Originally posted by Punk999 No i hope MMOs never do that... but with the way this genre has been going i wouldnt be surprised.
If you are paying $10 for the game you want and I am paying $10 for the game I want, but the developers can share half the resources across both games, we each get a game with an effective budget of $15.
(my point being that just because you or I don't personally enjoy the other's playstyle, that's not automatically a good reason for us to oppose that playstyle being in our game)
But you don't get games like that. Solo friendly games have ruined grouping for questing. It now makes the game either face roll easy or annoying F'ing around trying to make a group work in a solo designed system.
Most games now are nothing more than a race to end game for ppl who want to group so they can actually do something that requires a group to do. Even mid lvl dungeons are really nothing more than 4-6 solo players soloing a dungeon together to get a quest done. There's no " grouping " going on.Take raids and make it solo friendly too and you've got yourself a solo game.
Raiding is about accomplishing something with other people. If you just gut all that out of there and make it a solo quest you may as well just hand the rewards out when ppl log in....wow does that ever sound like spots in schools now, what a surprise people want it in their games. Here's your medal...now go line up for the race.
No there should be no way to solo raids. Raids are raids because they require more than a full group, as such they would lose everything that is cool about the encounters if they could be done solo while they are current content. Should there be solo raids? no because anything solo could never be a raid to begin with. Should there be solo content? absolutely, thats what kill 10 rats quests are for.
The idea of soloing a raid is asinine. If you want to solo stuff, do a basic mission. If you want better gear raise the difficulty on your solo mission or buy the gear on the market. But the idea of soloing a raid is moronic at best.
Players who play MMO's to solo shouldn't be playing MMO's, there is an abundance of single player games, do us all a favour and go stick with them, solo players are the problem to so many crap MMO's hitting the market.
Unless you manage to design a system thats so tough to master that true masters may even solo certain raidbosses, while the average player still struggles to kill the same opponents with a regular raid.
That would be a cool game. It would probably be worthwhile to play your class for years, just in order to get better and better at it. But I doubt anyone will ever come up with any such a system.
Certainly not WoW. I heard that in WoW its fashion that green drops from mobs replace the raid gear from previous versions. Talk about a truely awful design. So yeah, WoW obviously is extremely gear heavy and skill can thus no longer matter much in that game.
I can see people soloing raid bosses that are much below their level, though.
Unless you manage to design a system thats so tough to master that true masters may even solo certain raidbosses, while the average player still struggles to kill the same opponents with a regular raid.
That would be a cool game. It would probably be worthwhile to play your class for years, just in order to get better and better at it. But I doubt anyone will ever come up with any such a system.
Certainly not WoW. I heard that in WoW its fashion that green drops from mobs replace the raid gear from previous versions. Talk about a truely awful design. So yeah, WoW obviously is extremely gear heavy and skill can thus no longer matter much in that game.
I can see people soloing raid bosses that are much below their level, though.
Like I said above, Vindictus.
It is easier to solo a 24 man boss because you have complete control over them.
Once you learn the boss pattern you know exactly what buttons to push at the right time. It takes a lot of practice because you die a LOT in the beginning and the instance resets or you spend real money getting rezed but the end product is mastery of your class.
Yes, and while they are at it they should remove all those other troublesome players and let me get back to playing my solo RPG. The OP needs a new server where he can play on his own, then maybe he will be happy.
Originally posted by Scot Yes, and while they are at it they should remove all those other troublesome players and let me get back to playing my solo RPG. The OP needs a new server where he can play on his own, then maybe he will be happy.
Yeah. Great idea. A game with both a SP and a MP mode provides choice, and more ways to enjoy.
In fact, i play STO like a SP game and i have great fun.
Originally posted by Scot Yes, and while they are at it they should remove all those other troublesome players and let me get back to playing my solo RPG. The OP needs a new server where he can play on his own, then maybe he will be happy.
Yeah. Great idea. A game with both a SP and a MP mode provides choice, and more ways to enjoy.
In fact, i play STO like a SP game and i have great fun.
TSO - Tiny Soloplayer Online. I hope you do enjoy it, but that's what it is.
I don't really care if they never allow solo raids in a game, as long as the best gear is obtainable in a comparable time period by other, solo friendly means. But for some reason no game I know of allows solo players to have the best gear. Given that, I guess yes, raids should be soloable. And not just by out leveling it and coming back and not just once the gear becomes redundant. Immediately.
Not going to happen though, devs can't get it out of their pointy heads that forcing people into group activities is no longer an acceptable means of keeping players around longer. Maybe because that still works on enough players to make it acceptable. For now.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I'd rather these optional solo raid quests be player vs player driven, e.g., a mission to infiltrate the opposing main city and kill 1 person and escape without dieing.
anyone who soloed a BC raid at level 85+ did not have anywhere near the experience doing the raid at level 70 provided.
On the other hand; I used to play WOW for a short while when I want easy/casual fun when EVE is my main MMO.
Like I said, I sub for 1-2 months till I go back to EVE 'fulltime' and I cannot join a guild as they require me to devote all my free time to their progression and they want me to be in there raiding like 6x/week.
I have a family + a fulltime job + other hobbies too.
Taking that into mind it is fun to -finally- go 1 on 1 vs that epic Onyxia, Blackwing, Naxx, BC bosses, WOTLK, although being lvl 85-90, because otherwise I would never see that content anyway. If this would be made impossible by Blizzard it would be 'too bad, how sad, never mind' because I will never join a wow raid guild.
That is your time and only you decide what you gonna do with your time. You spend it with wife, kids, in job ... that is your choice but we dont care. Why are you telling us, it is excuse or? I dont understand that ...
Sporting events would be so much better if everyone tried to solo the content instead... players fighting over who gets the ball instead of moving it down the court. Yeah... I can see how working in groups is such a big fail... we should have more 1v1 basketball... or football... or soccer... or ... solo is so much better than teamwork.
Look under RPG on Steam, there are a ton of them out there. Why solo players have such a craving for an audience boggles my mind. If you want a following get a twitch account and broadcast while you play.
EverQuest 2 solved this problem already. Whenever they release a new zone, they include a solo version, heroic and a raid version. All of the loot is geared towards the type of play (more people, better loot), but the story is the same for everyone.
Whether you want to experience it alone, in a small group, or in a large group, you have the choice. The story stays the same, but the bosses and mechanics are so much different. They started this a couple expansions ago (right around the Free2Play conversion i think). They even explained that the reason was so that everyone could experience the same story all the way through. It used to be like WoW, where only raiders saw the end of an expansions story, but since raiders are such a tiny part of the playerbase, it didnt seem fair that only they got to see how the story ended.
Im sure WoW will end up copying this soon. They usually dont take too long to copy features from other MMOs.
EverQuest 2 solved this problem already. Whenever they release a new zone, they include a solo version, heroic and a raid version. All of the loot is geared towards the type of play (more people, better loot), but the story is the same for everyone.
Whether you want to experience it alone, in a small group, or in a large group, you have the choice. The story stays the same, but the bosses and mechanics are so much different. They started this a couple expansions ago (right around the Free2Play conversion i think). They even explained that the reason was so that everyone could experience the same story all the way through. It used to be like WoW, where only raiders saw the end of an expansions story, but since raiders are such a tiny part of the playerbase, it didnt seem fair that only they got to see how the story ended.
Im sure WoW will end up copying this soon. They usually dont take too long to copy features from other MMOs.
But aren't we missing the point here? You like chess. So you decide to play WoW and want it to play like chess? MMOs are multiplayer social games, not single player games online. The problem here is that instead of telling players, this isn't chess, they're trying to turn it into chess. It's why MMOs are floundering so much... they are having an identity crisis.
You like doing stuff all by yourself... only have a little free time? Choose a game more akin to what you are looking for. Cry out for more games like that... stop trying to turn other games into something they are not... in the end you don't get the best of both worlds... you a get a cheap knock off of both.
dictionary meaning of the word Raid = surprise attack by troops or a small group.
Solo raid is not a raid. IMO group content should not be able to be done alone. Its group content. Devs need to Develop solo content for soloers and group content for groups. But in mmorpgs focus on group. Single player games focus on solo play. Let mmos focus on multiplayer with some solo stuff. Thats it.
Do not make group content soloable because it affects grouping and kill the purpose of it all together.
Originally posted by Scot Yes, and while they are at it they should remove all those other troublesome players and let me get back to playing my solo RPG. The OP needs a new server where he can play on his own, then maybe he will be happy.
Yeah. Great idea. A game with both a SP and a MP mode provides choice, and more ways to enjoy.
In fact, i play STO like a SP game and i have great fun.
TSO - Tiny Soloplayer Online. I hope you do enjoy it, but that's what it is.
I do enjoy playing STO solo. Otherwise, why would i do it?
Look under RPG on Steam, there are a ton of them out there. Why solo players have such a craving for an audience boggles my mind. If you want a following get a twitch account and broadcast while you play.
It was the gaming companies who reached out to them, with solo play becoming the primary design principle MMOs are built on. Most players who prefer solo rpgs will only stay until they have reached end level, which is one of the reasons MMO populations nose dive after a couple of months.
Look under RPG on Steam, there are a ton of them out there. Why solo players have such a craving for an audience boggles my mind. If you want a following get a twitch account and broadcast while you play.
It was the gaming companies who reached out to them, with solo play becoming the primary design principle MMOs are built on. Most players who prefer solo rpgs will only stay until they have reached end level, which is one of the reasons MMO populations nose dive after a couple of months.
Didn't TOR pop just increases by 1.7M after going F2P? Nose-dive .. may be for p2p games, certainly not f2P ones.
Comments
Vindictus
Solo everything but then the game requires skill and not some equipment check.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
But you don't get games like that. Solo friendly games have ruined grouping for questing. It now makes the game either face roll easy or annoying F'ing around trying to make a group work in a solo designed system.
Most games now are nothing more than a race to end game for ppl who want to group so they can actually do something that requires a group to do. Even mid lvl dungeons are really nothing more than 4-6 solo players soloing a dungeon together to get a quest done. There's no " grouping " going on.Take raids and make it solo friendly too and you've got yourself a solo game.
Raiding is about accomplishing something with other people. If you just gut all that out of there and make it a solo quest you may as well just hand the rewards out when ppl log in....wow does that ever sound like spots in schools now, what a surprise people want it in their games. Here's your medal...now go line up for the race.
Should everyone be able to? No. I dont think even that everyone should be able to hit the level cap.
However what I do think is if you have the skill and dedication, you should be able to do anything in an MMO. Within reason.
My gaming blog
Um ... no ?
Unless you manage to design a system thats so tough to master that true masters may even solo certain raidbosses, while the average player still struggles to kill the same opponents with a regular raid.
That would be a cool game. It would probably be worthwhile to play your class for years, just in order to get better and better at it. But I doubt anyone will ever come up with any such a system.
Certainly not WoW. I heard that in WoW its fashion that green drops from mobs replace the raid gear from previous versions. Talk about a truely awful design. So yeah, WoW obviously is extremely gear heavy and skill can thus no longer matter much in that game.
I can see people soloing raid bosses that are much below their level, though.
Like I said above, Vindictus.
It is easier to solo a 24 man boss because you have complete control over them.
Once you learn the boss pattern you know exactly what buttons to push at the right time. It takes a lot of practice because you die a LOT in the beginning and the instance resets or you spend real money getting rezed but the end product is mastery of your class.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Yeah. Great idea. A game with both a SP and a MP mode provides choice, and more ways to enjoy.
In fact, i play STO like a SP game and i have great fun.
TSO - Tiny Soloplayer Online. I hope you do enjoy it, but that's what it is.
I don't really care if they never allow solo raids in a game, as long as the best gear is obtainable in a comparable time period by other, solo friendly means. But for some reason no game I know of allows solo players to have the best gear. Given that, I guess yes, raids should be soloable. And not just by out leveling it and coming back and not just once the gear becomes redundant. Immediately.
Not going to happen though, devs can't get it out of their pointy heads that forcing people into group activities is no longer an acceptable means of keeping players around longer. Maybe because that still works on enough players to make it acceptable. For now.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
That is your time and only you decide what you gonna do with your time. You spend it with wife, kids, in job ... that is your choice but we dont care. Why are you telling us, it is excuse or? I dont understand that ...
Sporting events would be so much better if everyone tried to solo the content instead... players fighting over who gets the ball instead of moving it down the court. Yeah... I can see how working in groups is such a big fail... we should have more 1v1 basketball... or football... or soccer... or ... solo is so much better than teamwork.
Look under RPG on Steam, there are a ton of them out there. Why solo players have such a craving for an audience boggles my mind. If you want a following get a twitch account and broadcast while you play.
EverQuest 2 solved this problem already. Whenever they release a new zone, they include a solo version, heroic and a raid version. All of the loot is geared towards the type of play (more people, better loot), but the story is the same for everyone.
Whether you want to experience it alone, in a small group, or in a large group, you have the choice. The story stays the same, but the bosses and mechanics are so much different. They started this a couple expansions ago (right around the Free2Play conversion i think). They even explained that the reason was so that everyone could experience the same story all the way through. It used to be like WoW, where only raiders saw the end of an expansions story, but since raiders are such a tiny part of the playerbase, it didnt seem fair that only they got to see how the story ended.
Im sure WoW will end up copying this soon. They usually dont take too long to copy features from other MMOs.
But aren't we missing the point here? You like chess. So you decide to play WoW and want it to play like chess? MMOs are multiplayer social games, not single player games online. The problem here is that instead of telling players, this isn't chess, they're trying to turn it into chess. It's why MMOs are floundering so much... they are having an identity crisis.
You like doing stuff all by yourself... only have a little free time? Choose a game more akin to what you are looking for. Cry out for more games like that... stop trying to turn other games into something they are not... in the end you don't get the best of both worlds... you a get a cheap knock off of both.
dictionary meaning of the word Raid = surprise attack by troops or a small group.
Solo raid is not a raid. IMO group content should not be able to be done alone. Its group content. Devs need to Develop solo content for soloers and group content for groups. But in mmorpgs focus on group. Single player games focus on solo play. Let mmos focus on multiplayer with some solo stuff. Thats it.
Do not make group content soloable because it affects grouping and kill the purpose of it all together.
I do enjoy playing STO solo. Otherwise, why would i do it?
It was the gaming companies who reached out to them, with solo play becoming the primary design principle MMOs are built on. Most players who prefer solo rpgs will only stay until they have reached end level, which is one of the reasons MMO populations nose dive after a couple of months.
Didn't TOR pop just increases by 1.7M after going F2P? Nose-dive .. may be for p2p games, certainly not f2P ones.