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[Column] General: Becoming a F2P Convert

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  • c0existc0exist Round Rock, TXPosts: 192Member
    Originally posted by The1ceQueen

    Same here, I'd pay up to $50 a month for a good mmo these days, sad there aren't any. :(

    F2P and B2P attract a crowd I don't really care for.

    I completely agree with this statement.  

  • pantheronpantheron calhoun, GAPosts: 170Member
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    I used to maintain up to 4 subscriptions to MMOs at once, but now there are a number of good free-to-play or buy-to-play offerings out there, I cancelled all my subscriptions late last year which saved me enough money to buy and pay for my new mobile phone.

    I personally believe that pay-to-play options are dead and doubt I would ever pay another game subscription.

    Im  with you. After playing all the quality F2P titles I have, i neve no real reason to subscribe to anything anymore. 

    I play MMOs for the Forum PVP

  • Aldous.HuxleyAldous.Huxley Monticello, MNPosts: 418Member
    There are literally millions of people who are willing to pay sub fees for a quality game. This has been proven. The only thing that a free to play model does is keep sub par games afloat. Give me 3 or 4 quality P2P games a year & I'll be far happier than trudging through a never ending buffet of unsatisfying MMOs.
  • BcudaBcuda commack, NYPosts: 60Member
    I too hate the micro transactions .I will never buy something in the game for a toon. I will pay a monthly fee if the game is worth it. I played eq and eq2 for years. Then it started to  go down hill. I hate station cash. Why not release the game and let us play for 2 or 3 months. Then Charge us for a Character .If the game is good we will pay. and If we want more characters sell us a characters... NOT bags. I have no problems paying for expansions.  I dont want to spend 5 bucks for a horse .But a good game i would pay 50 bucks for a second or third character as long as there are no micro transactions.... Or try a server that is a p2p but you cant buy anything except skins and pretty stuff..
  • BoardwalkerBoardwalker Austin, TXPosts: 384Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shana77

    I like GW2's model as well. The developers get a large influx of money trough the box sales that enables them to proceed with developing content without having to nickel and dime everything to stay alive.

     

    Keep telling yourself that. Box sales for Gw2 are drying up faster than a puddle on a Texas highway in the middle of summer. Nickel and diming will come sooner rather then later.

    I much prefer paying a measly $15/month sub to ensure consistent support and game updates, not to mention helping to maintain and improve the hardware infrastructure.

     

    They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
    Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
    Play EVE for free for 21 days

  • NephaeriusNephaerius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,539Member Uncommon
    Tera, GW2, Rift, TSW, EQ2, AoC, EQ, DCUO, PS2, LotRO, etc. yeah I don't see myself ever subbing to anything again.

    Steam: Neph

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    Conversion? Players are being converted to F2P at gun point, they are not being given a choice. Just like we had to accept extremly linnear themeparks, we now have to accept F2P. It is like going down to your local resturant and finding out they are now a Macdonalds, you eat or go hungry.

    “Here's what I've found it doesn't promise that I used to believe: low quality, pay-to-win, constant manipulation, and ignored content development.”

    In his article every F2P MMO Chris mentioned launched as P2P. Every single one, does that not tell him anything? Have a look at F2P MMO’s which launched as F2P and then get back to us on their quality.

    Pay to Win is here, courtesy of the cash shop in P2P, F2P and B2P. It is not the F2P model which brought us P2W it is the cash shop which nealry every MMO now has.

    Not sure what “constant manipulation” is, but ignored content, once again have a look at F2P MMO’s which launched as F2P. In those which started as P2P content updates have been good then trailed of after conversion to F2P. Some like Lotro still do large free content updates, but that’s a rarity.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
    There are literally millions of people who are willing to pay sub fees for a quality game. This has been proven. The only thing that a free to play model does is keep sub par games afloat. Give me 3 or 4 quality P2P games a year & I'll be far happier than trudging through a never ending buffet of unsatisfying MMOs.

    3 to 4 a year ?  What kind of quality mmo do you expect to be made that keeps people for 2-3 months and remains p2p. You complain about crappy f2p mmos but you're as much to blame as anyone for why there are no sub games left. You're an mmo tourist. That mentality is why p2p died.

  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member
    Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
    There are literally millions of people who are willing to pay sub fees for a quality game. This has been proven. The only thing that a free to play model does is keep sub par games afloat. Give me 3 or 4 quality P2P games a year & I'll be far happier than trudging through a never ending buffet of unsatisfying MMOs.

    There's even more people who can't.

  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member
    Originally posted by Nephaerius
    Tera, GW2, Rift, TSW, EQ2, AoC, EQ, DCUO, PS2, LotRO, etc. yeah I don't see myself ever subbing to anything again.

    Same. I don't mind paying for a game, but paying for a gametime is just no no to me.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Emrendil
    Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
    There are literally millions of people who are willing to pay sub fees for a quality game. This has been proven. The only thing that a free to play model does is keep sub par games afloat. Give me 3 or 4 quality P2P games a year & I'll be far happier than trudging through a never ending buffet of unsatisfying MMOs.

    There's even more people who can't.

    Sure, there's literally 100's of millions of people who can't afford to pay MMO subs. That's a truly shameful situation.

     

    We should start a massive worldwide campaign to have MMO gaming declared as a "Basic Human Right". Then everyone could have access without any discrimination or deprivation.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,193Member Uncommon

    Huge mistake made in your breakout of the f2p space.  It is pretty obvious you don't play many of them to understand the difference.

    Besides the b2p, you have major differences in how the f2p is constructed.  You have the standard f2p with the cash shop, you have the f2p with a subscription option and you have the f2p that is pay-to-win where without major cash shop purchases your avatar is much less than others that do.

    The f2p with a cash shop isn't too bad, while the cash shop really helps gameplay, there are no overpowering items in it to make it absolutely necessary.  Unfortunately, there are not many of these left, the developers of these almost always end up changing to a pay-to-win scenario.  You usually find these in the early life cycle of f2p games although there are some older games that have avoided the pay-to-win cycle.

    The second option is the f2p with a subscription option.  I think DDO was the first to do this, quite successfully I might add.  These are more free to try, but you need a subscription to really enjoy the play.  Lotro, Swtor, DDO, AoC, TERA, etc.  Rift will soon join this group.

    Lastly we have the pay-to-win bracket.  While you can play these games without the cash shop, you inevitably have to buy from it for your avatar to be competitive.  They almost always have some form of gambling involved in the equipment upgrade process, be it chance boxes from the store or processes that have a very low chance of success without store items.  It seems certain producers like gPotato Frogster, Perfect World and others almost always have games like this.  Players can spend thousands of dollars upgrading their avatars only to start the process all over again when the company raises the level limit.

    I try out many of the first category, but have not really found much fun playing any of them.  I do currently play many of the second bracket and I usually subscribe if I like the game.  I flat out avoid the last bracket, while I admit I do try them out, I have found all of them to be lacking.  Neverwinter is a good example of this.  It is a fun game to play, but once you reach endgame it is pointless, so why bother getting there.  

    You the customer have to decide which direction you choose in this space.  If money is no object than the last category probably is for you.  If you have a limited budget, you really need to avoid the last category as you will not be really able to enjoy it.

     

  • Aldous.HuxleyAldous.Huxley Monticello, MNPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
    There are literally millions of people who are willing to pay sub fees for a quality game. This has been proven. The only thing that a free to play model does is keep sub par games afloat. Give me 3 or 4 quality P2P games a year & I'll be far happier than trudging through a never ending buffet of unsatisfying MMOs.

    3 to 4 a year ?  What kind of quality mmo do you expect to be made that keeps people for 2-3 months and remains p2p. You complain about crappy f2p mmos but you're as much to blame as anyone for why there are no sub games left. You're an mmo tourist. That mentality is why p2p died.

    Don't be so narrow in thought. I didn't mean that I would play all four. I just meant that I would rather see that many quality games released instead of the many junk games. I said nowhere in my post that I would play all 4. Now, 4 to choose from? Yes.

    Reading is fundamental.

     

    Also, there are people who sub more than one game...

     

  • Aldous.HuxleyAldous.Huxley Monticello, MNPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by Emrendil
    Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
    There are literally millions of people who are willing to pay sub fees for a quality game. This has been proven. The only thing that a free to play model does is keep sub par games afloat. Give me 3 or 4 quality P2P games a year & I'll be far happier than trudging through a never ending buffet of unsatisfying MMOs.

    There's even more people who can't.

     

    Let them eat cake.

  • scrittyscritty WorcesterPosts: 89Member

    So many assumptions at the top of this blog are just wrong. Swtor made cash LOTS of it - it 100% covered development costs in 6 months as a subscription model.

    It would have taken 7 years even at CURRENT high player levels to do the same thing as it is set up now.

    And there is the thing SWTOR and LOTRO STO and others were NOT DEVELOPED free to play. F2P players have the great luck to be playing a AAA sub game that fell into F2P.

    Also if they want players to pay for micro transactions - and enough of them to make a decent amount of money for the game over the long term - then what is offered needs to actually have some value in game most of the time. There are so many times most people will pay for a different colored hat or a mount that looks slightly different but acts exactly the same. As soon as they do people QQ about "This is Pay to win" and is far as PvE goes it often is - but without buying P2W PvE items then finance model of these games would fall flat and the servers would shut in no time.

  • MimzelMimzel KristiansandPosts: 375Member

    Love your articles, Chris! You have an excellent way of expressing yourself. I do think it's the right way of thinking about it; F2P as we know it now is a phase in the MMORPG genre. It will most likely continue to search for the golden Best Practice.

    I hate F2P games which deliberately fill their roads with pot holes and then sell asphalt in their cash shop. Games like Tera, however, have struck a positive chord with me.

  • mCalvertmCalvert Tallahassee, FLPosts: 1,283Member
    I have yet to see a MMO that was designed to be F2p, that's any good.
  • Segun777Segun777 Jade Dynasty Correspondent Lemont, PAPosts: 97Member
    Great article.
  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member

    Well OP, I'm happy you pointed out what is wrong the with the model. You've highlighted the fact that these games were failures, in some respect or the other. You've also highlighted the fact that they gate content - you'd think it'd be the opposite. You've pointed out exactly what's wrong with the genre and by proximity, you are part of the problem.

     

    If I wanted lotteries, I'd go to the casino. If I wanted to get nickel-and-dimed, I'd go to a pawn shop. Most of the f2p games should have been shut down and their existence makes me lament every announcement of an MMO because all I can think of is how bad they will suck and how much money they ask for around every turn.  

     

    Personally, I don't believe in supporting any game that gates content, or asks for points or money everytime I turn around. I'm a firm believer in the buy-to-play model, but I'd support f2p games that have a cosmetic cash shop. I'm hoping Rift is done well, I've really enjoyed that game and I'd hate to see it become another LoTRO.

     
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    There's only one way to fight the "F2P Blight" that's ruining the MMO genre...

     

    Play them all to the max without spending a single cent !

     

    Because if the F2P developers don't make enough income on their current pricing models, they will make them more restrictive to "encourage" players to spend more. In short, they will become more and more P2W in an effort to extract cash from player wallets constantly. They will slowly kill themselves...

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    There's only one way to fight the "F2P Blight" that's ruining the MMO genre...

     

    Play them all to the max without spending a single cent !

     

    Because if the F2P developers don't make enough income on their current pricing models, they will make them more restrictive to "encourage" players to spend more. In short, they will become more and more P2W in an effort to extract cash from player wallets constantly. They will slowly kill themselves...

    So you wanna save the MMO genre by ruining it? You are very aware that your, and I am using the term generously, advice wouldn't mean the death of F2P games, it would mean the death of games where advantages are not being sold in cash shops and if you think P2P devs won't get in on that action you're really optimistic (again being very generous). How would they get away with selling power in a p2p game? why elementary my dear boy: down the sub to 10 maybe even 5 monetary units per month (be that dollars, euros, british pounds, whatever) and then put in necessary for high level play items in the cash shop and also make it available in-game at massively low drop rates off high level bosses in raids or via special rare events. Think that's impossible? Not so many people from P2P community wouldn't say "it keeps the riff raff out and I pay so little already! why not pay more?".

    image
  • centkincentkin Asbury, NJPosts: 944Member Uncommon
    In a FTP game I want protection against the whales.  In essence a server where there is a subscription fee and the most you can pay per month is $50.  It gets ridiculous when you have to compete against people who are spending $700 per month on a game.  And while yes those people do rake in a lot of money, when they take the top rating EVERY TIME with people spending less having no chance, it tends to make the $50 people become $0 people. 
  • Aldous.HuxleyAldous.Huxley Monticello, MNPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac

    Don't be so narrow in thought. I didn't mean that I would play all four. I just meant that I would rather see that many quality games released instead of the many junk games. I said nowhere in my post that I would play all 4. Now, 4 to choose from? Yes.

    Reading is fundamental.

     

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit]

    My point, as touched on in my post is that FTP artificially props up substandard games that would otherwise fail if they were subscription based. Since these companies have now found a way to make money from substandard games, it only gives incentive to pump out low quality games for the easy money. [mod edit]

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac

    Don't be so narrow in thought. I didn't mean that I would play all four. I just meant that I would rather see that many quality games released instead of the many junk games. I said nowhere in my post that I would play all 4. Now, 4 to choose from? Yes.

    Reading is fundamental.

     

    [mod edit]

     

     

    [mod edit]

     

    My point, as touched on in my post is that FTP artificially props up substandard games that would otherwise fail if they were subscription based. Since these companies have now found a way to make money from substandard games, it only gives incentive to pump out low quality games for the easy money. This is the obvious portion I believe you are missing, Captain...

    [mod edit]

    Substandard games are being made because people demand them (CoD, MoH, Gears of War, Halo, etc, the entire EA sports lineup). Case and point WoW held onto its title for so long and only now is it dying because it's just too old not because people are actually sick and tired of its now substandard design so kindly learn the difference between F2P and FTP and the difference between what you think F2P is doing to the market (encouraging bad games) and what it is actually doing (encouraging risks on the part of the developers with innovation and giving them a way to excuse high graphical fidelity to their investors), true there are bad sides to what is actually going on but so did the P2P system before it (so many, many substandard games or games which were forced out too soon and only under F2P do they finally find their wings).

    image
  • Aldous.HuxleyAldous.Huxley Monticello, MNPosts: 418Member

    Yea... I think I understand now. Sub standard means innovative. Lack of polished content is risk taking. Forced CS items is actually variety in play style. And here I thought the only games that made FTP look remotely good are the sub failures because they at least attempted to make a sub worthy game.

     

    Squelch...

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