EVE and Darkfall involve some small amount of strategic planning with a ton of waiting.
Don't Starve involves similar planning, along with plenty of discovery, and tons of execution of your plans (where the quality of your execution determines how efficient and successful you'll be.) Which provides more opportunity for player skill and game interaction, which just makes it a better overall game.
Pretty big difference. But some players like to sit back and wait and make decisions only rarely.
Cool, you can repeat the things I say.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
"Redundant" and "busy work" is considerably different from describing a system which engages the player in frequent decisions which can be optimized against.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
What it actually proves is that people nowadays are lazy and over demanding about mmo's. The premise and gameplay for dfuw are incredible. Unfortunately the community gets bent out of shape about the dev's lack of communication or annoyances with the UI or other things that make up about 1% of the actual gaming experience.
The fact is that there are no doubt thousands of players who will simply never play dfuw because of the toxic community, not because of anything related to the game.
"Redundant" and "busy work" is considerably different from describing a system which engages the player in frequent decisions which can be optimized against.
When the actions are repetitive and effect stepwise is minor, then it's redundant and busy work.
Even positive reviews of the game mention the game as being as much. Sure it might be an interesting game, but one that at a basis for it's gameplay requires you to consistently gather particular resources and fulfill a finite set of tasks over and over to make sure you don't fail, means that redundancy is built into the game at a very basic level.
You call that engaging, others get bored and do something else. Amazing what the freedom of opinion and individuality does.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
The lack of DF:UW subscribers will cement my position. Stay tuned for the truth to be revealed to you.
Er, the lack of DF subscribers cements the real reasons the game failed: an unpopular premise, weak gameplay, and weak advertising.
It's completely illogical to suggest it cements your position that it's not a "complete sandbox".
Kid in sandbox insists it's not a sandbox unless it has pails and shovels.
The sandbox is located on a remote mountain.
"The lack of other kids proves my position." -Kid
"Uh, no, the fact that you're in some remote goddamn mountain is why there aren't kids. A few shovels will make it more attractive, but there are much bigger influencers at stake." -Logic
You're fanboyism is pathetic. Why aren't you in game if you love it so much. You're not fooling anyone
Sadly, the sandbox market is a desert right now. Eve is the only very good sandbox, and it's space based spreadsheet environment isn't for everyone. I am waiting until The Repopulation comes out. They seem to be offering the next decent sandbox experience.
Have to say that I think eve 'justifies' a subscription more than any mmo i've come across so far and it can be played for free with plex. Can also be done on a free trial but would probably take a decent amount of effort(and maybe luck).
For f2p u could try ryzom or planeshift. Or even uncharted waters but it's not really that much of a sandbox tbh. mortal online also has a f2p model read into that what u will.
Realistically though if u don't want to try eve you're probably be better of waiting to see what some of the 'in the works' mmos(linkrealms, archage and so on) will offer.
Have to say that I think eve 'justifies' a subscription more than any mmo i've come across so far and it can be played for free with plex. Can also be done on a free trial but would probably take a decent amount of effort(and maybe luck).
For f2p u could try ryzom or planeshift. Or even uncharted waters but it's not really that much of a sandbox tbh. mortal online also has a f2p model read into that what u will.
Realistically though if u don't want to try eve you're probably be better of waiting to see what some of the 'in the works' mmos(linkrealms, archage and so on) will offer.
Yea, Eve Online has been the only game to keep me playing for a long time since the demise of SWG. I find that the game play is SOO slow that it's more like a game of chess than a normal video game. That said, I've been playing since 2009 and don't plan on stopping any time soon, but I always play a second game at the same time.
Currently it's defiance which is fun, but appears to have the lasting power of a 15 year old boy touching his first woman.
I hope that The Repopulation is as good as alpha gameplay makes it seem like it will be.
I have played eve online i just don't see sandbox devs rig events, SWG was sandbox game, eve is over hyped as sandbox , i have played sandbox and eve is NOT sandbox.
Archeage is sandbox although it won't hit north america this year from looks of it.
Originally posted by Quirhid I've heard nothing good about DF
funny that you have over 4000 posts, and yet, you apparently don't READ these forums.
Me too. Nothing good about DF, not enough to check it out anyway. I played the first one for a few days, not a lot but enought to know it wasn't for me.
I've heard it's changed but not better.
just goes to show you are willing to pretend nothing outside your own view exists.
since when does "nothing" == "not enough". they are quite different things.
you can't twist it. Quirhid just said something completely out of touch with reality and with no integrity.
start paying attention if you are actually reading the forum.
or are you proud to display how you have no ability to absorb anything you read?
Kind of depends on personal interest. The game keeps you scuttling about doing things, but it's very redundant in how it makes you ultimately go about doing it. For some people all they need is the activity.
EVE and Darkfall both live away from that scenario where a lot of time is spent kicking back waiting for things to build up. There might be more options or more sense of progress over long term, but it's also at a more lethargic pace that makes it harder to tolerate.
Makes it a situation where you either want the busy work or you want the big shiny things.
As far as sandbox elements I enjoy as it relates to all this, it's generally just the creative elements. Spore with Galactic Adventures is a good example in that while the basic gameplay wasn't that deep and was very easily shuffled through quickly, it was the toolkit that you could tinker with at any time that gave so much fun.
The ability to design planets, buildings, vehicles, creatures, items, and even interactive questlines to play through with narrative elements allowed me to come up with my own moments to experience and share with other Spore players.
So it's kind of a third element to sandbox play, the creative elements, that I end up preferring. I don't really see either Darkfall nor EVE to really be strong on those aspects, as it's reliant on things remaining static on some level.
EVE and Darkfall involve some small amount of strategic planning with a ton of waiting.
Don't Starve involves similar planning, along with plenty of discovery, and tons of execution of your plans (where the quality of your execution determines how efficient and successful you'll be.) Which provides more opportunity for player skill and game interaction, which just makes it a better overall game.
Pretty big difference. But some players like to sit back and wait and make decisions only rarely.
thats what's so funny about you praising Don't Starve. the WHOLE GAME is about waiting! interspersed with tons of mindless busywork.
I'm with this dude. Wurm is THE best sandbox out there that also has decent numbers. Xsyon is awesome if you can put up with lack of people and future and EVE is just being EVE (I like it but after 8 years one does get tired of same old same old).
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
i suppose you have a different version of Don't Starve than the one i played.
because calling what i played fun would be a big surprise.
Survival- and gameplay-focused sandbox games with a good sense of pacing, exploration, and discovery, and a fantastic art style aren't for everyone I suppose.
the art style was nice.
that's the ONLY good thing about it. terrible pacing, terrible exploration. terrible game.
kinda explains why your opinions on MMOs are so off base.
Originally posted by Quirhid I've heard nothing good about DF
funny that you have over 4000 posts, and yet, you apparently don't READ these forums.
I think every "good" post I read about DF is counterbalanced by a healthy dose of caveats, excuses and acknowledgments of failure in various areas. I think a certain type of player really likes the concept of DF, I can't recall many saying it's good.
On the other hand there are many posts complaining about how half-arsed, bug-ridden, hackable, and generally toxic the game is.
The general vibe I get is that it's on a slightly higher rung than that awful awful "The War Z".
then you ACTUALLY don't read these forums much, so you have an excuse. you have a low post count too, so it all adds up.
but these other blinkered guys have thousands of posts and are always around here spamming up every semi-popular thread.
The Repopulation for sure. In depth crafting system, player cities, housing, skill based and much more. I hope they can deliver the whole stuff but all in all I am rly looking forward to it. It's just looks like a new SWG (SWG 2.0) for me.
Vendetta Online lets you develop your own characters and write them into the game using an open-ended web based editor. Or you can come up with entire systems, events, and items. If that's not sandbox, I don't know what is.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Comments
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/335502/page/1
Cool, you can repeat the things I say.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Shadowbane was my favorite sandbox game.
The emulator is in closed beta, but it should be in in open beta soon.
"Redundant" and "busy work" is considerably different from describing a system which engages the player in frequent decisions which can be optimized against.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
and that is the TRUTH 101.
When the actions are repetitive and effect stepwise is minor, then it's redundant and busy work.
Even positive reviews of the game mention the game as being as much. Sure it might be an interesting game, but one that at a basis for it's gameplay requires you to consistently gather particular resources and fulfill a finite set of tasks over and over to make sure you don't fail, means that redundancy is built into the game at a very basic level.
You call that engaging, others get bored and do something else. Amazing what the freedom of opinion and individuality does.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You're fanboyism is pathetic. Why aren't you in game if you love it so much. You're not fooling anyone
Calling a game an unpopular premise with weak gameplay is pretty far from fanboyism, isn't it?
But a sandbox is a sandbox, and let's not pretend DF isn't a sandbox just because it has bad gameplay (plenty of sandboxes have bad gameplay!)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Have to say that I think eve 'justifies' a subscription more than any mmo i've come across so far and it can be played for free with plex. Can also be done on a free trial but would probably take a decent amount of effort(and maybe luck).
For f2p u could try ryzom or planeshift. Or even uncharted waters but it's not really that much of a sandbox tbh. mortal online also has a f2p model read into that what u will.
Realistically though if u don't want to try eve you're probably be better of waiting to see what some of the 'in the works' mmos(linkrealms, archage and so on) will offer.
Yea, Eve Online has been the only game to keep me playing for a long time since the demise of SWG. I find that the game play is SOO slow that it's more like a game of chess than a normal video game. That said, I've been playing since 2009 and don't plan on stopping any time soon, but I always play a second game at the same time.
Currently it's defiance which is fun, but appears to have the lasting power of a 15 year old boy touching his first woman.
I hope that The Repopulation is as good as alpha gameplay makes it seem like it will be.
I have played eve online i just don't see sandbox devs rig events, SWG was sandbox game, eve is over hyped as sandbox , i have played sandbox and eve is NOT sandbox.
Archeage is sandbox although it won't hit north america this year from looks of it.
just goes to show you are willing to pretend nothing outside your own view exists.
since when does "nothing" == "not enough". they are quite different things.
you can't twist it. Quirhid just said something completely out of touch with reality and with no integrity.
start paying attention if you are actually reading the forum.
or are you proud to display how you have no ability to absorb anything you read?
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thats what's so funny about you praising Don't Starve. the WHOLE GAME is about waiting! interspersed with tons of mindless busywork.
Don't Starve While You Wait
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I'm with this dude. Wurm is THE best sandbox out there that also has decent numbers. Xsyon is awesome if you can put up with lack of people and future and EVE is just being EVE (I like it but after 8 years one does get tired of same old same old).
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
the art style was nice.
that's the ONLY good thing about it. terrible pacing, terrible exploration. terrible game.
kinda explains why your opinions on MMOs are so off base.
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then you ACTUALLY don't read these forums much, so you have an excuse. you have a low post count too, so it all adds up.
but these other blinkered guys have thousands of posts and are always around here spamming up every semi-popular thread.
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"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance