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Can't see this game having any lasting appeal in its current state

PiechunksPiechunks ProvincePosts: 136Member

Took me around 2 days (of playing time, i.e. /played) to hit 60 with a TR (I know, I'm terrible). I can't say that rushed...really.. All I did was play through the base quest content casually and do a few foundries for the daily ADs. 

Without the foundry the content in this game would be trivial. With the foundry, it still lacks end-game content; there is no significant tie in between the foundry and the best gear in the game yet.

I think it behooves cryptic to let the player base design the end-game dungeons with moderated content (to ensure no more "ogre push" exploits).

Foundry quests are definitely sort of the novelty factor to this game, but once you hit 60 they just become a daily chore for AD as you get no other reward (once you're in level 60 greens).

 

I'm not going to make any ridiculous claims like the population is taking a nose dive, but you can see different metrics that indicate the standard down trend for a newly released MMO and unlike many MMOs this games leveling curve is almost a straight line.

There are no alternate quest paths, no different starting areas, few classes (they are obviously in the process of adding more, but the same content is the same content at the end of the day) and very trivial character progression.

They could make leveling a lot harder, sort of forcing you into the foundry, which wouldn't be that bad of an idea, or they could tie in the foundry better with end-game content.

 

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Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    If you're playing to level or playing for AD, then the game will definitely have short term appeal. The players who are playing for the mods, however, will more than likely find years of content ahead. The biggest obstacle to this game's appeal is the ridiculous city environment, as it serves as nothing but a hindrance to the module-style gameplay the game offers. Mods and player-created campaigns gave an extended life to several CRPGs ( ex: Titan Quest, NWN1 ) and NWO is not much different from those.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • PiechunksPiechunks ProvincePosts: 136Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    If you're playing to level or playing for AD, then the game will definitely have short term appeal. The players who are playing for the mods, however, will more than likely find years of content ahead. The biggest obstacle to this game's appeal is the ridiculous city environment, as it serves as nothing but a hindrance to the module-style gameplay the game offers. Mods and player-created campaigns gave an extended life to several CRPGs ( ex: Titan Quest, NWN1 ) and NWO is not much different from those.

     

    Green apples and red apples.

    The big difference between Neverwinter and NWN etc. is that there is far less creative freedom and less utility to the player who is intended to be using the mods.

    Firstly, the base quest material yields more experience than foundries (well.. at least after they banned the exploiters).

    Secondly, which I had stated in my first post, there is nothing to tie character progression to the mods end game.

    So your argument is simply wrong.

     

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    If you're playing to level or playing for AD, then the game will definitely have short term appeal. The players who are playing for the mods, however, will more than likely find years of content ahead. The biggest obstacle to this game's appeal is the ridiculous city environment, as it serves as nothing but a hindrance to the module-style gameplay the game offers. Mods and player-created campaigns gave an extended life to several CRPGs ( ex: Titan Quest, NWN1 ) and NWO is not much different from those.

    Ummmm...no....simpely no....

    NWN series had full creative and immersive capabilities that included Persistent World capabilities.

    NWO is nothing more than a themepark on rails cash shop P2W MMO with mediocre UGC capability with far too limiting freedom that prevents immersion.

    Cryptic pretty much completely shat on the RP crowd which is where the D&D people are at and instead with for an IP sales product of MMO mediocrity at its best.

     

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Piechunks

    Took me around 2 days to hit 60 with a TR (I know, I'm terrible). I can't say that rushed...really.. All I did was play through the base quest content casually and do a few foundries for the daily ADs. 

    Without the foundry the content in this game would be trivial. With the foundry, it still lacks end-game content; there is no significant tie in between the foundry and the best gear in the game yet.

    I think it behooves cryptic to let the player base design the end-game dungeons with moderated content (to ensure no more "ogre push" exploits).

    Foundry quests are definitely sort of the novelty factor to this game, but once you hit 60 they just become a daily chore for AD as you get no other reward (once you're in level 60 greens).

     

    I'm not going to make any ridiculous claims like the population is taking a nose dive, but you can see different metrics that indicate the standard down trend for a newly released MMO and unlike many MMOs this games leveling curve is almost a straight line.

    There are no alternate quest paths, no different starting areas, few classes (they are obviously in the process of adding more, but the same content is the same content at the end of the day) and very trivial character progression.

    They could make leveling a lot harder, sort of forcing you into the foundry, which wouldn't be that bad of an idea, or they could tie in the foundry better with end-game content.

     

     

    Speaking of ridiculous claims, two days to 60 as a casual player? Hah, only if you exploited either the quest bug or the foundry.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by furbans
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    If you're playing to level or playing for AD, then the game will definitely have short term appeal. The players who are playing for the mods, however, will more than likely find years of content ahead. The biggest obstacle to this game's appeal is the ridiculous city environment, as it serves as nothing but a hindrance to the module-style gameplay the game offers. Mods and player-created campaigns gave an extended life to several CRPGs ( ex: Titan Quest, NWN1 ) and NWO is not much different from those.

    Ummmm...no....simpely no....

    NWN series had full creative and immersive capabilities that included Persistent World capabilities.

    NWO is nothing more than a themepark on rails cash shop P2W MMO with mediocre UGC capability with far too limiting freedom that prevents immersion.

    Cryptic pretty much completely shat on the RP crowd which is where the D&D people are at and instead with for an IP sales product of MMO mediocrity at its best.

    But... how do you really feel?  :)

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Piechunks
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    If you're playing to level or playing for AD, then the game will definitely have short term appeal. The players who are playing for the mods, however, will more than likely find years of content ahead. The biggest obstacle to this game's appeal is the ridiculous city environment, as it serves as nothing but a hindrance to the module-style gameplay the game offers. Mods and player-created campaigns gave an extended life to several CRPGs ( ex: Titan Quest, NWN1 ) and NWO is not much different from those.

    Green apples and red apples.

    The big difference between Neverwinter and NWN etc. is that there is far less creative freedom and less utility to the player who is intended to be using the mods.

    Firstly, the base quest material yields more experience than foundries (well.. at least after they banned the exploiters).

    Secondly, which I had stated in my first post, there is nothing to tie character progression to the mods end game.

    So your argument is simply wrong.

    So your two points are that there's more XP to base quests than foundry and that there's nothing endgame focused about the foundry.

    "If you're playing to level or playing for AD, then the game will definitely have short term appeal."

    Looks like we agree, no?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • BrucyBonusBrucyBonus londonPosts: 220Member
    For me the appeal of the game was purely the Foundry, but since they have removed any incentive for players to try Foundry quests (it is also littered with half-finished crap) the appeal is rapidly diminishing.  
  • lolunaticlolunatic Mesa, AZPosts: 108Member
    Yeah, personally, It's not appealing to me at all....
  • PiechunksPiechunks ProvincePosts: 136Member

    Originally posted by BrucyBonus For me the appeal of the game was purely the Foundry, but since they have removed any incentive for players to try Foundry quests (it is also littered with half-finished crap) the appeal is rapidly diminishing. 

    Exactly! No incentive to play your quests means no reason to make them.


    Originally posted by AZHokie54 [mod edit]
     [mod edit]

     

     


    Originally posted by Loktofeit So your two points are that there's more XP to base quests than foundry and that there's nothing endgame focused about the foundry. "If you're playing to level or playing for AD, then the game will definitely have short term appeal." Looks like we agree, no?

     

    On the contrary: The long term appeal of this game is tied to end-game content, which isn't tied to the foundry. Since foundry rewards aren't up to par with end-game rewards, people have no incentive to do foundry quests (past the 4 quickies for daily AD).

    Foundry quests are actually most rewarding during the leveling process, since they do grant reasonable exp over time and rewards, but since leveling doesn't last long, neither does foundry appeal.  

     


    Originally posted by evilastro     Speaking of ridiculous claims, two days to 60 as a casual player? Hah, only if you exploited either the quest bug or the foundry.
     

     

     

    Well, you see there are two cases here:

    Case 1: You don't understand the difference between time played in the game and number of days over which you played the game.

    Case 2: You are deliberately misinterpreting something that obvious to get a nasty response out of me.

     

    In either case, I'm not angry  :) Most people level to 60 within 3 days of playing time. People who exploited leveled to 60 in a few hours of playing time.[/quote] 

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    Good thing it's in open beta huh.

    Anyways people are fine to have opinions but sometimes you gotta just shake your head and facepalm. They don't even have all the classes yet and people are already making these claims. ( typical coming from those who bounce to the end instantly and wonder what happened, it's like going to a really long trilogy movie like LOTR and watching Gollum fall into the lava, missed the whole point)

    For those who want to be cautious, be cautious. Meanwhile the rest of us who know what to expect will be enjoying it.

  • PiechunksPiechunks ProvincePosts: 136Member
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Good thing it's in open beta huh.

    Anyways people are fine to have opinions but sometimes you gotta just shake your head and facepalm. They don't even have all the classes yet and people are already making these claims. ( typical coming from those who bounce to the end instantly and wonder what happened, it's like going to a really long trilogy movie like LOTR and watching Gollum fall into the lava, missed the whole point)

    For those who want to be cautious, be cautious. Meanwhile the rest of us who know what to expect will be enjoying it.

     

    How does the number of classes correlate to the end-game progression? Since the quest content is pretty much uniform, save for a couple minor side quests here and there, the only thing providing novelty is the foundry.

    Once again, leveling in this game is trivial compared to other games. A hardcore player, without exploiting, could hit 60 within a day of play time provided they do the necessary research and just do quests.

    Everybody converges to end-game and for any person wanting to play longer than a couple days worth, it is the meat of the game.

     

    It's ironic how nobody has addressed my suggestion of tying the foundry to end-game by allowing players, with some kind of review process to prevent exploits, to make end-game maps so a plethora of end-game content can be provided without any devs breaking a sweat.

     

     

  • ZedTheRockZedTheRock Florence, KYPosts: 172Member
    As for normal content my playtime has taken a hit, I mean I do have 3 level 60's already with 1 in T2 gear and the other 2 in T1.  Currently my passion is running Foundry Missions, mainly for the new stuff but secondly because its a good source of Runes & Enchants, ID Scrolls and Gold.

    SUP

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member

    I'm on my 5th day casually playing and I've only hit 44 o.O the OP must've been doing something non-kosher.

     

    That said: No incentive to try the Foundry content yet.... what would RPers do? Not make their own dungeons/adventures and just have fun on their own that way? And before you say anything: They would still be important to the community as they would still generate ADs some of which go towards purchasing Zens.

    image
  • PiechunksPiechunks ProvincePosts: 136Member
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    I'm on my 5th day casually playing and I've only hit 44 o.O the OP must've been doing something non-kosher.

     

    That said: No incentive to try the Foundry content yet.... what would RPers do? Not make their own dungeons/adventures and just have fun on their own that way? And before you say anything: They would still be important to the community as they would still generate ADs some of which go towards purchasing Zens.

     

    Type /played.

     

    Mine comes out to 2 days and change. What does yours come out to?

     

  • XepherdXepherd ParisPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by Piechunks
    Type /played.

     

    Mine comes out to 2 days and change. What does yours come out to?

     

    OK so the former post is completely misleading…24 hours spent in a game don't equal to 2 regular days in "real life"

    Unless you wouldn't eat or sleep, there's no way you could reach 60 in 2 days without RUSHING.

    PS: people pay $60 for console games that don't last more than 8-12-16 hours sometimes. I'm happy to read you had 24 hours play-time before "finishing" this free game. Thanks Cryptic!!!

  • PiechunksPiechunks ProvincePosts: 136Member
    Originally posted by Elfahiar
     

    OK so the former post is completely misleading…24 hours spent in a game don't equal to 2 regular days in "real life"

    Unless you wouldn't eat or sleep, there's no way you could reach 60 in 2 days without RUSHING.

    PS: people pay $60 for console games that don't last more than 8-12-16 hours sometimes. I'm happy to read you had 24 hours play-time before "finishing" this free game. Thanks Cryptic!!!

     

    Not at all. Most people use /played, or time spent playing in game as a measure of how long it takes to get to the maximum level.

    Actually, if you know how to play and use a TR/GWF, you can do it in less than two days. During my two days of play time, I did at least 20 foundry quests and I took my time to smell the roses.

    The leveling content of this game is extremely easy and the rate of progression is fast.

     

    Once again, the whole argument of this post is ignored (please read my initial post again to find out what it is). May I ask why?

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Piechunks

    Originally posted by evilastro     Speaking of ridiculous claims, two days to 60 as a casual player? Hah, only if you exploited either the quest bug or the foundry.
     

    Well, you see there are two cases here:

    Case 1: You don't understand the difference between time played in the game and number of days over which you played the game.

    Case 2: You are deliberately misinterpreting something that obvious to get a nasty response out of me.

     

    In either case, I'm not angry  :) Most people level to 60 within 3 days of playing time. People who exploited leveled to 60 in a few hours of playing time.[/quote] 

    Not really. In your OP it said it took you two days. You didn't clarify that you meant /played time, so it was pretty reasonable that I misinterpreted. It was a fairly misleading comment, possibly intentional.

    So it took you around 48 hours of playtime to reach 60, which is a bit more reasonable.  Without exploiting you are looking at 1-2 levels per hour once you get past 20. So a casual player will probably take between two weeks and a month to hit max level.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Piechunks

    Without the foundry the content in this game would be trivial. With the foundry, it still lacks end-game content; there is no significant tie in between the foundry and the best gear in the game yet.

     

    You wanted us to get back to the other points you made, so I will. Have you fully geared out this TR of yours? I mean, do you have full Castle Never gear and max level enchantments?

    If not, then you can't really say that it is lacking in content. There are lots of dungeons already at end game, and the next tier (Gauntlgrym) is due in a few weeks. I would hardly call this game end game light. It has way more stuff to do at end game than SWTOR had at launch. And this is looking to be padded out nicely very shortly.

    As for the Foundry. I already use it to level my alts, like you have said the in-game levelling content is fairly linear. Although you can level entirely through the Foundry, PvP, skirmishes or dungeons rather than ever doing the solo quests again on an alt. This is more than most games offer.  There are a few questlines I do for the rewards (the two other bag slots) but other than that I spice it up with new Foundry quests.

  • silverreignsilverreign Whitehouse, TXPosts: 402Member Uncommon

    [quote]Originally posted by Piechunks
    [b]Originally posted by BrucyBonus For me the appeal of the game was purely the Foundry, but since they have removed any incentive for players to try Foundry quests (it is also littered with half-finished crap) the appeal is rapidly diminishing. 

    Exactly! No incentive to play your quests means no reason to make them.


    Originally posted by AZHokie54 [mod edit]  [mod edit] 

     


    Originally posted by Loktofeit So your two points are that there's more XP to base quests than foundry and that there's nothing endgame focused about the foundry. "If you're playing to level or playing for AD, then the game will definitely have short term appeal." Looks like we agree, no?
     

    On the contrary: The long term appeal of this game is tied to end-game content, which isn't tied to the foundry. Since foundry rewards aren't up to par with end-game rewards, people have no incentive to do foundry quests (past the 4 quickies for daily AD).

    Foundry quests are actually most rewarding during the leveling process, since they do grant reasonable exp over time and rewards, but since leveling doesn't last long, neither does foundry appeal.  

      Originally posted by evilastro     Speaking of ridiculous claims, two days to 60 as a casual player? Hah, only if you exploited either the quest bug or the foundry.


      

     

    Well, you see there are two cases here:

    Case 1: You don't understand the difference between time played in the game and number of days over which you played the game.

    Case 2: You are deliberately misinterpreting something that obvious to get a nasty response out of me.

     

    In either case, I'm not angry  :) Most people level to 60 within 3 days of playing time. People who exploited leveled to 60 in a few hours of playing time.[/quote] [/b][/quote]
    negative sir. I may be wrong but I think its taking the majority of players longer than 3 days to hit 60. ive been playin since open beta and as of this post im 50. I don't play daily but when I do I play for 4-5 hours at a time. now I am a father of 3 yr old twins and also work a full time job so I don't have the luxury of logging in and playing all day and night (nor would I want to). not to mention having yard work and that little thing called "lovin" that I like to dabble in:) also, when I do play my wife plays with me so we go through questing content fairly quickly. did I forget to mention that im a TR and shes a cleric. still takes longer than 3 days.

    image

  • XepherdXepherd ParisPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by evilastro

    Not really. In your OP it said it took you two days. You didn't clarify that you meant /played time, so it was pretty reasonable that I misinterpreted. It was a fairly misleading comment, possibly intentional.

    Thank you that's what I tried to tell him lol…saying "it took me 2 days" sounds more like "I spent 2 days playing this game" than "I cumulated 48 hours of in-game time"

    Anyway…I have no problem with people's opinion, just wanted to reply about the "2 days" thing :D

    PS: Completely unrelated, but more than 20+ hours in a free game is a good deal IMHO, considering what people get with $50-60 titles sometimes

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    Originally posted by Elfahiar
    Originally posted by Piechunks
    Type /played.

     

    Mine comes out to 2 days and change. What does yours come out to?

     

    OK so the former post is completely misleading…24 hours spent in a game don't equal to 2 regular days in "real life"

    Unless you wouldn't eat or sleep, there's no way you could reach 60 in 2 days without RUSHING.

    PS: people pay $60 for console games that don't last more than 8-12-16 hours sometimes. I'm happy to read you had 24 hours play-time before "finishing" this free game. Thanks Cryptic!!!

    Except you left out the fact that console games have a much greater in depth story, a lot more features, no cash shop that hinders features, that are not linear, that are immersive, and has replay value.  People who spend only 8-16 hrs are the types that rush to level cap n bitch cause there nothing else to do n quite.

  • XepherdXepherd ParisPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by furbans

    Except you left out the fact that console games have a much greater in depth story, a lot more features, no cash shop that hinders features, that are not linear, that are immersive, and has replay value.  People who spend only 8-16 hrs are the types that rush to level cap n bitch cause there nothing else to do n quite.

    Lvl 60 without needing the Cash Shop a single time in Neverwinter.

     

    "Except you left out the fact that console games have a much greater in depth story"

    "not linear,"

     

    Not all of them. Can't be generalized.

  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Piechunks

    Took me around 2 days to hit 60 with a TR (I know, I'm terrible). I can't say that rushed...really.. All I did was play through the base quest content casually and do a few foundries for the daily ADs. 

    Without the foundry the content in this game would be trivial. With the foundry, it still lacks end-game content; there is no significant tie in between the foundry and the best gear in the game yet.

    I think it behooves cryptic to let the player base design the end-game dungeons with moderated content (to ensure no more "ogre push" exploits).

    Foundry quests are definitely sort of the novelty factor to this game, but once you hit 60 they just become a daily chore for AD as you get no other reward (once you're in level 60 greens).

     

    I'm not going to make any ridiculous claims like the population is taking a nose dive, but you can see different metrics that indicate the standard down trend for a newly released MMO and unlike many MMOs this games leveling curve is almost a straight line.

    There are no alternate quest paths, no different starting areas, few classes (they are obviously in the process of adding more, but the same content is the same content at the end of the day) and very trivial character progression.

    They could make leveling a lot harder, sort of forcing you into the foundry, which wouldn't be that bad of an idea, or they could tie in the foundry better with end-game content.

     

     

    Speaking of ridiculous claims, two days to 60 as a casual player? Hah, only if you exploited either the quest bug or the foundry.

    2 days ,ay be an extreme case, but his point of the leveling curve is true. I play casual, maybe 2-3hrs on a good day lately and I have found the leveling to be faster than any other game. I definitely out level my professions and I am focusing on 1. They made the combat too easy. I really don't see people paying the outrageous shop prices for unnecessary items when you can level fast without any of them.

    image

  • aromeroaromero BelizePosts: 49Member

    This game was a fun ride but unfortunately the levelling is way too fast and the end game is just bleh. On to the next one.

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Phoenix, AZPosts: 823Member Uncommon
    I've played Cryptic games and they are ridiculously easy/quick leveling. I find it extremely doubtful that in 2 days, one could do this as a casual player. 2 to 3 weeks, yes. 2 days, not without exploits or a hard grind. Cryptic generally releases games with supposedly 40 hours of gameplay.

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