I really like EQ's harsh death penalty. To me it came in two parts negative and two recovery parts:
1. loss of XP was huge at High levels, to me that's as it should be. 1a. rez stick - 90% recovery, or just high level healer rez 2. loss of gear unless you can recover it 2a. coffin out corpse, which seemed expensive, but got your gear back.
Maybe it was because I was a cleric. It sure got me into some hairy messes, I still have some nightmares after my first open Fear Raid.
1) i agree, as long as there is no hell levels and you don't have to take off gear. So the stats on gear should go down but it should not force you to remove it.
2) rez stick brought back 95% of experience lost, unless you used the clerics final rez spell which brought back 99% of exp lost.
3) Loss of gear I think should not be brought back, as I said in one it should allow you to keep your gear but reduce your stats from gear due to level loss etc.
4) Do not allow items for corpse recovery, I want EQnext to bring back the Druid/Wizard/Necromancer class dependency which I feel added to the community as a whole. You could not travel quickly without a Druid or Wizard from zone to zone. Also the need to get SOW for fast moving I think was awesome and it really brought the community together because higher level players would sometimes come to lower level areas to help out noobs etc or charge a price for buffs etc.
I think the problem with current MMO's is that they try to create so much convenience for everyone without understanding that it takes away from the overall game by decreasing the amount of community interaction.
if you die you lose XP. You then respawn. Naked. You then are given an option of full respawn. Meaning your given your gear but the XP is lost permanantly. I would even say you can choose to do a full respawn later. The option is available on your character sheet untill you get a Rez, get your corpse or give up.
also I would say if you do decide to take the full gear respawn, not only do you take the full xp hit but also gain 50%xp debt for like an hour. Don't increase the percentage. Increase the time the debt lasts for each time you earn more. And if you log off it does not just go away. You only decrease it while playing.
if you die you lose XP. You then respawn. Naked. You then are given an option of full respawn. Meaning your given your gear but the XP is lost permanantly. I would even say you can choose to do a full respawn later. The option is available on your character sheet untill you get a Rez, get your corpse or give up.
also I would say if you do decide to take the full gear respawn, not only do you take the full xp hit but also gain 50%xp debt for like an hour. Don't increase the percentage. Increase the time the debt lasts for each time you earn more. And if you log off it does not just go away. You only decrease it while playing.
Excellent idea!!!
If there was a vote, I'd vote for this. Then everyone gets what they want, but now, sadly, ppl will cry that they lose xp because they take the easy way "hand held way" out.
Hopefully, SOE reads this and take it into consideration, atleast for the "hardcore EQ1 ruleset" servers.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Ok, I don't expect anyone to agree with this but if they actually do want to make a sandbox game instead of just another rehash of the standard linear themepark, there needs to be some mechanism for removing equipment from the economy. It prevents mudflation and makes a sandbox economy possible.
The simplest way to do it would be to incorporate item loss as part of the death penalty. When you die you lose one or more equipped items. One for sure but maybe in certain areas there would be a risk of losing more than one. I never liked item decay because it seems like you are being punished even if you haven't made any mistakes so making item loss a part of the death penalty makes more sense to me.
Of course now I know that people are going to post after me expounding on how awful it would be to lose equipment and so on. But look, if they really do want to do something different with EQ next they have to actually....you know...do things differently. If they just follow the standard blueprint for MMO games all they are going to come up with is yet another rehash of the same-ol'-thing. If items can never be lost you inevitably end up with mudflation and a gear grind of ever increasingly powerful equipment. And whether people want to hear this or not, ever increasing power, whether from equipment or levels, pushes you right back into that linear themepark model.
Of course I'm still not convinced that Smedly was serious about the "sandbox" thing. I still suspect that he's just using that as a buzzword to build hype.
Originally posted by Neanderthal Ok, I don't expect anyone to agree with this but if they actually do want to make a sandbox game instead of just another rehash of the standard linear themepark, there needs to be some mechanism for removing equipment from the economy. It prevents mudflation and makes a sandbox economy possible.The simplest way to do it would be to incorporate item loss as part of the death penalty. When you die you lose one or more equipped items. One for sure but maybe in certain areas there would be a risk of losing more than one. I never liked item decay because it seems like you are being punished even if you haven't made any mistakes so making item loss a part of the death penalty makes more sense to me.Of course now I know that people are going to post after me expounding on how awful it would be to lose equipment and so on. But look, if they really do want to do something different with EQ next they have to actually....you know...do things differently. If they just follow the standard blueprint for MMO games all they are going to come up with is yet another rehash of the same-ol'-thing. If items can never be lost you inevitably end up with mudflation and a gear grind of ever increasingly powerful equipment. And whether people want to hear this or not, ever increasing power, whether from equipment or levels, pushes you right back into that linear themepark model.Of course I'm still not convinced that Smedly was serious about the "sandbox" thing. I still suspect that he's just using that as a buzzword to build hype.
I couldn't agree with you more. One of the advantages of PvP with full loot is the natural drain on gear that makes crafting a vital part of the world. I'm not for PvP totally, but it does add that to the game.
I like the idea of losing gear and I even more like it being a part of the death penalty, but I'm not sure in what form. It seems harsh to just lose random gear. I'd hate to have one great piece of armor with a bunch of crap in every other slot and have my great piece get taken.
I guess my biggest question is what EQ will be, EQ modernized with sandbox elements, a new sandbox game with the same races as EQ or something else altogether.
well considering they have said they have scrapped 2 versions of EQN gameplay already, Id think of 2010 as being abit too old to stick any hopes to, unless it have been repeated within the past year....their first comment at fanfaire were they were looking more toward EQ1 than EQ2, to try create some buzz about the game, now their claim is it will be nothing like either EQ1 or 2.
also why I think EQN should have its own forum, instead of putting it in the EQ1 section, atleast EQN now have alittle bit of, hype speeches, from within the past year, where they promise it will be nothing like EQ/EQ2....though when you know SOE hype, it doesnt have to be as radical, tend to blow up small things as world changing.
Scrapping the game and remaking doesn't effect whether there will be hardcore servers imo, that has no effect on how the game is made. Smed knows that many old EQ vets will want that, that would not of changed with them redoing the game at all.
So three years old or one year old it really is makes no difference.
Come the next fanfare when everything will be revealed i think EQN will get it's own forum but to be honest i think this works well. Many of us are EQ vets so it would make sense to keep it here until more info has been made available to us.
well I do consider myself a EQ vet by now...just you know...the "wrong" one ;P, but what make me wonder what they are doing, is simple things like they have said they will allow all players to play all classes - which make me think they want the same progression as PS2....which make me think they maybe want the game to be more action, less hassle.
I miss the feel of working together toward a common goal, both for groups and raids, and just to help someone in a solo quest to make them catch up...EQ2 never felt huuuge to me, after they putted in maps for every zone anyway...
it is just speculation at this point, but I just dont get the feeling that they are looking backwards at all....other than for lore...but it is just a feeling.
not to say I think they make a fantasy PS2 either, the storybricks certainly steer clear of that.
Originally posted by Neanderthal Ok, I don't expect anyone to agree with this but if they actually do want to make a sandbox game instead of just another rehash of the standard linear themepark, there needs to be some mechanism for removing equipment from the economy. It prevents mudflation and makes a sandbox economy possible.
The simplest way to do it would be to incorporate item loss as part of the death penalty. When you die you lose one or more equipped items. One for sure but maybe in certain areas there would be a risk of losing more than one. I never liked item decay because it seems like you are being punished even if you haven't made any mistakes so making item loss a part of the death penalty makes more sense to me.
Of course now I know that people are going to post after me expounding on how awful it would be to lose equipment and so on. But look, if they really do want to do something different with EQ next they have to actually....you know...do things differently. If they just follow the standard blueprint for MMO games all they are going to come up with is yet another rehash of the same-ol'-thing. If items can never be lost you inevitably end up with mudflation and a gear grind of ever increasingly powerful equipment. And whether people want to hear this or not, ever increasing power, whether from equipment or levels, pushes you right back into that linear themepark model.
Of course I'm still not convinced that Smedly was serious about the "sandbox" thing. I still suspect that he's just using that as a buzzword to build hype.
I couldn't agree with you more. One of the advantages of PvP with full loot is the natural drain on gear that makes crafting a vital part of the world. I'm not for PvP totally, but it does add that to the game.
I like the idea of losing gear and I even more like it being a part of the death penalty, but I'm not sure in what form. It seems harsh to just lose random gear. I'd hate to have one great piece of armor with a bunch of crap in every other slot and have my great piece get taken.
I guess my biggest question is what EQ will be, EQ modernized with sandbox elements, a new sandbox game with the same races as EQ or something else altogether.
I prefer item decay. Everytime you die it breaks a little more. You can only repair it so many times before it breaks....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
As a monk I enjoyed doing corpse runs for people just as much as anything else in the game. Was just one of the things that made me feel needed for my ability's, just like I needed other classes for there ability's, can't find that in new games anymore, everyone can do everything.
I don't understand why most people today think that corpse runs just slow you down and are a hindrance to your game play. Time is relative, if you can do something faster, doesn't mean your going to play any less.
I liked the way they did everything in EQ better then any other game, right up till the point that they started trying to make it like the other games. So now you may as well go play the other games with better graphics.
As a monk I enjoyed doing corpse runs for people just as much as anything else in the game. Was just one of the things that made me feel needed for my ability's, just like I needed other classes for there ability's, can't find that in new games anymore, everyone can do everything.
I don't understand why most people today think that corpse runs just slow you down and are a hindrance to your game play. Time is relative, if you can do something faster, doesn't mean your going to play any less.
I liked the way they did everything in EQ better then any other game, right up till the point that they started trying to make it like the other games. So now you may as well go play the other games with better graphics.
QFT.
My first 'Main' in any MMO was an Agnostic Human Monk (on Prexus server), which made him start in Qeynos. I played Wololo for 2 years, starting from Kunark up until about Luclin release, and still only got to level 44. 2 Years played and my main was level 44, and I still felt like every day that I logged on was meaningful to his life. Even though a monk nowadays means a healer or damage dealer, in EQ I was much more than just a DPS. I was the puller, the corpse runner, the guy you turn to when the tank falls dead and the rest of the team needs you to buy them time to gate. I had many roles, and I enjoyed them all thoroughly!
- leave a tombstone that can be 100% recovered if you go back, or summoned to an altar for a cost. Either way, your equipment is heavily degraded. Summoning also loses you more XP.
- any mounts or pack animals with you when you die just stay, but will die if you don't come back to get them. If they die, you HAVE to do a corpse run within a certain amount of time, or lose everything on that animal
- items cannot just be repaired at any vendor, you have to craft an equivalent level "repair kit", or buy one from another crafter. If your super-duper swords gets damaged because you died, you need a super-duper repair kit. Only players can make these.
- you also lose some stats, like strength, resistances, etc. These can only be restored by player-made potions of equivalent level
- getting killed also affects your faction. You lose faction wherever you respawn, and also lose faction points against the creature that killed you.
I would also add fairly severe item decay, especially after being in use. Shields take a lot of hits, and break down quickly. Same with melee weapons. Range weapons should have a chance of mis-fire, which causes severe damage, taking them out of action.
Make all weapons/armor/jewelry/etc player made. No mob drops anything except mats to make things from. This along with rapid item decay and penalties for dying, will make crafters and the economy important.
Originally posted by olepi I think if you get killed, it should:- cost some XP, perhaps 1/4 of a level's worth- leave a tombstone that can be 100% recovered if you go back, or summoned to an altar for a cost. Either way, your equipment is heavily degraded. Summoning also loses you more XP.- any mounts or pack animals with you when you die just stay, but will die if you don't come back to get them. If they die, you HAVE to do a corpse run within a certain amount of time, or lose everything on that animal- items cannot just be repaired at any vendor, you have to craft an equivalent level "repair kit", or buy one from another crafter. If your super-duper swords gets damaged because you died, you need a super-duper repair kit. Only players can make these.- you also lose some stats, like strength, resistances, etc. These can only be restored by player-made potions of equivalent level- getting killed also affects your faction. You lose faction wherever you respawn, and also lose faction points against the creature that killed you.I would also add fairly severe item decay, especially after being in use. Shields take a lot of hits, and break down quickly. Same with melee weapons. Range weapons should have a chance of mis-fire, which causes severe damage, taking them out of action.Make all weapons/armor/jewelry/etc player made. No mob drops anything except mats to make things from. This along with rapid item decay and penalties for dying, will make crafters and the economy important.
don't agree with the xp loss to that degree, that is way too harsh especially if its as hard to level in EQnext as it was in vanilla EQ or early on.
a 1/4 of a level in one death? at high levels that's like a week of playing for some people (or more).
what if you then die on a corpse run? make that two weeks down the drain.
i think the xp penalty vanilla EQ had stung you good enough and was perfect. i also support the idea of losing coin and a piece or two of gear when you get killed in pvp and possibly pve as well.
but not something that will force you to quit the game because you had a bad night and died a couple times.
Originally posted by olepi I think if you get killed, it should:
- cost some XP, perhaps 1/4 of a level's worth
- leave a tombstone that can be 100% recovered if you go back, or summoned to an altar for a cost. Either way, your equipment is heavily degraded. Summoning also loses you more XP.
- any mounts or pack animals with you when you die just stay, but will die if you don't come back to get them. If they die, you HAVE to do a corpse run within a certain amount of time, or lose everything on that animal
- items cannot just be repaired at any vendor, you have to craft an equivalent level "repair kit", or buy one from another crafter. If your super-duper swords gets damaged because you died, you need a super-duper repair kit. Only players can make these.
- you also lose some stats, like strength, resistances, etc. These can only be restored by player-made potions of equivalent level
- getting killed also affects your faction. You lose faction wherever you respawn, and also lose faction points against the creature that killed you.
I would also add fairly severe item decay, especially after being in use. Shields take a lot of hits, and break down quickly. Same with melee weapons. Range weapons should have a chance of mis-fire, which causes severe damage, taking them out of action.
Make all weapons/armor/jewelry/etc player made. No mob drops anything except mats to make things from. This along with rapid item decay and penalties for dying, will make crafters and the economy important.
don't agree with the xp loss to that degree, that is way too harsh especially if its as hard to level in EQnext as it was in vanilla EQ or early on.
a 1/4 of a level in one death? at high levels that's like a week of playing for some people (or more).
what if you then die on a corpse run? make that two weeks down the drain.
i think the xp penalty vanilla EQ had stung you good enough and was perfect. i also support the idea of losing coin and a piece or two of gear when you get killed in pvp and possibly pve as well.
but not something that will force you to quit the game because you had a bad night and died a couple times.
JMO
If I remember correctly, the xp loss for death in EQ (on release and after) was much worse than 1/4 of a level. I want the penalty exactly the way it was then. Nothing else. Sure, if you don't get a rez, and you die on a corpse run, it will suck, but you'll live and you will gain that xp back, sooner or later. I know I did, always.
This would be for Original difficulty servers, if they will have them. Compared to today's style of MMO's, this is not for everyone.
Originally posted by olepi I think if you get killed, it should:
- cost some XP, perhaps 1/4 of a level's worth
- leave a tombstone that can be 100% recovered if you go back, or summoned to an altar for a cost. Either way, your equipment is heavily degraded. Summoning also loses you more XP.
- any mounts or pack animals with you when you die just stay, but will die if you don't come back to get them. If they die, you HAVE to do a corpse run within a certain amount of time, or lose everything on that animal
- items cannot just be repaired at any vendor, you have to craft an equivalent level "repair kit", or buy one from another crafter. If your super-duper swords gets damaged because you died, you need a super-duper repair kit. Only players can make these.
- you also lose some stats, like strength, resistances, etc. These can only be restored by player-made potions of equivalent level
- getting killed also affects your faction. You lose faction wherever you respawn, and also lose faction points against the creature that killed you.
I would also add fairly severe item decay, especially after being in use. Shields take a lot of hits, and break down quickly. Same with melee weapons. Range weapons should have a chance of mis-fire, which causes severe damage, taking them out of action.
Make all weapons/armor/jewelry/etc player made. No mob drops anything except mats to make things from. This along with rapid item decay and penalties for dying, will make crafters and the economy important.
don't agree with the xp loss to that degree, that is way too harsh especially if its as hard to level in EQnext as it was in vanilla EQ or early on.
a 1/4 of a level in one death? at high levels that's like a week of playing for some people (or more).
what if you then die on a corpse run? make that two weeks down the drain.
i think the xp penalty vanilla EQ had stung you good enough and was perfect. i also support the idea of losing coin and a piece or two of gear when you get killed in pvp and possibly pve as well.
but not something that will force you to quit the game because you had a bad night and died a couple times.
JMO
If I remember correctly, the xp loss for death in EQ (on release and after) was much worse than 1/4 of a level. I want the penalty exactly the way it was then. Nothing else. Sure, if you don't get a rez, and you die on a corpse run, it will suck, but you'll live and you will gain that xp back, sooner or later. I know I did, always.
This would be for Original difficulty servers, if they will have them. Compared to today's style of MMO's, this is not for everyone.
I don't remember the death penalty being all that harsh, but I also always played EQ with friends or a group. The death penalty and many other things in the game where there to promote grouping and it did make you always want to group. I never considered EQ a solo game although I know some people did solo.
In my experience if I died there was always someone to grab my corpse and rez me and I could get my lost experience back just by killing a few mobs. I think there was only 1 or 2 times during my 5 years of playing that I didn't get a rez and that was at level cap and didn't mater a whole lot.
I can see where if you where playing solo you would have a completely different view. Having to run back to your corpse and beg for a rez would really suck. Having at least a cleric to run with was a must.
I spent most of my time helping other people and for me that was what the game was really about. Now days people just want to solo and not help anyone unless there's something in it for them. If EQ Next could bring that back some how it would truly be EQ Next. But the way gamers are now days the only way it might work is if people got something for helping others.
While I like the idea of there being realistic travel times, I do not like the idea of corpse runs. I can remember losing a corpse in EQ1 -- You then ended up back to really crappy equipment and nobody wanted to group with you. The worst was when you were in a corpse run situation then the server had trouble -- you now got to decide to wait until it came back up and then try to get your corpse or go to bed and maybe lose all of your stuff.
Having it take 30 minutes travel time to get to a nice hidden area with significantly better results than the normal places is nice.
Actually in my ideal game, death would remove a small amount of permanent stats. Your strength might go from 85% to 84%. A clean character would be able to wear better equipment etc than one who had died several times during their tenure. You could then reset your stats if you got reincarnated. This would cost you 5 levels and allow you to reset your stats to their original levels. It would also allow you to shift one class type. IE from pure healer to hybrid dps/healer or hybrid dps/healer to dps or dps to hybrid dps/tank etc. One step(each class would have 3-5 options). This mechanic would also allow people to change up how they play every once in a while at a cost.
I'm against harsh death penalties. Currently I'm playing GW2 and often I've crashed in the battle zones and log back to find I'm dead. Some days this is frequent. Harsh death penalties would make this miserable. I look at harsh death penalties as a barrier to actually playing the game. Some armor damage or temporary weakness is all I want from death.
it was a similar death system in final fantasy 11 and I liked because of the memories, of course i got pissed when it did happen when i played but I look back its funny now. I remember one of my in game friends corpse was stuck somewhere and me with two other friends one of which was a white mage kind of went on a little adventure through the incredibly tough monster zone to save his ass so he wouldnt lose a bazillion exp and de-level, GOOD TIMES!!! Now thats true PvE fun. In general even things like the death penalty brings back fond memories of old school mmos...i cant think of anything from playing any modern day theme park mmos cuz theres nothing realy worth remembering.
Originally posted by Storm_Cloud Originally posted by baphametOriginally posted by olepiI think if you get killed, it should:- cost some XP, perhaps 1/4 of a level's worth- leave a tombstone that can be 100% recovered if you go back, or summoned to an altar for a cost. Either way, your equipment is heavily degraded. Summoning also loses you more XP.- any mounts or pack animals with you when you die just stay, but will die if you don't come back to get them. If they die, you HAVE to do a corpse run within a certain amount of time, or lose everything on that animal- items cannot just be repaired at any vendor, you have to craft an equivalent level "repair kit", or buy one from another crafter. If your super-duper swords gets damaged because you died, you need a super-duper repair kit. Only players can make these.- you also lose some stats, like strength, resistances, etc. These can only be restored by player-made potions of equivalent level- getting killed also affects your faction. You lose faction wherever you respawn, and also lose faction points against the creature that killed you.I would also add fairly severe item decay, especially after being in use. Shields take a lot of hits, and break down quickly. Same with melee weapons. Range weapons should have a chance of mis-fire, which causes severe damage, taking them out of action.Make all weapons/armor/jewelry/etc player made. No mob drops anything except mats to make things from. This along with rapid item decay and penalties for dying, will make crafters and the economy important.
don't agree with the xp loss to that degree, that is way too harsh especially if its as hard to level in EQnext as it was in vanilla EQ or early on.a 1/4 of a level in one death? at high levels that's like a week of playing for some people (or more).what if you then die on a corpse run? make that two weeks down the drain.i think the xp penalty vanilla EQ had stung you good enough and was perfect. i also support the idea of losing coin and a piece or two of gear when you get killed in pvp and possibly pve as well.but not something that will force you to quit the game because you had a bad night and died a couple times.JMOIf I remember correctly, the xp loss for death in EQ (on release and after) was much worse than 1/4 of a level. I want the penalty exactly the way it was then. Nothing else. Sure, if you don't get a rez, and you die on a corpse run, it will suck, but you'll live and you will gain that xp back, sooner or later. I know I did, always.
This would be for Original difficulty servers, if they will have them. Compared to today's style of MMO's, this is not for everyone.
just imagine dying then running back and dying once on your CR and losing half a level.
yeah, i am quite confident that never happened in EQ, nowhere near it.
i remember it being about three blue bars of xp loss per death.
there were 5 blue bars in one yellow bar and 5 yellow bars in a full bar of xp.
in other words, a 1/4 of a level loss per death would have been more than double of what it actually was in EQ.
it definitely was not that harsh of an xp loss in EQ at any point that i can remember.
but still,at high level without a rez that 3 blues or so of xp loss was a stinger.
if EQnext is going to feature similar slow xp gains like EQ had, you don't need xp loss to be any harsher than it had in EQ IMO
anything much more than that will turn people off i would think.
Corpse runs to get your gear back worked in UO because the gear didn't really matter - there really wasn't any gear worth going through hoops to recover.
If you could get back / had friends to help - great!
If not, any decent player had stacks in their bank to replace it.
Same reason corpse looting worked for PvP.
EQ is built on the vertical progression and acquiring gear.
It may work in EQNext if they make death rare and hard to do - but then how to you create proper risk without making everything too easy?
These issues do not exist in a vacuum. Death penalties tie directly to how combat is handled and how gear acquisition and power work (crafted, dropped, etc.)
You can't logically just say "death penalty should be like this" without knowing how everything else in the game works.
How much you can solo versus forced grouping is a HUGE determination to how death penalties should be done.
Also whether or not you have the Trinity.
Death can sting much more if the vast majority of the time you are playing in groups with solid healing/tanking mechanics.
You rely on others, others rely on you, death can be avoided through good teamwork etc.
If the game is very solo friendly, death penalty cannot be harsh. Unless you homogenize classes / builds to the point everyone is self sufficient enough to avoid death - but then how do you do group content if everyone is the same? (looks at GW2)
But how do you build combat mechanics to challenge and engage players knowing everyone is a Tank/Healer/Control/Damage hybrid?
Note there were only three places where you lost over 1/4 of a level in the original everquest.
While most people realized that 35, 40, and 45 were WAY longer than normal levels, a smaller number of people realized the other issue with those levels...
In 36 41 and 46 deaths were figured as a percentage of the exp from the extremely long levels before them and would be MUCH harsher than any other death in the game. It also made those points the most likely to unding you and throw you back into the long level before it.
Note that this is before they put in the patch to smooth out the levels.
I want harsher death penalty. Maybe they should make those special mouse and keyboards which sends many volts of electric current through my body every time i die. I want to be punished and smell my own burning flesh for sucking at video games.
Nothing less will do!!
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Bring back the death penalty! It was good having to fear death. Bring back corpse runs /shout anyone able to help me on a CR? It helped build the great community that EQ was.
I don't 'dread' it. Just nothing left to say about it, after 17 years.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
1) i agree, as long as there is no hell levels and you don't have to take off gear. So the stats on gear should go down but it should not force you to remove it.
2) rez stick brought back 95% of experience lost, unless you used the clerics final rez spell which brought back 99% of exp lost.
3) Loss of gear I think should not be brought back, as I said in one it should allow you to keep your gear but reduce your stats from gear due to level loss etc.
4) Do not allow items for corpse recovery, I want EQnext to bring back the Druid/Wizard/Necromancer class dependency which I feel added to the community as a whole. You could not travel quickly without a Druid or Wizard from zone to zone. Also the need to get SOW for fast moving I think was awesome and it really brought the community together because higher level players would sometimes come to lower level areas to help out noobs etc or charge a price for buffs etc.
I think the problem with current MMO's is that they try to create so much convenience for everyone without understanding that it takes away from the overall game by decreasing the amount of community interaction.
Real easy fix. And keep death harsh.
if you die you lose XP. You then respawn. Naked. You then are given an option of full respawn. Meaning your given your gear but the XP is lost permanantly. I would even say you can choose to do a full respawn later. The option is available on your character sheet untill you get a Rez, get your corpse or give up.
also I would say if you do decide to take the full gear respawn, not only do you take the full xp hit but also gain 50%xp debt for like an hour. Don't increase the percentage. Increase the time the debt lasts for each time you earn more. And if you log off it does not just go away. You only decrease it while playing.
Excellent idea!!!
If there was a vote, I'd vote for this. Then everyone gets what they want, but now, sadly, ppl will cry that they lose xp because they take the easy way "hand held way" out.
Hopefully, SOE reads this and take it into consideration, atleast for the "hardcore EQ1 ruleset" servers.
Please, god, no more 3am phone calls.
Oh, right, mmos just aren't that social. Whew.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Ok, I don't expect anyone to agree with this but if they actually do want to make a sandbox game instead of just another rehash of the standard linear themepark, there needs to be some mechanism for removing equipment from the economy. It prevents mudflation and makes a sandbox economy possible.
The simplest way to do it would be to incorporate item loss as part of the death penalty. When you die you lose one or more equipped items. One for sure but maybe in certain areas there would be a risk of losing more than one. I never liked item decay because it seems like you are being punished even if you haven't made any mistakes so making item loss a part of the death penalty makes more sense to me.
Of course now I know that people are going to post after me expounding on how awful it would be to lose equipment and so on. But look, if they really do want to do something different with EQ next they have to actually....you know...do things differently. If they just follow the standard blueprint for MMO games all they are going to come up with is yet another rehash of the same-ol'-thing. If items can never be lost you inevitably end up with mudflation and a gear grind of ever increasingly powerful equipment. And whether people want to hear this or not, ever increasing power, whether from equipment or levels, pushes you right back into that linear themepark model.
Of course I'm still not convinced that Smedly was serious about the "sandbox" thing. I still suspect that he's just using that as a buzzword to build hype.
I couldn't agree with you more. One of the advantages of PvP with full loot is the natural drain on gear that makes crafting a vital part of the world. I'm not for PvP totally, but it does add that to the game.
I like the idea of losing gear and I even more like it being a part of the death penalty, but I'm not sure in what form. It seems harsh to just lose random gear. I'd hate to have one great piece of armor with a bunch of crap in every other slot and have my great piece get taken.
I guess my biggest question is what EQ will be, EQ modernized with sandbox elements, a new sandbox game with the same races as EQ or something else altogether.
Asdar
well I do consider myself a EQ vet by now...just you know...the "wrong" one ;P, but what make me wonder what they are doing, is simple things like they have said they will allow all players to play all classes - which make me think they want the same progression as PS2....which make me think they maybe want the game to be more action, less hassle.
I miss the feel of working together toward a common goal, both for groups and raids, and just to help someone in a solo quest to make them catch up...EQ2 never felt huuuge to me, after they putted in maps for every zone anyway...
it is just speculation at this point, but I just dont get the feeling that they are looking backwards at all....other than for lore...but it is just a feeling.
not to say I think they make a fantasy PS2 either, the storybricks certainly steer clear of that.
anyway...August is only too far away : P
I prefer item decay. Everytime you die it breaks a little more. You can only repair it so many times before it breaks....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
As a monk I enjoyed doing corpse runs for people just as much as anything else in the game. Was just one of the things that made me feel needed for my ability's, just like I needed other classes for there ability's, can't find that in new games anymore, everyone can do everything.
I don't understand why most people today think that corpse runs just slow you down and are a hindrance to your game play. Time is relative, if you can do something faster, doesn't mean your going to play any less.
I liked the way they did everything in EQ better then any other game, right up till the point that they started trying to make it like the other games. So now you may as well go play the other games with better graphics.
QFT.
My first 'Main' in any MMO was an Agnostic Human Monk (on Prexus server), which made him start in Qeynos. I played Wololo for 2 years, starting from Kunark up until about Luclin release, and still only got to level 44. 2 Years played and my main was level 44, and I still felt like every day that I logged on was meaningful to his life. Even though a monk nowadays means a healer or damage dealer, in EQ I was much more than just a DPS. I was the puller, the corpse runner, the guy you turn to when the tank falls dead and the rest of the team needs you to buy them time to gate. I had many roles, and I enjoyed them all thoroughly!
I think if you get killed, it should:
- cost some XP, perhaps 1/4 of a level's worth
- leave a tombstone that can be 100% recovered if you go back, or summoned to an altar for a cost. Either way, your equipment is heavily degraded. Summoning also loses you more XP.
- any mounts or pack animals with you when you die just stay, but will die if you don't come back to get them. If they die, you HAVE to do a corpse run within a certain amount of time, or lose everything on that animal
- items cannot just be repaired at any vendor, you have to craft an equivalent level "repair kit", or buy one from another crafter. If your super-duper swords gets damaged because you died, you need a super-duper repair kit. Only players can make these.
- you also lose some stats, like strength, resistances, etc. These can only be restored by player-made potions of equivalent level
- getting killed also affects your faction. You lose faction wherever you respawn, and also lose faction points against the creature that killed you.
I would also add fairly severe item decay, especially after being in use. Shields take a lot of hits, and break down quickly. Same with melee weapons. Range weapons should have a chance of mis-fire, which causes severe damage, taking them out of action.
Make all weapons/armor/jewelry/etc player made. No mob drops anything except mats to make things from. This along with rapid item decay and penalties for dying, will make crafters and the economy important.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
don't agree with the xp loss to that degree, that is way too harsh especially if its as hard to level in EQnext as it was in vanilla EQ or early on.
a 1/4 of a level in one death? at high levels that's like a week of playing for some people (or more).
what if you then die on a corpse run? make that two weeks down the drain.
i think the xp penalty vanilla EQ had stung you good enough and was perfect. i also support the idea of losing coin and a piece or two of gear when you get killed in pvp and possibly pve as well.
but not something that will force you to quit the game because you had a bad night and died a couple times.
JMO
If I remember correctly, the xp loss for death in EQ (on release and after) was much worse than 1/4 of a level. I want the penalty exactly the way it was then. Nothing else. Sure, if you don't get a rez, and you die on a corpse run, it will suck, but you'll live and you will gain that xp back, sooner or later. I know I did, always.
This would be for Original difficulty servers, if they will have them. Compared to today's style of MMO's, this is not for everyone.
I don't remember the death penalty being all that harsh, but I also always played EQ with friends or a group. The death penalty and many other things in the game where there to promote grouping and it did make you always want to group. I never considered EQ a solo game although I know some people did solo.
In my experience if I died there was always someone to grab my corpse and rez me and I could get my lost experience back just by killing a few mobs. I think there was only 1 or 2 times during my 5 years of playing that I didn't get a rez and that was at level cap and didn't mater a whole lot.
I can see where if you where playing solo you would have a completely different view. Having to run back to your corpse and beg for a rez would really suck. Having at least a cleric to run with was a must.
I spent most of my time helping other people and for me that was what the game was really about. Now days people just want to solo and not help anyone unless there's something in it for them. If EQ Next could bring that back some how it would truly be EQ Next. But the way gamers are now days the only way it might work is if people got something for helping others.
While I like the idea of there being realistic travel times, I do not like the idea of corpse runs. I can remember losing a corpse in EQ1 -- You then ended up back to really crappy equipment and nobody wanted to group with you. The worst was when you were in a corpse run situation then the server had trouble -- you now got to decide to wait until it came back up and then try to get your corpse or go to bed and maybe lose all of your stuff.
Having it take 30 minutes travel time to get to a nice hidden area with significantly better results than the normal places is nice.
Actually in my ideal game, death would remove a small amount of permanent stats. Your strength might go from 85% to 84%. A clean character would be able to wear better equipment etc than one who had died several times during their tenure. You could then reset your stats if you got reincarnated. This would cost you 5 levels and allow you to reset your stats to their original levels. It would also allow you to shift one class type. IE from pure healer to hybrid dps/healer or hybrid dps/healer to dps or dps to hybrid dps/tank etc. One step(each class would have 3-5 options). This mechanic would also allow people to change up how they play every once in a while at a cost.
If I remember correctly, the xp loss for death in EQ (on release and after) was much worse than 1/4 of a level. I want the penalty exactly the way it was then. Nothing else. Sure, if you don't get a rez, and you die on a corpse run, it will suck, but you'll live and you will gain that xp back, sooner or later. I know I did, always.
This would be for Original difficulty servers, if they will have them. Compared to today's style of MMO's, this is not for everyone.
just imagine dying then running back and dying once on your CR and losing half a level.
yeah, i am quite confident that never happened in EQ, nowhere near it.
i remember it being about three blue bars of xp loss per death.
there were 5 blue bars in one yellow bar and 5 yellow bars in a full bar of xp.
in other words, a 1/4 of a level loss per death would have been more than double of what it actually was in EQ.
it definitely was not that harsh of an xp loss in EQ at any point that i can remember.
but still,at high level without a rez that 3 blues or so of xp loss was a stinger.
if EQnext is going to feature similar slow xp gains like EQ had, you don't need xp loss to be any harsher than it had in EQ IMO
anything much more than that will turn people off i would think.
Corpse runs to get your gear back worked in UO because the gear didn't really matter - there really wasn't any gear worth going through hoops to recover.
If you could get back / had friends to help - great!
If not, any decent player had stacks in their bank to replace it.
Same reason corpse looting worked for PvP.
EQ is built on the vertical progression and acquiring gear.
It may work in EQNext if they make death rare and hard to do - but then how to you create proper risk without making everything too easy?
These issues do not exist in a vacuum. Death penalties tie directly to how combat is handled and how gear acquisition and power work (crafted, dropped, etc.)
You can't logically just say "death penalty should be like this" without knowing how everything else in the game works.
How much you can solo versus forced grouping is a HUGE determination to how death penalties should be done.
Also whether or not you have the Trinity.
Death can sting much more if the vast majority of the time you are playing in groups with solid healing/tanking mechanics.
You rely on others, others rely on you, death can be avoided through good teamwork etc.
If the game is very solo friendly, death penalty cannot be harsh. Unless you homogenize classes / builds to the point everyone is self sufficient enough to avoid death - but then how do you do group content if everyone is the same? (looks at GW2)
But how do you build combat mechanics to challenge and engage players knowing everyone is a Tank/Healer/Control/Damage hybrid?
I could go on and on...
Note there were only three places where you lost over 1/4 of a level in the original everquest.
While most people realized that 35, 40, and 45 were WAY longer than normal levels, a smaller number of people realized the other issue with those levels...
In 36 41 and 46 deaths were figured as a percentage of the exp from the extremely long levels before them and would be MUCH harsher than any other death in the game. It also made those points the most likely to unding you and throw you back into the long level before it.
Note that this is before they put in the patch to smooth out the levels.
For me the xp loss is good, I wouldn't even call it harsh, just meaningful.
Losing all your gear at max level, that was harsh. Both together is what made EQ death so feared and hated.
I think if you had the xp loss it would accomplish the same goal of making death meaningful, but without the fear and loathing.
Asdar
I want harsher death penalty. Maybe they should make those special mouse and keyboards which sends many volts of electric current through my body every time i die. I want to be punished and smell my own burning flesh for sucking at video games.
Nothing less will do!!
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Bring back corpse runs /shout anyone able to help me on a CR? It helped build the great community that EQ was.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.