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Huge Dissapointment

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  • Jerek_Jerek_ tulsa, OKPosts: 409Member
    Originally posted by simmihi
    Originally posted by Jerek_
    Originally posted by simmihi
    Originally posted by Jerek_

    I have 6 characters because there is fun to be had in swtor, but most of it comes from playing it like a single player rpg.  The MMO elements of swtor are trash.  It doesn't have a single gameplay element that's actually massively multiplayer so count me in the "its not an MMO" crowd.  For many of the people that followed the game for years before release and pre-ordered or bought it right away the expectation wasn't swg 2, it was wow it space-  not how I would have done it but it was clearly the development teams goal.  The problem was that they failed hard at delivering a wow like experience set in the star wars universe.  Swtor deserves the criticism it gets and your kidding yourself if you think its all coming from people that didn't play.

    It does not have "a single gameplay element that's actually massively multiplayer"??? Can you get into specifics? What would you like to see? Did you do any 16man ops? Is that not "massive" enough, or are WoW's 10 man raids more "massive"? I don't understand, please enlighten me: what do other themeparks have which is so "massive multiplayer" and swtor doesnt?

    I've been in battles that had over 1200 people involved and took 6 hours, that's massively multiplayer to me.  What the minimum number of players involved is to really feel massive is a grey area, to me if it doesn't involve more people than what you get in an fps, it probably doesn't feel massive.  Things I can think of that wow had off the top of my head was wintergrasp I think, the pvp area in lich king, I don't know what the head counts were but it felt right.  The olds raids old had 40 people but they did to.  The single most important thing that games like wow and rift have that swtor doesn't is a game engine capable of supporting large numbers of active players.

    Even the capital cities felt massive.  You essentially do the exact same things in Stormwind and the fleets, but in one its open and connected to the game world, and in the other its instanced, feels claustrophobic, and is disconnected from actual game by multiple loading screens.  It feels more like a glorified multiplayer lobby than a hub.

     

    Either way, I don't hold wow up as a shining example of what massive gameplay should be, more like the bare minimum.  When I started swtor I didn't question its status as an MMO either, it took playing the game, constantly feeling boxed in, instanced and restricted to make me question it.

    So without comparing apples to oranges, SWTOR has not even (and i quote) "a single gameplay element" which makes it massive" because it doesnt have wintergrasp (numbers are limited there too) and vanilla wow raids. Thank you. Large numbers in WoW and Rift? I've played Rift also, the game got sluggish when ~40 people were on screen. Same with GW2, that's why they had that phasing "bug" everyone complained about. Nothing is really "massive", WoW could hold 40man raids because it has Nintendo graphics. And the fact that you like Stormwind and don't like the fleet is personal preference nothing more nothing less. I respect other people's opinions, play whatever you like. But why exaggerate just because you hate a game or you left a game who kept you interested for a long time?

    I don't see how saying that even though I enjoyed the game, it never once offered anything massively multiplayer is an exaggeration.  I will say your point about wow's graphics has some merit though-  what I take away from that is that the requirements for the graphics that people love so much has reached a point that massive gameplay is less and less possible.  If that's the price, its not worth it- especially if all you get is swtor's graphics in return.

    I don't hate the game, and I'm not saying these things because I'm not playing anymore.  I said the same things while I was still playing and enjoying the game, I'm just not a fanboy so I have no problem seeing both the strengths and weaknesses of the games I play.  If you actually think swtors quality is the same as wows, offers the same levels of multiplayer as wow does, or there's no serious issues with the version of the hero engine they used, then your defense of the game goes beyond even the people that made it.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    @OP you didn't need to title the thread "Huge Disappointment" you coulda just called it "SWTOR" and we woulda knew what you meant ;)

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    I think the game is alright. It's not amazing, but it's a pretty good little themepark. Not surprising that the home of the MMO hipsters has a strong dislike for it. I'm sure SWG is the choice of the vocal minority.
  • lareslocilaresloci Colville, WAPosts: 372Member Common
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    I think the game is alright. It's not amazing, but it's a pretty good little themepark. Not surprising that the home of the MMO hipsters has a strong dislike for it. I'm sure SWG is the choice of the vocal minority.

    Not surprising that the home of the MMO hipsters has a strong dislike for it." Gotta love it.

    Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines

    image
  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by tintilinic
    Originally posted by simmihi
    Originally posted by Jerek_
    Originally posted by simmihi
    Originally posted by Jerek_

    I have 6 characters because there is fun to be had in swtor, but most of it comes from playing it like a single player rpg.  The MMO elements of swtor are trash.  It doesn't have a single gameplay element that's actually massively multiplayer so count me in the "its not an MMO" crowd.  For many of the people that followed the game for years before release and pre-ordered or bought it right away the expectation wasn't swg 2, it was wow it space-  not how I would have done it but it was clearly the development teams goal.  The problem was that they failed hard at delivering a wow like experience set in the star wars universe.  Swtor deserves the criticism it gets and your kidding yourself if you think its all coming from people that didn't play.

    It does not have "a single gameplay element that's actually massively multiplayer"??? Can you get into specifics? What would you like to see? Did you do any 16man ops? Is that not "massive" enough, or are WoW's 10 man raids more "massive"? I don't understand, please enlighten me: what do other themeparks have which is so "massive multiplayer" and swtor doesnt?

    I've been in battles that had over 1200 people involved and took 6 hours, that's massively multiplayer to me.  What the minimum number of players involved is to really feel massive is a grey area, to me if it doesn't involve more people than what you get in an fps, it probably doesn't feel massive.  Things I can think of that wow had off the top of my head was wintergrasp I think, the pvp area in lich king, I don't know what the head counts were but it felt right.  The olds raids old had 40 people but they did to.  The single most important thing that games like wow and rift have that swtor doesn't is a game engine capable of supporting large numbers of active players.

    Even the capital cities felt massive.  You essentially do the exact same things in Stormwind and the fleets, but in one its open and connected to the game world, and in the other its instanced, feels claustrophobic, and is disconnected from actual game by multiple loading screens.  It feels more like a glorified multiplayer lobby than a hub.

     

    Either way, I don't hold wow up as a shining example of what massive gameplay should be, more like the bare minimum.  When I started swtor I didn't question its status as an MMO either, it took playing the game, constantly feeling boxed in, instanced and restricted to make me question it.

    So without comparing apples to oranges, SWTOR has not even (and i quote) "a single gameplay element" which makes it massive" because it doesnt have wintergrasp (numbers are limited there too) and vanilla wow raids. Thank you. Large numbers in WoW and Rift? I've played Rift also, the game got sluggish when ~40 people were on screen. Same with GW2, that's why they had that phasing "bug" everyone complained about. Nothing is really "massive", WoW could hold 40man raids because it has Nintendo graphics. And the fact that you like Stormwind and don't like the fleet is personal preference nothing more nothing less. I respect other people's opinions, play whatever you like. But why exaggerate just because you hate a game or you left a game who kept you interested for a long time?

    You havent played GW2 so please refrain from statements about it.

    GW2 got sluggish only when all 3 sides attacked 1 spot, nmely SM in EB, or on rare occasion on borderlands. thats like 150+ people.

    There was NO "phasing bug" in GW2. WTH are you talking about?

    SWTOR got to a slide show with 15vs15. Thats 30 measly people.

    I am pretty sure hes referring to the culling, which as im sure you know, limited the amount of charecters you would see on screen to boost the framerate. You would basically see 10 people in front of you in WvW for example, yet there would actually be 20 (i dont recall the exact limits), all of whom damaging you with AoE spells. This only recently got fixed (a month ago in WvW, this week for PvE)...you should prob do some research lol. He wrote "bug" in quotations, because ANet tried to pass it off as a "feature" once they announced they were going to fix it.

    And I quote:

    Culling is a network design used by ArenaNet to limit the number of characters within visible range that are reported by the server to your game client. Once reached, this limit results in only the characters/NPCs closest to the player being reported to the client. The aim of this limitation is to:

    • Limit server bandwidth and network resources.
    • Reduce client-side resource utilization and client side technology requirements.

    Although achieving these aims, Culling has led to numerous problems due to nearby players and NPCs becoming completely invisible. While this is considered a problem throughout both PvE and WvW, it has been a particular problem within WvW, where the number of players during many battles is considerably larger than the chosen limit, resulting in numerous enemy players not being visible to opposing forces.

    Literally, that took 3 seconds of google-fu to find...

    With that said, SWTOR's engine was def not made to support massive amounts of people.

  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 774Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    There are some of us who think bioware did, and is doing a great job. You post is personal taste, not an indictment of the game itself.

    You...I mean wut?  Seriously?  I mean, yes! of course you are entitled to your opinion, but yours is the fist I have read stating that BW did a good job with that crap heap of a game.  I figured people like you existed, I have just never been witness to them spouting their opinions in public.

    For the record, I am not flaming nor trolling you, I am just genuinely amazed.  

     

    Regards.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hatefull
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    There are some of us who think bioware did, and is doing a great job. You post is personal taste, not an indictment of the game itself.

    You...I mean wut?  Seriously?  I mean, yes! of course you are entitled to your opinion, but yours is the fist I have read stating that BW did a good job with that crap heap of a game.  I figured people like you existed, I have just never been witness to them spouting their opinions in public.

    For the record, I am not flaming nor trolling you, I am just genuinely amazed.  

     

    Regards.

    What a disappointingly predictable response. 

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Hatefull
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    There are some of us who think bioware did, and is doing a great job. You post is personal taste, not an indictment of the game itself.

    You...I mean wut?  Seriously?  I mean, yes! of course you are entitled to your opinion, but yours is the fist I have read stating that BW did a good job with that crap heap of a game.  I figured people like you existed, I have just never been witness to them spouting their opinions in public.

    For the record, I am not flaming nor trolling you, I am just genuinely amazed.  

     

    Regards.

    As an MMO, its lacking.

    As a videogame, every class has a better story than most story based games released in the last 5 years.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,460Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hatefull
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    There are some of us who think bioware did, and is doing a great job. You post is personal taste, not an indictment of the game itself.

    You...I mean wut?  Seriously?  I mean, yes! of course you are entitled to your opinion, but yours is the fist I have read stating that BW did a good job with that crap heap of a game.  I figured people like you existed, I have just never been witness to them spouting their opinions in public.

    For the record, I am not flaming nor trolling you, I am just genuinely amazed.  

     

    Regards.

    Actually given what I read about the game before I tried and bought it, I do think they did a good job as well.

    The game was exactly what they said it would be minus their horrible attempt at pvp.

    I had no surprises going in and actually played a character to cap. And I never had keen interest in the game in the first place but the more I read the more I realized it was going to be "a bioware game";

    and that's what I got.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Hatefull
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    There are some of us who think bioware did, and is doing a great job. You post is personal taste, not an indictment of the game itself.

    You...I mean wut?  Seriously?  I mean, yes! of course you are entitled to your opinion, but yours is the fist I have read stating that BW did a good job with that crap heap of a game.  I figured people like you existed, I have just never been witness to them spouting their opinions in public.

    For the record, I am not flaming nor trolling you, I am just genuinely amazed.  

     

    Regards.

    Actually given what I read about the game before I tried and bought it, I do think they did a good job as well.

    The game was exactly what they said it would be minus their horrible attempt at pvp.

    I had no surprises going in and actually played a character to cap. And I never had keen interest in the game in the first place but the more I read the more I realized it was going to be "a bioware game";

    and that's what I got.

     

    You don't understand, man! It was going to be the successor to SWG with a story-focus! It was going to be awesome. 

     

     

     

  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,095Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hatefull
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    There are some of us who think bioware did, and is doing a great job. You post is personal taste, not an indictment of the game itself.

    You...I mean wut?  Seriously?  I mean, yes! of course you are entitled to your opinion, but yours is the fist I have read stating that BW did a good job with that crap heap of a game.  I figured people like you existed, I have just never been witness to them spouting their opinions in public.

    For the record, I am not flaming nor trolling you, I am just genuinely amazed.  

     

    Regards.

     

     

    You amazed at somebody who likes the game and thinks its well made? LMAO

    Raptr Gamercard
  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common
    I''m shocked this is even a topic - I feel like I just went back in time lol.  But yes...a true disappointment...but that's the nature of the beast for the video game genre that poses as mmorpgs.

    image
  • ZadawnZadawn SPosts: 651Member Common
    Originally posted by asrlohz
    Originally posted by urbanaudio
    Nah, made it for acouple of beta keys like a day ago. Haha, know I'm just tad late, It's just something that I've been thinking about lately. Figured it'd still be a little bit relavant if the mmo is still around.

    That's how it all starts. One beta key here, another there. And suddenly you are stuck like the rest of us, wandering this page like soulless husks of rage, burnt by countless of MMO's and slowly regressing back to singleplayer games.

    A truer truth hasn't been spoken in a long long while.

    image
  • lareslocilaresloci Colville, WAPosts: 372Member Common
    Originally posted by Zadawn
    Originally posted by asrlohz
    Originally posted by urbanaudio
    Nah, made it for acouple of beta keys like a day ago. Haha, know I'm just tad late, It's just something that I've been thinking about lately. Figured it'd still be a little bit relavant if the mmo is still around.

    That's how it all starts. One beta key here, another there. And suddenly you are stuck like the rest of us, wandering this page like soulless husks of rage, burnt by countless of MMO's and slowly regressing back to singleplayer games.

    A truer truth hasn't been spoken in a long long while.

     

    Amen

    Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines

    image
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