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The Power of Being Silenced by other players.

24

Comments

  • BlackadderaBlackaddera BruggePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by BTrayaL
    Originally posted by fistorm

    So I'm sure you probably played alot of mmo's where they allow you to report spam on goldsellers. We'll this game has a feature that allows only 20 players out of thousands report you as spam and be able to silence you for 24 hours.  You wont be able to use say chat, guild chat, party chat, or zone chat for 24 hours straight.

     

     

    So far I seen my friends guildmaster be silenced for 24 by the report spam feature for just shouting for guild recruitments, and quit.

    Seen my friend shout out a harmless joke and be silenced for 24 hours, then quit.

    Seen people post on NW forums about shouting for groups and being silenced for 24 hours, then quiting.

     

     

    So what does everyone think about the chat silence system, should other players be allowed to go around silencing other players, or should that be a GM's duty?

    I love it! And if 20 people are bothered at the same time, then something is wrong, don't you think?

    Just recruiting? A harmless joke? Who says it was harmless, you?

    The sistem is working as intended, and it's brilliant. Reduces the need for human supervision on reports. Love it :)

    Realy? I'm sorry but if you look at real life for instance, where some ppl can be offended by simple criticism on ones point of view or on ones religion. If you transplant that in game you see a problem arising certainly if you can see what power just 20 ppl can have. Let's say you have 1000 ppl in a city and only 20 are offended by your comment IE2% of the ppl in the city you are banned for 24 hours. Not only general chat, trade chat banned but also you can't access your guildchat nor party chat. Now that is pure censoring and an incursion of freedom of speech.

    the steel shines red with enemy blood. It sings of victory, granted by the gods. And as they return bleeding but proud, the horizon burns and the song is ringing LOUD!

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Dibdabs
    Originally posted by Blackaddera

    I don't think you comprehend. only 20 ppl on the server can silence you. 

    Twenty+ people in that zone or instance, not the entire server as a whole.  I don't see Protector's Enclave chat out in the wilds, for example.

    Still one can create 20 accounts all logged into Protectors Enclave and silence whoever they want. 

    Well, I don't think I'll take that postulated "what if" seriously, thanks.

  • fistormfistorm Smalltown, WIPosts: 836Member Common
    Originally posted by revslave

    Hello

     

    Well i guess this is as a good of way as any to save money by not hiring moderators.

     

    Nevertheless this is a system that has the potential for abuse. Any guild with 20 members can effectively silence any one individual or group of individuals.  Arguably if an individual wanted they could set up multiple accounts and lower this threshold.  For better or worse my time in game has been very limited , and i did not look at chat much, are there multiple channels, and can extra channels be created by players?  If not this should be implemented quickly.  

     One a side note i find it funny that LFG spam is now considered an offense, when it seems like a few years ago people where calling dungeon finders the end of the social MMO. 

    Welcome Home

    Rev.

     

    There is one public chat channel called Zone, and Protectors Enclave is the main area people do thier shouts in with thousands of people because its the main starting Zone with the auction, banker, stores, companion store, ect.

  • BTrayaLBTrayaL BucharestPosts: 595Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Blackaddera

    Realy? I'm sorry but if you look at real life for instance, where some ppl can be offended by simple criticism on ones point of view or on ones religion. If you transplant that in game you see a problem arising certainly if you can see what power just 20 ppl can have. Let's say you have 1000 ppl in a city and only 20 are offended by your comment IE2% of the ppl in the city you are banned for 24 hours. Not only general chat, trade chat banned but also you can't access your guildchat nor party chat. Now that is pure censoring and an incursion of freedom of speech.

    Freedom of speech... ugh.. are you saying that if I for example, want to say whatever filth I desire right now, I should, no matter how many people I offend?

    Freedom is something you take lightly, it seems.

    If I am free to say thing, it doesn't mean I should, because I might offend some people. So yea, if I say a racist thing, and only 1 of the people reading this particular thread, in this particular site (think particular chat, particular game), I should be punished.

    image
  • fistormfistorm Smalltown, WIPosts: 836Member Common
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Its 20 accounts, a single person can create 20 accounts and silence whoever they want.

    Its exploitable for sure, 20 is too few, but since most instances max out at 20 (other than the city) it makes sense.

    I would have made it like 50 or higher.

    A single person would need to have 20 accounts and game clients running in a single zone.  I believe the reports have to come within a certain time frame.  If you feel wrong targeted you can submit a ticket.  Using silencing to grief someone can get you banned.

    The system actually works well becuase:

    1. It's only works within the range of the channel (zone is area specific, /say is local, etc).

    2. It adds the offending player to the reporters ignore list.  So they reporter will never see the offender again.  If the offender doesn't get silenced then that reporter is also out of the pool of people to continue reports.

    3. It discourages the copy/past 10 second advert spam.  Whether that's good or bad is subjective.

    It's not a perfect system, but it's pretty good.

    You could submit a ticket, but the fact is they dont answer them for days, and moderators in the forum tell you not to talk about your personal punishments, and that they cannot help you, then lock your thread when you post it.

  • IkedaIkeda Largo, FLPosts: 2,204Member Uncommon
    I've been waiting for 11 days for a response to my ticket....

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,766Member Uncommon

    so Cryptic World first added the foundry so they dont have to add new content ever again and now GMs cant even do their job in game either?

    What a lazy company letting players take over their game with chat moderation and content production while they keep collecting cash from the cash shop.

     

    Good thing i stopped playing early. THese silencing feature sounds good, but the fact that is on the hand of other players is just fubar. That will be exploited so hard the game will suffer from it. I mean come on..... if you dont even want to monitor your own game, why make a game?

     

    get your lazy rear-ends up Cryptic World and manage your own game.

    image
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon
    sounds like a great system, they need to put this kind of thing into all MMO's image
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,112Member Uncommon
    It's a really good griefing tool for sure....  those of you that think that this is a great tool for the community to "police itself" don't seem to realize the arsehats you want to police can use this system far far more effectively than the non arsehats.

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  • BlackadderaBlackaddera BruggePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by BTrayaL
    Originally posted by Blackaddera

    Realy? I'm sorry but if you look at real life for instance, where some ppl can be offended by simple criticism on ones point of view or on ones religion. If you transplant that in game you see a problem arising certainly if you can see what power just 20 ppl can have. Let's say you have 1000 ppl in a city and only 20 are offended by your comment IE2% of the ppl in the city you are banned for 24 hours. Not only general chat, trade chat banned but also you can't access your guildchat nor party chat. Now that is pure censoring and an incursion of freedom of speech.

    Freedom of speech... ugh.. are you saying that if I for example, want to say whatever filth I desire right now, I should, no matter how many people I offend?

    Freedom is something you take lightly, it seems.

    If I am free to say thing, it doesn't mean I should, because I might offend some people. So yea, if I say a racist thing, and only 1 of the people reading this particular thread, in this particular site (think particular chat, particular game), I should be punished.

    What if you're trying to make a serious social comment and I can guarantee you that some ppl will be offended by it  are you happy to be blocked for 24 hours then? Yeah racism is bad but the thing is a racist person will not stop being racist because he's blocked for 24 hours. He'll come back and do the same. And here's the thing even in RL you don't see the racists walking free (for example the KKK) the only way to get rid of those ppl is education. If you block em you're rid of them for the time they are being blocked after that they'll just come back. If on the other hand you block ppl who want to play the game and use the channels the way they ought to be used you lose playerbase and you loose a lot of the game dynamic.

    the steel shines red with enemy blood. It sings of victory, granted by the gods. And as they return bleeding but proud, the horizon burns and the song is ringing LOUD!

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,195Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Its 20 accounts, a single person can create 20 accounts and silence whoever they want.

    Its exploitable for sure, 20 is too few, but since most instances max out at 20 (other than the city) it makes sense.

    I would have made it like 50 or higher.

    A single person would need to have 20 accounts and game clients running in a single zone.  I believe the reports have to come within a certain time frame.  If you feel wrong targeted you can submit a ticket.  Using silencing to grief someone can get you banned.

    The system actually works well becuase:

    1. It's only works within the range of the channel (zone is area specific, /say is local, etc).

    2. It adds the offending player to the reporters ignore list.  So they reporter will never see the offender again.  If the offender doesn't get silenced then that reporter is also out of the pool of people to continue reports.

    3. It discourages the copy/past 10 second advert spam.  Whether that's good or bad is subjective.

    It's not a perfect system, but it's pretty good.

    You could submit a ticket, but the fact is they dont answer them for days, and moderators in the forum tell you not to talk about your personal punishments, and that they cannot help you, then lock your thread when you post it.

    Yep, ticket load is heavy now.  It should be shorter.  It should always be shorter, but it's not.  Welcome to mmo launches.  I know it sucks, but I don't really have an answer to make the entire genre more efficient at launch time.

    You know it's not okay to discuss account moderation on any official forum.  Don't you get that?  How could you even be surprised.  Don't be surprised if they don't answer in your favor either if you were repeating copy/past messages every 10 seconds for guild recruitment or trade.

    The ban is for 24 hours.  If you are repeatedly targeted after those 24 hours for normal chat then you really do have a valid complaint.  If, on the other hand, you are belligerently going back to chat spamming then you should probably just move on.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,506Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry
    sounds like a great system, they need to put this kind of thing into all MMO's image

    Again 20 accounts logged in, I have 3 accounts that I was able to log in on my laptop concurrently, I also have 2 PCs. I have no desire to test it out, but I am willing to bet that I could log in 20 accounts in PE and randomly silence an Innocent.

    Terrible system.

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Again 20 accounts logged in, I have 3 accounts that I was able to log in on my laptop concurrently, I also have 2 PCs. I have no desire to test it out, but I am willing to bet that I could log in 20 accounts in PE and randomly silence an Innocent.

    Terrible system.

    Too bad. The 'what if' doom scenario would carry more weight, if you could actually test it.

    It would be good to know if someone (on staff) notices all of these requests originate from the same IP, or not.

    But I suppose they wouldn't be eager for players to know that, either way.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,195Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Phry
    sounds like a great system, they need to put this kind of thing into all MMO's image

    Again 20 accounts logged in, I have 3 accounts that I was able to log in on my laptop concurrently, I also have 2 PCs. I have no desire to test it out, but I am willing to bet that I could log in 20 accounts in PE and randomly silence an Innocent.

    Terrible system.

    Do you think this can't be tracked and dealt with because I most certainly think it can.  How likely is your scenario going to be successfully executed?  What do you think will happen when 2 people report being wrongfully silenced by the exact same 20 accounts?  What is the overhead in recreating 20 new email accounts completely unassociated with your present IP and online identity?  I totally accept the possibility of this scenario, but I will need to see some concrete evidence that this is a likely and easily executed vector of attack.

    It isn't a perfect system, but it is a better system than unregulated chat or monitoring by one GM's subjective opinion which we don't know they don't have in place already.

    Like I also pointed out above, when you report someone they are added to the reporter's ignore list.  If someone is a chronic reporter pretty soon they will have no one to chat with.  The person being reported will also not be reported by that person again.

    You could eventually end up with a scenario where all the people who are easily irritated have large ignore lists and a quiet channel and people who like to spam a lot can do so because those left to listen don't care about chat spam.  It is in essence a self-correcting system in the long run.

  • SpellforgedSpellforged Belvidere, ILPosts: 458Member
    The problem with such a system is that you can use it for evil.  Just take a group of players in a guild or something and they can silence anybody they don't like by simultaneously reporting.  I think the number of players required should be raised to at least 100 reports within a certain time period before the silence kicks in.

    image
  • BlackadderaBlackaddera BruggePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Phry
    sounds like a great system, they need to put this kind of thing into all MMO's image

    Again 20 accounts logged in, I have 3 accounts that I was able to log in on my laptop concurrently, I also have 2 PCs. I have no desire to test it out, but I am willing to bet that I could log in 20 accounts in PE and randomly silence an Innocent.

    Terrible system.

    Do you think this can't be tracked and dealt with because I most certainly think it can.  How likely is your scenario going to be successfully executed?  What do you think will happen when 2 people report being wrongfully silenced by the exact same 20 accounts?  What is the overhead in recreating 20 new email accounts completely unassociated with your present IP and online identity?  I totally accept the possibility of this scenario, but I will need to see some concrete evidence that this is a likely and easily executed vector of attack.

    It isn't a perfect system, but it is a better system than unregulated chat or monitoring by one GM's subjective opinion which we don't know they don't have in place already.

    Like I also pointed out above, when you report someone they are added to the reporter's ignore list.  If someone is a chronic reporter pretty soon they will have no one to chat with.  The person being reported will also not be reported by that person again.

    You could eventually end up with a scenario where all the people who are easily irritated have large ignore lists and a quiet channel and people who like to spam a lot can do so because those left to listen don't care about chat spam.  It is in essence a self-correcting system in the long run.

    Yes, it can be tracked but are they tracking it? And if so, if you see that ppl have to wait 11+ days to get a reply on a ticket then the damage is already done. And it's not a self-correcting system. The system allows for abuse in a large way without correction. Look at what damage the banks did to the economy: no regulation equals total abuse. Remember the old addage: Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    the steel shines red with enemy blood. It sings of victory, granted by the gods. And as they return bleeding but proud, the horizon burns and the song is ringing LOUD!

  • PiechunksPiechunks ProvincePosts: 136Member

    Leveled to 60 socially (I mostly did the "open world" quests), trolled the general channel.

    I didn't get muted ONCE.

    If you get muted, it is likely you were spamming, or REALLY going over the deep end (hard to think of what you'd type to make that many people hate you at once).

    Sometimes people were even deliberately racist, or talking about obscene topics, but I can't recall anybody ever getting muted.

     

    The community, for the most part, is pretty solid. I don't see abuse of this as a real issue.

     

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon
    Everything can be exploited.  Some people might get silenced unfairly, but many will be silenced fairly.  In one had you have the ability to talk with people without having to sift through recruitment noise or bad jokes, and on the other had you have the right to recruit and advertise. Now take the second hand and drop your right to advertise and recruit, and instead put a women breast.  Now that's much better isn't it.  See, sometimes the ability to recruit and advertise just isn't that important.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • fistormfistorm Smalltown, WIPosts: 836Member Common
    Originally posted by Piechunks

    Leveled to 60 socially (I mostly did the "open world" quests), trolled the general channel.

    I didn't get muted ONCE.

    If you get muted, it is likely you were spamming, or REALLY going over the deep end (hard to think of what you'd type to make that many people hate you at once).

    Sometimes people were even deliberately racist, or talking about obscene topics, but I can't recall anybody ever getting muted.

     

    The community, for the most part, is pretty solid. I don't see abuse of this as a real issue.

     

    If you are telling the truth, it probably means that people trolling in game are not being silenced while honest gamers are, shows signs of systemic abuse then by trolls or malicious people.

    Heres a few of the links to PW forum where they talk about the abuse of the system.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?287321-Verbally-abused-then-punished-for-it

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?285702-NW-Silenced-How-the-what-the-zomg!-What-happend

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?281261-Ban-on-chat-what-the-hell!

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?279362-Flagged-as-a-spammer-24h-Chat-Ban

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?273562-Getting-muted-for-24-hours-from-asking-for-groups-in-zone

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?273621-Muted-for-24-hrs

    The list goes on and on, but you get the point. 

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?260622-Why-So-Serious

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?260512-Banned-again!

     

  • PiechunksPiechunks ProvincePosts: 136Member
    Originally posted by fistorm

     

    1. you just admited you were a troll.  2. if you happen to be telling the truth by chance, means that people trolling are not being silenced while honost gamers are, shows signs of systemic abuse then by trolls or malicious people.

    Heres a few of the links to PW forum where they talk about the abuse of the system.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?287321-Verbally-abused-then-punished-for-it

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?285702-NW-Silenced-How-the-what-the-zomg!-What-happend

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?281261-Ban-on-chat-what-the-hell!

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?279362-Flagged-as-a-spammer-24h-Chat-Ban

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?273562-Getting-muted-for-24-hours-from-asking-for-groups-in-zone

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?273621-Muted-for-24-hrs

    The list goes on and on, but you get the point. 

    So much for being honest....

    Who's to say that those posts weren't made by people spamming?

    Come to think of it, I saw few people spamming the chat for anything. I really didn't see any verbal abuse either.

    Maybe things are working as intended?

    I personally never reported anybody, since I never had reason to. Once again, I think the system in-place seems to be working for the most part.

     

    I also haven't played the game for about a week, so maybe they decreased the necessary people flagging, or something around those lines as I don't recall that many threads popping up.

    Of course I'm only one person, so I can only give my worthless anecdotal evidence, just like the sum of those 6 threads.

     

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fistorm

    Heres a few of the links to PW forum where they talk about the abuse of the system... [snip]

    Funny how, sooner or later, it always emerges that they WERE actually spamming something but "not much, guv'nor, not really."

    I have neither sympathy for them or any real interest in listening to their never-ending stream of evasions and excuses.  They got a ban.  All is well with the world.

  • DemalisDemalis Drumheller, ABPosts: 134Member

    Well, I am not sure how many players are on a server, chat zone or what ever the governing factor of this "rule" is. But just to use numbers say 1000 people at 20 reports = ban, 2% of the total population is not a good number to give the power of a ban hammer to. However lets say there are only 100 people in the affected channel, then 20 reports = 20% of the games population was offended, and by all rights ban away.

    Just imagine if mmorpg.com was automated in such a way, it would be a ghost town.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by fistorm

    So I'm sure you probably played alot of mmo's where they allow you to report spam on goldsellers. We'll this game has a feature that allows only 20 players out of thousands report you as spam and be able to silence you for 24 hours.  You wont be able to use say chat, guild chat, party chat, or zone chat for 24 hours straight.

     

     

    So far I seen my friends guildmaster be silenced for 24 by the report spam feature for just shouting for guild recruitments, and quit.

    Seen my friend shout out a harmless joke and be silenced for 24 hours, then quit.

    Seen people post on NW forums about shouting for groups and being silenced for 24 hours, then quiting.

     

     

    So what does everyone think about the chat silence system, should other players be allowed to go around silencing other players, or should that be a GM's duty?

    If people quit because they are butt'hurt by being silenced for 24 hours then great. If you can't emotionally handle something so benign then I sure as hell would rather they stay gone. People like that has a tendency to rage over stupid things

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,532Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Blackaddera
    Now that is pure censoring and an incursion of freedom of speech.

    Unless it is your government doing it... NO it is not treading on your freedom of speech.

     

    As a matter of fact freedom of speech have very little power in private forums, such a game owned by a entity such a company.

     

    But besides that the correct way of changing this issue is not to whine on a third party forum but rather try to communicate your ideas to the developers or at least on the official forum.

  • BlackadderaBlackaddera BruggePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by tawess
    Originally posted by Blackaddera
    Now that is pure censoring and an incursion of freedom of speech.

    Unless it is your government doing it... NO it is not treading on your freedom of speech.

     

    As a matter of fact freedom of speech have very little power in private forums, such a game owned by a entity such a company.

     

    But besides that the correct way of changing this issue is not to whine on a third party forum but rather try to communicate your ideas to the developers or at least on the official forum.

    I'm not playing Neverwinter mate and btw if a discussion is started on a 3rd-party forum than any Tom Dick and Harry have a right to post their opinions about it. As you are doing aswell. And BTW having an opinion and defending it with real arguments isn't whining. And not only governments can tread on freedom of speech, take a good look at religions or organistions with money.

    the steel shines red with enemy blood. It sings of victory, granted by the gods. And as they return bleeding but proud, the horizon burns and the song is ringing LOUD!

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