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[General Article] Neverwinter: Open Beta Diary #3

2

Comments

  • Griffs1999Griffs1999 Fruitdale, ALPosts: 6Member
    I've been playing for about 3 weeks now, and I love this game. Even cancelled WoW cause I had not logged in since I started playing Neverwinter.

    I agree with the currency and Cash Shop issues. There are many things I would be willing to buy, but not at current prices. I read that mounts are account wide, but extra bags at $10 a piece are for a single character. That is just wrong.

    But overall I still enjoy playing and don't plan on stopping anytime soon.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,715Member Uncommon

    I can't say much to the second part (I don't pvp :) ) but I totaly agree on the first part. Though it's unlikely those issues will change... (at least based on STO or CO)

     

    Retrain: it's also a Store item in the other ones. In STO you get a few tokens during leveling if you're a subscriber, but in NW you can't subscribe, so that's not an option... but you get 1-3 tokens through the different founder packs. I agree, it would be much better through ingame currency, AoC has a nice feat reset model for example.

     

    Currencies: it seems a common thing in f2p mmo's to have a truckload of different currencies... I add to Cryptic's favor they tried to cutting them back in STO earlier, managed to reduce it to four: Zen, EC (gold in NW), dilly (AD in NW) and GPL (which has no counterpart luckily :) it's pretty useless anyway).

    Future was bright - for a while. Then the currencies start to pile up again as the game went forward... Different marks (approx. the Seals in NW), Lobi crystals (the bars in NW, from the lockboxes, with the bar trader), etc.

    I think not the currencies are the main problem, it's their convertibility (only if that's an existing word...). It's massively missing from NW, which only raises the grind factor up with a whole level. Especially with the exchange using AD.

    In STO you can convert those 4 main currencies back and forth among them, which is great. Sadly that's not the situation with the new currencies, those are bound in STO as well... seems Cryptic tries to push players toward currency grind. Oh, and the exchange in STO uses EC, the ingame currency. NW should implement that model, it would be much better for the long run... Imo, of course.

     

    Edit: almost forgot, in STO you can move dilly (AD in NW) between your characters.

  • HappyHanselHappyHansel Cedar Falls, IAPosts: 3Member
    I agree with your article that allowing player-created PvP maps from the Foundry would be a brilliant move. Even if there were severe restrictions to prevent exploits - if players were only allowed to redecorate developers' maps, say - it would add variety to the PvP, and would probably extend the life of the game.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    The multitude of currencies is confusing, because it's designed to be confusing.

     

    The more currencies there are, the greater the difficulty for the player to translate their value back to real currency, which means the player will be more inclined to spend them freely. And if they are spending them freely, they might need to buy some more spending power via an additional Zen purchase...

     

    All F2P games do this. They all use multiple tiers of currency to disassociate the RL money value from the currency that the player spends in the Cash Shop. The way NWO uses Astral Diamonds is closer to the model used by Entropia Universe, where the ingame currency is used for ALL transactions, except Entropia does not go to great lengths to obfuscate the fact that you are using real money for everything.

  • TallahasseeRedTallahasseeRed The Moon, KYPosts: 1Member
    You haven't done enough research on Neverwinter to write this article yet. Half the information you put forward is simply incorrect or misleading. Five minutes research on the official Neverwinter forums could have let you know that, for instance, you can purchase a respec with in game currency. And it's expensive. This is just one of many examples.
     
    Also, end game enchanting with a 1% success chance is silly. What's worse, is you can spend $10 dollars to make that 1% a 100%. Or you can save Celestial coins for a week and cross your fingers for a chance to save yourself $10 bucks. Not a guarantee, a chance. 
     
    Yet you say they avoided Pay 2 Win. Only in the sense that the game is so absurdly simple that there's never a requirement to use anything except green gear to conquer content. Blue and purple gear means you don't just complete a dungeon, you dominate it.
  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Lunarpac
    "Cryptic has avoided the dreaded “pay to win” moniker."
    I heard something about end-game enchants, which you either have to farm ~7 months or pay $160 to get. That certainly doesn't seem fair from a p2w perspective. I still have my doubts about this game. Hmm.

    Complete fallacy and exaggeration. I have most of my Tier 7 runes on my main now. T6 is also very easy to get, and not much lower in power. Havent spent a cent on the cash shop coalescent wards (which guarantee fusion). Its what, 2 weeks into the game? Yeah such a P2W grind.

    Here is the deal with T7 runes:

    - Getting to Tier 6 is easy.

    - There is a 1% chance to go from Tier 6 to Tier 7. That's where most of the P2W claims come in.

    - You only lose one of the four runestones when you try to fuse and fail.

    - Remember how I said getting Tier 6 was easy?

    - You can get coalescent wards by logging in for 7 days in a row to help boost your chances.

    - You can trade AD for coalescent wards on the auction house.

     

    The lower tier runes drop like candy. It really isn't difficult to get max level gear with gameplay alone. All the cash shop does is speed it up and get rid of the randomness.

     

     

    Forget the whole Health Stones and Rez Scrolls did we?

    People are soloing dungeons with health stones and rez scrolls.  Can't get any more blatant P2W than that.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Lunarpac
    "Cryptic has avoided the dreaded “pay to win” moniker."
    I heard something about end-game enchants, which you either have to farm ~7 months or pay $160 to get. That certainly doesn't seem fair from a p2w perspective. I still have my doubts about this game. Hmm.

    Complete fallacy and exaggeration. I have most of my Tier 7 runes on my main now. T6 is also very easy to get, and not much lower in power. Havent spent a cent on the cash shop coalescent wards (which guarantee fusion). Its what, 2 weeks into the game? Yeah such a P2W grind.

    Here is the deal with T7 runes:

    - Getting to Tier 6 is easy.

    - There is a 1% chance to go from Tier 6 to Tier 7. That's where most of the P2W claims come in.

    - You only lose one of the four runestones when you try to fuse and fail.

    - Remember how I said getting Tier 6 was easy?

    - You can get coalescent wards by logging in for 7 days in a row to help boost your chances.

    - You can trade AD for coalescent wards on the auction house.

     

    The lower tier runes drop like candy. It really isn't difficult to get max level gear with gameplay alone. All the cash shop does is speed it up and get rid of the randomness.

     

     

    You complain about exaggeration and then do it yourself ?

     

    You MIGHT get a Coalescent Ward if:

    • If you login for 7 days consecutively and invoke your god.
    • Miss one day and the count resets to 0.
    • If you only have 1 character, it may take 2 or 3 or even 4 weeks before you get your FIRST coalescent ward. You will get a preservation ward frequently.
     
    Just saying "You can get coalescent wards by logging in for 7 days in a row to help boost your chances." is such a vast "simplification" of the real process that it borders on misinformation.
  • feena750feena750 Federal Way, WAPosts: 331Member Uncommon

    There are multiple ways of dealing with Guardian's block in PVP.

    1. Move the side or back of them.  They can only block your front so if you have your whole team there you should be able to surround him.

    2. Use weaker attacks to reduce his guard meter and cause a shield break then use the big moves when he can't block.

    3. Use a control power.  I am a GF and I feel block does me almost no good because when I am controlled I can't block and I am almost always controlled.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,436Member Uncommon
    I found the cash shop to be very expensive and i notice a lot of the ideas are copied right out of other cash shop games.

    I just can't take pvp serious or even fun in rpg's and i think this shows why,there was little effort put into it.

    As to the "respec" idea,i do believe it belongs in a cash shop even in a sub game.This again is a direct copy from many item mall games but what really should be done is have a limit like maybe 1 free,2-3 using game gold,then everything after is cash shop.Simple reason is 1//3 might be mistakes,try and see but after that it is abuse of the system.My personal opinion,albeit i have only gone as far as 25 on two players is there is no real to worry about anything as the point system and choices are extremely limited.Even if you made what you consider a mistake in the points they don't really matter.
    Here is a quick shimmy as to why like every game,they PRETEND to give you something but don't.
    An average encounter takes what a few seconds,maybe 10?Well if you factor in say each 10% increment you are not even saving one attack mode per encounter,so meaningless.Then those point choices of 1/2/3/4/5/6 you add any of those to the 10 and it remains meaningless because you would actually need around 20% to maybe save one attack.By time you get another 10% stacked which the game btw has all figured out,you take an extra few rounds ,so you gain maybe a total of 2 saved attacks but lose 3 LMAO,so yes all that time thinking you are improving you are going backwards.Yes i realize that is how gaming works but imo many don't seem to get it.


    Samoan Diamond

  • dalamar55dalamar55 saint-hyacinthe, QCPosts: 2Member
    OK first I must say that I like the game,
    Now for points that need to get better for launch.
    1.PvP you need far more than 2-3 maps and far more than 1 game mode or its boring after 1 day
    2.Its D&D you need to get more classes and fast
    3.Since its pretty much a warp to destination you need things like home and guild place to feel more in a world
    4.More skills too,you don't feel powerfull with 5-6 skills at same time

    yvesbarry

  • RainyDayBGRainyDayBG SofiaPosts: 15Member
    p2w
  • sidriansidrian SPosts: 4Member

    Im going to start by adding some thoughts on Dalamar55's post

    1. Definitely need more modes. One kind of pvp i've never seen on moo's it's a lane arena, much like a MOBA. It could fit in NW because of the fast-paced combat.

    2. The classes are really generic, they're simply twists of the classes we're tired to see on mmos. I mean, cmon, how many mmorpgs have a Guardian class these days? almost every game. The new mmo's need to refresh the whole thing, and bring real innovations. A good example of innovation in this matter are the attributes name's of Wildstar, that replaces the usual str, int and dex for some cool-named terms.

    3. Instancing, IMO, it's generally a bad thing (except for dungeons, that are ok to be in instances)

    4. We need to have the choice of paths to follow. I don't wanna be just like every other wizard out there. I want to be a a wizard with a mastery on something cool, like a Necromancer, or a Illusionist. I think most mmo's are forgetting to innovate in this way. And with new class branches, comes much more cool skills.

    - Foundry: I like it. It's probably the one thing that is maintaining the game at a high hype. But... as far as iv'e tested it, I couldn't find a option to add NPC allies to the player (please correct me if im wrong). This would create many possibilities like making quests with a full length war in it. Or even the possibility to create a MOBA inside NW, just like when DOTA emerged from WC3.

    Concluding, IMO the thing that really shines at NW is the combat. And, unfortunately, a MMO can't rely only on it's combat. MMO's have room for housing, exploration, mounted combat, building, flying... and yet the new MMO's are forgetting all this (hope Wildstar breaks the line). I know there are some games trying to achieve this, but it's hard to find them. I was dying to play darkfall, but at the current price, no chance.

     

  • SpeakzzzSpeakzzz Springfield, TNPosts: 24Member

    Whoever wrote this obviously hasn't made it to 60 in the game yet. My first argument is the guardian fighter. The guardian fighter can be taken down easily by attacking it from the BACK. If you attack it from the front obviously your attacks will be blocked he has a SHIELD. They made that part realistic. Before you start on me no I don't have a 60 GF, but I do have a 60 GWF and Cleric.

    My second point is the cash shop not being pay to win. You do know that you have a 1% chance of fusing enchantment shards right? Tell me that was not meant to be a pay to win mechanic. Sure while you can argue it is NOT pay to win at the moment because you can make astral diamonds by playing the Auction House. Some people like myself HATE and i mean HATE playing the auction house. But obviously it is either that or spend real money on the game. 

  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Posts: 847Member Uncommon

    Any review from an organization has to focus on the game rather than the players. Reviewers strive for consistency, and consequently steer clear of some of the specific player induced issues in games.

    However this can have the effect of sterilizing the review slightly, as some of the more controversial aspects are not commented on.

    Everyday players however get to see these first hand.

    The game's exploits have affected what could have been a reasonable launch. Foundry farming to level cap in a day. 20K+ Glory purely from afk pvp. Farming bugged end dungeons (still happening) with the resultant overload of end gear in the broker - this is the actual situation.

    This game needs a character wipe desperately, and restart everyone once all the bugs have been removed.

    And - reduce the xp from pvp - people are still doing a version of afk, with just enough character movement so the system doesn't kick them, purely because of the xp reward.

  • GeridenGeriden DublinPosts: 391Member
    Really enjoy the game itself, currently a lvl 36 guardian and a lower lvl cleric. The only thing i cant stand is this cash shop its a  complete over priced rip off, I love the foundry some great player made work on there but with rift going ftp i think il be jumping ship hopefully they will have reasonable prices and none of this real cash for respecs crap. 
  • VlackeVlacke BelgradePosts: 155Member Common

    They should tone down the prices in the cash shop, some of them are over the top honestly.

    Respec for 6$ should be mentioned as ridiculous.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,938Member Uncommon
    On one hand, you have one MMORPG.com author talking about how open beta is a sham. And then in this article, we have a different author detailing, in a third installment, how the open beta is basically not a sham and continuing well. Why are these articles even continuing, when the game is released (and taking money) in reality? It makes one wonder, if a certain number of articles was contracted for...
  • n3xxn3xx dartmouth, NSPosts: 1Member
    While I agree pvp is a complete mess balance wise.... The way the rogue works it has 2 kinds of kicks. One comes from a jump move they do which takes enough time to land that anyone paying attention will be able to completely dodge this disabling effect, The second is a smoke bomb which puts the disabling effect on the ground in an area and to avoid this, one only needs to move out of the area where the smoke is. It's not that hard to counter the rogue disabling effects... I don't have a problem dealing with this particular aspect of the rogue in pvp with my cleric.... however their dmg in pvp is hard to deal with especially when your a cleric who does so little dmg in comparison.
     
  • CyclopsSlayerCyclopsSlayer Minneapolis, MNPosts: 532Member

    Get to endgame runs, start collecting the Shards for your Weapon and Armor enhancements. Assembling 4 Shards(useless by themselves) just to get a Lesser has a 1% chance to START with.

    So, $10 in Zen later and a Coalescent Ward lets you assemble that Lesser. Then you will need 4 Lesser to make 1 Greater, so $40 for the 4 Lesser's, and $10 for the Greater. Rumor has it there are Tiers beyond the Greater.

    Many of the Shards are on the AH at 50k to 250K Astral Diamonds last time I looked.  Since you can convert Zen($$$) to AD at roughly a 380 to 1 ratio, $1 is ~38K AD. So ONE of the shards costs up to the equivalent of $7, then the costs of the wards and final Enhancements will be a very very dear penny each.

  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon

        The article hits the nail(s) on the head quite accurately. I have played this game more casually, but the real money cost of getting most items from the cash shop is outrageous. I'd be doing better if I payed $40.00 or $50.00 for the game and a $14.99 sub.  AD is not as easy to get as some say. Maybe if you are pouring enormous hours into the game, but to be a casual player AD is not easy to come by in the amounts one would need to purchase or trade it for Zen.

     

       The game play is easy to challenging . It is enjoyable, but not complex or deep. Cryptic did a nice job with the environment and over all graphics and effects. 

     

       One thing that just rubs and rubs until it becomes a festering mess is all the failings with the UI in the game. The Auction House is a mess. The search tools (or massive lack of) becomes so bad that most people use zone chat to announce their sales. The dungeon finder and pvp queue system makes me feel like they never used a previous one in any MMO out there that has already paved the way for them. In pvp you, as leader can boot everyone in your group from the match if you wished to be a jerk. There is no re-queueing system to fill empty slots in the group for either pve or pvp. The let everyone need everything system just pisses people off and was changed in many other mmos a long time ago. It feels like I am playing a pre-historic MMO! I can recall many dungeon queues that we started the dungeon with no tank and healer... the queue system gathered all rogues and control wizards.

     

       Now you may say, "It's still in beta give them a break" AND to that I say, "They are taking peoples money from the cash shop... IT IS NOT BETA". There have been many maintenance times and they do a great job of informing and entertaining the masses during this time through their FB posts. I would applaud the PR even more if after every maintenance it didn't feel like much was fixed. The same graphical issues arise. The same lag issues nag you and server disconnects still abound.

     

       All in all it is a fun game to play, but does not at present time have a strong enough base to offer longevity to many. The foundry is a nice concept, but needs to give more tools to the creators to make solid and deep adventures. The game just feels like it should be in closed beta still, which is unfortunate because it took so long to get it to the place it is now. And I didn't even go into the failings of it to be an actual D&D game. If you are looking for a true D&D game play experience you won't find it here.

    image

  • Allacore69Allacore69 Casselberry, FLPosts: 839Member
    Originally posted by Lunarpac
    "Cryptic has avoided the dreaded “pay to win” moniker."
    I heard something about end-game enchants, which you either have to farm ~7 months or pay $160 to get. That certainly doesn't seem fair from a p2w perspective. I still have my doubts about this game. Hmm.

    You dont have to pay 160$ for enchantments or Runestones. They drop like candy.

    image

  • NliteNlite JohnstonePosts: 8Member
    I'm sure my comments will be nothing new but Rip-off. I would be more  willing to pay $10 for a mount and $2 dollar for a respec. I doubt I will ever play this game but if I ever do( plenty of other cheaper games to play) I will have to make a new character if I mess up the points to avoid the respec cost. For me this game is a fail, it's not like we live in a very affluent world now where we can afford to waste money like this.
  • poisonmanpoisonman Warwick, RIPosts: 59Member

    My thoughts on things....

    I'm still playing and enjoying the game for free, the combat is really fun, but it is clearly obvious what this payment "model" and end game is all about.  I would much rather the game be sub based instead of the disgusting mess it is now.  

    I'm a big PvPer but I don't have a whole lot of hope for this game in that department though, it is a D&D game which was pretty much made for PvE / Co-Op / Dungeon Running / Raiding, and that is completely fine, in fact it is awesome, the Foundry is fantastic.

    So I honestly wasn't expecting much in the PvP department and I am not really expecting much balance happening there because this game is built off the D&D ruleset which was never really designed with PvP in mind and they should stick with that.  

    It will make for a excellent PvE based MMO, but IMHO it could have been far better as a sub game or at least with a better payment model then the appalling place the store / micro transactions are at now.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by furbans
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Lunarpac
    "Cryptic has avoided the dreaded “pay to win” moniker."
    I heard something about end-game enchants, which you either have to farm ~7 months or pay $160 to get. That certainly doesn't seem fair from a p2w perspective. I still have my doubts about this game. Hmm.

    Complete fallacy and exaggeration. I have most of my Tier 7 runes on my main now. T6 is also very easy to get, and not much lower in power. Havent spent a cent on the cash shop coalescent wards (which guarantee fusion). Its what, 2 weeks into the game? Yeah such a P2W grind.

    Here is the deal with T7 runes:

    - Getting to Tier 6 is easy.

    - There is a 1% chance to go from Tier 6 to Tier 7. That's where most of the P2W claims come in.

    - You only lose one of the four runestones when you try to fuse and fail.

    - Remember how I said getting Tier 6 was easy?

    - You can get coalescent wards by logging in for 7 days in a row to help boost your chances.

    - You can trade AD for coalescent wards on the auction house.

     

    The lower tier runes drop like candy. It really isn't difficult to get max level gear with gameplay alone. All the cash shop does is speed it up and get rid of the randomness.

     

     

    Forget the whole Health Stones and Rez Scrolls did we?

    People are soloing dungeons with health stones and rez scrolls.  Can't get any more blatant P2W than that.

    People are also completing the final dungeons in full T2 gear and runes without spending a cent, only 2 weeks after launch. Cant get any less P2W than that.

  • muthaxmuthax mondaPosts: 593Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by catch2two
    Only concern is the Respec Token, I really hope they add Astral Diamond respec, but not 100k like it is now to reset one of your "Point Placements".

    I'm a Level 60 Cleric, Heal Spec. I love it and gained T2 items in the first 2 days of being 60 because of the insta-que as a Healer. But I love to PVP and there are many essential things that I'm missing to fulfill my needs in order to be PvP friendly. I'm not going to spend 6$ for a days worth of pvp, then 6 more to get back to my PvE spec...

    I guess on that note, yes the prices are high for the Mounts, but if they were 15$, everyone would have them and they wouldn't be "Epic". You can also Trade/Sell these mounts on the AH, so there's more ways to get them if you're filthy rich in game, rather than Out.

    You can already respec Feats for AD, at lvl 28 I think it was 25K AD

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