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No World PvP? No Thanks...

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  • VaporsVapors Fr.Posts: 407Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dauzqul

     

    So ESO stated that their PvP will be [mod edit]., dedicated PvP area.

     

    I'm done with the sass. No thanks.

     

    This game seems to be more like a medieval SWTOR, anyways.

    I will comment a future situation which will happen to you or to any wannabe pvp'er who never had open world pvp b4.

    PVEguy@PVPbadass: WHY YOU KILL ME OMG OMG OMG PLSSS I HAVE TO QUEST

    PVPbadass@PVEguy: hahaha

    AnotherrandomPVE@PVPbadass: omfg stop this pleaase I cant quest, and you are a cheater cant kill you

    PVPbadass@AnotherrandomPVE: hahahah

    SuperPVEboy@PVPbadass: OMG YOU CHEATER I report you, I cant kill you you are a bad cheater omg

     

    I played enough open world pvp to say this, and this comments or whispers happen to 95%. So you want all this crybabies to quit a game for its open world pvp. Just because 10% of the pvp players like to have one?

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,578Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dauzqul

     

    So ESO stated that their PvP will be [mod edit]., dedicated PvP area.

     

    I'm done with the sass. No thanks.

     

    This game seems to be more like a medieval SWTOR, anyways.

    If that were true, it would have open world PvP. Last time I played SWTOR it had OWPvP servers. Has that changed?

    Your making it sound like DAOC RvR concept is similiar to what WoW does. (As people have mentioned before, SWTOR = WoW in space)

    image
  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    You know I keep wondering, why do people make these threads, cause to be honest all it causes is arguments, and the way the title is stated, it's as if the OP wants the supporters to cry or some shit like we where suppose to care.

     

    Yea responding shows we giving him/her attention but in all honesty, why do it? Cause if I saw a game doesn't ave what I can't live without, why inform people who like the game?

    I don't know just an observation expressed.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • david361107david361107 chattanooga, TNPosts: 279Member

    Don't really understand why this is so hard. All they need to do is keep the open area for PVP and in the non PVP area's just allow us to tag ourselves or not, this would make everyone happy.

     

    Peace

    Lascer

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ezduzit

    I have to agree. PVP zones or arena have no place in a future MMO. It's part of the same old crap that is proven ineffective to the pvp community.

     

    The DAoC model used in ESO for PvP is one well loved and reminisced by many hard core PvP fan. Myself included. They could not have picked a better PvP model IMO. Open world PvP everywhere mostly leads to two things. Players picking on low level chars and camping quest hubs. Or PvP groups spread out so thin you dont get much PvP action. All PvP focused on one big map means more large scale battles and removes the griefers. 

    You forget that in DAOC, there was no matchmaking PvP.  This made the battleground PvP so good.  I think many people forget that fact.  It was one of the greatest PvP games, not only because three faction PvP is great, but because it meant something as it was the only PvP that was available.

     

    ESO will not be like this.  This is why all of the three faction systems coming out recently have failed.  They look over the biggest issue, and that is matchmaking PvP taking precedence over open world PvP.  Since in all of these games, leveling up and repping up is faster in matchmaking PvP, thus giving you quicker rewards.  The same thing happened in Warhammer Online.  RvR lakes were barren, not because it was a bad game, but because the rewards were far greater and came much more quickly in instanced arenas.

     

     

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Wait a minute....

    So someone coming from an instanced pvp game war:woh

    Is calling a rvr style pvp setup "carebear"

    The mind boggles.

    Personally I think an eve style pvp setup would have suited the tes ip best, with varying security levels and the pvp driven by the economy. Heck they could even have used the tes guilds like thieves guild and what have you as "newbie corps".

    But that would radically change the game, and its too late now.

    Now given a choice between a daoc (not gw2) style setup or a wow style token flip a switch pvp server setup - DAOC style setup 1000%.

    Would rather play a game where there is actual outdoor pvp content and pvpers (and incidentally also crafters) get treated as equals than a wow style raiders first screw everybody else, chuck in a few pointless mini games and token flip a switch servers that'll shut them up system that just about every mmo if the past 9 frikin years has rammed down our throats.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Das

    Good news

    TESO does not have minigame pvp to go and hide in like war and gw2. It's ava or the highway much like daoc & planetside.
  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member
    Originally posted by david361107

    Don't really understand why this is so hard. All they need to do is keep the open area for PVP and in the non PVP area's just allow us to tag ourselves or not, this would make everyone happy.

     

    Peace

    Lascer

    WoW did it.  Everyone seems to like how they managed their PvP.  Most games haven't followed suit for some reason.  Of all of the 'WoW clone' BS floating around, this was one of the features that should have translated into other games, but it didn't.

     

    Opening areas are non-PvP, intermediate areas are partially PvP, higher level areas are all PvP.  

     

    If you go into an enemy faction zone that is non-PvP, you can't attack others unless they attack you first.  I do not understand why it wasn't done this way.  It is perfect for everyone.  I mean, the whole damn game is about the three factions at war, and they want to super carebear it up the way they have with faction locking zones and instancing enemy zones past 50?  

     

    It has to be incompetence at the top and with the developers and programmers.  They continue to blow smoke about not being able to do it the way the fans want it to be done, while games over a decade old have done it with flying colors.  Don't tell me it's a lack of money or time.  Gamers will wait ten years for a real ES Online game, done right.  Investors have to know this as it's one of the most popular IP's in existence.  I personally feel that these guys just simply don't have the talent or intelligence to make a game that ES fans actually want.  

  • eiekaleiekal Dearborn, MIPosts: 16Member

    RizelStar, we both know that ppl that cry and get supporters can change the game.  In general that is.  I dont think there is any hope for a change on this topic though :(

    What I think is happening here is When following the progress of a game being develeped, your personal hopes are tied up in the game and when you see those things important  to you thrown to the wayside, you just need to voice your displeasure.

    I bet people are just using the forums to share their two cents. But then again, I could be wrong hehe

  • Kuro1nKuro1n GothenburgPosts: 771Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ezduzit

    I have to agree. PVP zones or arena have no place in a future MMO. It's part of the same old crap that is proven ineffective to the pvp community.

     

    The DAoC model used in ESO for PvP is one well loved and reminisced by many hard core PvP fan. Myself included. They could not have picked a better PvP model IMO. Open world PvP everywhere mostly leads to two things. Players picking on low level chars and camping quest hubs. Or PvP groups spread out so thin you dont get much PvP action. All PvP focused on one big map means more large scale battles and removes the griefers. 

    Define "hardcore" because I do not think what you call hardcore is actually hardcore but rather normal PVP. Designated PVP spots is just esport crap.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Das

    Good news

    TESO does not have minigame pvp to go and hide in like war and gw2. It's ava or the highway much like daoc & planetside.

     

    You will need to prove this.  I've watched a lot of videos and read a ton of articles on the game.  I've not seen such a proclamation by them as to banish instanced arena PvP.

     

    If this is true, it would at least make the PvP mean something.  I still think there are a ton of flaws in the game, but at least PvP would have the correct setup.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by david361107

    Don't really understand why this is so hard. All they need to do is keep the open area for PVP and in the non PVP area's just allow us to tag ourselves or not, this would make everyone happy.

     

    Peace

    Lascer

    Flagging system does not make pure PvPers happy, as it easy to force someone to flag. 14 odd years of MMOing and I have seem more tricks then I can count on how to force someone to flag for PvP when they dont want to. Current system gives a place PvEers can do their thing and a huge map its so big it will feel like open world PvP for the PvPers. Dungeons, quests and PvP objectives. Its the best of both worlds.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    Ah those days where leveling was dangerous....
    Where sometimes you meet the other faction and instandly stand still and stare into the distance.....your oponent is staring at you....

    Slowly adrenaline is pumping in....you decide to rush and attack him....
    Your oponent does the same.....

    Your heart starts pumping faster and faster....

    Within a minute you totaly destroy your oponent and you stand at his corp and do a /salute emote and go on your business.


    Instead of this people want carebear mmo's where you can pick flowers and slay evil mosters with no danger of being attack or be the agressor....


    I get it, have fun in those mmo's :)
    But its a missed chanse to add alot of spice to a game that otherwise will be just boring mob grinding.

    To each his own taste offcourse, but ESO wasnt on my list 100% list and this just made it a 0% to play game for me :P


  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin

    And so the self-culling continues... good. Move along, nothing to see here.

    And OP... "medieval SWTOR" really wasn't so clever that it deserved posting here and here.

    +1 lol, good catch, more people and their ulterior motives. 

    There Is Always Hope!

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuro1n
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ezduzit

    I have to agree. PVP zones or arena have no place in a future MMO. It's part of the same old crap that is proven ineffective to the pvp community.

     

    The DAoC model used in ESO for PvP is one well loved and reminisced by many hard core PvP fan. Myself included. They could not have picked a better PvP model IMO. Open world PvP everywhere mostly leads to two things. Players picking on low level chars and camping quest hubs. Or PvP groups spread out so thin you dont get much PvP action. All PvP focused on one big map means more large scale battles and removes the griefers. 

    Define "hardcore" because I do not think what you call hardcore is actually hardcore but rather normal PVP. Designated PVP spots is just esport crap.

    People who play MMOs to live, eat and breath PvP, like me. If a MMO does not have a great PvP system in play its a stop over at best till something comes out that does. In my 14 years of MMOing, no one has done PvP better then DAoC. PvP thats set up for more then a leader board. PvP that has a deep impact and meaning to your faction. Thats the hard core PvPer I am talking about!!!!


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Das
    Matt frior said in some video "no arena, no battlegrounds, we want pvpers to focus on cyrodil" , also some stuff about it being pointless as there's a stack of mmos, mobas, arena games like smite etc.. doing the same thing. With ava they have less competition, just gw2 and ps2 (and cu in a few years)
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,611Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DAS1337

    WoW did it.  Everyone seems to like how they managed their PvP.   

    Actually we don't. I played in the Emerald Dream WOW RP/PVP server for many years... and I played DAoC before that for several years too. WOW open world PvP was a POS gankfest that consisted of max level stealthers ganking low-level "carebears" at quest hubs...sort of like a duel when only one of you knew you were dueling.

    It was really rare to find anything other than one vs. one ganking... even in the "glorious" vanilla WOW days. It went downhill from there. About the only organized group PvP that exists now is the weekly raid to go kill the boss of the opposing cities and get your reward mount. And people trying to organize that usually have to spam the trade channel for an hour or more to get enough people that don't already have the mount and want to do it.

    WOW open world PvP was to DAoC RvR like masturbation is to real sex. Mind you, some people do seem to prefer the former. I think the Brits have a term for that.

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AZHokie54

    Good!

    I'm sick and tired of great games getting ruined by trying to balance around PvP. 

     

     

     

    Totally agree with you. I'm still hurt that my Bright Wizard was destroyed in Warhammer lol, j/k :-)

    There Is Always Hope!

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Nan
    I like daoc & both planetsides

    But its not the most hardcore pvp style ive played, that would be eve & perpetuum.

    And then stuff like DF is even more hardcore than that.

    These people who think vanilla wow pvp servers were the hardest of hardcore though. Well its amusing. It's like your 10 year old nephew thinking he's a gangsta rapper or something.
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,611Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Nan
    I like daoc & both planetsides

    But its not the most hardcore pvp style ive played, that would be eve & perpetuum.

    And then stuff like DF is even more hardcore than that.

    These people who think vanilla wow pvp servers were the hardest of hardcore though. Well its amusing. It's like your 10 year old nephew thinking he's a gangsta rapper or something.

    That was so good it deserves a picture:

     

    I think the fat kid is also part Vulcan.

  • eiekaleiekal Dearborn, MIPosts: 16Member

    ShakyMo, I think I'm not alone in having to make comprimises.  Perhaps there is something in this game you'd rather not have but still you decide to play it because it's the best choice available to you that you've found?

    I love pvp formost and often dont pve in games where I dont need to.  I've leveled through pvp in games (rift, SWTOR) that allowed me to do so without pve.  Warhammer:wrath of heroes had some good things about it.  It was only pvp.  It had collision detection.  It rewarded positional attacks when wearing a certain rune. IT WAS ALSO FREE =D

    As I posted earlier, collision detection and positional attacks are important to me.

    You're right in that I've made comprimises and I've played games that dont have full loot which I call carebear.  If I made zero compromises in what I want in a pvp game, I'd be playing nothing :(

    Don't you cast that "no comprimise" first stone just because you found a game that gives you everything you want. You lucky dog, you.  I hate you! =D

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by david361107

    Don't really understand why this is so hard. All they need to do is keep the open area for PVP and in the non PVP area's just allow us to tag ourselves or not, this would make everyone happy.

     

    Peace

    Lascer

    Flagging system does not make pure PvPers happy, as it easy to force someone to flag. 14 odd years of MMOing and I have seem more tricks then I can count on how to force someone to flag for PvP when they dont want to. Current system gives a place PvEers can do their thing and a huge map its so big it will feel like open world PvP for the PvPers. Dungeons, quests and PvP objectives. Its the best of both worlds.

    You believe this because you look at MMO's differently than I do.  My first MMO was Ultima Online.  I believe in a world that can immerse you.  A world you can live in, make friends, build homes, and take pride in.  To do these things for me, a game has to have the right systems to make sense.  

     

    It's clear that you are less of a RPG'er, and more of a gamer.  You care less for immersion and things that make sense.  You focus more on what systems make the best game, rather than the best immersive world.  

     

    You want to know the biggest difference between us?  My preferred game will keep me happy for five years +.  Yours will keep you happen for a year if you are lucky.  

     

    There are ways to compromise, to make mostly everyone happy and also makes sense to the IP.  I'm the type of person who searches for those things, you are not.  

     

    And I've only once, in my 20 years of gaming been flagged for PvP when I didn't want to be.  That was my fault as I was macro'ing AFK while sleeping.  Something I have no interest in doing again.  You could never make me flag if I didn't want to.  I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself.  

  • ZedTheRockZedTheRock Florence, KYPosts: 172Member

    Just because a game features RvR (or in TESO's vernacular AvA) doesn't make it any less an open world PvP game.

     

    There are several defintions.

    Open World (features anywhere and zoned) either all the time or flagging

    Instanced (relegated to queuing for closed battlegrounds)

     

    TESO's PvP occurs in the world, just not in the whole world therefor it still remains World PvP, but because PvP is consentual without flagging it limits the activity to certain zones. 

     

    SUP

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by DAS1337

    WoW did it.  Everyone seems to like how they managed their PvP.   

    Actually we don't. I played in the Emerald Dream WOW RP/PVP server for many years... and I played DAoC before that for several years too. WOW open world PvP was a POS gankfest that consisted of max level stealthers ganking low-level "carebears" at quest hubs...sort of like a duel when only one of you knew you were dueling.

    It was really rare to find anything other than one vs. one ganking... even in the "glorious" vanilla WOW days. It went downhill from there. About the only organized group PvP that exists now is the weekly raid to go kill the boss of the opposing cities and get your reward mount. And people trying to organize that usually have to spam the trade channel for an hour or more to get enough people that don't already have the mount and want to do it.

    WOW open world PvP was to DAoC RvR like masturbation is to real sex. Mind you, some people do seem to prefer the former. I think the Brits have a term for that.

     

    Then leave the area, as there were several areas for you to level in.  One of the best things Blizzard did with their world was creating multiple areas to level in.  They protected the possibility to gank by allowing those players to level in multiple areas.  I've never had a problem with this.  Either I went to another area or I left for ten minutes, as they were always gone when I returned.

     

    I used my rogue to gank groups of two, thee and four on a regular basis.  I didn't do it for the sake of it, as I was protecting my mob spawn.  So while some people did it to feel strong by killing lower level people, I did it to feel strong by killing multiple people with a comparable level to my own.

     

    Though I get it, most people aren't like me.  

     

    Ultimately, I was talking about their flagging system, not their open world PvP.  Which you would have known if you actually read my post instead of taking one simple line out of context.  Though, also, most people don't know how to read either.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,611Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DAS1337
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by david361107

    Don't really understand why this is so hard. All they need to do is keep the open area for PVP and in the non PVP area's just allow us to tag ourselves or not, this would make everyone happy.

     

    Peace

    Lascer

    Flagging system does not make pure PvPers happy, as it easy to force someone to flag. 14 odd years of MMOing and I have seem more tricks then I can count on how to force someone to flag for PvP when they dont want to. Current system gives a place PvEers can do their thing and a huge map its so big it will feel like open world PvP for the PvPers. Dungeons, quests and PvP objectives. Its the best of both worlds.

    You believe this because you look at MMO's differently than I do.  My first MMO was Ultima Online.  I believe in a world that can immerse you.  A world you can live in, make friends, build homes, and take pride in.  To do these things for me, a game has to have the right systems to make sense.  

     

    It's clear that you are less of a RPG'er, and more of a gamer.  You care less for immersion and things that make sense.  You focus more on what systems make the best game, rather than the best immersive world.  

     

    You want to know the biggest difference between us?  My preferred game will keep me happy for five years +.  Yours will keep you happen for a year if you are lucky.  

     

    There are ways to compromise, to make mostly everyone happy and also makes sense to the IP.  I'm the type of person who searches for those things, you are not.  

     

    And I've only once, in my 20 years of gaming been flagged for PvP when I didn't want to be.  That was my fault as I was macro'ing AFK while sleeping.  Something I have no interest in doing again.  You could never make me flag if I didn't want to.  I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself.  

    Umm...lovely. That's certainly RPish, immersive and not gamey. image

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