Originally posted by danwest58 WILDSTAR has nothing new, they are just copying Vanilla Wow and making it in their own world. They dont even realize that 40 man raids will never work again. Wildstar will end up a pile of crap because they are just copying Vanilla wow because of nostalgia. Thats it that is all this game is trying to be. WOW 2004
Copying Vanilla WoW. Interesting, let's do some fact checking. I find it funny that the claim is made on a post of a video that features movement very different from WoW.
Things in WildStar that were never in WoW: extensive player housing, the Path's systems, Free-form targeting, dash, double jump, own server only' option for LFG finder, NO raid finder, circuit board crafting system, WARPLOTS, tradeskill nodes that can attack you back, Galactic Archives (this list is just off the top of my head).
By the way, WoW in 2004 didn't have a lot of things including lfg finder, battlegrounds, or arenas.
On another note, if the "coyping" is in art style, you should look again. WildStar's art is in the style of a cartoon/graphic novel not WoW. The lead concept artist of the game was hired by Disney and helped make Wreck-it-Ralph.
If the copying is "big raids" then, you should know that EQ had much bigger raids, and in 2008 eventually cut raid size to 42.
I'm not saying a WoW player won't feel at home in WildStar, but to simply call it a copy of WoW in 2004 is not accurate.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Like an EQ2 rouge where you had to be on the side for some attacks to work and at the back for double damage / some attacks. I think that's probly what they mean with the movement.
Originally posted by danwest58 WILDSTAR has nothing new, they are just copying Vanilla Wow and making it in their own world. They dont even realize that 40 man raids will never work again. Wildstar will end up a pile of crap because they are just copying Vanilla wow because of nostalgia. Thats it that is all this game is trying to be. WOW 2004
Really? Warplots, path system and double jump all come to mind.
"Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"
Originally posted by Kaynos1972 Interesting videos but what i really wanted to know is not covered. Can you dodge (move away) from mobs and players missile attacks i.e. fireballs ?
Based on what has been shown in videos, some yes and some no. Many abilities are free targeted and use the same telegraph system present throughout the game, some are classic lock on tab targeted.
Movement is irrelevant to an MMO. It is latency that is important, and becomes more important with the increase emphasis on movement. I really feel like they are putting themselves into a corner by increasing the expectations that the game will offer superior movement over it's competitors.
Both online FPSes and offline RPGs would be better options if this was an important aspect of game play.
As much as this game interests me I can't get over the ground marking for all enemy attacks as well as your own, so cheesy, I want to look at my character and the mobs, not the ground.
It's like a safety net for bad players but it bores good players.
I don't think this is true for everyone, and I don't think looking at the ground around your character is an issue. We have to see how it pans out though, but even the much complained about disco floor, could be fine in action, just have to see it for yourself.
Also I don't think this is anything about a safety net like people complain about, I feel like its way more about being able to play your character fluidly, and react to the game as whole, so you hone your skills and they help you in every aspect of combat. To me, having a one size fits all "stay out of red" is better than getting one shot by a look, or a movement based signal that is specific to each mob.
It will just depend how the challenge scales in the content that will make or break this design decision which we can only wait till we play it too decide. Or not, whatevs
Originally posted by danwest58 WILDSTAR has nothing new, they are just copying Vanilla Wow and making it in their own world. They dont even realize that 40 man raids will never work again. Wildstar will end up a pile of crap because they are just copying Vanilla wow because of nostalgia. Thats it that is all this game is trying to be. WOW 2004
you are aware that 20 of the wildstar devs came straight from the world of warcraft team right? your basically saying they are copying their own ideas, which yea...most developers tend to build upon their original concepts in new games. Also I would disagree that they are trying to bank off of the old wow nostalgia, considering they have many original landscapes, systems, and story ideas. It just bugs me when people say things without researching...I mean...with that logic I could say every super Nintendo game is a rip off of super Mario because super Nintendo games are 2d platformers where you run and jump....but OH Mario did it first though! lol
They sure like putting a lot of focus on things most people that play the game will stop caring about after 5 minutes
Endgame and class balance are the only things that matter and should be getting the most development time
Anything else is total fluff and false hype GW2 style
I'm actually pretty happy they are focusing so much on getting basic mechanics, like character control and response, running smoothly. Since we will be doing it so much over and over again, getting it right the first time will set the game up to be more enjoyable then say, SWTOR's launch with ability delay or Warhammer Online's launch with syncing issues. These things make players get angry with the game, even when they can't place their thumb on the reason. Its usually why you hear the phrase 'clunky' or 'sluggish' so often with these types of games.
To the oblivious gamer that doesn't know what he's looking for, it may not seem to mean much to get movement working as smoothly as possible, but to the hardcore raiders and PvP players, it will shape their experience and be another factor to consider on whether they stay or leave.
As much as this game interests me I can't get over the ground marking for all enemy attacks as well as your own, so cheesy, I want to look at my character and the mobs, not the ground.
It's like a safety net for bad players but it bores good players.
Did you watch the video that directly addresses that and actually see how complex the combat telegraphs can get? I'm kind of glad they're there when enemies can be as random as that dashing one.
What dashing one? I didn't see any complex telegraphs in this video.
I just saw moves where if the enemy did them once, you'd know when they were going to do it again and move... no reason for stupid markings on the ground ever.
1) Takes away from immersion.
2) Doesn't reward skill.
3) Takes emphasis off the monster and puts it on the ground.
4) It's boring, instead of learning a monsters attacks, you already know the range and when it's going to happen by simply staring at the ground waiting for a dumb marking to appear.
I got to first see Double Jumps in Unreal and it turned me off big time.I see absolutely no good in it,it is not adding anything to the game.When you jump normally you have to hit the jump button twice anyhow,so there is no difference.To get the added height might seem fun to them but to me it turned my beloved Unreal series into a joke.That is why i prefer vanilla Unreal and not all the nonsense they added later on.
Wildstar started on the right path to making good thoughtful combat,adding this is a step backwards and all just because someone thought it would be cool or fun.It shows how little thought they put into it because they contradict themselves.They said it could not be used to evade an attack but to more or less jump over something to escape.Well how does that relate to FUN?
It is not like a well placed lift that allows you to escape,your attacker can do the exact same DJ as you are,so it really adds nothing at all.I think the truth is they saw it as an easy way to implement the exploration mode with higher cliffs.The Exploration mode might be fun for some, but i just don't get into console type gaming where i am doing puzzle jumping.I would prefer well thought out thinking puzzles than keyboard button presses.
If i was to take it serious,i would like to see a timer on the DJ,perhaps only every 10-20 seconds and you should be able to avoid attacks using it .Dodging is a good idea as done by Unreal also i just hope it is not done like GW2 with the rolling,that is NOT dodging that is a tuck n roll.
One thing i will say is that they don't seem satisfied,they are constantly looking for new ideas which is always a good thing for gaming,just so long it doesn't get too cheesy.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I also love their sense of humor and i love fun but there is a fine line to fun and just plain silly.I hope they keep it in check because they already have the cartoon graphics,if things get too goofy it will turn off a large portion of mature gamers.
I will use an example that really turned me off from WOW,since these guys are from WOW.The first day i login to WOW,i was greeted by tons of childish players all forming a choo choo train and hitting that emote.I was like are you F'ing kidding me,what is this a hangout for 10 year olds?
Needless to say i logged out and tried again a few days later.I do not like that kind of childish behavior in my games.That is NOT fun that is plain silly.BTW that nonsense went on for about a full week /sigh.
This was after a week of trying out EQ2,which was better but full of bickering over EQ1 versus EQ2.
Both games sent me back to playing FFXI where i decided to stay for many years.
It became a no brainer and the first real times i realized that community and maturity DO MATTER.I had seen mention of that for years leading up to that but never really thought much of it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I also love their sense of humor and i love fun but there is a fine line to fun and just plain silly.I hope they keep it in check because they already have the cartoon graphics,if things get too goofy it will turn off a large portion of mature gamers.
I will use an example that really turned me off from WOW,since these guys are from WOW.The first day i login to WOW,i was greeted by tons of childish players all forming a choo choo train and hitting that emote.I was like are you F'ing kidding me,what is this a hangout for 10 year olds?
Needless to say i logged out and tried again a few days later.I do not like that kind of childish behavior in my games.That is NOT fun that is plain silly.BTW that nonsense went on for about a full week /sigh.
This was after a week of trying out EQ2,which was better but full of bickering over EQ1 versus EQ2.
Both games sent me back to playing FFXI where i decided to stay for many years.
It became a no brainer and the first real times i realized that community and maturity DO MATTER.I had seen mention of that for years leading up to that but never really thought much of it.
Yet another Hyped-up game. You hear stories about these games and they become bigger and more overwhelming. We, humans, are always critics and when you finally see the product, it never lives up to it's hype, and it's not a dig at Wildstar, but people are always like "Oh you gotta see this, it's the greatest, it's the newest thing" and we you finally see it it's like "Meh, what is this game.. that's it?"
And it's not like these hyped games aren't polished or aren't good, it's just that people get the expectation that it offers something new and exciting. They never bring a lot of new stuff to the table and a lot of times they lack end-game content, so the people who play it, quickly get tired of it. You always see the most servers at launch, then they slowly diminish and the game ends up having a low playerbase, which means less money for development, which again means no great end-game content.
To me it just looks like a combination between WoW and Guild Wars 2. Old classic quest system which already kills it for me there, because it's boring. We've done this too many times. No matter how the game looks or feels, it's always a lame chore to go kill bandits for stolen bags or go collect stones in the grass. Dungeons are based on The Holy Trinity (sourcehttp://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/uplink_analysis_the_holy_trinity.php)
If I wanted to run an old school model of a game like this, I would be playing WoW. First and foremost, because they have had years to polish their game. The graphics are practically the same and you know that they have the money to keep producing content.
I'm not saying that this means that WIldstar will be a bad game, but for all the people out there who are looking for the next greatest MMO, because you are tired of the other ones currently out there, don't get your hopes up. This game will be no revolution, it will offer you no more than the games that are already available.
"(...)You could, for example, take your Spellslinger and jump him off a cliff. If you had an enemy target back on safe footing, you could use Spatial Shift to switch places with them... leaving your enemy to Wile E. Coyote off the cliff while you watch in sadistic glee."
"(...) In some cases, attacks may disorient a player, leaving their controls completely reassigned to other keys so that movement is a chore in and of itself. (...)"
In other news, game will be renamed to "Trollstar".
Sounds fun, but taking away a player's control over their character is a risky move. No one likes to be, eg stun locked. Imagine having your controls randomly reassigned, and you have one key to break out of it, which of course is also reassigned. I hope they'll manage to keep these abilities balanced.
Looks like a more modern WoW. The graphics aren't for me, and it looks VERY watered down in terms of gameplay mechanics.
However, for a Themepark game it looks awesome. I'm sad that I've been over Themepark games since Warhammer. So I'll have to pass unless I see some Sandbox elements as endgame content .
As much as this game interests me I can't get over the ground marking for all enemy attacks as well as your own, so cheesy, I want to look at my character and the mobs, not the ground.
It's like a safety net for bad players but it bores good players.
I thought the same thing. Played Neverwinter and changed my mind. It honestly allows the fights to be much more challenging and movement oriented. Some fights are a challenge just to get to a safe area and it's really exhilarating. Sitting at my keyboard and I'm spamming that dodge button screaming "MOVE!MOVE!MOVE!" I also bet I'm not the only person who's died and been like "WTF WAS THAT?" Dodging from a big red "DAMAGE INCOMING" into a smaller red "OH FUCK" and getting killed actually made me feel pretty good. I knew why I died and it was like "Ah, I'll be watching for that next time. GG Cryptic"
Neverwinter doesn't employ the telegraphing to the extent that W* will though. Most mobs have a small dash attack or AoE and you see that, but it's not really a big part of trash fights. With bosses though it can get insane with all the telegraphs from the boss and the adds and your team. It's hectic, it's challenging, and it's FUN. I really look forward to seeing the crazy stuff that Carbine has in store for us.
Comments
Copying Vanilla WoW. Interesting, let's do some fact checking. I find it funny that the claim is made on a post of a video that features movement very different from WoW.
Things in WildStar that were never in WoW: extensive player housing, the Path's systems, Free-form targeting, dash, double jump, own server only' option for LFG finder, NO raid finder, circuit board crafting system, WARPLOTS, tradeskill nodes that can attack you back, Galactic Archives (this list is just off the top of my head).
By the way, WoW in 2004 didn't have a lot of things including lfg finder, battlegrounds, or arenas.
On another note, if the "coyping" is in art style, you should look again. WildStar's art is in the style of a cartoon/graphic novel not WoW. The lead concept artist of the game was hired by Disney and helped make Wreck-it-Ralph.
If the copying is "big raids" then, you should know that EQ had much bigger raids, and in 2008 eventually cut raid size to 42.
I'm not saying a WoW player won't feel at home in WildStar, but to simply call it a copy of WoW in 2004 is not accurate.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Really? Warplots, path system and double jump all come to mind.
"Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"
Based on what has been shown in videos, some yes and some no. Many abilities are free targeted and use the same telegraph system present throughout the game, some are classic lock on tab targeted.
http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/
Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!
Movement is irrelevant to an MMO. It is latency that is important, and becomes more important with the increase emphasis on movement. I really feel like they are putting themselves into a corner by increasing the expectations that the game will offer superior movement over it's competitors.
Both online FPSes and offline RPGs would be better options if this was an important aspect of game play.
I don't think this is true for everyone, and I don't think looking at the ground around your character is an issue. We have to see how it pans out though, but even the much complained about disco floor, could be fine in action, just have to see it for yourself.
Also I don't think this is anything about a safety net like people complain about, I feel like its way more about being able to play your character fluidly, and react to the game as whole, so you hone your skills and they help you in every aspect of combat. To me, having a one size fits all "stay out of red" is better than getting one shot by a look, or a movement based signal that is specific to each mob.
It will just depend how the challenge scales in the content that will make or break this design decision which we can only wait till we play it too decide. Or not, whatevs
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
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They sure like putting a lot of focus on things most people that play the game will stop caring about after 5 minutes
Endgame and class balance are the only things that matter and should be getting the most development time
Anything else is total fluff and false hype GW2 style
you are aware that 20 of the wildstar devs came straight from the world of warcraft team right? your basically saying they are copying their own ideas, which yea...most developers tend to build upon their original concepts in new games. Also I would disagree that they are trying to bank off of the old wow nostalgia, considering they have many original landscapes, systems, and story ideas. It just bugs me when people say things without researching...I mean...with that logic I could say every super Nintendo game is a rip off of super Mario because super Nintendo games are 2d platformers where you run and jump....but OH Mario did it first though! lol
I'm actually pretty happy they are focusing so much on getting basic mechanics, like character control and response, running smoothly. Since we will be doing it so much over and over again, getting it right the first time will set the game up to be more enjoyable then say, SWTOR's launch with ability delay or Warhammer Online's launch with syncing issues. These things make players get angry with the game, even when they can't place their thumb on the reason. Its usually why you hear the phrase 'clunky' or 'sluggish' so often with these types of games.
To the oblivious gamer that doesn't know what he's looking for, it may not seem to mean much to get movement working as smoothly as possible, but to the hardcore raiders and PvP players, it will shape their experience and be another factor to consider on whether they stay or leave.
What dashing one? I didn't see any complex telegraphs in this video.
I just saw moves where if the enemy did them once, you'd know when they were going to do it again and move... no reason for stupid markings on the ground ever.
1) Takes away from immersion.
2) Doesn't reward skill.
3) Takes emphasis off the monster and puts it on the ground.
4) It's boring, instead of learning a monsters attacks, you already know the range and when it's going to happen by simply staring at the ground waiting for a dumb marking to appear.
I got to first see Double Jumps in Unreal and it turned me off big time.I see absolutely no good in it,it is not adding anything to the game.When you jump normally you have to hit the jump button twice anyhow,so there is no difference.To get the added height might seem fun to them but to me it turned my beloved Unreal series into a joke.That is why i prefer vanilla Unreal and not all the nonsense they added later on.
Wildstar started on the right path to making good thoughtful combat,adding this is a step backwards and all just because someone thought it would be cool or fun.It shows how little thought they put into it because they contradict themselves.They said it could not be used to evade an attack but to more or less jump over something to escape.Well how does that relate to FUN?
It is not like a well placed lift that allows you to escape,your attacker can do the exact same DJ as you are,so it really adds nothing at all.I think the truth is they saw it as an easy way to implement the exploration mode with higher cliffs.The Exploration mode might be fun for some, but i just don't get into console type gaming where i am doing puzzle jumping.I would prefer well thought out thinking puzzles than keyboard button presses.
If i was to take it serious,i would like to see a timer on the DJ,perhaps only every 10-20 seconds and you should be able to avoid attacks using it .Dodging is a good idea as done by Unreal also i just hope it is not done like GW2 with the rolling,that is NOT dodging that is a tuck n roll.
One thing i will say is that they don't seem satisfied,they are constantly looking for new ideas which is always a good thing for gaming,just so long it doesn't get too cheesy.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I need to add something i find important.
I also love their sense of humor and i love fun but there is a fine line to fun and just plain silly.I hope they keep it in check because they already have the cartoon graphics,if things get too goofy it will turn off a large portion of mature gamers.
I will use an example that really turned me off from WOW,since these guys are from WOW.The first day i login to WOW,i was greeted by tons of childish players all forming a choo choo train and hitting that emote.I was like are you F'ing kidding me,what is this a hangout for 10 year olds?
Needless to say i logged out and tried again a few days later.I do not like that kind of childish behavior in my games.That is NOT fun that is plain silly.BTW that nonsense went on for about a full week /sigh.
This was after a week of trying out EQ2,which was better but full of bickering over EQ1 versus EQ2.
Both games sent me back to playing FFXI where i decided to stay for many years.
It became a no brainer and the first real times i realized that community and maturity DO MATTER.I had seen mention of that for years leading up to that but never really thought much of it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think I found your picture..
Yet another Hyped-up game. You hear stories about these games and they become bigger and more overwhelming. We, humans, are always critics and when you finally see the product, it never lives up to it's hype, and it's not a dig at Wildstar, but people are always like "Oh you gotta see this, it's the greatest, it's the newest thing" and we you finally see it it's like "Meh, what is this game.. that's it?"
And it's not like these hyped games aren't polished or aren't good, it's just that people get the expectation that it offers something new and exciting. They never bring a lot of new stuff to the table and a lot of times they lack end-game content, so the people who play it, quickly get tired of it. You always see the most servers at launch, then they slowly diminish and the game ends up having a low playerbase, which means less money for development, which again means no great end-game content.
To me it just looks like a combination between WoW and Guild Wars 2. Old classic quest system which already kills it for me there, because it's boring. We've done this too many times. No matter how the game looks or feels, it's always a lame chore to go kill bandits for stolen bags or go collect stones in the grass. Dungeons are based on The Holy Trinity (sourcehttp://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/uplink_analysis_the_holy_trinity.php)
If I wanted to run an old school model of a game like this, I would be playing WoW. First and foremost, because they have had years to polish their game. The graphics are practically the same and you know that they have the money to keep producing content.
I'm not saying that this means that WIldstar will be a bad game, but for all the people out there who are looking for the next greatest MMO, because you are tired of the other ones currently out there, don't get your hopes up. This game will be no revolution, it will offer you no more than the games that are already available.
"(...)You could, for example, take your Spellslinger and jump him off a cliff. If you had an enemy target back on safe footing, you could use Spatial Shift to switch places with them... leaving your enemy to Wile E. Coyote off the cliff while you watch in sadistic glee."
"(...) In some cases, attacks may disorient a player, leaving their controls completely reassigned to other keys so that movement is a chore in and of itself. (...)"
In other news, game will be renamed to "Trollstar".
Sounds fun, but taking away a player's control over their character is a risky move. No one likes to be, eg stun locked. Imagine having your controls randomly reassigned, and you have one key to break out of it, which of course is also reassigned. I hope they'll manage to keep these abilities balanced.
Looks like a more modern WoW. The graphics aren't for me, and it looks VERY watered down in terms of gameplay mechanics.
However, for a Themepark game it looks awesome. I'm sad that I've been over Themepark games since Warhammer. So I'll have to pass unless I see some Sandbox elements as endgame content
.
I thought the same thing. Played Neverwinter and changed my mind. It honestly allows the fights to be much more challenging and movement oriented. Some fights are a challenge just to get to a safe area and it's really exhilarating. Sitting at my keyboard and I'm spamming that dodge button screaming "MOVE!MOVE!MOVE!" I also bet I'm not the only person who's died and been like "WTF WAS THAT?" Dodging from a big red "DAMAGE INCOMING" into a smaller red "OH FUCK" and getting killed actually made me feel pretty good. I knew why I died and it was like "Ah, I'll be watching for that next time. GG Cryptic"
Neverwinter doesn't employ the telegraphing to the extent that W* will though. Most mobs have a small dash attack or AoE and you see that, but it's not really a big part of trash fights. With bosses though it can get insane with all the telegraphs from the boss and the adds and your team. It's hectic, it's challenging, and it's FUN. I really look forward to seeing the crazy stuff that Carbine has in store for us.