Originally posted by pantheron I think this is the same issue battlefield heroes saw. Lots of people playing the game, very few people spending money. how did they solve their problem? selling power items. can Anet do that? i don't really think they can, with the way they set their game up. not to say battlefield heroes didn't also say they wouldn't sell power items, and the cashshop would be entierely cosmetic, but, so it goes. I hope they can figure something out to not resort to selling powerful gear in their shop, but who knows what will happen.
They could sell mini DLCs with story elements like they do with The Secret World's DLCs (issues), in their cash shop. I would totally pay extra money for more PVE, story driven content. By doing this they can avoid adding power items into the cash shop and would make a lot of people who likes pve content happy as well.
Server populations are up after each release and those forums you speak of are also filled with people that love the udpates. They could release an update the size of 3 expansions and there will be someone out there that isn't going to like it.
This article is about NCSoft as a company, not about just GW2. America and Europe is down YoY only because of the massive drops in populations of GW1, Lineage 1 & 2, Aion and Blade and Soul...and the shutdown of City of Heroes.
Try to keep in mind that GW1 was at over 6 million at its peak, its down under 1 million now, to see only an 8% drop shows how popular GW2 is, because its stemming the flow of people leaving the companies other games.
Originally posted by killion81
That's a decrease of about $83 million from 4Q12 to 1Q13. I have to imagine that stockholders in any publicly held corporation do not like to see something like that. It's almost guaranteed that a GW2 expansion will be released sooner than later. If it does not perform as expected, there is a very real possibility that the cash shop becomes more aggressive in order to generate the "lost" revenue.
The thing is itcgs, it doesn't matter if the server population is up or not, if those players are not spending money in the cash shop AreaNet isn't making money and revenue will decline. That is the problem they are facing right now, not the lack of people playing it, but the lack of money coming into the game.
I agree 100% with killion81. We might see an expansion sooner than they have originally planned, but I still think it will be closer to the release of The Elder Scroll Online or Final Fantasy 14.
It doesn't matter if you agree with him or not, the game was RELEASED in the last quarter of last year so of course revenue was higher because of BOX SALES.
83 million = 1,693,877 box sales at $49
Now look at the numbers released.
Q1 saw 166.3 million in sales with America at 13% of that market. 13% of 166.3 is $21,619,000.00. If that was just from box sales it would be 432,466 copies sold.
So, in America alone they made over 400k copies worth of income. Not bad seeing its a decrease from the previous share of their income from that market...a market inflated by a new games release at that time.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Korea remained NCsoft's biggest market with 64 per cent of sales, up from 43 per cent last quarter. North America's share fell from 25 per cent to 13 per cent, while Europe fell from 18 per cent to 8 per cent. The company's biggest seller for Q1 2013 was Lineage 1, but Guild Wars 2 still maintained a 21 per cent share.
Lineage 1, a game released in 1998, is generating more profit than GW2. It is also interesting to note that the sales in NA and EU dropped to half of previous levels. Unless GW2 is REALLY popular in Korea, it looks like there is a pretty significant decline. Not to say that GW2 isn't a success, as I have no idea what level of revenue generation is required for the game to be considered "successful".
The author of the post on that website gameindustry.biz has lost a few important cells in his brain. i downloaded the entire q1 2013 earning report of ncsoft and now you have also quoted from the same article. it is lineage 1 that is making most of the money for ncsoft and not gw2, gw2 made money in q4 2012 but it has gone down severely in q1 2013 . mmorpg.com should really stop copy-pasting topics from other websites.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Never could get into GW2 myself. I found the game to be pretty solid but nothing about it really drew me in. The dynamic events weren't as dynamic as I'd want and I just really didn't feel a connect with the world. The cash didn't really lure me in with anything. But I know a lot of friends who enjoyed this game so I hope NCsoft does well with the game
Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO
It doesn't matter if you agree with him or not, the game was RELEASED in the last quarter of last year so of course revenue was higher because of BOX SALES.
83 million = 1,693,877 box sales at $49
Now look at the numbers released.
Q1 saw 166.3 million in sales with America at 13% of that market. 13% of 166.3 is $21,619,000.00. If that was just from box sales it would be 432,466 copies sold.
So, in America alone they made over 400k copies worth of income. Not bad seeing its a decrease from the previous share of their income from that market...a market inflated by a new games release at that time.
All the more reason they should release a new expansion and increase their revenue :P. Most people who wanted to buy the game already have and if most of those people avoid spending money in their cash shop, the best way to get them to spend money is through DLCs.
Originally posted by pantheron I think this is the same issue battlefield heroes saw. Lots of people playing the game, very few people spending money. how did they solve their problem? selling power items. can Anet do that? i don't really think they can, with the way they set their game up. not to say battlefield heroes didn't also say they wouldn't sell power items, and the cashshop would be entierely cosmetic, but, so it goes. I hope they can figure something out to not resort to selling powerful gear in their shop, but who knows what will happen.
This.
People are playing, they just are not paying...which was the entire point of the Buy-to-Play model. Pay once, never need to pay again...especially since even convenience items only need to be purchased one time. Thus, while the game is popular, it's revenue is largely based on the box sale and microtransactions...which, to date, have been unnecessary for play AND purchasable with in game gold.
The best way they have of making money on this model is making expansions which bring in both new players AND new revenue. They can also focus on some more unique armors in the shop, which I'm really surprised they have not pursued more aggressively.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Honestly, GW2 needs much better advertising than that crap TV spot.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Playing not Paying isn't an issue. When companies decide to go BtP they know full well the percentage breakdown of who pays, who doesn't and how much will be spent. I saw some stats once but dont recall where. Something like 90% will never spend a time, 8% will spend X amount on stuff that makes life easier like bank slots and 2% will spend an insane amount of cash. I think Anet was fully aware and GW2 is performing as they expected it would, which is very well.
Shh, don't tell anyone.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Honestly, GW2 needs much better advertising than that crap TV spot.
There is a tv spot? I only saw that weak youtube "Our time is now" video. And you are right, they have no advertising hardly at all other than the internet ads.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
lets not forget GW2 was not released on Asian market yet
atm they are at 1st cbt and from what i read its great success
so when they start selling boxes in china etc it will rise again
so id say this year GW2 will still do good
well, it's released everywhere except China if I'm not mistaken.
They question is will China take to GW2's style of play. Judging by 15-20 million Chinese gamers playing Wushu, they seem to enjoy hardcore, sandbox play.
I could be completely wrong, but don't Asian players tend to flock to time intensive progression driven games?
You seem to play another game. The updates they showed us since release don't get anyone back to the game. The living story is neither living nor story and the people are joking about it in every forum I read. The fractals have been nice, the dungeon of the flame an frost final is nice but temporary. Anything else has been patches to get the game straight.
Yes I do badly need an expansion to keep interested in this nice game for a longer period of time, as do most of my guild mates who are still playing. Most have left, the lifeless story made them laugh, nothing more.
Pure 100% BS
Server populations are up after each release and those forums you speak of are also filled with people that love the udpates. They could release an update the size of 3 expansions and there will be someone out there that isn't going to like it.
This article is about NCSoft as a company, not about just GW2. America and Europe is down YoY only because of the massive drops in populations of GW1, Lineage 1 & 2, Aion and Blade and Soul...and the shutdown of City of Heroes.
Try to keep in mind that GW1 was at over 6 million at its peak, its down under 1 million now, to see only an 8% drop shows how popular GW2 is, because its stemming the flow of people leaving the companies other games.
GW1 sold six million boxes... it wasn't six million concurrently playing people......
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Originally posted by bmorrison I wonder how much more they could've made if they didn't shut down City of Heroes
Actually i think we now see why they dropped CoH. CoH was a pretty much 100% western market game, and with those two markets dropping like me from a airplane it could have dropped CoH under the line. So instead of loosing more money they cut the loss early.
So in all honesty i think dropping it was a smart move from a pure numbers perspective. Sure did not make me happy but then again, at the time of closing i had not paid a regular subscription for well over a year before it went F2P. I did drop in a month here and there but it simply was showing it's age and there was nothing really new to do.
Originally posted by UnrealRpg There is no reason for an expansion.The way they have been updating every month with added features and content. It's hard to tell what the expansion could add. They have added plenty of features,dungeons,tweaks,areas and more without the use of the expansion. Do you really need an expansion for say a new race? I don't think so but it would drive sales up if its part of an expansion rather than its own thing.
Not sure about you but a lot of people would love content which is permanent and not just temporary (which might contribute to the longevity of the game).
Playing not Paying isn't an issue. When companies decide to go BtP they know full well the percentage breakdown of who pays, who doesn't and how much will be spent. I saw some stats once but dont recall where. Something like 90% will never spend a time, 8% will spend X amount on stuff that makes life easier like bank slots and 2% will spend an insane amount of cash. I think Anet was fully aware and GW2 is performing as they expected it would, which is very well.
Actually they, just like the F2P games haven't figured it out yet. They still believe that they can make as much in the west with high priced cash shops as they make in the east with micro-transactions.
That is the reason why cash shops don't do near what they do in Asia.
Now I am sure that statement is going to bring out the 'ZOMGS" crowd but it doesn't matter, no western B2P or F2P game does better in the west than in the east in terms of revenue and that is why Nexon, NCSoft, NDoors and other B2P/F2P Korean companies are buying out so many other companies with their massive profits...and not a single western company is doing the same.
I mean how many people are going to be willing to pay $30 for a mount compared to the $12 the same mount is being sold for in Asia?
That is why they do better there, their price is targeted towards more people.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
One thing that people seem to be overlooking is that QoQ costs are down "reflecting the high base in 4Q which was caused by new player sign-up cost for the baseball team. "
I betting that NCSoft's baseball team can beat the pants off of Blizzards/Activision's baseball team even though the B/A revenue is vastly superior.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Originally posted by mCalvert Theyve added a new zone, new dungeons, several in game events, new level of gear, and some pvp changes. This is what you would typically find in an expansion. I dont look fwd to paying for an actual expansion.
That's not even nearly close to enough content for a GW game, look at the amount of content they released for GW1 expansions :P.
Its quite a lot for your average MMO. What other MMo is releasing signiifcant content so frequently?
The whole point of B2P is to release expansions at full price in order to make the same or greater profits the game would net if they had a subscription or more subversive cash shop.
Originally posted by ShakyMo I'm not sure "populations ate up every patch"
My entire guild quit gw2 for ps2 for a start, WvW is very disappointing.
WvW isn't what it was 3 patches ago. WvW is jumping with a shit ton of people since they updated it with more rewards,ranks even the matches are continually going now that there are rankings and competitions going with a lot of people talking about how the custom arena's are looking great in Beta....and tomorrows update will add WvW traps to the structures you can build and place.
First, the ending of culling stopped much of the grief. Then, the world ranking added a greater depth to your PvP ability and "reasons" to do it. WvW is far better now than it used to be which is to be expected from a new game, continual improvements of the game.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Looks to me like L1 is the main reason NCSOFT is on the up, not GW2 since it fell since last quarter.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
I would buy an expansion 1-2 times a year if they were filled with good content and a reasonable price. Its worth it with a B2P game as quality as GW2.
Originally posted by remyburke Didn'tthey just sas a month ago that no expansions were even being planned for GW2?
They did. Finance report back it as well - since Cash Shop is bigger revenue generator than box sales. GW2 players seem to ignore it though.
Anyway - next big thing that audience maybe will see GW2 wise - is an console port for new consoles, not an expansion.
I bet you will see an expansion. This information is newer than what was said a month ago. I highly doubt that the NCSoft's managing director was mistaken about this. The game plan might have changed when they tallied the earnings from the game.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Comments
They could sell mini DLCs with story elements like they do with The Secret World's DLCs (issues), in their cash shop. I would totally pay extra money for more PVE, story driven content. By doing this they can avoid adding power items into the cash shop and would make a lot of people who likes pve content happy as well.
<InvalidTag type="text/javascript" src="http://www.gamebreaker.tv/cce/e.js"></script><div class="cce_pane" content-slug="which-world-of-warcraft-villain-are-you" ctype="quiz" d="http://www.gamebreaker.tv"></div>;
It doesn't matter if you agree with him or not, the game was RELEASED in the last quarter of last year so of course revenue was higher because of BOX SALES.
83 million = 1,693,877 box sales at $49
Now look at the numbers released.
Q1 saw 166.3 million in sales with America at 13% of that market. 13% of 166.3 is $21,619,000.00. If that was just from box sales it would be 432,466 copies sold.
So, in America alone they made over 400k copies worth of income. Not bad seeing its a decrease from the previous share of their income from that market...a market inflated by a new games release at that time.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
The author of the post on that website gameindustry.biz has lost a few important cells in his brain. i downloaded the entire q1 2013 earning report of ncsoft and now you have also quoted from the same article. it is lineage 1 that is making most of the money for ncsoft and not gw2, gw2 made money in q4 2012 but it has gone down severely in q1 2013 . mmorpg.com should really stop copy-pasting topics from other websites.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO
All the more reason they should release a new expansion and increase their revenue :P. Most people who wanted to buy the game already have and if most of those people avoid spending money in their cash shop, the best way to get them to spend money is through DLCs.
<InvalidTag type="text/javascript" src="http://www.gamebreaker.tv/cce/e.js"></script><div class="cce_pane" content-slug="which-world-of-warcraft-villain-are-you" ctype="quiz" d="http://www.gamebreaker.tv"></div>;
This.
People are playing, they just are not paying...which was the entire point of the Buy-to-Play model. Pay once, never need to pay again...especially since even convenience items only need to be purchased one time. Thus, while the game is popular, it's revenue is largely based on the box sale and microtransactions...which, to date, have been unnecessary for play AND purchasable with in game gold.
The best way they have of making money on this model is making expansions which bring in both new players AND new revenue. They can also focus on some more unique armors in the shop, which I'm really surprised they have not pursued more aggressively.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Who cares how successful games are, mine sold more than yours etc.. look at swtor, terrible game, still got lots of players.
All I care about is, is it fun. Gw2 looked like it might be during the first month, but eventually its easyness got right on my nerves.
To me just feels like daoc reimagined for modern teenagers, much like how wow was with EQ.
Also, keep in mind that GW2 is going to release in China as well, hopefully before the end of this year.
Honestly, GW2 needs much better advertising than that crap TV spot.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Shh, don't tell anyone.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
lets not forget GW2 was not released on Asian market yet
atm they are at 1st cbt and from what i read its great success
so when they start selling boxes in china etc it will rise again
so id say this year GW2 will still do good
There is a tv spot? I only saw that weak youtube "Our time is now" video. And you are right, they have no advertising hardly at all other than the internet ads.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
well, it's released everywhere except China if I'm not mistaken.
They question is will China take to GW2's style of play. Judging by 15-20 million Chinese gamers playing Wushu, they seem to enjoy hardcore, sandbox play.
I could be completely wrong, but don't Asian players tend to flock to time intensive progression driven games?
GW1 sold six million boxes... it wasn't six million concurrently playing people......
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Actually i think we now see why they dropped CoH. CoH was a pretty much 100% western market game, and with those two markets dropping like me from a airplane it could have dropped CoH under the line. So instead of loosing more money they cut the loss early.
So in all honesty i think dropping it was a smart move from a pure numbers perspective. Sure did not make me happy but then again, at the time of closing i had not paid a regular subscription for well over a year before it went F2P. I did drop in a month here and there but it simply was showing it's age and there was nothing really new to do.
This have been a good conversation
Not sure about you but a lot of people would love content which is permanent and not just temporary (which might contribute to the longevity of the game).
Actually they, just like the F2P games haven't figured it out yet. They still believe that they can make as much in the west with high priced cash shops as they make in the east with micro-transactions.
That is the reason why cash shops don't do near what they do in Asia.
Now I am sure that statement is going to bring out the 'ZOMGS" crowd but it doesn't matter, no western B2P or F2P game does better in the west than in the east in terms of revenue and that is why Nexon, NCSoft, NDoors and other B2P/F2P Korean companies are buying out so many other companies with their massive profits...and not a single western company is doing the same.
I mean how many people are going to be willing to pay $30 for a mount compared to the $12 the same mount is being sold for in Asia?
That is why they do better there, their price is targeted towards more people.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
They did. Finance report back it as well - since Cash Shop is bigger revenue generator than box sales. GW2 players seem to ignore it though.
Anyway - next big thing that audience maybe will see GW2 wise - is an console port for new consoles, not an expansion.
One thing that people seem to be overlooking is that QoQ costs are down "reflecting the high base in 4Q which was caused by new player sign-up cost for the baseball team. "
I betting that NCSoft's baseball team can beat the pants off of Blizzards/Activision's baseball team even though the B/A revenue is vastly superior.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
My entire guild quit gw2 for ps2 for a start, WvW is very disappointing.
The whole point of B2P is to release expansions at full price in order to make the same or greater profits the game would net if they had a subscription or more subversive cash shop.
WvW isn't what it was 3 patches ago. WvW is jumping with a shit ton of people since they updated it with more rewards,ranks even the matches are continually going now that there are rankings and competitions going with a lot of people talking about how the custom arena's are looking great in Beta....and tomorrows update will add WvW traps to the structures you can build and place.
First, the ending of culling stopped much of the grief. Then, the world ranking added a greater depth to your PvP ability and "reasons" to do it. WvW is far better now than it used to be which is to be expected from a new game, continual improvements of the game.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Can you see who killed you yet?
Does it still have who spams rez fastest wins?
Are you still fighting a new set of random dudes every two weeks?
If so rather stick with ps2
I bet you will see an expansion. This information is newer than what was said a month ago. I highly doubt that the NCSoft's managing director was mistaken about this. The game plan might have changed when they tallied the earnings from the game.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?