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Why are MMO players so stupid?

amber-ramber-r londonPosts: 323Member

I see horrible, horrible tactics used in many mmos with their cash shops and I also see no laws in place to stop them.

 

You very often get a minority of players speaking out about tactics publishers and developers use in their cash shops but the majority of their players still buy them and still lose lots of money.  Why are mmo players just so stupid with their money to the point of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on random chance cosmetics and such?  A good company selling cosmetics for a flat fee makes a fraction of what a bad company can make with low chance lotto boxes designed to make you pay hundreds of dollars.

 

Even boycotting the cash shop does nothing because so many others will do it will still be profitable, if players stopped rewarding the bad behaviour used in these cash shops they would stop doing it.

 

I don't see this kind of practice anywhere else, you don't see new DLC for skyrim with a % chance to get it if you buy it.  You don't see it anywhere else, why do mmo players put up with it so readily?

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Comments

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member

    Umm i play all these MMOS with cash shop and i never spend a dime. It doesn't effect my gameplay at all but if someone has disposable income to spend on cosmetics and other fluff why are they stupid?

    What i find stupid is how people are so judgmental about how others decide to spend their hard earned money.

  • Mamba2Mamba2 MaroochydorePosts: 11Member
    Maybe the old "gambler instinct" that many have in Real Life!
  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 770Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by amber-r

    I see horrible, horrible tactics used in many mmos with their cash shops and I also see no laws in place to stop them.

     

    You very often get a minority of players speaking out about tactics publishers and developers use in their cash shops but the majority of their players still buy them and still lose lots of money.  Why are mmo players just so stupid with their money to the point of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on random chance cosmetics and such?  A good company selling cosmetics for a flat fee makes a fraction of what a bad company can make with low chance lotto boxes designed to make you pay hundreds of dollars.

     

    Even boycotting the cash shop does nothing because so many others will do it will still be profitable, if players stopped rewarding the bad behaviour used in these cash shops they would stop doing it.

     

    I don't see this kind of practice anywhere else, you don't see new DLC for skyrim with a % chance to get it if you buy it.  You don't see it anywhere else, why do mmo players put up with it so readily?

    What are you talking about?  If it is in the cash shop, you buy it, its gets delivered, you use it.  The only, gamble I have ever seen is in a certain Shooter where you played a ball game.  Basically you bought these colored balls from a slot machine in the hopes it would give you a weapon or something cool.  That I would not do.

    But most of the cash shops I have seen, the exception being what I mentioned above, are what you see is what you get.  Are people stupid for paying for their hobby?  I just put new bars and pipes on my bike, another hobby of mine, am I stupid for doing that?  I think not, it brings me happiness.  If people choose to spend money on games, their hobby, then so be it, it does not make them stupid at all.

    It might help immensely if you put some context, examples of what you are talking about in your post.  What games are you talking about.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    Originally posted by Hatefull
    Originally posted by amber-r

    I see horrible, horrible tactics used in many mmos with their cash shops and I also see no laws in place to stop them.

     

    You very often get a minority of players speaking out about tactics publishers and developers use in their cash shops but the majority of their players still buy them and still lose lots of money.  Why are mmo players just so stupid with their money to the point of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on random chance cosmetics and such?  A good company selling cosmetics for a flat fee makes a fraction of what a bad company can make with low chance lotto boxes designed to make you pay hundreds of dollars.

     

    Even boycotting the cash shop does nothing because so many others will do it will still be profitable, if players stopped rewarding the bad behaviour used in these cash shops they would stop doing it.

     

    I don't see this kind of practice anywhere else, you don't see new DLC for skyrim with a % chance to get it if you buy it.  You don't see it anywhere else, why do mmo players put up with it so readily?

    What are you talking about?  If it is in the cash shop, you buy it, its gets delivered, you use it.  The only, gamble I have ever seen is in a certain Shooter where you played a ball game.  Basically you bought these colored balls from a slot machine in the hopes it would give you a weapon or something cool.  That I would not do.

    But most of the cash shops I have seen, the exception being what I mentioned above, are you what you see is what you get.  Are people stupid for paying for their hobby?  I just put new bars and pipes on my bike, another hobby of mine, am I stupid for doing that?  I think not, it brings me happiness.  If people choose to spend money on games, their hobby, then so be it, it does not make them stupid at all.

    It might help immensely if you put some context, ie examples of what you are talking about in your post.  Right now, honestly you sound a bit crazy.

    I assume she's talking about lockboxes, such as are in STO and Atlantica to name 2.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • amber-ramber-r londonPosts: 323Member

    Look at the cash shop in Tera, this is one of the worst I've seen.  It's also in many other games though, just not quite as bad.

     

    http://tera.enmasse.com/game-guide/store-items/loot-boxes

     

    They release a new mount or cosmetic and the only way to get it is to buy a lotto box, you buy it and open it and have a low % chance to get the items you just paid for or trash, many seem to be spending hundreds on a chance to get these basic cosmetics.  Almost everything in the shop that they add is like that, you can't simply buy them you have to gamble.

     

    I just don't get why players keep buying this stuff to the point it's impossible to simply open the cash shop and buy an item without gambling.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member

    One can not legislate away stupidity. It rears its ugly head no matter what laws are in place.

    There are anti-racism laws (which is an oxymoron if I ever saw one) yet there are still racists around, in great numbers.

    Stupidity is part of the natural selection process. The stupid die out and end their gene pool. We humans try hard to combat this. Have "we" become better by our effort?

    Cash shops are a prime example of your question.
    So is "art."
    So is "perceived quality" in products and services.

    Does a $400 haircut look any better or last any longer than a $20 haircut?
    How about a $1000 suit vs. a $300 one? Both can be tailored to fit well.
    Is a $300,000 Lamborghini 10x better than a $30,000 Chevy? Depends. Both get you from point A to B well. I guess "style" factors in there somewhere :)

    People will spend money on what they want to. It is their money, after all. Everyone places different values on different things. Should there be laws to stop them from spending as they see fit?

    I personally HATE cash shops and all they stand for. Doesn't mean they should not exist as others enjoy them. Quite a bit, apparently.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon

    The MMO playerbase is large enough that it can be considered average.

    What you are seeing is the product of the average intelligence.

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member

    You should change the question ... why are people so stupid, would be more accurate.

    Anyway, it is really stupid question to begin with .. lol

  • PiechunksPiechunks ProvincePosts: 136Member
    Originally posted by Fraught
    Maybe the old "gambler instinct" that many have in Real Life!

     

    This. That's all there is to it. Some people get addicted to gambling. They consciously know they are going to lose financially, but they have to do it, because they are compelled to do so (a form of obsessive compulsion).

    The worst about it is that they are basically bypassing gambling laws, regulations and even targeting kids in the process.

    It's just a matter of time before some kid gambles away his familys fortune on virtual items and the company gets sued for it.

     

    We're still in sort of a "wild west" phase of online gaming. South Korea has definitely gone in the right direction, but you've all played their games and know better (plenty of gambling components).

     

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,548Member Uncommon

    Some humans are predisposed toward gambling.  It's like trying to figure out why some smoke, some drink, some are politically driven.  

     


  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common
    I am doing my part by not playing mmorpg's anymore.  Dont big portion of current design, industry trends and I don't accept microtransaction game enviroment.  
  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    To all those who say they will not play F2P games and will do everything in their limited powers that their petty minds think is great to stop the trend... I thank you for the former.

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  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon
    In a way, its fine for me since I won't spend on gambling items. On the other hand, its basically taking advantage of people and trying to make them sink their money away without any reward. If its cosmetics, I can live with it but at the same time It does feel a bit 'scum-baggy' of sorts.
  • allendale5allendale5 kansas city, MOPosts: 124Member
    damn you OP, please hush up about this.  You are ruining our master plan of being able to continuously play games for free while letting other people fund the game by buying elegant earrings and dolphin shaped facial tattoos.
  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by allendale5
    damn you OP, please hush up about this.  You are ruining our master plan of being able to continuously play games for free while letting other people fund the game by buying elegant earrings and dolphin shaped facial tattoos.

    I bought a e-peen extension for my GWF halfling in Neverwinter Online... now he's not dragging only his sword around... (I had to make that joke, sorry XD).

    image
  • AyulinAyulin Mt marion, NYPosts: 334Member
    Originally posted by Whitebeards

    Umm i play all these MMOS with cash shop and i never spend a dime. It doesn't effect my gameplay at all but if someone has disposable income to spend on cosmetics and other fluff why are they stupid?

    The spenders keep the game running so  you can play for free. Of course you're not going to consider them "stupid".

    And the presence of a Cash Shop is very much affecting your gameplay. By design a MMO with a Cash Shop is affecting your gameplay. Your personal playstyle may not be so affected by it, you may be able to ignore the cash-shop driven elements designed into the game. You may be "okay" with it. But it's very much affecting your gameplay.

    What i find stupid is how people are so judgmental about how others decide to spend their hard earned money.

    Want to know what's stupid? The number of people who argue against sub fees, insisting $15 a month "isn't worth it", call it a "rip off" or "scam", bash those who prefer subs over F2P/Cash Shops, then turn around, spend many times that on virtual items and lottery boxes, and argue that it's a better value for their money, "because the game is free".

    They're spending who knows how much on virtual items in a single week, nevermind a month, and then argue it's a better value for their money because there's no sub fee.

    Only a human mind capable of some amazing mental gymnastics can argue that and consider it logical and reasonable.

    No wonder cash shop MMOs make so much, with people so willing to delude themselves.

     

     

  • ElderRatElderRat Syracuse, NYPosts: 899Member
    Originally posted by amber-r

    I see horrible, horrible tactics used in many mmos with their cash shops and I also see no laws in place to stop them.

     

    You very often get a minority of players speaking out about tactics publishers and developers use in their cash shops but the majority of their players still buy them and still lose lots of money.  Why are mmo players just so stupid with their money to the point of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on random chance cosmetics and such?  A good company selling cosmetics for a flat fee makes a fraction of what a bad company can make with low chance lotto boxes designed to make you pay hundreds of dollars.

     

    Even boycotting the cash shop does nothing because so many others will do it will still be profitable, if players stopped rewarding the bad behaviour used in these cash shops they would stop doing it.

     

    I don't see this kind of practice anywhere else, you don't see new DLC for skyrim with a % chance to get it if you buy it.  You don't see it anywhere else, why do mmo players put up with it so readily?

    Now we have kickstarters where they ask you for money before they have code in some cases. What happens if the game is never delivered?

    Currently bored with MMO's.

  • AyulinAyulin Mt marion, NYPosts: 334Member
    Originally posted by ElderRat
    Originally posted by amber-r

    I see horrible, horrible tactics used in many mmos with their cash shops and I also see no laws in place to stop them.

     

    You very often get a minority of players speaking out about tactics publishers and developers use in their cash shops but the majority of their players still buy them and still lose lots of money.  Why are mmo players just so stupid with their money to the point of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on random chance cosmetics and such?  A good company selling cosmetics for a flat fee makes a fraction of what a bad company can make with low chance lotto boxes designed to make you pay hundreds of dollars.

     

    Even boycotting the cash shop does nothing because so many others will do it will still be profitable, if players stopped rewarding the bad behaviour used in these cash shops they would stop doing it.

     

    I don't see this kind of practice anywhere else, you don't see new DLC for skyrim with a % chance to get it if you buy it.  You don't see it anywhere else, why do mmo players put up with it so readily?

    Now we have kickstarters where they ask you for money before they have code in some cases. What happens if the game is never delivered?

    What if I buy a bag that says it has 12 - 14 apples, but it only has 11, and I already paid for it?

    Oh, we're not bringing up completely irrelevant topics? Oh, my bad. I was just following your lead with the kickstarter bit.

  • KniknaxKniknax LeicesterPosts: 567Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by amber-r

    I see horrible, horrible tactics used in many mmos with their cash shops and I also see no laws in place to stop them.

     

    You very often get a minority of players speaking out about tactics publishers and developers use in their cash shops but the majority of their players still buy them and still lose lots of money.  Why are mmo players just so stupid with their money to the point of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on random chance cosmetics and such?  A good company selling cosmetics for a flat fee makes a fraction of what a bad company can make with low chance lotto boxes designed to make you pay hundreds of dollars.

     

    Even boycotting the cash shop does nothing because so many others will do it will still be profitable, if players stopped rewarding the bad behaviour used in these cash shops they would stop doing it.

     

    I don't see this kind of practice anywhere else, you don't see new DLC for skyrim with a % chance to get it if you buy it.  You don't see it anywhere else, why do mmo players put up with it so readily?

    "You dont see it anywhere else"..... have you never heard of the Lottery? Las Vegas? the Horse racing? Football? Basketball? Sports in general? Casinos? Roulette? Poker? 

    Some folk enjoy gambling, and if they have the cash to do so, then its their choice as a adult.

    "When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright

  • AyulinAyulin Mt marion, NYPosts: 334Member
    Originally posted by Kniknax
    Originally posted by amber-r

    I see horrible, horrible tactics used in many mmos with their cash shops and I also see no laws in place to stop them.

     

    You very often get a minority of players speaking out about tactics publishers and developers use in their cash shops but the majority of their players still buy them and still lose lots of money.  Why are mmo players just so stupid with their money to the point of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on random chance cosmetics and such?  A good company selling cosmetics for a flat fee makes a fraction of what a bad company can make with low chance lotto boxes designed to make you pay hundreds of dollars.

     

    Even boycotting the cash shop does nothing because so many others will do it will still be profitable, if players stopped rewarding the bad behaviour used in these cash shops they would stop doing it.

     

    I don't see this kind of practice anywhere else, you don't see new DLC for skyrim with a % chance to get it if you buy it.  You don't see it anywhere else, why do mmo players put up with it so readily?

    "You dont see it anywhere else"..... have you never heard of the Lottery? Las Vegas? the Horse racing? Football? Basketball? Sports in general? Casinos? Roulette? Poker? 

    Some folk enjoy gambling, and if they have the cash to do so, then its their choice as a adult.

    We're talking video games, not brick and mortar casinos and sports books.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    I have never understood why people care so much about how others spend their money. Get over it!
  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,572Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ayulin
    Originally posted by Kniknax
    Originally posted by amber-r

    I see horrible, horrible tactics used in many mmos with their cash shops and I also see no laws in place to stop them.

     

    You very often get a minority of players speaking out about tactics publishers and developers use in their cash shops but the majority of their players still buy them and still lose lots of money.  Why are mmo players just so stupid with their money to the point of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on random chance cosmetics and such?  A good company selling cosmetics for a flat fee makes a fraction of what a bad company can make with low chance lotto boxes designed to make you pay hundreds of dollars.

     

    Even boycotting the cash shop does nothing because so many others will do it will still be profitable, if players stopped rewarding the bad behaviour used in these cash shops they would stop doing it.

     

    I don't see this kind of practice anywhere else, you don't see new DLC for skyrim with a % chance to get it if you buy it.  You don't see it anywhere else, why do mmo players put up with it so readily?

    "You dont see it anywhere else"..... have you never heard of the Lottery? Las Vegas? the Horse racing? Football? Basketball? Sports in general? Casinos? Roulette? Poker? 

    Some folk enjoy gambling, and if they have the cash to do so, then its their choice as a adult.

    We're talking video games, not brick and mortar casinos and sports books.

    Why should video games be free of gambling?

    image
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Dihoru
    To all those who say they will not play F2P games and will do everything in their limited powers that their petty minds think is great to stop the trend... I thank you for the former.
    Cool video! I was interested enough to go to the website for Blackbird Interactive to take a peek. Ho-boy...

    "Pre-Purchase the Prospector's Guide ($49.99)"
    $50 for a freaking manual? Oh, and beta access, too.

    10,000 First Wave VIP packages available.
    "Pre-Purchase the Prospector's Guide + First Wave VIP Package ($99.99)"
    That is $999,900 they want up front from players.

    Have fun! I can see clearly why they are making this game and it is not for "fun."

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by amber-r

    Look at the cash shop in Tera, this is one of the worst I've seen.  It's also in many other games though, just not quite as bad.

     

    http://tera.enmasse.com/game-guide/store-items/loot-boxes

     

    They release a new mount or cosmetic and the only way to get it is to buy a lotto box, you buy it and open it and have a low % chance to get the items you just paid for or trash, many seem to be spending hundreds on a chance to get these basic cosmetics.  Almost everything in the shop that they add is like that, you can't simply buy them you have to gamble.

     

    I just don't get why players keep buying this stuff to the point it's impossible to simply open the cash shop and buy an item without gambling.

    Part of this might be regional differences.

    Years ago, at a GenCon, I was speaking with the head GM of Lineage 2. Besides telling me some interesting tidbits about L2's development he mentioned the dice that were in the game.

    He indicated that the Koreans really liked gambling and it was something that was very popular in their online games. The dice were for betting.

    So when I see these lockboxes in Tera and Aion I am reminded of this info that was given to me.

    People do like to gamble and personally I see nothing wrong with it as long as it's done for fun and you aren't running the deed to your house through the credit card machine.

     

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Dihoru
    To all those who say they will not play F2P games and will do everything in their limited powers that their petty minds think is great to stop the trend... I thank you for the former.

    Cool video! I was interested enough to go to the website for Blackbird Interactive to take a peek. Ho-boy...

     

    "Pre-Purchase the Prospector's Guide ($49.99)"
    $50 for a freaking manual? Oh, and beta access, too.

    10,000 First Wave VIP packages available.
    "Pre-Purchase the Prospector's Guide + First Wave VIP Package ($99.99)"
    That is $999,900 they want up front from players.

    Have fun! I can see clearly why they are making this game and it is not for "fun."

    A pre-purchase is a pre-purchase... need I really point out MMORPG B2P/P2P collector's editions? or regular games with pre-purchases. The first one is a pre-purchase, the second is a collector's edition, at least they limit the latter, last I checked SWtOR made quite a few million off limited edition collector's editions during the pre-purchase period alone :P.

     

    Also the prospector's guide is part manual part something else, I am not quite sure what exactly but they're talking as if it's a manual and a sort of storyline progression tool which gets updated when they push the story along, how I have no clue but one thing I will point out: Come launch everyone gets one so it isn't an exclusive, the First wave VIPs get some cosmetic stuff and artbooks for the game if memory serves. Again where's the issue?

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