedom of speech.

    Unless it is your government doing it... NO it is not treading on your freedom of speech.

     

    As a matter of fact freedom of speech have very little power in private forums, such a game owned by a entity such a company.

     

    But besides that the correct way of changing this issue is not to whine on a third party forum but rather try to communicate your ideas to the developers or at least on the official forum.

    This have been a good conversation

  • BlackadderaBlackaddera Member Posts: 69
    Originally posted by tawess
    Originally posted by Blackaddera
    Now that is pure censoring and an incursion of freedom of speech.

    Unless it is your government doing it... NO it is not treading on your freedom of speech.

     

    As a matter of fact freedom of speech have very little power in private forums, such a game owned by a entity such a company.

     

    But besides that the correct way of changing this issue is not to whine on a third party forum but rather try to communicate your ideas to the developers or at least on the official forum.

    I'm not playing Neverwinter mate and btw if a discussion is started on a 3rd-party forum than any Tom Dick and Harry have a right to post their opinions about it. As you are doing aswell. And BTW having an opinion and defending it with real arguments isn't whining. And not only governments can tread on freedom of speech, take a good look at religions or organistions with money.

    the steel shines red with enemy blood. It sings of victory, granted by the gods. And as they return bleeding but proud, the horizon burns and the song is ringing LOUD!

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    Originally posted by Blackaddera
    And not only governments can tread on freedom of speech, take a good look at religions or organistions with money.

    :sigh: We have to note, every time this discussion (or any like it) comes up, that freedom of speech doesn't always (indeed often does not) apply in privately owned games.

    Which inevitably leads to 15 pages of arguments about that (rather than the original topic).

  • kovahkovah Member UncommonPosts: 692

    /oblig

     

    There's a Zone Chat?

     

    /oblig, carry on.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916

    I think the the chat ban is fantastic !

    Wish more games had it, tbh.

     

    As long as there's some monitoring and control on the possible misuse of the activity (i.e. a player must not be allowed to endlessly "report spam" just because they want to grief general chat), I see no problem with it at all.

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,389
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Phry
    sounds like a great system, they need to put this kind of thing into all MMO's image

    Again 20 accounts logged in, I have 3 accounts that I was able to log in on my laptop concurrently, I also have 2 PCs. I have no desire to test it out, but I am willing to bet that I could log in 20 accounts in PE and randomly silence an Innocent.

    Terrible system.

    Do you think this can't be tracked and dealt with because I most certainly think it can.  How likely is your scenario going to be successfully executed?  What do you think will happen when 2 people report being wrongfully silenced by the exact same 20 accounts?  What is the overhead in recreating 20 new email accounts completely unassociated with your present IP and online identity?  I totally accept the possibility of this scenario, but I will need to see some concrete evidence that this is a likely and easily executed vector of attack.

    It isn't a perfect system, but it is a better system than unregulated chat or monitoring by one GM's subjective opinion which we don't know they don't have in place already.

    Like I also pointed out above, when you report someone they are added to the reporter's ignore list.  If someone is a chronic reporter pretty soon they will have no one to chat with.  The person being reported will also not be reported by that person again.

    You could eventually end up with a scenario where all the people who are easily irritated have large ignore lists and a quiet channel and people who like to spam a lot can do so because those left to listen don't care about chat spam.  It is in essence a self-correcting system in the long run.

     

    Torvaldr if you seriously think Cryptic has the time or man power to track this you are kidding yourself, they have much much bigger fish to fry.   Do you even frequent the Neveriwnter forums?  IF you did you would see the general reply to such threads is :

    So sorry to bad, suck it up its only temporary or send in a ticket that will be closed or viewed 2 weeks+ down the line. LoL

     

    Personally idc how that works like I have said elsewhere this small chat problem is the least of their worries and they need to fix the bigger issues with the game before they even think about this.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • Pandaman102Pandaman102 Member Posts: 94

    I'm surprised it took this long for someone to comment on the chat ban system, as it's been something people have been complaining in CO and STO for a while now; the chat server is shared for all games, so theoretically mutes extend across all games (and people from other games can mute you). It was also something implemented before Cryptic games went F2P, back when accountability for abusing the system was still possible.

     

    Originally it was intended to be a feature for players to police gold sellers and functions like this:

    1. You report the player for spamming.
    2. The system logs the report and automatically puts the player on your ignore list.
    3. The system then adds to a counter* in the reported player's account for each person who ignores him.
    4. Once the counter reaches 20, the player is muted from all channels for 24 hours.

    *This counter resets once every 24 hours; the counter also goes down one if a person who ignored the player removes them from the ignore list, so one person can't ignore/unignore a person 20 times to mute them; once the player is muted they remain muted even if everyone unignores him.

     

    The obvious flaw in the system is that people aren't being muted for being reported, they're being muted for being ignored. I can understand the sentiment that people like spammers to be muted for 24 hours, but the problem is not everyone is aware that putting people on the ignore list triggers the same thing; it's much easier for people who weren't spamming or actually saying anything offensive to become muted simply because 20 people decided "Oh, I don't want to listen to this guy because [insert arbitrary reason here], I'll put him on ignore him for now".

     

    Of course, you can avoid this problem (I've never been muted) simply by avoiding Zone chat and talking only with guildmates/friends. Cryptic has already stated the feature is working as intended and it's too integrated into the system to modify, so the only thing you can do as a player is modify your own chat behavior (or find another game that doesn't discourage socialization).

  • BlueTiger33BlueTiger33 Member Posts: 158

    I'm stepping on broken glass here but kids from 1 to 29/30-ish are what we call the "entitlement generation" you can +/- however many years you want but it's still the same. So...that being said these same gamers generally freeload due to them not having jobs and / or no disposable income for whatever reason they've decided in their lives.

     

    So, that being said they are able to jump free-willy from game to game and have become what we call "disposable gamers." The F2P freeloaders that would never spend a penny on your game.

     

    Now think of this type of person and the perceived power he/she could get through silencing someone for 24 hours. Do you think they wouldn't leach onto this system in a heartbeat?

     

    Just my 2 cents.

    image

    I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
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  • BanquettoBanquetto Member UncommonPosts: 1,037

    It's a fantastic idea BUT it really needs Neverwinter to have more dedicated channels than just zone chat.

    If there was a Trade channel and an LFG channel I'd be much more supportive of this system.

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