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"Hybrid" Business Model according to Jeremy Gaffney



  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare
    Originally posted by DMKano
    AAA games - F2P and B2P are the only option for a new MMORPG in this market.

    I don't think so. The combination of F2P and a premium subscription has proven rather effective for several MMOs. However, GW2 and Defiance have shown that you can sell a client for a F2P game, so I imagine others will follow suit at least during release.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member
    Originally posted by Darkholme
    One of the last questions asked towards the very end of the video; If you want to go straight to that timestamp; Discuss, complain, etc... Edited for clicky link. ;)

    If the Beta feels good, the game is already bought.


  • HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member
    Originally posted by DeniZg
    So, what does this "hybrid model" actually mean? B2P + cash shop as in GW2? That doesn't sound like hybrid to me. More like the usual B2P model. Maybe F2P + sub as in SWTOR? That sounds hybrid, but I hope it wouldn't have such bad F2P implementation as SWTOR has. Is there any other hybrid model around?

    I assume like funcom's AoC business model. Buy everything (premium membership) or play for free (restricted areas, dungeons etc). This is only fair imho.


  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,426Member Uncommon

    TSW uses a box + optional sub + cash shop model. It could work well, depending on the implementation.

    The one thing I don't want is pure F2P. It makes getting banned a non-issue for some players and pushes the game towards P2W.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member Common
    Of course this could be marketing speak for "double dip"
  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    I hope it is b2p with sub option ... if its f2p with sub .. fuck this
  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon

    I'm OK with a hybrid model... as long as it doesn't have a cash shop! :P

    Haha, yeah, now you go figure that out, Carbine.

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,803Member Uncommon

    If they went with a EQ2, TSW, LOTR's or SWTOR style hybrid except with a box purchase that would be ok assuming they are truly committed to the PVE end game long term.  Their Raid content better rock socks out of the gate if they have any desire to build a raiding community though as I still believe most hard core raiding guilds are going to look down on a F2P/B2P game even if it does have a sub option.

    The big issue with that though is all the Hybrid model MMO's launched as sub and migrated to hybrid and Wildstar is talking about launching that way.  I'm not really sure how they plan on pulling that one off but I guess we will have to wait and see.

    My main issue with B2P and F2P is there isn't a game on the market today using those models that takes PVE end game seriously.  All the developer time is spent focused on PVP or Adventure box style PVE meant more to clog up your inventory with useless fluff items that you need to buy more inventory slots for rather then provide any kind of worthwhile large group PVE content.  The Sub games that went Hybrid do offer raiding but all of them offered it before the F2P conversion instead of launching that way.

    I honestly don't care about the payment model as long as it's a good game with a deep PVE progression curve.  All the F2P and B2P games released to date have fallen way short of that.  And yea most sub games released have to which is probably one of the reasons they are pretty much all F2P now.


  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,419Member Uncommon

    all this says to me is "we can't make the game worth $15 a month." which is worrisome. I don't really want to play a game that isn't worth $15 a month. I've been looking forward to this game for a while, but recently my interest is waning. Really starting to look like just another game. The paths, housing and warplots loot like amazing ideas though .. so I am quite sure i will check it out .. but if there is a f2p option this pretty much ensures that I will play for free until I am bored and then quit .. unless it actually turns out to be worth $15 a month.

    either way I won't give a game with astral diamond type currencies any of my money unless it is setup so that people with a sub don't have any need to every touch an astral diamond.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • ZapzapZapzap Someplace, WYPosts: 224Member Uncommon

    Hybrid model sounds like it will be sub based for those that actually play the game but F2P with a cash shop for the casual masses that will never see the endgame of a MMO and who only play a game a few hours before they get bored and move to the next game they will leave.

    Basically one ends up with a sub based game full of ultra casuals in the starter zones.  Hopefully they will restrict global chat so these game hoppers will not ruin the community.

  • ZakaneZakane Midlothian, VAPosts: 70Member Uncommon

    Are we all not speculating a bit much from a single sentence that seemed to have been made up on the spot as in a fleeting moment?

    Honestly I like B2P model similar to GW2. It seems to be working for them well. I also like Pay to Play models.

    F2P is a failing system IMO, but that is just me.

    Honestly I am not sure why everyone is so gun ho for F2P type models, you have to pay for every other form of entertainment. I get heck of a lot more for 15bucks a month on an online game then I do with a 15 bucks 3d movie at the movie theatre. 

    Aaah 3d movies the truth rip off if every there was one.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 8,172Member Rare
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Another nail in P2P's coffin.

    There is a huge difference between a hybrid and a f2p!  If you can't figure that out I feel sorry for you.  To sum it up in one word it is content.

    People who like the game will sub.  They can try it out as a f2p.  So it really it in no way a nail in the p2p coffin, just another option.  Just ask some of these other hybrid games how many subs they have, there are a lot.

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member

    Isn't Rift a soon-to-be free to play game that has good end-game?


    Towelie personally thinks Rift is the 2nd best MMO out right now, behind WoW since for him WoW dishes out content and does most things pretty well.


    Everquest Next is also releasing this year at TOTALLY FREE TO PLAY. Don't even need to buy the game. That will get a lot more of a chance than a game you need to go out on a limb for and buy the game + sub.


    Theres a lot of pressure on MMOs nowadays on which business model to pick

  • Sho0terMcgavinSho0terMcgavin Harrisburg, PAPosts: 301Member
    Originally posted by Darkholme
    One of the last questions asked towards the very end of the video; If you want to go straight to that timestamp; Discuss, complain, etc... Edited for clicky link. ;)

    Thanks for taking the time to post these links.  I enjoyed the video, all 16 mins of it lol.  I honestly  could care less what model they use.  I will be playing this regardless.  But, in order of personal preference.  I would go B2P (like GW2), P2P, then F2P.  F2P's no limit to enter the game lets people troll and pretty much destroy any F2P community feeling.  I know trolling happens in every game.  I just find the community in all the F2P mmos i've tried (i've tried a lot), to be a little lacking in any cooperation.  Again, only my opinion.  



    P.S.  I know all games have trolls and problems.  But, when a game has a box price.  A lot of little kids and trolls don't enter in droves. 

  • DatastarDatastar Austin, TXPosts: 245Member Uncommon
    I sincerely hope that eventually people will get sick of being nickel and dimed and realize f2p doesn't mean free to play, it just means were going to make you want to spend more than 15 bucks a month to stay competitive.
  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 957Member Uncommon


    oh well i should have expected it, since the publisher has gone that path.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,133Member Uncommon

    " hybrid model "   image



    I am definitely getting a laugh at how hard cash shop publishers/developers are trying to associate their games with the P2P model.    


    There isn't a single, rational player that believes a cash shop based game offering a 30 day timed package is a subscription.   

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 880Member Uncommon
    As long as they have a sub I will definitely try this. I can't stand the F2P model. 

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member Uncommon

    When I hear of a hybrid model I think of DDO, LOTRO, Everquest 2, and TSW so I'm assuming it's going to be like that where a sub model exists, but the cash shop also exists on top of that.  I'm also assuming Wildstar will be B2P, though I can see it being F2P too.

    I'm actually a bit worried about how they can make a hybrid model work while being fair.  To me a hybrid model could harm the game unless all of the following is met:

    • Game was B2P to begin with so no complete separation needed from F2P players.
    • Players who pay for a sub have no mechanical advantage over a player who doesn't.
    • Players who do not pay for a sub have access to the same content as players who do.
    • Cash shop only offers cosmetic advantages and convenience items.
    • Everything in the cash shop is unlocked permanently and not rented.  Additionally, if you sub nothing is "unlocked" during the sub period and suddenly locked again if you unsubbed. (This was especially irritating in Everquest 2 for example where you could have entire sets of gear and spells unlocked while you were subbed, but when you unsubbed you could no longer use those)
    I'm really struggling to think of a way you can do this without effecting the gameplay.  The only way I can think of is that people who sub get a set amount of cash shop points to spend each month and a static "bundle" of items each month of value equal to or above the sub payment plan AND a special unique cosmetic item that can't be bought on the cash shop.  So the sub will be a better deal especially if you want items offered in the bundle, but if you'd rather buy items offered in the cash shop separately you can still do that.
    I'm not against B2P or even F2P, in fact I think it's a superior model to the sub based model, but I think gameplay might suffer as a result of trying to conform to a hybrid model so I'm a bit wary about this announcement till we get a better idea of what the difference between a subbing player and a free player will be.  If people need to start paying to unlock content than it's questionable if the B2P non-sub option is even needed.
    The game will do well with having a cash shop with the housing system, dyes, outfits, minipets, mounts, etc. at least.


    Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

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