I personally think Sandboxes should go a step backward. Not Massive Multiplayer, but much more just Multiplayer, with Servers capable of a few hundred(and not thousands) of players.
I also think sandboxes should take a step back, but with the opposite approach - keep the MMO part and drop the RPG part. Focus on a persistent state virtual world. While, under that criteria, FB or Pintrest can be classified an MMO, it does show the level of interest in a sandbox environment where people can build, socialize, share and be creative.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The problem with sanbox MMO's is they're all Indie productions and they all go the FFA Full Loot route, which scares off probably 70% of their potential customer base.
If the sandbox is done right, like EVE, then it can work and be popular. If it's done wrong like DF or MO, it suffers.
FFA Full loot pvp is just fine.. sure its not for everyone but still done right it makes the game.. infact since playing full loot PVP based games i find it very hard to get into standard MMORPGs without getting bored.
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by SavageHorizonOriginally posted by BenediktOriginally posted by bcbully15 million playing Age of Wushu worldwide (more than WoW).
proof of that statement?Google it, it's not hard to find.Well, I had trouble finding it, as the only Age of Wushu 15 million reference I could find was about some dude's rep. However, I did find this:
I like the game a lot, looking forward to Age Of Wulin and European version of the game which imo will be better optimized for Europe than the us version.
The Chinese version of the game had ten million people register. Kind of like Rift had a million people register. Except it was ten million register.
well i dont of course know how much ppl in china spend on f2p mmorpgs, but that milion people actually paid for rift, unlike in case of f2p registrations
Originally posted by Benedikt Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by LoktofeitOriginally posted by SavageHorizonOriginally posted by BenediktOriginally posted by bcbully15 million playing Age of Wushu worldwide (more than WoW).
proof of that statement?Google it, it's not hard to find.Well, I had trouble finding it, as the only Age of Wushu 15 million reference I could find was about some dude's rep. However, I did find this:http://eon.businesswire.com/news/eon/20120606006747/en/Age-of-Wulin/martial-arts/betawhich was rather impressive.The Chinese version of the game had ten million people register. Kind of like Rift had a million people register. Except it was ten million register.well i dont of course know how much ppl in china spend on f2p mmorpgs, but that milion people actually paid for rift, unlike in case of f2p registrations
Trion announced the number of people who registered for their website, but they didn't announce their sales until later. We have no idea if the people who registered actually bought the game. They did sell a million+ copies of the game though. SWToR did the same thing, announced registrations, and then announced sales later. It's a PR thing that started with SWG.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You want at least a good idea on the gaming climate, Go on steam and look at the most popular downloads.
Amongst the newest, shiniest releases, you'll usually if not always see the sandboxy titles in that list, such as Minecraft, Kerbal Space Program, Train Sims, Truck sims, Prison Architect, Terraria, etc... Some of these games aren't even finished being developed and people are paying the developers to 1) play them and 2) show their support with their wallets.
(I think) Regardless of whether "people" like sandboxes or themeparks, they want an engaging game that will be more gratifying and worth their time in the long run, more so than what the current crop of AAA titles are offering. Fun is fun, but after a while, especially after years of WoW burnout, it must get old to play some other gear treadmill game that is designed around 'endgame' only to find that you can get there and use up all the content in a month, then move on to the next themepark, and the next and so on. Sooner or later, even the most devout themepark fan will yearn for a game that will last longer than what they've been playing.
There in lies what I consider the heart of sandbox style play, or better, classic-MMORPG. Longevity.
That longevity was achieved by the games being designed and utilized so that the players could build. Build content, build story, build community, build legends. Recently this genre's AAA releases have all but stripped that out of the games and replaced it with more and more combat.
But the yearning is still there, and I still think there is proof of that, even if you disagree as to what I would consider proof in the matter.
(I think) Regardless of whether "people" like sandboxes or themeparks, they want an engaging game that will be more gratifying and worth their time in the long run, more so than what the current crop of AAA titles are offering. Fun is fun, but after a while, especially after years of WoW burnout, it must get old to play some other gear treadmill game that is designed around 'endgame' only to find that you can get there and use up all the content in a month, then move on to the next themepark, and the next and so on. Sooner or later, even the most devout themepark fan will yearn for a game that will last longer than what they've been playing.
Nah .. short games are fine. You can move-on and have new experiences faster.
(I think) Regardless of whether "people" like sandboxes or themeparks, they want an engaging game that will be more gratifying and worth their time in the long run, more so than what the current crop of AAA titles are offering. Fun is fun, but after a while, especially after years of WoW burnout, it must get old to play some other gear treadmill game that is designed around 'endgame' only to find that you can get there and use up all the content in a month, then move on to the next themepark, and the next and so on. Sooner or later, even the most devout themepark fan will yearn for a game that will last longer than what they've been playing.
Nah .. short games are fine. You can move-on and have new experiences faster.
What's to stop you from leaving a game with longevity, if you're in need of a new experience? Leaving behind a game for the others to still enjoy in the long term while you find another title to play, perhaps a shorter, faster paced title?
I don't disagree with you. Some people want this and some people want that. I don't see that as a reason to completely stop designing either one, though.
(I think) Regardless of whether "people" like sandboxes or themeparks, they want an engaging game that will be more gratifying and worth their time in the long run, more so than what the current crop of AAA titles are offering. Fun is fun, but after a while, especially after years of WoW burnout, it must get old to play some other gear treadmill game that is designed around 'endgame' only to find that you can get there and use up all the content in a month, then move on to the next themepark, and the next and so on. Sooner or later, even the most devout themepark fan will yearn for a game that will last longer than what they've been playing.
Nah .. short games are fine. You can move-on and have new experiences faster.
What's to stop you from leaving a game with longevity, if you're in need of a new experience? Leaving behind a game for the others to still enjoy in the long term while you find another title to play, perhaps a shorter, faster paced title?
I don't disagree with you. Some people want this and some people want that. I don't see that as a reason to completely stop designing either one, though.
Nothing. I am not arguing i cannot quit. I am arguing that the statement "Sooner or later, even the most devout themepark fan will yearn for a game that will last longer than what they've been playing." is not true.
Yay, shout down anything that contradicts your beliefs. However, to address your claim that no one has ever referred to the game as a sandbox, here are a few links:
I wouldn't consider a review article as a credible source, unless it was a direct quote from the developer. Anyone could do a review and call it a themepark.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Is a developer the only one that is qualified to determine if a game is a sandbox?
I'd hate to give them that kind of power. They are like used car salesmen, they'll say anything to sell games and get people hyped
I don't see a problem. It is just a label. No one says "sandbox = good game".
Words are how we communicate, not using similar words causes all sorts of confusion.
Gubba muck, wump Spiff
Generic labels are not exact anyway. No one buys a game because it is a "mmorpg", or a "sandbox" without reading detailed descriptions of features or watching a gameplay video.
So again ... just a genre label is not that important.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Wow proved themepark can be legendery. Eve proved sandbox can be legendery.
All themeparks after WoW flopped or are at lifesupport All sandbox's afyer ECE flopped or are at lifesupport
Its such a thin line from failure to world domination. Give players the tools and they build an Empire, take away the tools and dumb a game down and players get bored fast and /uninstall
Blade and Soul / Archeage / FFXIV / WoD are on my radar but i have such big skeptical mindset now that i just pray one of these will hold my interest longer then a few weeks.
Minecraft and Second Life are the most sandbox like games I can think of. Minecraft, though not and MMO, is hugely popular. Second Life has about 500K subs and is still growing.
But they're casual... both of them. Maybe I'm wrong, but don't most sandbox fans want some kind of hardcore experience? In that case, it's not so much that sandboxes are guaranteed to be popular, but much more popular with casual players because, well, the hardcore market is not a huge market, much less the hardcore sandbox market.
People (not you necessarily) need to quit using single player casual games as evidence of sandbox popularity, because this is an MMO forum and that's what OP is talking about when it comes down to it. And they're not popular.
Comments
Google it, it's not hard to find.
I also think sandboxes should take a step back, but with the opposite approach - keep the MMO part and drop the RPG part. Focus on a persistent state virtual world. While, under that criteria, FB or Pintrest can be classified an MMO, it does show the level of interest in a sandbox environment where people can build, socialize, share and be creative.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
"I saw it on the internet... so it must be true. They can't put anything on the internet that isn't true."
I still love that commercial... "he's a french model."
Well, I had trouble finding it, as the only Age of Wushu 15 million reference I could find was about some dude's rep. However, I did find this:
http://eon.businesswire.com/news/eon/20120606006747/en/Age-of-Wulin/martial-arts/beta
which was rather impressive.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
FFA Full loot pvp is just fine.. sure its not for everyone but still done right it makes the game.. infact since playing full loot PVP based games i find it very hard to get into standard MMORPGs without getting bored.
Google it, it's not hard to find.
Well, I had trouble finding it, as the only Age of Wushu 15 million reference I could find was about some dude's rep. However, I did find this:
http://eon.businesswire.com/news/eon/20120606006747/en/Age-of-Wulin/martial-arts/beta
which was rather impressive.
The Chinese version of the game had ten million people register. Kind of like Rift had a million people register. Except it was ten million register.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
There you go, they also give something back as well.
http://www.mmoculture.com/2013/04/age-of-wushu-jet-li-graces-first-global-pvp-tournament/
I like the game a lot, looking forward to Age Of Wulin and European version of the game which imo will be better optimized for Europe than the us version.
well i dont of course know how much ppl in china spend on f2p mmorpgs, but that milion people actually paid for rift, unlike in case of f2p registrations
Google it, it's not hard to find.
Well, I had trouble finding it, as the only Age of Wushu 15 million reference I could find was about some dude's rep. However, I did find this: http://eon.businesswire.com/news/eon/20120606006747/en/Age-of-Wulin/martial-arts/beta which was rather impressive.
The Chinese version of the game had ten million people register. Kind of like Rift had a million people register. Except it was ten million register.
well i dont of course know how much ppl in china spend on f2p mmorpgs, but that milion people actually paid for rift, unlike in case of f2p registrations
Trion announced the number of people who registered for their website, but they didn't announce their sales until later. We have no idea if the people who registered actually bought the game. They did sell a million+ copies of the game though. SWToR did the same thing, announced registrations, and then announced sales later. It's a PR thing that started with SWG.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
@OP
Forums are a bad example of "proof" -
You want at least a good idea on the gaming climate, Go on steam and look at the most popular downloads.
Amongst the newest, shiniest releases, you'll usually if not always see the sandboxy titles in that list, such as Minecraft, Kerbal Space Program, Train Sims, Truck sims, Prison Architect, Terraria, etc... Some of these games aren't even finished being developed and people are paying the developers to 1) play them and 2) show their support with their wallets.
(I think) Regardless of whether "people" like sandboxes or themeparks, they want an engaging game that will be more gratifying and worth their time in the long run, more so than what the current crop of AAA titles are offering. Fun is fun, but after a while, especially after years of WoW burnout, it must get old to play some other gear treadmill game that is designed around 'endgame' only to find that you can get there and use up all the content in a month, then move on to the next themepark, and the next and so on. Sooner or later, even the most devout themepark fan will yearn for a game that will last longer than what they've been playing.
There in lies what I consider the heart of sandbox style play, or better, classic-MMORPG. Longevity.
That longevity was achieved by the games being designed and utilized so that the players could build. Build content, build story, build community, build legends. Recently this genre's AAA releases have all but stripped that out of the games and replaced it with more and more combat.
But the yearning is still there, and I still think there is proof of that, even if you disagree as to what I would consider proof in the matter.
Nah .. short games are fine. You can move-on and have new experiences faster.
What's to stop you from leaving a game with longevity, if you're in need of a new experience? Leaving behind a game for the others to still enjoy in the long term while you find another title to play, perhaps a shorter, faster paced title?
I don't disagree with you. Some people want this and some people want that. I don't see that as a reason to completely stop designing either one, though.
Nothing. I am not arguing i cannot quit. I am arguing that the statement "Sooner or later, even the most devout themepark fan will yearn for a game that will last longer than what they've been playing." is not true.
I wouldn't consider a review article as a credible source, unless it was a direct quote from the developer. Anyone could do a review and call it a themepark.
I'd hate to give them that kind of power. They are like used car salesmen, they'll say anything to sell games and get people hyped
I don't see a problem. It is just a label. No one says "sandbox = good game".
Words are how we communicate, not using similar words causes all sorts of confusion.
Gubba muck, wump Spiff
Generic labels are not exact anyway. No one buys a game because it is a "mmorpg", or a "sandbox" without reading detailed descriptions of features or watching a gameplay video.
So again ... just a genre label is not that important.
Reported!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Lol
Wow proved themepark can be legendery.
Eve proved sandbox can be legendery.
All themeparks after WoW flopped or are at lifesupport
All sandbox's afyer ECE flopped or are at lifesupport
Its such a thin line from failure to world domination.
Give players the tools and they build an Empire, take away the tools and dumb a game down and players get bored fast and /uninstall
Blade and Soul / Archeage / FFXIV / WoD are on my radar but i have such big skeptical mindset now that i just pray one of these will hold my interest longer then a few weeks.
But they're casual... both of them. Maybe I'm wrong, but don't most sandbox fans want some kind of hardcore experience? In that case, it's not so much that sandboxes are guaranteed to be popular, but much more popular with casual players because, well, the hardcore market is not a huge market, much less the hardcore sandbox market.
People (not you necessarily) need to quit using single player casual games as evidence of sandbox popularity, because this is an MMO forum and that's what OP is talking about when it comes down to it. And they're not popular.