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MMO and MMORPG means?

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  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,751Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    MMORPG came first, then it got shortened to MMO. I think they both meant the same thing for a long time because there were no examples of anything except MMORPG.

    Now, I think MMO is the umbrella under which MMORPG rests, along with MMOFPS, MMORTS and MMO{undefined}. In order for something to be an MMO, it needs to be part of a group under the MMO umbrella. If it's not one of those MMOxxx things, then it's not an MMO. Make sense?

    I think the key defining feature of MMORPGs and by extension MMOs is a persistent, shared world. So MOBAs and D3 are not MMOs.

    I also think this is going to change as people apply the MMO moniker to more stuff. If they apply it to MOBAs and D3 enough times, and accept that they fall under the MMO definition, then the definition of MMO will change to accommodate D3 and MOBAs. The persistent, shared world requirement will get dropped and it will be enough that all the people share the game or can be online at the same time.

    This isn't a bad or good thing, this is just how language works. It's in a constant state of slowly changing to suite the needs of the people using it. *shrug* MMOs are Dead! Long Live MMOs!

    Personally I take this approach:

    1. The acronyms are composed of words.
    2. Those words have meaning.
    3. Their meaning is simple and pretty frickin' clear.
    Which results in:
    • MMOs are an online game where an unusually large number of players inhabit the same game space together.
    • MMORPGs are (videogame) role-playing games which are MMOs.
    So while sometimes "MMO" works fine as shorthand for MMORPGs (because the comments aren't specific to the RPG type of MMO), it's a less specific term.
     
    It's like if you asked your friends to play "ball".  Baseball?  Football?  Basketball? Most of the time it's not a big deal, but the full name removes all doubt.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,301Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by filmoret

    MMO=Massive Multiplayer Online

    MMORPG=Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game

    League of Legends is an example of MMO  there are literally thousands of players, however you will only encounter 10 at a time.

    World of Warcraft is MMORPG because you got the roleplaying aspect added to the thousands of players.

    World of Warcraft is IMO not very different from League of Legends. Okay, you see 100s of players in the capitals, but there's no real interaction. All you see are about 5 or 25 players at a time in a (random) dungeon.

    If you want a real MMORPG you should look at the (old) Asian 'grind' titles. There you have your MMORPG where you have no or limited instances and you see 100s of players running around in the real world and you actually have to team up with other players to get things accomplished...

    ...sadly, Lineage II used to be like this and now only has this feature from level 90 and up (still takes ages to hit max though :p)

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  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 774Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by filmoret

    Seen a lot of people who get these definitions all mixed up. 

    MMO=Massive Multiplayer Online

    MMORPG=Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game

     

    Don't know if there is a 100% definition of what Massive is I'd say more then 1k players but doesn't really matter.

     

    League of Legends is an example of MMO  there are literally thousands of players, however you will only encounter 10 at a time.

    World of Warcraft is MMORPG because you got the roleplaying aspect added to the thousands of players.

     

    Lots of people are very confused about these terms, I just want to help clear things up and there should never be arguments about silly technicalities of word meanings.  Everyone here would like to read fresh ideas from intelligent minds and not lose track by beating dead horses with meaningless conversations about technical word meanings.

    Ok, so these are your opinions, not fact.  10 People at a time does not an MMO make, in my opinion.  Good post for starting a conversation about the topic, but you are by no means the final say.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,927Member Uncommon

    For me...

     

    MMORPG - Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game with  several hundred (or more) persistent characters in the SAME CONNECTED WORLD at the same time.  Anyone can walk to anyone, at any time.

     

    MMO - Online multiplayer game with publisher run servers, different than FPS games which have servers run by players.  All it indicates is the networking framework.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,751Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZombieKen

    For me... 

    MMORPG - Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game with  several hundred (or more) persistent characters in the SAME CONNECTED WORLD at the same time.  Anyone can walk to anyone, at any time. 

    MMO - Online multiplayer game with publisher run servers, different than FPS games which have servers run by players.  All it indicates is the networking framework. 

    So you think COD:Modern Warfare is an MMO.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    No because cod and battlefield feature matches on a timer that you use a lobby to enter. Not the same thing as planetside which is a mmo, where its a fully persistent world just like wow or gw2 or whatever.
  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon
    I've been playing this awesome MMO on my iPad. It's called Bejewelled.. Millions of players, apparently. You can compete against your friends on a leaderboard and all! Great MMO!!
  • SloFreakSloFreak VrhnikaPosts: 5Member

    MMORPG - Like another user said before, it came out first. It means a game world with more players than your normal multiplayer game. Years ago multiplayer games only supported max of 32 players some multiplayer games even less.

    Game dose not need to have players in your sight but as long as the game world in which you play has more than 32+ (in todays standards it should be 100+) gamers online It is considered a MMORPG

    It also means Role Playing Game. This counts any virtual character that your controlling, because your role playing as warrior, healer, archer, mage, dwarf, elf and so on...

    Is LOL considered RPG? Yes your role playing as a character in a virtual world. Any game that you actually have a control over a character in a virtual world is a role playing game.

    Is LOL a MMO? I don't think so because it has lobby's with less than 32 players in each one.

    Is LOL a MO (multiplayer online). YES

    Is WoW an MMORPG? Yes it has more than a 100+ players in the game world even if you don't see them in your line of sight. But they are still on there in the same game world.

  • filmoretfilmoret Palm Bay, FLPosts: 509Member Common
    So according to the expert community we officially only have 1 MMO that is not an MMORPG.  Which Makes me realize that having any decent conversation on these forums is not possible.  Please give me a list of MMO's that are not MMORPGs because so far there is only 1 that has been listed and if there is only 1 then why in the world is the freaking term MMO used all the time?
  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,554Member Uncommon
    Idk but I get offended when someone tells me IMVU is an mmorpg.  I have no idea why this makes me want to polish weaponry and start slathering like a diseased animal.  I need a shrink.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Film
    More than one

    Planetside
    Planetside 2
    Ww2 online
    End of nations
    Second life
    A whole bunch of Asian Mmorts too
  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon

    I pity people who do not understand the simple definition of MMO. To wander around in life without even being able to grasp the simplest of things. To think LoL (which I enjoy), is an MMO is against what the developers and community believe. It also goes against the straightforward indisputable definition of what MMO means. I won't even delve into the topic further.

    I must reiterate though, we should have pity for these people. If something so simple as "MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE" is beyond their comprehension, then we must assume that other simple things in life are also out of their reach. I hope these people are not allowed to drive.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by filmoret
    So according to the expert community we officially only have 1 MMO that is not an MMORPG.  Which Makes me realize that having any decent conversation on these forums is not possible.  Please give me a list of MMO's that are not MMORPGs because so far there is only 1 that has been listed and if there is only 1 then why in the world is the freaking term MMO used all the time?

    Several people have already explained that many types of MMOs fall under that umbrella. Some examples are MMORTS(ex:SAGA), MMOFPS (ex:Planetside), MOBA (ex:LoL), PBBG (ex:Lords of Ultima), ActionRPG(ex:Vindictus).

    As to why MMO is used all the time:

    - it's shorter to type and say

    - it covers a broader spectrum of what the platform offers now

    - it has less baggage to it than MMORPG does, although many developers are moving away from both terms for that very reason

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by madazz

    I pity people who do not understand the simple definition of MMO. To wander around in life without even being able to grasp the simplest of things. To think LoL (which I enjoy), is an MMO is against what the developers and community believe. It also goes against the straightforward indisputable definition of what MMO means. I won't even delve into the topic further.

    I must reiterate though, we should have pity for these people. If something so simple as "MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE" is beyond their comprehension, then we must assume that other simple things in life are also out of their reach. I hope these people are not allowed to drive.

    Important difference there.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • GeekieDaveGeekieDave Blackduck, MNPosts: 41Member
    If you want my honest opinion on this matter, I think personally that the RPG from an MMORPG has been missing for quite some time. That was until games like Neverwinter and The Elder Scrolls Online were in production and being released. The feeling that you are the character you created and that what you do matters is that RPG element and with them having shards and letting multiple people play on various servers is that MMO element. But I do have to say that World Of Warcraft is doing pretty darn good at making us feel like our decisions and actions matter now with the recent 5.3 patch.

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  • ro8terro8ter Phoenix, AZPosts: 23Member

    If memory serves, the guy who made up the term MMO said 64 players online at once.

     

    That was back in the DikuMUD days, around 1995.  If a MUD has 100 players on at once, isn't it massively multiplayer?

     

    Or do we need more players online as technology becomes more advanced?

     

    There are too many terms on this forum that don't have good definitions, or everyone has their own definition. 

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by madazz

    I pity people who do not understand the simple definition of MMO. To wander around in life without even being able to grasp the simplest of things. To think LoL (which I enjoy), is an MMO is against what the developers and community believe. It also goes against the straightforward indisputable definition of what MMO means. I won't even delve into the topic further.

    I must reiterate though, we should have pity for these people. If something so simple as "MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE" is beyond their comprehension, then we must assume that other simple things in life are also out of their reach. I hope these people are not allowed to drive.

    Important difference there.

    Actually its not an important difference. Its called an adverb.

    Slow and Slowly still mean SLOW.

    Massive and Massively does not mean that one version is not massive.

     

    *EDIT - Sure enough I google both definitions and you wouldn't believe what I discovered. Apparently massively means massive!

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ro8ter

    There are too many terms on this forum that don't have good definitions, or everyone has their own definition. 

    That's why it's always better to describe what one is specifically talking about than to use vague or catch-all terms.  Unfortunately the two big problems there are

    1) MMO is like immersion, gank, P2W, and grief in that no two people have the same view and

    2) it is easier for some to wax pedantic about the definitions than actually discuss the topics since the latter requires knowledge of the subject matter and the former only requires opinion.

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by madazz
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by madazz

    I pity people who do not understand the simple definition of MMO. To wander around in life without even being able to grasp the simplest of things. To think LoL (which I enjoy), is an MMO is against what the developers and community believe. It also goes against the straightforward indisputable definition of what MMO means. I won't even delve into the topic further.

    I must reiterate though, we should have pity for these people. If something so simple as "MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE" is beyond their comprehension, then we must assume that other simple things in life are also out of their reach. I hope these people are not allowed to drive.

    Important difference there.

    Actually its not an important difference. Its called an adverb.

    Slow and Slowly still mean SLOW.

    Massive and Massively does not mean that one version is not massive.

     

    *EDIT - Sure enough I google both definitions and you wouldn't believe what I discovered. Apparently massively means massive!

    I don't disagree at all that they mean the same thing. The distinction is in what they are describing.

    Massively describes multiplayer, which in that sentence is an adjective. Massive would be an adjective describing the game itself.

    Snarky only looks cute when you're right, madazz. ;)

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by madazz
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by madazz

    I pity people who do not understand the simple definition of MMO. To wander around in life without even being able to grasp the simplest of things. To think LoL (which I enjoy), is an MMO is against what the developers and community believe. It also goes against the straightforward indisputable definition of what MMO means. I won't even delve into the topic further.

    I must reiterate though, we should have pity for these people. If something so simple as "MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE" is beyond their comprehension, then we must assume that other simple things in life are also out of their reach. I hope these people are not allowed to drive.

    Important difference there.

    Actually its not an important difference. Its called an adverb.

    Slow and Slowly still mean SLOW.

    Massive and Massively does not mean that one version is not massive.

     

    *EDIT - Sure enough I google both definitions and you wouldn't believe what I discovered. Apparently massively means massive!

    I don't disagree at all that they mean the same thing. The distinction is in what they are describing.

    Massively describes multiplayer, which in that sentence is an adjective. Massive would be an adjective describing the game itself.

    Snarky only looks cute when you're right, madazz. ;)

    But I am right :)

    Massively Multiplayer is stating that the multiplayer aspect of the online game is MASSIVE.

    Where as if it was called massive, it could be describing a game that was massive even if only 2 players.

    So while you are correct that the "ly" portion is important, I think you are going about it backwards. My point is, massively directly relates to the word "multiplayer" in MMO.

     

    Massive Multiplayer Game - A game world that is massive, even if it only has 2 players.

    Massively Multiplayer Game - A game with a massive amount of players (could be a large or small world).

     

    ps; sorry if we are on the same page and I didn't get it ;) reading back seems you are agreeing with me that counterstrike is not an MMO even though a massive amount of people play it.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    massiveLY multiplayer! NOT MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER! Huge difference.

     

    LoL is a multiplayer game with a massive amount of fans. It is not an MMO. 

     

    Dark Age of Camelot is massively multiplayer, you can have 500 people fighting in the same zone. You cannot in LoL. Or AoC. Or many modern "MMOs"/

  • SpellforgedSpellforged Belvidere, ILPosts: 458Member
    Yeah, players like to twist and bend the definitions to match their personal opinions all the time.  No way, that game with 500,000 online players doesn't count because it's instanced!

    image
  • usuckmmorpgcomusuckmmorpgcom c, KYPosts: 1,348Member

    I just call them all MOGs.

    Arguing about subtle differences in the interpretation of words is way too hipster for my taste.

    But by all means, carry on...image

  • AreWeLiveAreWeLive Brockville, ONPosts: 115Member Uncommon

     

     So many ppl and so many definitions of things,,,,

     There are two separate issues here, what is a MMO and what is the game type added to the MMO

     MMO, what makes an MMO?  I know when i go to the store and see 20 or 30 other ppl, this to me is not massive, if i go to a hockey game and see 16k people, to me thats massive and they built a building/structure just to hold those ppl.

     

    Game types

     RPG, to me this is someone playing a role that allows the player to progress buy learning things and doing things that effect the world around you, following a story line etc.  Games that have no real progression are not a rps (at least to me).

     

     OBA? lol wtf is this? its just a FPS, I have no idea where some of these names came from or who make this stuff up, It was bad enough when they added stuff like types of rpg's.  FRPG, fantasy role playing game, Si-fi rps, Science fiction etc.  i just wish it would stop =P

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,236Member Uncommon

    Diablo III and League of Legends are only  "massive" if you believe chat lobbies and auction houses are the places you play.  I, however, don't think that these spaces are the play spaces; the play space is in the world.  Therefore, while I don't question that these games can be "multiplayer" games, I question whether they are "massive multiplayer" games.

    Of course, with instancing, you can debate whether any game is truly "massive multiplayer" anymore.  I remember when those debates were all the rage back in the mid-2000s.  But since those days, we have more or less assumed that the presence of instanced dungeons don't necessarily disqualify a game from being "massive multiplayer," but instanced worlds do.

    Then, of course, you have the argument of "well, we've got instanced worlds, don't we?  What's a shard or server, after all?"  Fair point, but the servers are designed to hold thousands of users each, and are designed to be a kind of permanent address for characters.  This doesn't mean the characters can't jump from one server to the next, but it requires some CS intervention (usually with a fee and conditions like a restriction on items or a rename).

    So, yes, if we argue long enough, we can call every game that has a multiplayer component "massive," depending on what qualifies as "massive."  Similarly, with a few exceptions (like EVE, which only has one server and no instancing), we can call most any game "non-massive," since not every player is going to share the same play space with every other player.

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