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Translating Eve to high fantasy.

Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon

Would it be possible to translate Eve intoo a high fantasy setting with action based trnity combat? 

 

What would it look and feel like?

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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  • ZeymereZeymere Somewhere, VAPosts: 206Member Uncommon
    Daoc?? j/k good question.
  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Would it be possible to translate Eve intoo a high fantasy setting with action based trnity combat?  What would it look and feel like?

    Yes, And it would be glorious.

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    I really recommend Darkfall. Its pretty much like EVE, but Fantasy style like you are looking for. Its by the far the best MMO out right now, it is just so fun. Some bugs, but it was recently released so that is expected. But lots of people to gank and kill :D having a blast playing it.

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  • thegreatesteverthegreatestever cityPosts: 8Member
    the combat is so nonexistant that not really, although it's already not far off, it just has its own 'trinity' with bubbles, logis, battleship, etc, also i dont like the 'trinity' system as it is implemented in most games
  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    What part of it do you want to copy?  Being a space game and having a more RTS style combat is a big part of Eve.

    Recreating the economy in another setting is possible.  Gear destruction would not be popular though.

     

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
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  • Tabloid42Tabloid42 New York, NYPosts: 152Member

    It would look rather ridiculous to see my Tank running in circles on a 2ft orbit.

    Though it would be funny to see pvp'er bumping each other to keep from sprinting.

     

    :p

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,228Member Uncommon

    It would look like this:

    You and your guild go to one of 500 zones. It's fairly empty. You go to a gold mine and have your miners start mining.

    Then you travel back to unload backpacks and store your ore. Then you go back and do it again!

     

    Maybe someone attacks, maybe they don't.

     

    But in order to make such simple gameplay complex, they'll make it so your have to read a set of encyclopedias worth of information about the metallurgy of your swords before you know which one to equip.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Would it be possible to translate Eve intoo a high fantasy setting with action based trnity combat? 

    What would it look and feel like?

    By removing the skill system, combat and logistics and replacing it with role-restricted gear-dependent gameplay you're also breaking territorial control and the game's economic system so it would probably be a really crappy game... or at least a game where the tank class would never get played.

     

    What are some examples of an action-based trinity? Would that be TERA style?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    By removing the skill system, combat and logistics and replacing it with role-restricted gear-dependent gameplay you're also breaking territorial control and the game's economic system so it would probably be a really crappy game... or at least a game where the tank class would never get played.

     

    What are some examples of an action-based trinity? Would that be TERA style?

    I do not think that is quite the case as what was described of what they are doing with Pathfinder Online sounds a great deal like what Eve currently is. In many ways I believe its the first of the Eve Clones.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • sunshadow21sunshadow21 Omaha, NEPosts: 354Member

    Translating the economic and crafting side along with the item loss/insurance angle could be done. You could fairly easily make simple alterations to the skill system and it could work. Translating combat and the details of the items in the game would likely not be worth the time, and these would need to be developed from scratch, as would the world sufficient to support the game.

    Overall, most of the systems would work surprisingly well with fairly minor changes, but combat would by necessity be completely different and attention to the details would be critical.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sunshadow21

    Translating the economic and crafting side along with the item loss/insurance angle could be done. You could fairly easily make simple alterations to the skill system and it could work. Translating combat and the details of the items in the game would likely not be worth the time, and these would need to be developed from scratch, as would the world sufficient to support the game.

    Overall, most of the systems would work surprisingly well with fairly minor changes, but combat would by necessity be completely different and attention to the details would be critical.

    This comes close to what i think could work, in my opinion.  The core mechanics like the econnomy and crafting could indeed be easilly converted.    This is hat makes the core of the Eve game...

     

    Then replace the ships with armor, where the stats of the armor make for the characters power. Next to that add a system with skilltrees, where characters can spend skillpoints in trees. Skillpoints ive acces to skills that you can buy or find, but adding more skillpoints to a tree does not add power.

     

    combat should take place around resource nodes and camps and castless and towers. And involv NPC armies semi controlled by pc, just to reflect some of the rts feeling of Eve.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • EdeusEdeus Stamford, CTPosts: 506Member

    Regions get translated into Mountains/fields/forests/etc regions with tons of zones.

    Systems get translated into different zones that are all separate and have different maps, different local monsters, etc.

    Warp is replaced by roads, while on roads you gain +75% movement. Roads are everywhere, esp between dif zone entrances/exits

    Warp scramble is simply a spell you cast to get rid of that road buff on your "target" ;)

    Security status can remain exactly the same as it is, except now as guards, and bowmen as gate guns.

    Low sec has better mining/logging nodes

    Stations become towns that you enter/player housing in every single town. there are thousands of towns.  (you are in your room the whole time like eve)

    missions are missions!

    All gear can be sold, some gear drops (meta 2-4 pirate faction gears), most gear is crafted, t2 gear is crafted.  Gear gets destroyed and replaced all the time.

    R&D = npc wizards guilds!

    automatic manufacture and automatic research = hired smithies and weavers and wizards working whether you are online or not and take the same time to set up (ie 1 second).

    Blueprints = patterns

    FW = FW

    Skill points = Skill points, could be translated so easily.

    if you translated the combat system of eve to fantasy, a lot of people would get bored quickly...  You'd be better off using a different one from some other game

     

     

     

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  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Rusque

    It would look like this:

    You and your guild go to one of 500 zones. It's fairly empty. You go to a gold mine and have your miners start mining.

    Then you travel back to unload backpacks and store your ore. Then you go back and do it again!

    Maybe someone attacks, maybe they don't.

    But in order to make such simple gameplay complex, they'll make it so your have to read a set of encyclopedias worth of information about the metallurgy of your swords before you know which one to equip.

    I LOL'd

     

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Not entirely, no.  But a fantasy universe based strongly on the principles that make EVE great would be epic, IMO. 
  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    If I were attempting to do the translation, the core question is what assets are players putting at risk?   Eve revolves around its ships.  Players invest time and effort to create the ships, but every time they undock, they are risking those investments blowing up beneath them.

    What would be the high-fantasy equivalent?  Gear?  Mounts?  Magical auras?

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,682Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rusque

    It would look like this:

    You and your guild go to one of 500 zones. It's fairly empty. You go to a gold mine and have your miners start mining.

    Then you travel back to unload backpacks and store your ore. Then you go back and do it again! 

    Maybe someone attacks, maybe they don't. 

    But in order to make such simple gameplay complex, they'll make it so your have to read a set of encyclopedias worth of information about the metallurgy of your swords before you know which one to equip.

    Haha, I love it!

    It's a tamer, less-critical-of-EVE version of the post I almost made in this thread.

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  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maplestone

    If I were attempting to do the translation, the core question is what assets are players putting at risk?   Eve revolves around its ships.  Players invest time and effort to create the ships, but every time they undock, they are risking those investments blowing up beneath them.

    What would be the high-fantasy equivalent?  Gear?  Mounts?  Magical auras?

    Good question. Trinity is dependent on a defined and maximized set of roles. Gear replacement doesn't work well with that, so I'm interested in some of the alternatives that people come up with for where/how both loss and attrition would translate into a trinity-based MMO.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member

    Losing a ship essentially equates to losing money.  Easily replicated in a fantasy MMO.

    Or you could simply drop gear.  Some, all, inventory only, whatever variation.  I'm not seeing how this doesn't work with a trinity system's reliance on roles.  Nor am I seeing why a fantasy version of Eve would need to rely on a trinity system. ;)

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by maplestone If I were attempting to do the translation, the core question is what assets are players putting at risk?   Eve revolves around its ships.  Players invest time and effort to create the ships, but every time they undock, they are risking those investments blowing up beneath them. What would be the high-fantasy equivalent?  Gear?  Mounts?  Magical auras?
    Good question. Trinity is dependent on a defined and maximized set of roles. Gear replacement doesn't work well with that, so I'm interested in some of the alternatives that people come up with for where/how both loss and attrition would translate into a trinity-based MMO.


    Fortresses in Darkfall serve the purpose of ships in Eve, ya? So that's one way to do it. Other aspects would depend on how close you wanted to stick with the high fantasy schtick. Air ships could take the place of space ships, and they could co-exist with fortresses, but are not exactly high fantasy.

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  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Would it be possible to translate Eve intoo a high fantasy setting with action based trnity combat? 

     

    What would it look and feel like?

    If they did that, if ANYONE did that, it would be without a doubt, my dream game.

     

    Everything about EvE I like except, well, EvE. I just cannot get into the spaceship thing. I did LOVE Earth and Beyond, I just have never been able to get into EvE. The mechanics and ideas behind the game, I love.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Rusque
    It would look like this:You and your guild go to one of 500 zones. It's fairly empty. You go to a gold mine and have your miners start mining.Then you travel back to unload backpacks and store your ore. Then you go back and do it again! Maybe someone attacks, maybe they don't. But in order to make such simple gameplay complex, they'll make it so your have to read a set of encyclopedias worth of information about the metallurgy of your swords before you know which one to equip.


    ROFL funny way of describing the depth, or lack thereof, of Eve, as well as the barrenness.



    Originally posted by dave6660
    ...Recreating the economy in another setting is possible. Gear destruction would not be popular though.


    The economy of Eve ported to a fantasy setting = major /drool. How fun would it be to see caravans going from here or there; hiring guards to help escort the goods, etc. Sounds like a blast to me.

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  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,052Member Uncommon

    You can actually translate all of the core EvE-systems to a fantasy-setting with tab-targetting-combat. The only thing that will suffer is the size of the battles, as you simply can't build a non-RTS-system currently that supports these many players on the battlefield.

    As was said, mining and crafting are fairly easy to translate, aswell as R&D.

    Combat needs to be tab-targetting as FPS-controls wouldn't allow for huge battles that have to be calculated server-sided. And yes combat needs to be calculated server-sided, as this is the only way to prevent things like aimbots, wallhacks and all that stuff. In EvE there's no calculations being made on the client-side, and every package send to the server get's inspected before it's processed. Because of this server-side system the combat is rather slow, and modules have rather long cycles.
    It's doable in a fantasy-setting however, but the combat automatically turns into a slowed down and more tactical system.

    Territorial warfare would need to be changed aswell, and it would involve lots more active patrolling of your territory, but I'd like that in EvE aswell, instead of the iHubs.
    Instead of POS you would build stationary harvesters and instead of stations there would be castles ofc.
    You can aswell place towers in various spots with automated NPCs/cannons, to guard your territory, but these are destroyable ofc.

    The skill-system of EvE could aswell be translated into a fantasy-setting and TSW is a good example of how it could be done, and allthough TSWs skill-system is rather small and less complex compared to that of EvE it basically has the same idea behind it.
    You have a template, where you can slot 7 active and 7 passive skills. Your slotted skills determine which weapons you can use, and what armor you can wear etc etc... No problem there to make the trinity work.

    Upon death your items get destroyed and some of them drop as loot, aswell as your cargo. Money however is safe, as there's no physical money. This keeps the economy running.

    Zones -> islands/continents (see ArcheAge)

    The "safer" continents (high-sec) would be guarded by godlike NPCs, just like CONCORD in EvE. So if you kill someone not in your guild and not in an active war with, these NPC-guards will kill you for sure afterwards, with no option of escaping them.

    The sea inbetween the continents would be lowsec, where there's lot's of small islands guarded by some automated towers on the shorelines, just like the sentry-guns in EvE. Some of these islands may even have some guarded NPC-cities where you can trade, even if you're a flagged criminal.

    If you commit a crime within range of NPC-guards/towers you get flagged as a criminal each time, and once you've been flagged too much you can't set a foot onto the high-sec continents without being killed by "CONCORD".
    To get your reputation up again, you have to do quests found on the small islands. But this should require some efforts, to make your actions count.

    0.0 would be unguarded continents, where the players can build castles, towers, harvesters and all that. And what happens on these continents, stays on these continents.

    So yes. It would be totally doable, and it would be totally awesome. And those who mention Darkfall or Mortal Online... get out of here, as these both are examples of how it's done wrong.

    ArcheAge is actually pretty close to a fantasy-setting EvE Online.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Pathfinder Online might be very similar to EvE in High Fantasy.. but i doubt we will see Action Combat there.. although i wished it would be possible. Go read their Blog, you will get a lot of information out of it.
  • sunshadow21sunshadow21 Omaha, NEPosts: 354Member
    Originally posted by Rusque

    It would look like this:

    You and your guild go to one of 500 zones. It's fairly empty. You go to a gold mine and have your miners start mining.

    Then you travel back to unload backpacks and store your ore. Then you go back and do it again!

     

    Maybe someone attacks, maybe they don't.

     

    But in order to make such simple gameplay complex, they'll make it so your have to read a set of encyclopedias worth of information about the metallurgy of your swords before you know which one to equip.

    You're not wrong about that part, but you're not entirely right either. In Eve, what you describe is only the first part of the much longer, and complex process. It's true that some steps in the process are less glamorous than others, but those who only look at the individual steps miss the point of Eve. It's a game that requires patience and taking the long view, not about highlighting the boring, but necessary, aspects of the game as a whole. If someone is successful in translating that entire feel, they would have a good game.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by lizardbone

    Fortresses in Darkfall serve the purpose of ships in Eve, ya? So that's one way to do it. Other aspects would depend on how close you wanted to stick with the high fantasy schtick. Air ships could take the place of space ships, and they could co-exist with fortresses, but are not exactly high fantasy.

     

    It's not the same to just say that there is infrastructure you build and lose.  If you're going to capture the dynamics of EvE, you need something wrapped around the character itself - it has to be something you are putting at risk every time you step out into the world, something that is the end-result of all those resources being gathered.

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