Yea man GW2 e-sports ! So many people excited! So many people interested!
Those 203 views on twitch man! Biggest E-Sports game 2013! Pff let's see League of Legends try and bit that with their 140k views on average or wow with their 1000 views on average!
Yea no, GW2 will never become a big esports for 5 simple reasons.
1) It's boring to watch, one thing that has been stated time and time again the clustersmash of particle effects makes the game uninteresting and impossible to follow.
2) Inaccessible
3) The game has a high skill cap but a low skill ceiling. Various top players have mentioned this, and many left because of this and many more will.
4)Lack of diversity in builds, playstyle and pvp types. All of the classes expect Ele, Eng and Ranger can play up to one role in competitive play, the terribly build trait system locks professions into set roles.
5)Spvp, is on deaths door with the majority of people PVEing and having no interest in spvp why because it's boring.
Hmm?
Skill cap and skill ceiling are the same thing.
Game has a low skill floor, build stagnation and format give the impression it has a lower skill ceiling than it actually has.
They are not maybe i should of said learning curve instead of skill cap.
Skill cap or skill ceiling means the level at which you cant tell two players of different skill apart.
Skill floor on the other hand is how easy to play a certain thing at a competent level.
Learning curve is how long it takes for one to understand the basics of the game.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
its not any kind of sport yet so how could it be e-sport in the future? it wont.
when theres no strategy or skill based gameplay it will be extremely dull to watch.
they need to add real targeting ,1000 new skills and add hitboxes where to aim,then maybe or make moba like maps.
edit:and if they are thinking about mobas ,theres allready much more interesting games like Super MNC and compared that action,gw2 does not have a chance.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
its not any kind of sport yet so how could it be e-sport in the future? it wont.
when theres no strategy or skill based gameplay it will be extremely dull to watch.
they need to add real targeting ,1000 new skills and add hitboxes where to aim,then maybe or make moba like maps.
edit:and if they are thinking about mobas ,theres allready much more interesting games like Super MNC and compared that action,gw2 does not have a chance.
Gonna bookmark this thread for quoting in the future.
Nice necro, btw.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
its not any kind of sport yet so how could it be e-sport in the future? it wont.
when theres no strategy or skill based gameplay it will be extremely dull to watch.
they need to add real targeting ,1000 new skills and add hitboxes where to aim,then maybe or make moba like maps.
edit:and if they are thinking about mobas ,theres allready much more interesting games like Super MNC and compared that action,gw2 does not have a chance.
This post is going to be slightly bias and maybe even a tad ignorant. So if im wrong on any of my points please politely let me know.
I took one or two days recently to get into this spvp thing and it seemed like a fail. I tried to give it a chance but it seems like it lacks this certain addictive property that games like league of legends and call of duty has. Hard to put my finger on it, but in both of the other games i mentioned there are rare occasions when u can feel like a total bad a$$. i dont get that in GW2. It gets boring after 15-30mins.
Plus i dont like the matchmaking system, im not sure if i dont understand it very well but i dont like that people can drop out and join at any time interfering with the flow of game and i dont know if someone has dropped and left my team at a disavantage. Plus seems to be a slight imbalance with the thief job. No matter what job im playing, mes, ele, rng, war im always getting owned by thiefs. and its the only job that is a threat to me. Everybody needs to be on common ground as far as threat is concerned.
In gw1 i could join a pug group in any pvp and still have fun, not so much with gw2. and there isnt any progression that a casual pvper like me is interested in. at least in my opinion anyways.
Plus im on the most crowded server, JQ and i cant find anyone to get a good group for spvp any more. im in a couple of the largest guilds on the server and nobody ever wants to spvp.
I love gw2 and i love pvp but this is one area id like to see getting some more love.
I can see a lot of people here don't really know much about esports.... Let me add some clarity to your ignorance.
1. WoW was an esport starting in early TBC, it was picked up by MLG, ESL/IEM, and WSVG. It also had a short stint in CGS.
It remained an esport for YEARS with viewer counts decimating every other games online viewer counts. (Only eventually dwarfed by LoL after the big streaming boom)
2. Arenanet hosted 100k tournament, not 1million dollar tournament. For their gw1 stuff. You can not argue about blizzard hosting their own tournaments and funding them, when anet to this date has done it as well, at a much less frequent rate, with smaller prize pools.
3. LoL is an absolutely humongous esport right now, it is riding a bubble that probably won't pop for another year or two.
4. SC2 is past it's prime as an esport, viewer counts have actually dwindled and sc2 was actually never a gigantic hit in korea.
5. WoW pvp right now is easy access to all, anyone can get the best pvp gear regardless of how proficient they are at the game.
GW2 will not be the big esport of 2013, even if ESL picks it up, that doesn't mean it has it made. WoW lasted many years in multiple leagues, if GW2 can do the same, with relatively similar viewer counts... then we can talk about gw2 being a legitimate esport. But I already know if GW2 gets casted the viewer counts won't be very high, and look forward to the excuses people will make at that point.
GW2, if it does become an esport, will have a small but loyal following. Everyone wants to pretend their game is the best in the world, but the bottom line is, if a game doesn't have a huge competitive scene, the players can not get to a very high skill level. You need tons of people pushing the limits and giving you constant high-grade practice.
It's still baffling to me how distorted people see gw2 relative to the esport landscape... It literally has zero chance of becoming even 1/10th as popular as the biggest esport (LoL).
As of right now on Twitch there are 37 games with more viewers than GW2. Recent blockbuster hits such as Super Mario 64, WarZ, Hey, you Pickachu, and Magic the Gathering all have more viewers than GW2. There is just zero interest in this game as an e-sport. Nobody wants to watch it. It's a good game, but an e-sport, or even a popular game to stream it is not.
Originally posted by Xirik People still play this game?
uh...its still the second most succesfull mmo on the west so take that as you may
By what metric?
ANy other mmo has sold over 3 million copies in the last 5 years apart from WoW?
ontopic: The big e-sport this year isnt gona be lol or sc2 and even less gw2, its going to be(and currently is) dota 2. The international right now has the biggest pool of winnings in e-sport history with over 2m dollars.
good 3 million people bought it at some point. bout can you tell me the number of people still playing right now?
"You have some serious mental issues you may need to seek some help for. There are others who post things, but do not post them in the way you do. Out of every person who posts crazy shit in this forum, you have some of the craziest and scariest" -FarReach
Originally posted by Xirik People still play this game?
uh...its still the second most succesfull mmo on the west so take that as you may
By what metric?
ANy other mmo has sold over 3 million copies in the last 5 years apart from WoW?
rift? swtor?? aoc??? most mmo's are f2p nowadays. the pvp in gw2 is definately not successful.
never said anything about pvp, just how sucesfull the game was, sicne the original quote said no one played the game.
Also no, none of them even sold over 2m copies so you are wrong.
"the two million mark, surpassing all previous MMOs for box sales at launch. Even before the official launch of the game, BioWare had to add new servers because of the number of people in early access. The day before the official launch, some queue times were over two hours, and at that time, there were 140 servers. Life was insane at BioWare to say the least."
Originally posted by Xirik People still play this game?
uh...its still the second most succesfull mmo on the west so take that as you may
By what metric?
ANy other mmo has sold over 3 million copies in the last 5 years apart from WoW?
So units sold globally equates to being successful in the west? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't exactly follow the logic.
Sucessfull games tend to have a good amount of players. At least in my experience
I agree, but copies sold since release does not equate to current playerbase. Meh, I don't feel like splitting hairs about it, so I'm happy to leave it at that.
Originally posted by Xirik People still play this game?
uh...its still the second most succesfull mmo on the west so take that as you may
By what metric?
ANy other mmo has sold over 3 million copies in the last 5 years apart from WoW?
So units sold globally equates to being successful in the west? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't exactly follow the logic.
Sucessfull games tend to have a good amount of players. At least in my experience
I agree, but copies sold since release does not equate to current playerbase. Meh, I don't feel like splitting hairs about it, so I'm happy to leave it at that.
I can always point out ques at WvW and overflows in half the servers but what would that do? it would be taken as anecdotal experience. We can only go by the numbers we are told.
If this open, unscripted discussion with the developers is anything to go by:
GW2 is set for huge e-sport success.
They are very clear that they are not rushing it, but the announced balance changes, the pacing of changes, the way they are approaching their PVP game is fantastic.
I also LOVED the fact that this guy says clearly that some noobs just need to L2P. That kind of frankness only comes from someone who plays the game extensively himself, a developer who is also a competitive player = awesome.
No bullcrap, no marketing spin, just a skilled PVP developer with opinions and ideas who is open about discussing with the players.
You can tell this guy really cares about balance and competitive gaming above all, and that's exactly what you want.
Let's face it, PVP in other MMOs like SWTOR, WoW, Aion, AOC, etc is a joke. No one takes it seriously, and no MMO has e-sport PVP. It's too unbalanced.
GW2 has a very good chance at it because it's already the most balanced MMO, and about to become even more balanced in every little detail.
I think that with the mindset displayed in the video, they might have the biggest esport game of 2013.
Anyway, just watch it in full and make up your own mind.
E-Sport???
I had to laugh my friend, no offense. GW2 isn't made for E-Sport. Maybe if you wish hard enough... but I can not imagine that this game will be played in E-Sport. What exactly is balanced in this MMO in terms of PvP? It is for a reason that there are only 1% of MMOs participating in E-Sports. And this is because of the design of MMOs that are not layed out to be equal. MMOs want you to feel that you have advantage over others, dominate others.
And domination has nothing to do with sports. Domination might be a coincidence when the moral of the other team is down, for some reason. But in Every Sport On This Planet, each team has equal opportunities to start with.
Simple example: Check out ESL if you live in the EU and see what kind of Games they offer and how few MMOs are in there. As far as I am correct, not even WoW is participating anymore.
If You or Anyone wants to participate in Esport, join Multiplayer titles and dont even bother with MMOs.
Originally posted by Xirik People still play this game?
uh...its still the second most succesfull mmo on the west so take that as you may
By what metric?
ANy other mmo has sold over 3 million copies in the last 5 years apart from WoW?
rift? swtor?? aoc??? most mmo's are f2p nowadays. the pvp in gw2 is definately not successful.
never said anything about pvp, just how sucesfull the game was, sicne the original quote said no one played the game.
Also no, none of them even sold over 2m copies so you are wrong.
"the two million mark, surpassing all previous MMOs for box sales at launch. Even before the official launch of the game, BioWare had to add new servers because of the number of people in early access. The day before the official launch, some queue times were over two hours, and at that time, there were 140 servers. Life was insane at BioWare to say the least."
swtor sold 2 million copies before launch.
Ah yes i forgot, it got to 2.1m i believe and then went downhill. Its still not near 3m+ of guild wars 2 which will continue to grow and swtor cant since the base game is free
If this open, unscripted discussion with the developers is anything to go by:
GW2 is set for huge e-sport success.
They are very clear that they are not rushing it, but the announced balance changes, the pacing of changes, the way they are approaching their PVP game is fantastic.
I also LOVED the fact that this guy says clearly that some noobs just need to L2P. That kind of frankness only comes from someone who plays the game extensively himself, a developer who is also a competitive player = awesome.
No bullcrap, no marketing spin, just a skilled PVP developer with opinions and ideas who is open about discussing with the players.
You can tell this guy really cares about balance and competitive gaming above all, and that's exactly what you want.
Let's face it, PVP in other MMOs like SWTOR, WoW, Aion, AOC, etc is a joke. No one takes it seriously, and no MMO has e-sport PVP. It's too unbalanced.
GW2 has a very good chance at it because it's already the most balanced MMO, and about to become even more balanced in every little detail.
I think that with the mindset displayed in the video, they might have the biggest esport game of 2013.
Anyway, just watch it in full and make up your own mind.
E-Sport???
I had to laugh my friend, no offense. GW2 isn't made for E-Sport. Maybe if you wish hard enough... but I can not imagine that this game will be played in E-Sport. What exactly is balanced in this MMO in terms of PvP? It is for a reason that there are only 1% of MMOs participating in E-Sports. And this is because of the design of MMOs that are not layed out to be equal. MMOs want you to feel that you have advantage over others, dominate others.
And domination has nothing to do with sports. Domination might be a coincidence when the moral of the other team is down, for some reason. But in Every Sport On This Planet, each team has equal opportunities to start with.
Simple example: Check out ESL if you live in the EU and see what kind of Games they offer and how few MMOs are in there. As far as I am correct, not even WoW is participating anymore.
If You or Anyone wants to participate in Esport, join Multiplayer titles and dont even bother with MMOs.
But they do, at least in GW2, everyone in pvp has the same gear and cant go up in stats, and i think in WoW you are given max equipment for tournaments.
The reason why guild wars and WoW are not good e-sports games is because the games focus on other stuff, most eposrt games focus solely on that.
Comments
Skill cap or skill ceiling means the level at which you cant tell two players of different skill apart.
Skill floor on the other hand is how easy to play a certain thing at a competent level.
Learning curve is how long it takes for one to understand the basics of the game.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
its not any kind of sport yet so how could it be e-sport in the future? it wont.
when theres no strategy or skill based gameplay it will be extremely dull to watch.
they need to add real targeting ,1000 new skills and add hitboxes where to aim,then maybe or make moba like maps.
edit:and if they are thinking about mobas ,theres allready much more interesting games like Super MNC and compared that action,gw2 does not have a chance.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
My gaming blog
1000 skills? Where do I sign up?
Less than 200 people watching the game on Twitch, SWTOR and Tera consistently has higher numbers.
About 200 people on GW2 sPvP servers during Primetime across all their servers.
This dream will never become reality.
Gonna bookmark this thread for quoting in the future.
Nice necro, btw.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
http://www.lastmanut.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/AOSkills2WebPage/aoskills2.html there
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
This post is going to be slightly bias and maybe even a tad ignorant. So if im wrong on any of my points please politely let me know.
I took one or two days recently to get into this spvp thing and it seemed like a fail. I tried to give it a chance but it seems like it lacks this certain addictive property that games like league of legends and call of duty has. Hard to put my finger on it, but in both of the other games i mentioned there are rare occasions when u can feel like a total bad a$$. i dont get that in GW2. It gets boring after 15-30mins.
Plus i dont like the matchmaking system, im not sure if i dont understand it very well but i dont like that people can drop out and join at any time interfering with the flow of game and i dont know if someone has dropped and left my team at a disavantage. Plus seems to be a slight imbalance with the thief job. No matter what job im playing, mes, ele, rng, war im always getting owned by thiefs. and its the only job that is a threat to me. Everybody needs to be on common ground as far as threat is concerned.
In gw1 i could join a pug group in any pvp and still have fun, not so much with gw2. and there isnt any progression that a casual pvper like me is interested in. at least in my opinion anyways.
Plus im on the most crowded server, JQ and i cant find anyone to get a good group for spvp any more. im in a couple of the largest guilds on the server and nobody ever wants to spvp.
I love gw2 and i love pvp but this is one area id like to see getting some more love.
http://medias.luna-atra.fr/gw2/char_tool/CT_imageGenerator.php?pseudo=Centurion Mikal&lang=EN&code=&code=TSwtLDUsLSw2LC0sMjksOSwyMiwyMywyNCwtLDEwMiwzNiw4MSw4NCw4OQ==
I can see a lot of people here don't really know much about esports.... Let me add some clarity to your ignorance.
1. WoW was an esport starting in early TBC, it was picked up by MLG, ESL/IEM, and WSVG. It also had a short stint in CGS.
It remained an esport for YEARS with viewer counts decimating every other games online viewer counts. (Only eventually dwarfed by LoL after the big streaming boom)
2. Arenanet hosted 100k tournament, not 1million dollar tournament. For their gw1 stuff. You can not argue about blizzard hosting their own tournaments and funding them, when anet to this date has done it as well, at a much less frequent rate, with smaller prize pools.
3. LoL is an absolutely humongous esport right now, it is riding a bubble that probably won't pop for another year or two.
4. SC2 is past it's prime as an esport, viewer counts have actually dwindled and sc2 was actually never a gigantic hit in korea.
5. WoW pvp right now is easy access to all, anyone can get the best pvp gear regardless of how proficient they are at the game.
GW2 will not be the big esport of 2013, even if ESL picks it up, that doesn't mean it has it made. WoW lasted many years in multiple leagues, if GW2 can do the same, with relatively similar viewer counts... then we can talk about gw2 being a legitimate esport. But I already know if GW2 gets casted the viewer counts won't be very high, and look forward to the excuses people will make at that point.
GW2, if it does become an esport, will have a small but loyal following. Everyone wants to pretend their game is the best in the world, but the bottom line is, if a game doesn't have a huge competitive scene, the players can not get to a very high skill level. You need tons of people pushing the limits and giving you constant high-grade practice.
It's still baffling to me how distorted people see gw2 relative to the esport landscape... It literally has zero chance of becoming even 1/10th as popular as the biggest esport (LoL).
uh...its still the second most succesfull mmo on the west so take that as you may
By what metric?
ANy other mmo has sold over 3 million copies in the last 5 years apart from WoW?
ontopic: The big e-sport this year isnt gona be lol or sc2 and even less gw2, its going to be(and currently is) dota 2. The international right now has the biggest pool of winnings in e-sport history with over 2m dollars.
rift? swtor?? aoc??? most mmo's are f2p nowadays. the pvp in gw2 is definately not successful.
never said anything about pvp, just how sucesfull the game was, sicne the original quote said no one played the game.
Also no, none of them even sold over 2m copies so you are wrong.
So units sold globally equates to being successful in the west? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't exactly follow the logic.
"You have some serious mental issues you may need to seek some help for. There are others who post things, but do not post them in the way you do. Out of every person who posts crazy shit in this forum, you have some of the craziest and scariest" -FarReach
Sucessfull games tend to have a good amount of players. At least in my experience
I wouldnt know but there are still ques and overflows in about half the servers of the game so i guess theres sill people playing the game
"the two million mark, surpassing all previous MMOs for box sales at launch. Even before the official launch of the game, BioWare had to add new servers because of the number of people in early access. The day before the official launch, some queue times were over two hours, and at that time, there were 140 servers. Life was insane at BioWare to say the least."
swtor sold 2 million copies before launch.
I agree, but copies sold since release does not equate to current playerbase. Meh, I don't feel like splitting hairs about it, so I'm happy to leave it at that.
I can always point out ques at WvW and overflows in half the servers but what would that do? it would be taken as anecdotal experience. We can only go by the numbers we are told.
E-Sport???
I had to laugh my friend, no offense. GW2 isn't made for E-Sport. Maybe if you wish hard enough... but I can not imagine that this game will be played in E-Sport. What exactly is balanced in this MMO in terms of PvP? It is for a reason that there are only 1% of MMOs participating in E-Sports. And this is because of the design of MMOs that are not layed out to be equal. MMOs want you to feel that you have advantage over others, dominate others.
And domination has nothing to do with sports. Domination might be a coincidence when the moral of the other team is down, for some reason. But in Every Sport On This Planet, each team has equal opportunities to start with.
Simple example: Check out ESL if you live in the EU and see what kind of Games they offer and how few MMOs are in there. As far as I am correct, not even WoW is participating anymore.
If You or Anyone wants to participate in Esport, join Multiplayer titles and dont even bother with MMOs.
Ah yes i forgot, it got to 2.1m i believe and then went downhill. Its still not near 3m+ of guild wars 2 which will continue to grow and swtor cant since the base game is free
But they do, at least in GW2, everyone in pvp has the same gear and cant go up in stats, and i think in WoW you are given max equipment for tournaments.
The reason why guild wars and WoW are not good e-sports games is because the games focus on other stuff, most eposrt games focus solely on that.