All these cries for 'gimme free stuff', work for it like everyone else, deal with the suicidal learning curve just like everyone else. Why should a game change because YOU can't afford a ship if you get into a fight?
Originally posted by karghast All these cries for 'gimme free stuff', work for it like everyone else, deal with the suicidal learning curve just like everyone else. Why should a game change because YOU can't afford a ship if you get into a fight?
Free ships would certainly hurt the economy, you are bringing in a free BC that should be bought off the market, you are directly changing the "player driven" part that is such a huge part of this games identity.
Eve is a sandbox, it is not really ment for casual play, Themepark games are most suited for casual, that is not to say there are not casuals in eve, I have been casual at times (more of a maintenance thing). If you going to be casual in eve you need to figure out how to generate isk when your not online to support yourself when you are online.
As for the free ships in FW, there are lots of corps out there that do give free frigs to their members...maybe you should find one of them and this silly free ships for FW pilots would be over.
I am sorry but really this whole freedium BS is getting to me, ppl seem to think every game needs to implement this or part of it. It really is to much. Some games do fine and are ment to not use this freedium model, eve-online is one of them. Eve offers lots of ways to get things for free and even play the game for free, it is up to the player to figure out how to do it.
How much does buy from the market a player that does not play ? How much does ccp from a player that does not play a subscription ? How many kills do you get in your usual roam which are not ganks on gate??
More Players to slave out... More Players to Scam... more Players to Suicide Gank... more Players to Hunt...
tldr; More Victims. All PvP MMOs need fresh meat. That's how PvP really works. The Strong feed off of the Weak. The Casuals are perfect.
/sarcasm off
Exactly. I would not be afraid to engage because of loosing ship unless i am 99% sure that i win.
With a "free" ship i would undock even for 20% chance to win.
We would both get a fight and one of us will get a KM.
How is this worse than no fight and no km ?
This is the reason why PvP in Eve is crap. It is either gank or be ganked as most people will be reluctant to engage into PvP unless they are sure they would win.
If you would know that you had less to lose, then you would be more inclined to engage into PvP, even if you think you could lose. However gankers would feel less satisfied to gank someone if they knew their victim would not lose much, as they are somewhat of a sadist.
And I dont think it is the price of the ship per se that is the issue here. It is more the price of the ship AND the price of all your modules, plus the hassle to get all that together. If I could pay a package price, every time I died, to get back my ships and all modules at the station of my choosing, then I would not mind as much the loss of price.
But no, you have to spend 30 minutes, chasing down all the modules and crap, to get your ship back and that is why I felt Eve PvP was so bad. Essentially half an hour of downtime for every death, how is that "fun"?
okedoke. let's do this. i wasn't going to respond to your earlier post because it was so absurd that this was your metric for knowledge of EvE, but i will respond to this one.
a: 9mil sp combat pilot. focused entirely on flying canes as well as i can, even after the nerf.
b: shuttles and rookie ships (which i admit, i thought were synonyms) are both good for one thing: moving something tiny between two places really quickly. bam. beyond that they certainly seem to be basically the same.
c: who. cares. rookie ships and shuttles aren't what i have spent countless hours messing with. as previously stated, i am a combat pilot and couldn't give fewer cares about little non combat couriers.
d: there is no d. i don't even so hard from your belief that i need to know about courier ships, some of the most inconsequential ships in EvE, to be considered to have any knowledge about the gamethat my mind is actually shutting down.
e: this has nothing to do with the conversation at hand, a conversation i might add that you seem to have no interest in engaging with or considering.
So this is already in the game, what's the point of this thread?
Good point. But i would pay hundreds of $ per month to pvp. Either is something affordable and convenient or i will keep giving money to other games.
A billion isk is a lot of pvp rifters.
What exactly are you asking for here considering what you want is already possible? I mean, do you want free ships and the game to be an arena style combat sim?
As for the free ships in FW, there are lots of corps out there that do give free frigs to their members...maybe you should find one of them and this silly free ships for FW pilots would be over.
I am sorry but really this whole freedium BS is getting to me, ppl seem to think every game needs to implement this or part of it. It really is to much. Some games do fine and are ment to not use this freedium model, eve-online is one of them. Eve offers lots of ways to get things for free and even play the game for free, it is up to the player to figure out how to do it.
no. it's not a matter of frigs. it's a matter of cruisers and bcs. these are ships that can be very expensive to buy and fit, especially for new players, and providing an area where they can get used to flying them in PvP, handling them, their tactics, etc. is something which EvE utterly lacks. bcs don't fly like frigs, and you don't fly or fit in PvP like you do in PvE. the ability to experiment and gain experience with different fits or ship categories in a low-risk environment would be a fantastic addition to EvE.
and heck, this sort of training environment is even provided in real life, yet EvE, in this way, is trying to be more hardcore than real life. i would ask you to reread my posts to get a clearer idea of what i'm proposing if you haven't already. the ships i recommend would have a negligible effect on FW due to their power (or rather lack thereof).
i agree though. freemium or f2p is not a suitable model for EvE. what EvE desperately needs though is a way for pilots to get used to handling different categories of ships
They're called missions, they PAY you to learn how to fly different classes of ships! The whole instant gratification crowd has ruins many a MMORPG. Let them not get their hands on EVE.
And sorry, i forgot to address your other point. If we remove the pricetag on ships then losing and killing them would not be less fun which would eliminate the biggest appeal of EVE.
Let me know the corp that gave you like 20 ships per week to roam.
...
if you are a little bit more then a deadweight there are A LOT of corps who are willing to provide free ships. But yeh, if you just want to log on and get free ships then no corp will ever work like that.
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
And sorry, i forgot to address your other point. If we remove the pricetag on ships then losing and killing them would not be less fun which would eliminate the biggest appeal of EVE.
Let me know the corp that gave you like 20 ships per week to roam.
...
if you are a little bit more then a deadweight there are A LOT of corps who are willing to provide free ships. But yeh, if you just want to log on and get free ships then no corp will ever work like that.
Oooh and.... if you have limited funds, why not fly something you can afford? a well fitted frig is 5 million or so and not too bad in PvP. You can get 10 frigs per hour doing some PvP.
Originally posted by apanz3r.
Can i be blamed that I just want to pvp ?
The thing that makes EVEs PvP so gratifying is the risk of losing a ship that has some cost assigned to it. If there no cost assigned then EVE would be pretty darn boring
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
no. it's not a matter of frigs. it's a matter of cruisers and bcs. these are ships that can be very expensive to buy and fit, especially for new players, and providing an area where they can get used to flying them in PvP, handling them, their tactics, etc. is something which EvE utterly lacks. bcs don't fly like frigs, and you don't fly or fit in PvP like you do in PvE. the ability to experiment and gain experience with different fits or ship categories in a low-risk environment would be a fantastic addition to EvE.
and heck, this sort of training environment is even provided in real life, yet EvE, in this way, is trying to be more hardcore than real life. i would ask you to reread my posts to get a clearer idea of what i'm proposing if you haven't already. the ships i recommend would have a negligible effect on FW due to their power (or rather lack thereof).
i agree though. freemium or f2p is not a suitable model for EvE. what EvE desperately needs though is a way for pilots to get used to handling different categories of ships
They're called missions, they PAY you to learn how to fly different classes of ships! The whole instant gratification crowd has ruins many a MMORPG. Let them not get their hands on EVE.
please reread the highlighted bit above.
and it's not a matter of instant gratification. it's a matter of risk management which isn't something EvE lets you do. every military organization in world does risk management in the form of training, and all i'm asking is that EvE provide the same.
no. it's not a matter of frigs. it's a matter of cruisers and bcs. these are ships that can be very expensive to buy and fit, especially for new players, and providing an area where they can get used to flying them in PvP, handling them, their tactics, etc. is something which EvE utterly lacks. bcs don't fly like frigs, and you don't fly or fit in PvP like you do in PvE. the ability to experiment and gain experience with different fits or ship categories in a low-risk environment would be a fantastic addition to EvE.
and heck, this sort of training environment is even provided in real life, yet EvE, in this way, is trying to be more hardcore than real life. i would ask you to reread my posts to get a clearer idea of what i'm proposing if you haven't already. the ships i recommend would have a negligible effect on FW due to their power (or rather lack thereof).
i agree though. freemium or f2p is not a suitable model for EvE. what EvE desperately needs though is a way for pilots to get used to handling different categories of ships
They're called missions, they PAY you to learn how to fly different classes of ships! The whole instant gratification crowd has ruins many a MMORPG. Let them not get their hands on EVE.
please reread the highlighted bit above.
and it's not a matter of instant gratification. it's a matter of risk management which isn't something EvE lets you do. every military organization in world does risk management in the form of training, and all i'm asking is that EvE provide the same.
The people who provide the training are your corpmates in your new player friendly pvp corporation. If you complain that the NPC corp or the mining maniac megacorp didn't train you in pvp, well...
EVE is about interactions between players. If you want to know something, ask a player. That's how it is supposed to work. Aura does not hold your hand.
So this is already in the game, what's the point of this thread?
Good point. But i would pay hundreds of $ per month to pvp. Either is something affordable and convenient or i will keep giving money to other games.
A billion isk is a lot of pvp rifters.
What exactly are you asking for here considering what you want is already possible? I mean, do you want free ships and the game to be an arena style combat sim?
Well eve is already an arena. Just a big one.
So in this respect yes, i would want free ships to pvp. Not the best ones, some middle class.
I don;t want to NEED to have 2-3 alts to do anything in eve. I want 1 account, extra fee for gold ships or maybe some special insurance. And i want to pvp not so spin ship or to boring stuff like running mission over and over again. In which the only challenge is how fast you can make them.
So this is already in the game, what's the point of this thread?
Good point. But i would pay hundreds of $ per month to pvp. Either is something affordable and convenient or i will keep giving money to other games.
A billion isk is a lot of pvp rifters.
What exactly are you asking for here considering what you want is already possible? I mean, do you want free ships and the game to be an arena style combat sim?
Well eve is already an arena. Just a big one.
So in this respect yes, i would want free ships to pvp. Not the best ones, some middle class.
I don;t want to NEED to have 2-3 alts to do anything in eve. I want 1 account, extra fee for gold ships or maybe some special insurance. And i want to pvp not so spin ship or to boring stuff like running mission over and over again. In which the only challenge is how fast you can make them.
Why do you want to play EVE then? Why not a different space game that is more like unreal tournament with spaceships?
With PLEX you can have thousands of PVP ships in a moment, but that's not good enough yet for you? I mean, why not just go play a different game really because even the things that get you ships for real money aren't what you want despite you asking for it.
If you'd like me to link you worse space games that offer you unsatisfying combat so you can mindlessly shoot things for no reason, I"ll gladly link you to games that you seem to prefer.
Oooh and.... if you have limited funds, why not fly something you can afford? a well fitted frig is 5 million or so and not too bad in PvP. You can get 10 frigs per hour doing some PvP.
Originally posted by apanz3r.
Can i be blamed that I just want to pvp ?
The thing that makes EVEs PvP so gratifying is the risk of losing a ship that has some cost assigned to it. If there no cost assigned then EVE would be pretty darn boring
Fair enough. Please name a single ship that you can kill in frig in 0.0. I think even an Iteron will kill you.
There will be always better ships in eve. 10 gang battleships will face melt 10gang battle cruisers.
One more example: do you kill ibis if you have the chance ?
Oooh and.... if you have limited funds, why not fly something you can afford? a well fitted frig is 5 million or so and not too bad in PvP. You can get 10 frigs per hour doing some PvP.
Originally posted by apanz3r.
Can i be blamed that I just want to pvp ?
The thing that makes EVEs PvP so gratifying is the risk of losing a ship that has some cost assigned to it. If there no cost assigned then EVE would be pretty darn boring
Fair enough. Please name a single ship that you can kill in frig in 0.0. I think even an Iteron will kill you.
There will be always better ships in eve. 10 gang battleships will face melt 10gang battle cruisers.
One more example: do you kill ibis if you have the chance ?
A mining frigate legit killed a battleship.
What do you even want?
Bigger ship isn't a straight advantage. You have literally no idea what this game is about if you honestly believe that.
The people who provide the training are your corpmates in your new player friendly pvp corporation. If you complain that the NPC corp or the mining maniac megacorp didn't train you in pvp, well...
EVE is about interactions between players. If you want to know something, ask a player. That's how it is supposed to work. Aura does not hold your hand.
all the corps i've joined have been very unhelpful on this front. including EvEUni. moreover, my solution would allow people like me who only have a certain number of hours per day to invest in EvE and can't schedule around attending a lesson or fleet in a game to learn on their own, at their own pace.
The people who provide the training are your corpmates in your new player friendly pvp corporation. If you complain that the NPC corp or the mining maniac megacorp didn't train you in pvp, well...
EVE is about interactions between players. If you want to know something, ask a player. That's how it is supposed to work. Aura does not hold your hand.
all the corps i've joined have been very unhelpful on this front. including EvEUni. moreover, my solution would allow people like me who only have a certain number of hours per day to invest in EvE and can't schedule around attending a lesson or fleet in a game to learn on their own, at their own pace.
Join a faction warfare corp, do incursions and plex's, plenty of ISK right there to go out and pvp with.
The people who provide the training are your corpmates in your new player friendly pvp corporation. If you complain that the NPC corp or the mining maniac megacorp didn't train you in pvp, well...
EVE is about interactions between players. If you want to know something, ask a player. That's how it is supposed to work. Aura does not hold your hand.
all the corps i've joined have been very unhelpful on this front. including EvEUni. moreover, my solution would allow people like me who only have a certain number of hours per day to invest in EvE and can't schedule around attending a lesson or fleet in a game to learn on their own, at their own pace.
Forget EVEUni and lessons. Join a new player friend PVP corp that specifically mentions willingness to train. Don't sit in a classroom, just ask questions, listen to advice, show your fits and ask for crtiques, and go on a roam with them even in a frigate.
Do you think a tutorial video while you sit on the couch in captains quarters would better suit this?
So this is already in the game, what's the point of this thread?
Good point. But i would pay hundreds of $ per month to pvp. Either is something affordable and convenient or i will keep giving money to other games.
A billion isk is a lot of pvp rifters.
What exactly are you asking for here considering what you want is already possible? I mean, do you want free ships and the game to be an arena style combat sim?
Well eve is already an arena. Just a big one.
So in this respect yes, i would want free ships to pvp. Not the best ones, some middle class.
I don;t want to NEED to have 2-3 alts to do anything in eve. I want 1 account, extra fee for gold ships or maybe some special insurance. And i want to pvp not so spin ship or to boring stuff like running mission over and over again. In which the only challenge is how fast you can make them.
Why do you want to play EVE then? Why not a different space game that is more like unreal tournament with spaceships?
With PLEX you can have thousands of PVP ships in a moment, but that's not good enough yet for you? I mean, why not just go play a different game really because even the things that get you ships for real money aren't what you want despite you asking for it.
If you'd like me to link you worse space games that offer you unsatisfying combat so you can mindlessly shoot things for no reason, I"ll gladly link you to games that you seem to prefer.
Good point. I put hopes in Star Citizen and Elite dangerous. I pledged a lot in their campaign.
Be assured next successfully mmo will put a big dent in eve player-base.
Thousands of pvp ships with plex would cost thousands of $$. No thanks. I can do better things with my money. I am not drug-addicted to eve.
So this is already in the game, what's the point of this thread?
Good point. But i would pay hundreds of $ per month to pvp. Either is something affordable and convenient or i will keep giving money to other games.
A billion isk is a lot of pvp rifters.
What exactly are you asking for here considering what you want is already possible? I mean, do you want free ships and the game to be an arena style combat sim?
Well eve is already an arena. Just a big one.
So in this respect yes, i would want free ships to pvp. Not the best ones, some middle class.
I don;t want to NEED to have 2-3 alts to do anything in eve. I want 1 account, extra fee for gold ships or maybe some special insurance. And i want to pvp not so spin ship or to boring stuff like running mission over and over again. In which the only challenge is how fast you can make them.
Why do you want to play EVE then? Why not a different space game that is more like unreal tournament with spaceships?
With PLEX you can have thousands of PVP ships in a moment, but that's not good enough yet for you? I mean, why not just go play a different game really because even the things that get you ships for real money aren't what you want despite you asking for it.
If you'd like me to link you worse space games that offer you unsatisfying combat so you can mindlessly shoot things for no reason, I"ll gladly link you to games that you seem to prefer.
Good point. I put hopes in Star Citizen and Elite dangerous. I pledged a lot in their campaign.
Be assured next successfully mmo will put a big dent in eve player-base.
Thousands of pvp ships with plex would cost thousands of $$. No thanks. I can do better things with my money. I am not drug-addicted to eve.
There's the truth we all were waiting for. Why didn't you just admit you had no interest in EVE?
Join a faction warfare corp, do incursions and plex's, plenty of ISK right there to go out and pvp with.
...assuming you have the time to join in their scheduled fleets. what about solo pilots though? they're out in the cold unless they want to take the massive financial risk involved in cold joining PvP.
So this is already in the game, what's the point of this thread?
Good point. But i would pay hundreds of $ per month to pvp. Either is something affordable and convenient or i will keep giving money to other games.
A billion isk is a lot of pvp rifters.
What exactly are you asking for here considering what you want is already possible? I mean, do you want free ships and the game to be an arena style combat sim?
Well eve is already an arena. Just a big one.
So in this respect yes, i would want free ships to pvp. Not the best ones, some middle class.
I don;t want to NEED to have 2-3 alts to do anything in eve. I want 1 account, extra fee for gold ships or maybe some special insurance. And i want to pvp not so spin ship or to boring stuff like running mission over and over again. In which the only challenge is how fast you can make them.
Comments
Because I pay doh ?
Buy PLEX with real money.
Sell PLEX for ISK.
Buy anything in game with ISK.
So this is already in the game, what's the point of this thread?
How much does buy from the market a player that does not play ? How much does ccp from a player that does not play a subscription ? How many kills do you get in your usual roam which are not ganks on gate??
This is the reason why PvP in Eve is crap. It is either gank or be ganked as most people will be reluctant to engage into PvP unless they are sure they would win.
If you would know that you had less to lose, then you would be more inclined to engage into PvP, even if you think you could lose. However gankers would feel less satisfied to gank someone if they knew their victim would not lose much, as they are somewhat of a sadist.
And I dont think it is the price of the ship per se that is the issue here. It is more the price of the ship AND the price of all your modules, plus the hassle to get all that together. If I could pay a package price, every time I died, to get back my ships and all modules at the station of my choosing, then I would not mind as much the loss of price.
But no, you have to spend 30 minutes, chasing down all the modules and crap, to get your ship back and that is why I felt Eve PvP was so bad. Essentially half an hour of downtime for every death, how is that "fun"?
My gaming blog
okedoke. let's do this. i wasn't going to respond to your earlier post because it was so absurd that this was your metric for knowledge of EvE, but i will respond to this one.
a: 9mil sp combat pilot. focused entirely on flying canes as well as i can, even after the nerf.
b: shuttles and rookie ships (which i admit, i thought were synonyms) are both good for one thing: moving something tiny between two places really quickly. bam. beyond that they certainly seem to be basically the same.
c: who. cares. rookie ships and shuttles aren't what i have spent countless hours messing with. as previously stated, i am a combat pilot and couldn't give fewer cares about little non combat couriers.
d: there is no d. i don't even so hard from your belief that i need to know about courier ships, some of the most inconsequential ships in EvE, to be considered to have any knowledge about the gamethat my mind is actually shutting down.
e: this has nothing to do with the conversation at hand, a conversation i might add that you seem to have no interest in engaging with or considering.
thank you in advance.
[mod edit]
Good point. But i would pay hundreds of $ per month to pvp. Either is something affordable and convenient or i will keep giving money to other games.
A billion isk is a lot of pvp rifters.
What exactly are you asking for here considering what you want is already possible? I mean, do you want free ships and the game to be an arena style combat sim?
They're called missions, they PAY you to learn how to fly different classes of ships! The whole instant gratification crowd has ruins many a MMORPG. Let them not get their hands on EVE.
Now with 57.3% more flames!
...
if you are a little bit more then a deadweight there are A LOT of corps who are willing to provide free ships. But yeh, if you just want to log on and get free ships then no corp will ever work like that.
Can i be blamed that I just want to pvp ?
Oooh and.... if you have limited funds, why not fly something you can afford? a well fitted frig is 5 million or so and not too bad in PvP. You can get 10 frigs per hour doing some PvP.
The thing that makes EVEs PvP so gratifying is the risk of losing a ship that has some cost assigned to it. If there no cost assigned then EVE would be pretty darn boring
please reread the highlighted bit above.
and it's not a matter of instant gratification. it's a matter of risk management which isn't something EvE lets you do. every military organization in world does risk management in the form of training, and all i'm asking is that EvE provide the same.
The people who provide the training are your corpmates in your new player friendly pvp corporation. If you complain that the NPC corp or the mining maniac megacorp didn't train you in pvp, well...
EVE is about interactions between players. If you want to know something, ask a player. That's how it is supposed to work. Aura does not hold your hand.
Well eve is already an arena. Just a big one.
So in this respect yes, i would want free ships to pvp. Not the best ones, some middle class.
I don;t want to NEED to have 2-3 alts to do anything in eve. I want 1 account, extra fee for gold ships or maybe some special insurance. And i want to pvp not so spin ship or to boring stuff like running mission over and over again. In which the only challenge is how fast you can make them.
Why do you want to play EVE then? Why not a different space game that is more like unreal tournament with spaceships?
With PLEX you can have thousands of PVP ships in a moment, but that's not good enough yet for you? I mean, why not just go play a different game really because even the things that get you ships for real money aren't what you want despite you asking for it.
If you'd like me to link you worse space games that offer you unsatisfying combat so you can mindlessly shoot things for no reason, I"ll gladly link you to games that you seem to prefer.
Fair enough. Please name a single ship that you can kill in frig in 0.0. I think even an Iteron will kill you.
There will be always better ships in eve. 10 gang battleships will face melt 10gang battle cruisers.
One more example: do you kill ibis if you have the chance ?
A mining frigate legit killed a battleship.
What do you even want?
Bigger ship isn't a straight advantage. You have literally no idea what this game is about if you honestly believe that.
all the corps i've joined have been very unhelpful on this front. including EvEUni. moreover, my solution would allow people like me who only have a certain number of hours per day to invest in EvE and can't schedule around attending a lesson or fleet in a game to learn on their own, at their own pace.
Join a faction warfare corp, do incursions and plex's, plenty of ISK right there to go out and pvp with.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Forget EVEUni and lessons. Join a new player friend PVP corp that specifically mentions willingness to train. Don't sit in a classroom, just ask questions, listen to advice, show your fits and ask for crtiques, and go on a roam with them even in a frigate.
Do you think a tutorial video while you sit on the couch in captains quarters would better suit this?
Good point. I put hopes in Star Citizen and Elite dangerous. I pledged a lot in their campaign.
Be assured next successfully mmo will put a big dent in eve player-base.
Thousands of pvp ships with plex would cost thousands of $$. No thanks. I can do better things with my money. I am not drug-addicted to eve.
There's the truth we all were waiting for. Why didn't you just admit you had no interest in EVE?
...assuming you have the time to join in their scheduled fleets. what about solo pilots though? they're out in the cold unless they want to take the massive financial risk involved in cold joining PvP.
Thank you for the link .