The main purpose of RPGs is to improve your character, make him/her stronger over time. Most Themepark MMOs do this with gear. If ANet can come up with a meaningfull non gear related endgame improvement system, power to them, but until there is some type of character progressions at endgame, its endgame is little more than "Unreal Tournament".
Wrong. That's what games like EQ or WoW have made people believe, but it's wrong.
The main purpose of a RPG is and has always been, since Dungeon and Dragons and Chainmail before, to roleplay a character, explore new places and live adventures with it. It's the EQ/WoW clones which made those games into hamster wheels where the primary purpose is to grind gears.
RPG means "Role Playing Game", and not "Raid Plenty for Gear".
Who said anything about raids? AoC has an alternate endgame progressions system completely independent of gear...you need to calm down and stop bringing up WoW and raids everytime someone says anything that's not praising GW2.
A HUGE part of D&D is character progressions, that's one of the MAIN activates in RPGs and what keeps people playing, this isnt debatable.
It has to be character progression because you wont start shooting fireballs or turning undead.
But on a PC game the progression can be based on the player skill progression not on stats.
It still amazes me how stuck people are on linear progression. We have so many games (RPGs even) that offer progression in alternate ways, that are awesome. And yet most of us still can't get over that gear carrot. Hell, some of the funnest parts of games like Zelda, Guild Wars, Metroid, etc. was getting a variety of different skills to unlock different areas or make bosses easier. I'm actually glad that we are starting to see more MMORPGs try and do the same.
It does require more thought, rather then having the game just tell you 'this is better, enjoy it', but it also leads to a much more fulfilling character. Eve is another good example of this, where you start off only being mediocre in one area, and then grow to become efficient in multiple.
I know I'm probably in the minority on this, but I find linear progression to be a very shallow cop-out when it comes to progression.
^This
Unless GW2 has any type of progressions at endgame, its little more than "Unreal Torunament". You can say that progression comes from improvement of skill, and while true, also applies to unreal tournament.
I have been through this song and dance of denial and acceptance so many times that it has become almost a cliche. Neither hardcore fan base or the companies want to admit population troubles that is why you would see the name of same 4 or 5 servers being plastered on the wall every time someone wants to point towards the low population. I thought players would learn by now but i see same pattern being followed every single time with every MMO down the lane when population begins to drop.
We won't lie just to please people who are only here to spam negativity. Anyone playing the game can guest to Gandara and see that I'm telling the truth, I would be silly to lie about that.
Of course, those who play the forums more than the game may not know it... ;-)
But the issue that is being discussed here is not about Gandara or Tarnished coast or other handful of heavily populated but all other servers where players are struggling or just causing more imbalance by moving to these already packed servers.
Unless you think Gandara = entire GW2 population.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Normandy7 You see WoW has an excuse why people have left the old leveling zones, it is an old game. The same with other games but GW2 has no excuse why this happened. GW2 is still very new and yes op the living world in GW2 is pretty much barren for the simple fact that people have already left for good. You will only get a handful of people at best in the lower level areas.
Wrong. I have leveled a new character in GW2 recently, and the starter areas are actually packed at peak hours and still alive with players at off hours. Gandara (EU) server. And in the higher level areas, each time I announced a group event on map chat, more than enough people showed up to beat the event.
Of course you can't see that when you don't even play the game but just post assumptions about what you believe happens on forums...
I can't say the same about WoW's starter zones or Pandaria zones. The starter zones are empty (except a few kiddies duelling in goldshire with twinks or with high level char against level 5 ones), same for the Pandaria ones, and that was last November, not even 2 months after the release of the expansion.
In every MMO when someone brings up issue of population dwindling on their server someone like you always pops his head out of the bush and says 'but my server is doing great', well good for you but that means nothing because GW2 has a lot more other servers which are not doing so well.
So what i did? i got my 1,800 gems and transferred to Tarnished Coast. Sooner or later ANET will have to suck it up and merge servers. Till then? ignorance is bliss.
I know right.
Apparently all the people that like GW2 are in full servers and all the haters of GW2 are in empty servers.
So what next?
6 people doing an event isn't many?
(as if people leveled their characters with 5 other people in the Open World).
It isn't actually the starter areas but the level 40-60 areas?
Gandara(EU) or Desolation(EU) or Tarnished Coast(US) or the other 2 dozens of high population servers aren't representative of the game population, but the dozen or so lower population servers are a representation of the game population.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
But the issue that is being discussed here is not about Gandara or Tarnished coast or other handful of heavily populated but all other servers where players are struggling or just causing more imbalance by moving to these already packed servers.
Unless you think Gandara = entire GW2 population.
I am on neither of these servers but a tier 4 server. The game is thriving.
Honestly, TC is overpopulated. There are constantly problems with people being sent to overflows because there are just too many people on that server. You go to join up with people for an event and you can't because there are too many people there. I don't have experience with Gandara but I suspect it's similar.
Why do people like the op never can nor will show photo evidence?
Any way it's good that GW2 is still thriving.
Can't be successful without naysayers.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Apparently all the people that like GW2 are in full servers and all the haters of GW2 are in empty servers.
So what next?
6 people doing an event isn't many?
(as if people leveled their characters with 5 other people in the Open World).
It isn't actually the starter areas but the level 40-60 areas?
Gandara(EU) or Desolation(EU) or Tarnished Coast(US) or the other 2 dozens of high population servers aren't representative of the game population, but the dozen or so lower population servers are a representation of the game population.
Well thanks for proving my point.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I have been through this song and dance of denial and acceptance so many times that it has become almost a cliche. Neither hardcore fan base or the companies want to admit population troubles that is why you would see the name of same 4 or 5 servers being plastered on the wall every time someone wants to point towards the low population. I thought players would learn by now but i see same pattern being followed every single time with every MMO down the lane when population begins to drop. There are a lot of servers which needs a merge.
I finally decided to leave and join Tarnished Coast and i am sure i am not the only one heading towards the most populated servers because the way GW2 is designed you can not enjoy this game without healthy player base. I just dislike it when people start using their own populated severs as an example to show that all servers of GW2 are doing great. Typical thing to do to undermine the issue.
You do realize you're doing the exact thing you're criticising others for.
You claim people are being in denial, while at the same time preaching that the sky is falling! Some of us are merely saying neither are true. As I mentioned, some servers are still very active (and there are quite a few servers the game has) Current Servers 24 NA, 27 EU.
Now I'm not sure which server you came from, but I can personally attest to the T1-2 servers being highly active (I started out in T2 and transfered to SoR a few months ago, because i didn't like the guilds frontlining WvW in T2).
Now, servers in the lower tiers, sure. Some of them probably need merging, but that's a lot different than saying 'they all do'. I dont see anyone here saying 'all servers are fine' either. Just that the ones they are on are doing alright (Which many of these people are on the top tier servers).
There are pleanty of signs that show an active population (gw2lfg.com for example). That doesn't mean that one specific person will feel like they're on an active server regardless of where they are, what time they play, or what zone their in. Another example, specifically the mid-lvl zones Anet has already admitted to low populations & are trying to figure out ways to fix that (hence the last living story & guild bounties).
- For those expecting a WoW-like population trend I can see the tendency to call out 'the sky is falling'.
- For those of us that have played GW1, or realize that WoW's success was a result of a number of things outside the gameplay that just can't exist in today's market, mostly understand that populations fluxtuate, and that just because a zone feels empty, doesn't necessarily mean a game is failing. GW1 was a really good example of that. People constantly left & came back to that game. Much the same way as what's happening w/ GW2.
I came to post on the forums, went back into the game and the Troll event was up again, someone shouted in map chat (which is supposed to return no one hear u messages) and we have another bunch of people.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I have been through this song and dance of denial and acceptance so many times that it has become almost a cliche. Neither hardcore fan base or the companies want to admit population troubles that is why you would see the name of same 4 or 5 servers being plastered on the wall every time someone wants to point towards the low population. I thought players would learn by now but i see same pattern being followed every single time with every MMO down the lane when population begins to drop. There are a lot of servers which needs a merge.
I finally decided to leave and join Tarnished Coast and i am sure i am not the only one heading towards the most populated servers because the way GW2 is designed you can not enjoy this game without healthy player base. I just dislike it when people start using their own populated severs as an example to show that all servers of GW2 are doing great. Typical thing to do to undermine the issue.
You do realize you're doing the exact thing you're criticising others for.
You claim people are being in denial, while at the same time preaching that the sky is falling! Some of us are merely saying neither are true. As I mentioned, some servers are still very active (and there are quite a few servers the game has) Current Servers 24 NA, 27 EU.
Now I'm not sure which server you came from, but I can personally attest to the T1-2 servers being highly active (I started out in T2 and transfered to SoR a few months ago, because i didn't like the guilds frontlining WvW in T2).
Now, servers in the lower tiers, sure. Some of them probably need merging, but that's a lot different than saying 'they all do'. I dont see anyone here saying 'all servers are fine' either. Just that the ones they are on are doing alright (Which many of these people are on the top tier servers).
There are pleanty of signs that show an active population (gw2lfg.com for example). That doesn't mean that one specific person will feel like they're on an active server regardless of where they are, what time they play, or what zone their in. Another example, specifically the mid-lvl zones Anet has already admitted to low populations & are trying to figure out ways to fix that (hence the last living story & guild bounties).
- For those expecting a WoW-like population trend I can see the tendency to call out 'the sky is falling'.
- For those of us that have played GW1, or realize that WoW's success was a result of a number of things outside the gameplay that just can't exist in today's market, mostly understand that populations fluxtuate, and that just because a zone feels empty, doesn't necessarily mean a game is failing. GW1 was a really good example of that. People constantly left & came back to that game. Much the same way as what's happening w/ GW2.
That is your own interpretation of me simply questioning someone calling a poster 'a liar' for mentioning low population on other server which are obviously not heavily populated like TC. I don't see from where you got the 'sky is falling' bit.
But is it true that every time in a MMO this topic is brought up fans start using their own heavily populated servers to undermine the larger issue? yes.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by ZedTheRock Sure looks like the server is dead doesnt it?
to be fair that's in lion arch which is always populated, can do the same in many zones though, someone already posted a picture of a starter zone that was said to be empty always.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by DanitaKusor Most MMOs soon abandon levelling zones, Guild Wars 2 is no exception. One of the reasons I think game levelling content is a waste of time. An MMO with all endgame content would be far preferable to one that spends its entire budget on leveling content that people only do once.
No lets not get rid of character progression thats part of what makes a MMORPG a MMORPG..
What we need is a good game that people will enjoy playing multiple times..
sandbox.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Originally posted by DanitaKusor Most MMOs soon abandon levelling zones, Guild Wars 2 is no exception. One of the reasons I think game levelling content is a waste of time. An MMO with all endgame content would be far preferable to one that spends its entire budget on leveling content that people only do once.
Personally I don't understand why a developer hasn't looked at the TES series for inspiration in this area.
It stands to reason that players in general need a sense of progression through the game to inspire them to move forward, to give them a reason to play. So a leveling system is not inherently a bad thing; it's a straightforward measure of that progress (and, not to mention, a fundamental element of the RPG genre). So I don't think removing leveling is the answer.
I think the answer lies in dynamic content scaling. That is to say that when I join the game at level 1, I should not be set on a path to particular zones at level 60. Instead, all monsters and quests in the game world should offer rewards and experience that scales to my level. If I get to a zone and decide I do not want to be there, I should be free to move to any other zone in the game. When I tag a monster, it's damage, health and other such elements should automatically scale to whatever level I am.
In addition to this, class skills shouldn't be level gated. When I "ding", I should be able to choose what skills I want from a wide pool. There may well be some skills that require other skills to be taken before they can be picked up, but the bulk of the skills available to me should be available to me whenever I want them. If I move to X zone, and X boxx has X skill that I can't deal with, I should be able to go to my class skill trainer and pick up skills that would allow me to deal with that boss. The higher my level, the more skills I can unlock. Again, there's no reason a linear "suggested" system could not be included that suggests skills based on the zone you are in, or the level you are at, or based on the skills that you've already chosen, but I should be free to do it my way if I want to.
Gaming culture on the development side of things is all about concentrated content and features. GW2 is no exception to this, which is why I don't play it. Developers like Blizzard and ArenaNet think that novel systems, such as sitting down and having to drink every so often, are worthless because they just waste time. The reality is that MOST gamers are playing for the experience, not for concentrated content and features. MOST gamers WANT novel elements to their games, and find great joy in them. LotRo for example may not be the best MMO in the world, but it's instrument system makes it memorable (I had HOURS of fun playing my lute). Again, RIFT may not be the best MMO in the world but the Dimension system (and the soul tree system) make it memorable; regarding the soul system: it may not be a requirement - there may be cookie cutter builds - but it's fun, it's interesting, and it's unique. And there's a reason that "general gaming audiences" when a bit nuts about Eve Online and Walking in Stations (even though it appears to be cancelled now); it was novel, it looked fun, and it added a memorable layer to the game.
I sincerely hope developers and designers of the next generation aren't as lazy and unimaginative as the bunch we have now. I hope Kickstarter school conventional studios hard.
Originally posted by ZedTheRock Sure looks like the server is dead doesnt it?
This can't be true, 10am on a week work day?
You must have faked that screenshot!
(/sarcasm) ;-)
I have no view one way or the other about the active population of GW2, but that screenshot can be taken in every since MMO out there thats still operational lol
Originally posted by ZedTheRock Sure looks like the server is dead doesnt it?
And your point is? i recently left my medium sized server and even that had people in LA all the time no matter what time of hour. People here are mostly talking about population issues in open world.
However, i see that i am also just gonna join the bandwagon and transfer to Tarnished Coast.
And for those saying it happens to every MMO..Wasn't down leveling was an answer to this problem? guess it didn't work.
Originally posted by Muke Originally posted by CaldrinOriginally posted by DanitaKusorMost MMOs soon abandon levelling zones, Guild Wars 2 is no exception. One of the reasons I think game levelling content is a waste of time. An MMO with all endgame content would be far preferable to one that spends its entire budget on leveling content that people only do once.
No lets not get rid of character progression thats part of what makes a MMORPG a MMORPG..What we need is a good game that people will enjoy playing multiple times..sandbox.
It's not even about sandbox being better than themepark.
There are some truly awful sandbox games out there that gamers have shunned, in the same way that there's a plethora of truly awful themepark games out now that we shun.
Originally posted by DanitaKusorMost MMOs soon abandon levelling zones, Guild Wars 2 is no exception. One of the reasons I think game levelling content is a waste of time. An MMO with all endgame content would be far preferable to one that spends its entire budget on leveling content that people only do once.
No lets not get rid of character progression thats part of what makes a MMORPG a MMORPG..What we need is a good game that people will enjoy playing multiple times..
sandbox.
It's not even about sandbox being better than themepark.
There are some truly awful sandbox games out there that gamers have shunned, in the same way that there's a plethora of truly awful themepark games out now that we shun.
True. While the game is doing ok, its not "thriving" in the sense that it was at launch. Some form of endgame progression will turn that around immediately.
PS:...dont reply with "ZOMG WE DONT NEED SHINY WOW RAID GEAR TREADMILL CARROT"..im talking about any form of charecter progression. ANet is a good company, im sure they can come up with more than a gear treadmill.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Originally posted by ZedTheRockSure looks like the server is dead doesnt it?
This can't be true, 10am on a week work day?
You must have faked that screenshot!
(/sarcasm) ;-)
It's entirely possible for a highly populated server to look empty under the right conditions. That's the problem with anecdotes. They give a very tiny view into a situation.
It doesn't change the experience of the individual telling the anecdote though. If person A doesn't see anyone, the whole server looks empty. It doesn't matter if everyone is just on the other side of a wall or not.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
That is your own interpretation of me simply questioning someone calling a poster 'a liar' for mentioning low population on other server which are obviously not heavily populated like TC. I don't see from where you got the 'sky is falling' bit.
But is it true that every time in a MMO this topic is brought up fans start using their own heavily populated servers to undermine the larger issue? yes.
Their accusations aren't entirely baseless, though.
According to the OP he's on the server Blackgate. If you look at the list I linked in my previous post, Blackgate is one of the top 3 servers (both in WvW and in Population). It rivals the population of Tarnished Coast. Now, if someone came on here saying 'Tarnished Coast has no players!?! this game must be failing!!' Would you think they were being truthful?
Even if you were to give him the benefit of the doubt, it's such a disproportionate claim to the data (and experience) most of us have had w/ that server, that it kinda warrants some kind of proof, no?
As for the 'sky is falling' comment, I'm merely stated that, in your previous post, you're being just as over-dramatic as your accusing the fans of being. On this site especially, it's deemed 'more acceptable' to be overly skeptical / negative, than it is to be positive, for whatever reason. Maybe it's all the people who feel like they've been burnt. It's fairly common on this site, but the truth is often more in the middle.
Not saying that there aren't overly-zealous fans, but there are in every popular game. It doesn't mean that anyone who defends a game is being ridiculous or a fanboy. Especially when a game gets hated on as much as GW2 does.
It seems the issue for many is that people are playing, but not playing in the open world. Most are in dungeons, Orr, Southsun Cove post-update, and fractals. That leaves the rest of the world "empty" when meta-events are not occurring.
They took a step in the right direction by scaling green and gold loot from all enemies (they will be at your level no matter what zone you are in).
I think that they also need to scale DE rewards as well. Scale higher levels down a *bit* more, and then equalize all events. Waypoint fees also could be cut in half to help out a bit.
Other than that, the game is doing fine. I laugh at the whole "Sales are down" pitch...that is EXACTLY how a buy to play game works. You wouldn't call Fable or Skyrim a failure if sales of the game dropped 3 and 6 months after release...you don't need to pay to play the game again! You buy once, pay for items that you want, and play when you want...server fees are a lot cheaper than they were in the past.
If a GW2 expansion doesn't sell well, THEN you can talk about the game doing poorly...but til then, my personal experience has been great since launch.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
That is your own interpretation of me simply questioning someone calling a poster 'a liar' for mentioning low population on other server which are obviously not heavily populated like TC. I don't see from where you got the 'sky is falling' bit.
But is it true that every time in a MMO this topic is brought up fans start using their own heavily populated servers to undermine the larger issue? yes.
Their accusations aren't entirely baseless, though.
According to the OP he's on the server Blackgate. If you look at the list I linked in my previous post, Blackgate is one of the top 3 servers (both in WvW and in Population). It rivals the population of Tarnished Coast. Now, if someone came on here saying 'Tarnished Coast has no players!?! this game must be failing!!' Would you think they were being truthful?
Even if you were to give him the benefit of the doubt, it's such a disproportionate claim to the data (and experience) most of us have had w/ that server, that it kinda warrants some kind of proof, no?
As for the 'sky is falling' comment, I'm merely stated that, in your previous post, you're being just as over-dramatic as your accusing the fans of being. On this site especially, it's deemed 'more acceptable' to be overly skeptical / negative, than it is to be positive, for whatever reason. Maybe it's all the people who feel like they've been burnt. It's fairly common on this site, but the truth is often more in the middle.
Not saying that there aren't overly-zealous fans, but there are in every popular game. It doesn't mean that anyone who defends a game is being ridiculous or a fanboy. Especially when a game gets hated on as much as GW2 does.
I was talking about MMOS in general. Not just GW2. I have seen this happening with virtually every MMO to this date. i thought i made this point clear in earlier post. Do i ever expect fans to acknowledge the issue without dishing out clinched insults ? nope. I think there are better chances that pigs will fly some day than fan of any MMO admitting that 'yes our MMO indeed is having population issues'. Once again if you read my previous comment i was talking about MMOS in general and how things goes once population issues are brought up and so far this topic has been on the proven track.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Comments
^This
Unless GW2 has any type of progressions at endgame, its little more than "Unreal Torunament". You can say that progression comes from improvement of skill, and while true, also applies to unreal tournament.
But the issue that is being discussed here is not about Gandara or Tarnished coast or other handful of heavily populated but all other servers where players are struggling or just causing more imbalance by moving to these already packed servers.
Unless you think Gandara = entire GW2 population.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I know right.
Apparently all the people that like GW2 are in full servers and all the haters of GW2 are in empty servers.
So what next?
6 people doing an event isn't many?
(as if people leveled their characters with 5 other people in the Open World).
It isn't actually the starter areas but the level 40-60 areas?
Gandara(EU) or Desolation(EU) or Tarnished Coast(US) or the other 2 dozens of high population servers aren't representative of the game population, but the dozen or so lower population servers are a representation of the game population.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I am on neither of these servers but a tier 4 server. The game is thriving.
Honestly, TC is overpopulated. There are constantly problems with people being sent to overflows because there are just too many people on that server. You go to join up with people for an event and you can't because there are too many people there. I don't have experience with Gandara but I suspect it's similar.
Why do people like the op never can nor will show photo evidence?
Any way it's good that GW2 is still thriving.
Can't be successful without naysayers.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Well thanks for proving my point.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
You do realize you're doing the exact thing you're criticising others for.
You claim people are being in denial, while at the same time preaching that the sky is falling! Some of us are merely saying neither are true. As I mentioned, some servers are still very active (and there are quite a few servers the game has) Current Servers 24 NA, 27 EU.
Now I'm not sure which server you came from, but I can personally attest to the T1-2 servers being highly active (I started out in T2 and transfered to SoR a few months ago, because i didn't like the guilds frontlining WvW in T2).
Now, servers in the lower tiers, sure. Some of them probably need merging, but that's a lot different than saying 'they all do'. I dont see anyone here saying 'all servers are fine' either. Just that the ones they are on are doing alright (Which many of these people are on the top tier servers).
There are pleanty of signs that show an active population (gw2lfg.com for example). That doesn't mean that one specific person will feel like they're on an active server regardless of where they are, what time they play, or what zone their in. Another example, specifically the mid-lvl zones Anet has already admitted to low populations & are trying to figure out ways to fix that (hence the last living story & guild bounties).
- For those expecting a WoW-like population trend I can see the tendency to call out 'the sky is falling'.
- For those of us that have played GW1, or realize that WoW's success was a result of a number of things outside the gameplay that just can't exist in today's market, mostly understand that populations fluxtuate, and that just because a zone feels empty, doesn't necessarily mean a game is failing. GW1 was a really good example of that. People constantly left & came back to that game. Much the same way as what's happening w/ GW2.
Oh look.
I came to post on the forums, went back into the game and the Troll event was up again, someone shouted in map chat (which is supposed to return no one hear u messages) and we have another bunch of people.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
That would require work.
It's far easier to put on a tin foil hat & start flailing or ranting. It's a lot harder to back it up.
And here we are, still unwilling to allow games we don't like succeed on their own merits. There has to be some sort of conspiracy, amirite?
Not gonna lie, I hadnt logged in GW2 in about a month so I jsut logged in at 10 am in the morning and this is what I see:
SUP
That is your own interpretation of me simply questioning someone calling a poster 'a liar' for mentioning low population on other server which are obviously not heavily populated like TC. I don't see from where you got the 'sky is falling' bit.
But is it true that every time in a MMO this topic is brought up fans start using their own heavily populated servers to undermine the larger issue? yes.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
SUP
Im not really chiming in on the discussion, but I can give you the same screenshot in Ultima Online, WAR, AoC, DCUO, STO etc etc.
to be fair that's in lion arch which is always populated, can do the same in many zones though, someone already posted a picture of a starter zone that was said to be empty always.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
sandbox.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Personally I don't understand why a developer hasn't looked at the TES series for inspiration in this area.
It stands to reason that players in general need a sense of progression through the game to inspire them to move forward, to give them a reason to play. So a leveling system is not inherently a bad thing; it's a straightforward measure of that progress (and, not to mention, a fundamental element of the RPG genre). So I don't think removing leveling is the answer.
I think the answer lies in dynamic content scaling. That is to say that when I join the game at level 1, I should not be set on a path to particular zones at level 60. Instead, all monsters and quests in the game world should offer rewards and experience that scales to my level. If I get to a zone and decide I do not want to be there, I should be free to move to any other zone in the game. When I tag a monster, it's damage, health and other such elements should automatically scale to whatever level I am.
In addition to this, class skills shouldn't be level gated. When I "ding", I should be able to choose what skills I want from a wide pool. There may well be some skills that require other skills to be taken before they can be picked up, but the bulk of the skills available to me should be available to me whenever I want them. If I move to X zone, and X boxx has X skill that I can't deal with, I should be able to go to my class skill trainer and pick up skills that would allow me to deal with that boss. The higher my level, the more skills I can unlock. Again, there's no reason a linear "suggested" system could not be included that suggests skills based on the zone you are in, or the level you are at, or based on the skills that you've already chosen, but I should be free to do it my way if I want to.
Gaming culture on the development side of things is all about concentrated content and features. GW2 is no exception to this, which is why I don't play it. Developers like Blizzard and ArenaNet think that novel systems, such as sitting down and having to drink every so often, are worthless because they just waste time. The reality is that MOST gamers are playing for the experience, not for concentrated content and features. MOST gamers WANT novel elements to their games, and find great joy in them. LotRo for example may not be the best MMO in the world, but it's instrument system makes it memorable (I had HOURS of fun playing my lute). Again, RIFT may not be the best MMO in the world but the Dimension system (and the soul tree system) make it memorable; regarding the soul system: it may not be a requirement - there may be cookie cutter builds - but it's fun, it's interesting, and it's unique. And there's a reason that "general gaming audiences" when a bit nuts about Eve Online and Walking in Stations (even though it appears to be cancelled now); it was novel, it looked fun, and it added a memorable layer to the game.
I sincerely hope developers and designers of the next generation aren't as lazy and unimaginative as the bunch we have now. I hope Kickstarter school conventional studios hard.
I have no view one way or the other about the active population of GW2, but that screenshot can be taken in every since MMO out there thats still operational lol
And your point is? i recently left my medium sized server and even that had people in LA all the time no matter what time of hour. People here are mostly talking about population issues in open world.
However, i see that i am also just gonna join the bandwagon and transfer to Tarnished Coast.
And for those saying it happens to every MMO..Wasn't down leveling was an answer to this problem? guess it didn't work.
sandbox.
It's not even about sandbox being better than themepark.
There are some truly awful sandbox games out there that gamers have shunned, in the same way that there's a plethora of truly awful themepark games out now that we shun.
True. While the game is doing ok, its not "thriving" in the sense that it was at launch. Some form of endgame progression will turn that around immediately.
PS:...dont reply with "ZOMG WE DONT NEED SHINY WOW RAID GEAR TREADMILL CARROT"..im talking about any form of charecter progression. ANet is a good company, im sure they can come up with more than a gear treadmill.
You must have faked that screenshot!
(/sarcasm) ;-)
It's entirely possible for a highly populated server to look empty under the right conditions. That's the problem with anecdotes. They give a very tiny view into a situation.
It doesn't change the experience of the individual telling the anecdote though. If person A doesn't see anyone, the whole server looks empty. It doesn't matter if everyone is just on the other side of a wall or not.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Their accusations aren't entirely baseless, though.
According to the OP he's on the server Blackgate. If you look at the list I linked in my previous post, Blackgate is one of the top 3 servers (both in WvW and in Population). It rivals the population of Tarnished Coast. Now, if someone came on here saying 'Tarnished Coast has no players!?! this game must be failing!!' Would you think they were being truthful?
Even if you were to give him the benefit of the doubt, it's such a disproportionate claim to the data (and experience) most of us have had w/ that server, that it kinda warrants some kind of proof, no?
As for the 'sky is falling' comment, I'm merely stated that, in your previous post, you're being just as over-dramatic as your accusing the fans of being. On this site especially, it's deemed 'more acceptable' to be overly skeptical / negative, than it is to be positive, for whatever reason. Maybe it's all the people who feel like they've been burnt. It's fairly common on this site, but the truth is often more in the middle.
Not saying that there aren't overly-zealous fans, but there are in every popular game. It doesn't mean that anyone who defends a game is being ridiculous or a fanboy. Especially when a game gets hated on as much as GW2 does.
It seems the issue for many is that people are playing, but not playing in the open world. Most are in dungeons, Orr, Southsun Cove post-update, and fractals. That leaves the rest of the world "empty" when meta-events are not occurring.
They took a step in the right direction by scaling green and gold loot from all enemies (they will be at your level no matter what zone you are in).
I think that they also need to scale DE rewards as well. Scale higher levels down a *bit* more, and then equalize all events. Waypoint fees also could be cut in half to help out a bit.
Other than that, the game is doing fine. I laugh at the whole "Sales are down" pitch...that is EXACTLY how a buy to play game works. You wouldn't call Fable or Skyrim a failure if sales of the game dropped 3 and 6 months after release...you don't need to pay to play the game again! You buy once, pay for items that you want, and play when you want...server fees are a lot cheaper than they were in the past.
If a GW2 expansion doesn't sell well, THEN you can talk about the game doing poorly...but til then, my personal experience has been great since launch.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
I was talking about MMOS in general. Not just GW2. I have seen this happening with virtually every MMO to this date. i thought i made this point clear in earlier post. Do i ever expect fans to acknowledge the issue without dishing out clinched insults ? nope. I think there are better chances that pigs will fly some day than fan of any MMO admitting that 'yes our MMO indeed is having population issues'. Once again if you read my previous comment i was talking about MMOS in general and how things goes once population issues are brought up and so far this topic has been on the proven track.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney