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WOW is a clone.

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  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Hey guys, I just had an epiphany. I think that Call of Duty: Black Ops is a clone of Wolfenstein 3D.
  • BadOrbBadOrb ManchesterPosts: 791Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KiddZero
    I believe they are called wow clones because WoW was so revolutionary, no other mmorpg (Including the ones you mentioned that where released before WoW) have even come close to the magnificent big bang mmo. WoW was a prodigy of its genera and because no other mmo can compete, they are automatically labeled "WoW Clones". 

    Even though he and you didn't even mention PSO and neither does this website , lol . noobs.

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
    "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
    The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  • filmoretfilmoret Palm Bay, FLPosts: 509Member Common
    I dunno how they beat Everquest 2.  They both came out in the same month.  I am thinking that the hype over Diablo 2 set a stage for tons of people to see what Blizzard was coming up with next.  Many people never played Everquest because of the subscription, however everyone played Diablo 2 because it was free once you paid for the game.  So ultimately you ended up with millions of more people playing Diablo 2 then Everquest.  So when it was time for the second round they were willing to pay and see what this new generation of gaming was gonna do.  The reason WOW beat all the other competetors was because they could advertise.  Someone said something about international, but that is not true because we had tons of international mmorpgs before WOW showed up.  Before 2005 how many mmorpg's have you seen advertised on television?  There was only two, Everquest and World of Warcraft.  And even today you rarely see anyone advertising on television like they did.  The reason SWTOR and LOTRO haven't been as successful is because they showed up on the scene too late.  The damage was already done so no matter how good of a game you come up with, it won't beat WOW.  The only way to beat them is to come up with the next generation of gaming.  Tera style combat didn't quite do it.  I'm thinking we are gonna have to wait for VR to see another game top WOW.
  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by filmoret
    I always laugh when someone calls a game wow clone.  It is very odd because these gamers don't realize that WOW is a clone itself.  Before WOW existed there was Everquest, Knight Online, Dark Age of Camelot.  WOW has things from all three of these games and more from others as well.  Look at Everquest 2 and how similar it is to WOW and you see that they both came out the same time frame and both have a lot of similar things.  It is clear that WOW is just a part of a genre of gaming and a clone of older and better games in some cases.  Remember, it isn't what kind of dog you are but who's dog you are that really counts.  The very reason that some awesome games are fail and other horrible games are packed with players.  It all has to do with the hype and advertising.  Just make a decent game and you got a ton of players because you are Blizzard and you advertise on television.  So next time you call anything a WOW clone, it would be better to give the credit where it is truly due.  WOW is a copycat.

    Believe that if you want. Sine WoW several characteristics of MMOs have changed.

  • ArconaArcona VanlosePosts: 1,185Member

    WoW is the most succesful MMO to date, and the reference for all future MMOs.

    Blizzard had huge fanbase, but their fanbase was not used to pay monthly fee. So their archivement is historical, and will probably never be surpassed.

    Deal with it.

  • EkarosEkaros TurkuPosts: 367Member
    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    Ah yes, the weekly "WoW is a clone" thread.

     

    Doom was a clone

    Command and Conquer was a clone

    Final Fantasy Tactics was a clone

    Ect, ect, ect.

     

    I thought Doom was a sequel in alt universe. Same for C&C, they just didn't nail the franchise thing back then but did some new assets too...

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    Ah yes, the weekly "WoW is a clone" thread.

    It is a tried-and-true.

    Ever notice all you need is a sizable fanbase (any title works, as long as there's enough fans), and creating emotional responses is just that easy?

  • ereyethirnereyethirn KaiapoiPosts: 79Member
    Originally posted by Reserton
    Originally posted by Zorgo
    Finally a thread bold enough to tackle this topic.

    Finally? You mean for the 10000th time, Op please take your ridiculous topic elsewhere. Do you seriously think this has not been covered thousands of times already? 

    ^^This

  • saurus123saurus123 nonePosts: 570Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JVasquez

    Only thing WoW did better then other games was make it more geared towards children. They lowered the skill level needed to be good at the game which opened up a lot of new customers, casual people, parents and their kids who can now play with each other. The main games before WoW required skill to be good at it.

    If you played those games you would understand.

    Also WoW had a lot of bugs when it first came out. It was no where near a polished game when released. It also was not as popular. This was because it was harder. It followed the games before it like EQ and DAOC where things were not easy and you had to be good. Then at some point they nerfed everything. Things could now be done well half paying attention. If you had good gear you no longer had to be a good player.

    Then addons came out. Now the skill was completely out the door. Years of playing this way has made it so people can not survive in any game other then WoW. They play a new game, can't heal because they do not have heal bot. Can't keep aggro because they do not have something telling them when they need to increase aggro. Pretty much there aren't things holding their hand making it easy mode. They try to switch games. End up not able to handle the skill level needed and go back to WoW.

    WoW was very popular. It brought MMOs into the mainstream spotlight. It also ended all hope for MMOs as the new online players today need the WoW crutch in order to play them.

    ^ this

     

    now these players stick to wow becouse other, new mmos are too hard dont have addons that do everything for them (like more action based combat where you need to look around your character and not to look at different numbers on your screen)

  • rawfoxrawfox HamburgPosts: 648Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by filmoret
    I always laugh when someone calls a game wow clone.  It is very odd because these gamers don't realize that WOW is a clone itself.  Before WOW existed there was Everquest, Knight Online, Dark Age of Camelot.  WOW has things from all three of these games and more from others as well.  Look at Everquest 2 and how similar it is to WOW and you see that they both came out the same time frame and both have a lot of similar things.  It is clear that WOW is just a part of a genre of gaming and a clone of older and better games in some cases.  Remember, it isn't what kind of dog you are but who's dog you are that really counts.  The very reason that some awesome games are fail and other horrible games are packed with players.  It all has to do with the hype and advertising.  Just make a decent game and you got a ton of players because you are Blizzard and you advertise on television.  So next time you call anything a WOW clone, it would be better to give the credit where it is truly due.  WOW is a copycat.

    While that is true, you should not underestimate the facts, that WoW was pretty much the first game, where it all fitet together.

    For me, WoW always had - compared to other MMOs from that time - an excellent software quality.

    The game itself was never really for me, my max char is 55 i think, but it was always technically a nice game.

     

    The other MMOs from that time ran pretty choppy ..

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon

    WoW copied a lot of stuff from other MMOs. But WoW copied from everywhere not just EQ. They made a much more compelling package than any of the MMOs before WoW. The vast majority of WoW features were improved significantly or have been changed radically. It's not just a blind copy paste. WoW did this brilliantly.

    And please point me to one MMO which had a way to level solely through quests? Give me one example! WoW had unique quests each with its own story and the game had thousands of them AT LAUNCH! No other MMO had that. Also I don't think any MMO had talent trees. Although talent trees are copied from Diablo. However, DIablo is a Blizzard game so I guess it was their idea in the first place. 

    WoW had a seamless world. Correct me if I am wrong but EQ was anything but seamless. WoW made leveling to max level solo on ANY class viable. Rested xp bonus was completely new I think. 

    If we want to argue about clones, EQ is a clone of RPGs as every single concept in that game is taken from singleplayer/multiplayer RPGs.

    WoW was light years ahead of its generation in terms of polish and the smoothness of its engine. I mean EQ series have always run like crap. EQ2 was horrendous! EQ2 and EQ1 starting copying ideas from WoW after its success hehe.

     

    Originally posted by JVasquez

    Only thing WoW did better then other games was make it more geared towards children. They lowered the skill level needed to be good at the game which opened up a lot of new customers, casual people, parents and their kids who can now play with each other. The main games before WoW required skill to be good at it.

    Don't make me laugh. WoW made MMOs accessible to people who couldn't spend their entire lives playing 1 videogame like EQ. What kind of skill did EQ required? The willingness to persevere in the face of ultimate boredom? But I guess the definition of skill in this genre is skill = time. Before WoW most people thought that MMOs were for basement dwellers and that wasn't entirely not true. Those games required for you to sacrifice your life to play them.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    And please point me to one MMO which had a way to level solely through quests? Give me one example! WoW had unique quests each with its own story and the game had thousands of them AT LAUNCH! No other MMO had that.

    City of Heroes.

    (not really dipping a toe into the direction of your argument, but there were a lot of MMOs rolling out within the same ~2 year-ish period that were heavy on quest content. At least one (CoX) beat wow to press.)

    Didn't EQ2 beat wow out of the gate (by a week or so) too?

  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by filmoret
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    WoW isn't a clone of Everquest in any way. 

    WoW is a completely different game from EQ, if you don't know why you haven't played the games.

    EQ is a grind game - WoW is a quest hub game

    EQ is a PVE game - WoW uses battlegrounds and PVP advancement

    EQ is a zoned world - WoW is an open world

    EQ has free mobs - in WoW every mob is on a leash

    EQ uses an AA system for progress - WoW uses a spec system

    EQ forces you to group - WoW allows you to solo on every class

     

    they're both MMO, and WoW borrowed some things from EQ, but clones..not by a long shot

     

    What planet are you from? First, read my post again.  Second, read my post again.

     

     

    The only reason WOW was soo successful was because it was the only game advertised on television aside from Everquest.  

    A planet that makes sense.

     

    First, that's a classy comeback, so kudos. :)

    Second, I think you might be right. I guess we tend to say WOW walked in the footsteps of EQ, because among the then reigning MMO models, it was probably closest to EQ instead of UO, DAOC or AC. But it did draw from those games, too. Especially in terms of usabilty, UI, etc, I can't help but see some DAOC and AC2 influence.

    Though in the end, while WOW was not exactly a beacon of originality, it'd be going too far to call it a clone. I know I went from those other games to WOW, and it didn't feel like one at all.

     

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Antiquated
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    And please point me to one MMO which had a way to level solely through quests? Give me one example! WoW had unique quests each with its own story and the game had thousands of them AT LAUNCH! No other MMO had that.

    City of Heroes.

    Games were released at roughly the same time. How many of city of heroes quests were repeatable>?

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fivoroth
    Originally posted by Antiquated
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    And please point me to one MMO which had a way to level solely through quests? Give me one example! WoW had unique quests each with its own story and the game had thousands of them AT LAUNCH! No other MMO had that.

    City of Heroes.

    Games were released at roughly the same time. How many of city of heroes quests were repeatable>?

    CoH pre-dated WoW by about 6 months. And all of them.

    CoH was the first game I can remember "capping out" a toon on a entirely-solo basis.

    Caveat due to imprecise language:

    "Repeatable quests"--as used in the early state of MMOs (as in 'repeatable via alts'). Standard to both Vanilla WoW and CoH (and many others)

    "Repeatable quests"--as in Dailies? Didn't truly begin appearing in MMOs until ~2007, give or take. Bit earlier if you count the Scourgestones variety (not truly 'dailies' in the modern sense.) Blizzard dailies (aka quest-reward welfare) first appeared toward the end of BC.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by filmoret
    I dunno how they beat Everquest 2.  They both came out in the same month.  I am thinking that the hype over Diablo 2 set a stage for tons of people to see what Blizzard was coming up with next.  Many people never played Everquest because of the subscription, however everyone played Diablo 2 because it was free once you paid for the game.  So ultimately you ended up with millions of more people playing Diablo 2 then Everquest.  So when it was time for the second round they were willing to pay and see what this new generation of gaming was gonna do.  The reason WOW beat all the other competetors was because they could advertise.  Someone said something about international, but that is not true because we had tons of international mmorpgs before WOW showed up.  Before 2005 how many mmorpg's have you seen advertised on television?  There was only two, Everquest and World of Warcraft.  And even today you rarely see anyone advertising on television like they did.  The reason SWTOR and LOTRO haven't been as successful is because they showed up on the scene too late.  The damage was already done so no matter how good of a game you come up with, it won't beat WOW.  The only way to beat them is to come up with the next generation of gaming.  Tera style combat didn't quite do it.  I'm thinking we are gonna have to wait for VR to see another game top WOW.

     

    WoW beat EQ2 because EQ2 was terrible at launch, and most peoples computers couldn't handle it (hell, it still runs bad thanks to poor design choices, putting everything on the processor). WoW on the other hand was optimised for mid to low end computers and was in a much better state than EQ2.

    EQ2 was also a fairly brutal game at launch. You couldn't level past 15 without a group, which deterred a lot of casuals. And there was a harsh death penalty (corpse runs and heavy XP loss).

    The game has come a long way since launch, but it wasn't really a great game until just before the Desert of Flames launched.    

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by filmoret
    I dunno how they beat Everquest 2.  They both came out in the same month.  I am thinking that the hype over Diablo 2 set a stage for tons of people to see what Blizzard was coming up with next.  Many people never played Everquest because of the subscription, however everyone played Diablo 2 because it was free once you paid for the game.  So ultimately you ended up with millions of more people playing Diablo 2 then Everquest.  So when it was time for the second round they were willing to pay and see what this new generation of gaming was gonna do.  The reason WOW beat all the other competetors was because they could advertise.  Someone said something about international, but that is not true because we had tons of international mmorpgs before WOW showed up.  Before 2005 how many mmorpg's have you seen advertised on television?  There was only two, Everquest and World of Warcraft.  And even today you rarely see anyone advertising on television like they did.  The reason SWTOR and LOTRO haven't been as successful is because they showed up on the scene too late.  The damage was already done so no matter how good of a game you come up with, it won't beat WOW.  The only way to beat them is to come up with the next generation of gaming.  Tera style combat didn't quite do it.  I'm thinking we are gonna have to wait for VR to see another game top WOW.

     

    WoW beat EQ2 because EQ2 was terrible at launch, and most peoples computers couldn't handle it (hell, it still runs bad thanks to poor design choices, putting everything on the processor). WoW on the other hand was optimised for mid to low end computers and was in a much better state than EQ2.

    EQ2 was also a fairly brutal game at launch. You couldn't level past 15 without a group, which deterred a lot of casuals. And there was a harsh death penalty (corpse runs and heavy XP loss).

    The game has come a long way since launch, but it wasn't really a great game until just before the Desert of Flames launched.    

    And Everquest had a lot of players very unhappy with SOE at the time. The intention to split their player base into two games could not have come at a worse time.

    I'm certain that if anyone in the industry had reliably predicted the Behemoth, SOE would have done several things very differently in this general time period.

    2nd game curse, really. (Not 'second game', technically...Sequel Curse? A lot of studios don't survive their sequel mmos.)

  • SukiyakiSukiyaki GreenwichPosts: 1,398Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SuperXero89
    Using the OP's logic, all video games are clones of Pong.

    No no no, Pong is vastly different from EQ and so where other games besides Pong before EQ. No clones at all until EQ came along. If you ever played Pong you would know EQ is nothing like Pong. But nowadays suddenly every kid has played Pong.

    WoW immediately reminds me of EQ, but EQ does not remind me close as much of Pong. This is beacuse WoW is much more similar to EQ than EQ is to Pong. I can name at least 3 things similar and 5000 more I wont. Therefore logically WoW must have stolen all its ideas from EQ instead of creating something new.

    WoW is just a worse copy from EQ and only changed one or two things I personally give WoW credit for. They saw EQ success and therefore rushed out some copy to take a piece of their cake and I must know. This reason objectively proofs their ambitions to copy EQ and not any other game as proven further above. Now add two and two and you get a EQ clone.

    Now EQ on the other hand took the best features, polished and improved upon them. This factual opinion makes EQ the moral winner of my argument and objectively justifies any similarity to previous games EQ might have.

    The flawless logical conclusion why EQ clone is a fitting description for WoW.

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sukiyaki

    The flawless logical conclusion why EQ clone is a fitting description for WoW.

    Now search-and-replace EQ with "Doughnut" and WoW with "Donut", for a lesson in evolution of language.

  • ro8terro8ter Phoenix, AZPosts: 23Member

    MMOs descended from DIKU MUD.

     

    Have you ever wondered why WoW quest givers have a yellow '!' over their heads?

     

    Yep, DIKU MUD.

     

    Where did corpse runs come from?

     

    Skills, classes, auto attack, on and on, all started with DikuMUD.  And the DIKU people probably borrowed heavily from earlier MUDs.

     

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ro8ter

    MMOs descended from DIKU MUD.

     

    Have you ever wondered why WoW quest givers have a yellow '!' over their heads?

     

    Yep, DIKU MUD.

     

    Where did corpse runs come from?

     

    Skills, classes, auto attack, on and on, all started with DikuMUD.  And the DIKU people probably borrowed heavily from earlier MUDs.

     

    I find it difficult to believe that 'questgivers', in any MUD, had anything over their heads...given that they were text descriptions rather than models.

    But whatev. MMOs owe a lot to MUDs, and to single-player games, and to MPBT and AOL and GEnie.

    Rather not 'clones', in any reasonable sense of the word.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/QuestGiver

  • PipofixPipofix TrollhPosts: 32Member
    This thread is a clone.
  • filmoretfilmoret Palm Bay, FLPosts: 509Member Common
    Originally posted by Antiquated
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by filmoret
    I dunno how they beat Everquest 2.  They both came out in the same month.  I am thinking that the hype over Diablo 2 set a stage for tons of people to see what Blizzard was coming up with next.  Many people never played Everquest because of the subscription, however everyone played Diablo 2 because it was free once you paid for the game.  So ultimately you ended up with millions of more people playing Diablo 2 then Everquest.  So when it was time for the second round they were willing to pay and see what this new generation of gaming was gonna do.  The reason WOW beat all the other competetors was because they could advertise.  Someone said something about international, but that is not true because we had tons of international mmorpgs before WOW showed up.  Before 2005 how many mmorpg's have you seen advertised on television?  There was only two, Everquest and World of Warcraft.  And even today you rarely see anyone advertising on television like they did.  The reason SWTOR and LOTRO haven't been as successful is because they showed up on the scene too late.  The damage was already done so no matter how good of a game you come up with, it won't beat WOW.  The only way to beat them is to come up with the next generation of gaming.  Tera style combat didn't quite do it.  I'm thinking we are gonna have to wait for VR to see another game top WOW.

     

    WoW beat EQ2 because EQ2 was terrible at launch, and most peoples computers couldn't handle it (hell, it still runs bad thanks to poor design choices, putting everything on the processor). WoW on the other hand was optimised for mid to low end computers and was in a much better state than EQ2.

    EQ2 was also a fairly brutal game at launch. You couldn't level past 15 without a group, which deterred a lot of casuals. And there was a harsh death penalty (corpse runs and heavy XP loss).

    The game has come a long way since launch, but it wasn't really a great game until just before the Desert of Flames launched.    

    And Everquest had a lot of players very unhappy with SOE at the time. The intention to split their player base into two games could not have come at a worse time.

    I'm certain that if anyone in the industry had reliably predicted the Behemoth, SOE would have done several things very differently in this general time period.

    2nd game curse, really. (Not 'second game', technically...Sequel Curse? A lot of studios don't survive their sequel mmos.)

    So that explains it.  WOW gave the players what they wanted and EQ had a bad group of devs who didn't know their head from a hole in the wall.  I do admit that WOW did give the players what they wanted and they did have millions of dollars to pour into the project.  And yes the old text based muds heavily influenced the current mmorpg world.  A lot of the old DIKU commands are in WOW and EQ.  "who" is what you typed to see who was currently playing.  "where" typed to see who was in your current area.  Emotes were the bread and butter of the DIKU world.  The sad thing is I could spend years playing those old text based games and I haven't found a mmorpg that can hold my attention for over three months.  Some of those old games also had dailies, pvp gear, quest gear.  They were excellent works.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JVasquez

    Only thing WoW did better then other games was make it more geared towards children. They lowered the skill level needed to be good at the game which opened up a lot of new customers, casual people, parents and their kids who can now play with each other. The main games before WoW required skill to be good at it.

    If you played those games you would understand.

    Also WoW had a lot of bugs when it first came out. It was no where near a polished game when released. It also was not as popular. This was because it was harder. It followed the games before it like EQ and DAOC where things were not easy and you had to be good. Then at some point they nerfed everything. Things could now be done well half paying attention. If you had good gear you no longer had to be a good player.

    Then addons came out. Now the skill was completely out the door. Years of playing this way has made it so people can not survive in any game other then WoW. They play a new game, can't heal because they do not have heal bot. Can't keep aggro because they do not have something telling them when they need to increase aggro. Pretty much there aren't things holding their hand making it easy mode. They try to switch games. End up not able to handle the skill level needed and go back to WoW.

    WoW was very popular. It brought MMOs into the mainstream spotlight. It also ended all hope for MMOs as the new online players today need the WoW crutch in order to play them.

     

     

     

    Are you talking about the same Vanilla WoW I played?

    image

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