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Playstation 4 vs High End PC- Explain to a friend

GrubbsGradyGrubbsGrady brick, NJPosts: 350Member

I am looking for anyone who is willing to take the time and has the technical understanding to help me explain to my friend that a PS4 will not have visuals that have yet to been seen by gamers. He is under the impression that once it comes out it will take PCs some time to catch up to the way games look on the PS4 because there aren't any companies making games that look that nice right now since they can't run them.

I am trying to explain him that PCs are currently ahead of the ways consoles look, so the consoles are more or less just trying to play catch up, but he doesn't believe me. Anyone who can provide some sort of explanation to this would really help me out because I can't take him arguing that PC graphics are behind the times. 

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Comments

  • neonakaneonaka Smithsburg, MDPosts: 777Member

    There really isn't anything to explain to him.

     

    The PS4 is very impressive in specs, and has the power of a high end gaming pc no doubt, BUT no console will every be able to compete with custom built gaming machine if money was no object. 

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Why? He is correct in many ways. Given a rigid set you can optimize much better and squeeze every bit out of hardware that you just cannot do from the developers end for pc. While you yourself can often use many tools to tweak setting and do some self optimization to your own setup the games do not come out of the box at that level, which makes it rather newb unfriendly. While computers are without a doubt more flat out powerful, they do not have the focus and honestly are not directly comparable.
  • mikey21011mikey21011 hillsboro, ORPosts: 2Member

    http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/148974-ps4-hardware-specs-analyzed-a-big-upgrade-but-ultimately-underwhelming

     

    and this guys has a decent spec review of the ps4 vs a mid range/gaming pc build and components around 3 minutes in.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoJ_wQvpu4o

  • GrubbsGradyGrubbsGrady brick, NJPosts: 350Member
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Why? He is correct in many ways. Given a rigid set you can optimize much better and squeeze every bit out of hardware that you just cannot do from the developers end for pc. While you yourself can often use many tools to tweak setting and do some self optimization to your own setup the games do not come out of the box at that level, which makes it rather newb unfriendly. While computers are without a doubt more flat out powerful, they do not have the focus and honestly are not directly comparable.

    The argument isn't discussing anything about usability on any level- it is simply which machine is more capable of producing a better looking game. You are agreeing with him that come release day of PS4 that it is going to take us PC gamers a year or so to be able to catch up and play the same games with equal or greater visual quality?

  • crimzonxskyzcrimzonxskyz Osiderider, CAPosts: 28Member
    console games are developed on pc computers... nuff said
  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by GrubbsGrady

    The argument isn't discussing anything about usability on any level- it is simply which machine is more capable of producing a better looking game. You are agreeing with him that come release day of PS4 that it is going to take us PC gamers a year or so to be able to catch up and play the same games with equal or greater visual quality?

    But it really is.  There is a whole heck of a lot more to what makes a game look "good" than pure horsepower. You cannot just set the rules of the debate to ignore half of it and then declare yourself the winner.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member

    it will look like a game looks on a mid to high pc today.

    e.g. something using a 7870 or 660gtx on an high end i5

    top of the range pcs today will out perform it graphically

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,555Member Uncommon

    the graphics card the PS4 and next-box will use is already outdated by PC standards. PS4 will use a modified version of the Radeon HD 7850 which is like a GTX 580 and they said the same thing for the next-box.  But everything else on the system seems pretty awsome like the 8 core x86 cpu built by AMD and unified 8GB of GDDR5 memory for use by both the CPU and GPU.

    But a big difference is that games developed on consoles are better optimized because of uniformity in hardware.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    I guess you could say that the next-gen consoles will (at launch) run games just as well as a slightly above-average PC. This will be the first time that can be said for consoles ever, afaik.

     

    However, a year or less after the new consoles are launched, the PC will start pulling ahead again, due to the fact that PC components are continually improving.

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member

    Dollar for dollar it will destroy what a PC can do graphically.

    The PS4 will have graphics akin to an above average PC with a decent Video card. To build a PC whuich will give you the same graphics would cost far more- remember also that the games will be made to run on the system and thus perfectly optimized.

    I matched my Xbox morrowind against my PC Morrowind back in the day- The PC did it better , but barely and cost about 5x as much...It is likely to be the same.

    The Ps4 (like the Ps3) will sell for a LOSS and make up on the back end with games- A PC will sell for a profit since they do not monopolize the software.

    -Both will be great. I prefer a PC but also enjoy my Ps3 better for some things. The same will happen with the Ps4 (which I will wait and see if its better than the next Xbox but will be getting one of them)

    EDIT: Your OP is having a Ps4 vs a High End PC. Its unfair.  A $2,000 (or even $1,000 if its built custom) PC is going to outperform the $400 Ps3- BUT its going to cost at LEAST twice as much and play games for half as long- The TOP END PC will not play "top end" PC games in 5-6 years. You will be lucky to play very much. The Ps4 will be playing the Top End PC games because they will be optimized to work on that system.

     

  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAPosts: 4,179Member Uncommon

    COnsoles have the advantage of being closed systems.

    You can take a very basic closed system, optimize a piece of software for it, and make it look very good. Perhaps even better than the same software that must run on a generic general purpose device if they had the same hardware specifications.

    Consoles also run in real-time. They are dedicated to the game, they don't have to respond to IRC/Teamspeak/Torrentz/AIMChat/IExplorer/Botnetz/whatever running in the background.

    So there are some technical advantages to a console, even if you have hardware parity between a console and a PC.

    That being said - the console is static. It can't be upgraded - that's the double edged sword of being a closed system. Sure, you always know exactly what you have available and can learn all the ins and outs and quirks, but you will never get anything more powerful either. PCs are constantly evolving - roughly every 18 months we get a new generation of CPU and GPU, and every 5 years something new in I/O, and it keeps the experience moving forward at a significant pace.

    And there's the software end of things: Many developers have a Console-First mentality. They develop the game for the console first, optimize it and make it look and run well there, then they focus on back-porting it to the PC. It will help having both platforms on a x64 system, but there's still the differences in OSes and APIs and input devices and what not to account for.

    Initially, I expect that the PS4/Xbox720 will probably look a bit better than average PCs. But PCs can go well beyond the typical 1080p resolution

    If we make the jump to 4k Resolution as commonplace though - all bets are off, I don't think the PS4/720 could do 4k nearly as well, and we will probably see something like the current generation of consoles: Sure, they both can do 1080, but most games only run in 720.

    The real question isn't a technical one though: who really cares if one looks a whole lot better than the other - they are going to be closely matched. The real question is which delivers a better gaming experience. Some people really like to play games on the couch on their TV - and consoles are great for that. The additional "media-friendly" features on a console that started arriving in the current generation (media streaming, subscription services such as Amazon/Netflix, digital content delivery, etc) are what are going to make or break the consoles in general.

    It won't necessarily be how well does it game, but rather, how well does it integrate into your life. My ideal console would allow me to stream media (netflix/etc), allowed me watch and manage the DVR from my current satellite service, allowed me to access my local media libraries stored on NAS or shared computers, allowed me to access internet content, had a robust digital gaming network (Sony and Xbox aren't quite there yet, and Nintendo is miles behind, I want something at least as good as Steam), and good connectivity without requiring yet another subscription price. I don't think we can get the DVR quite there yet (although Nintendo is trying something unique), but if anyone can crack that nut, it will be a blockbuster.

    Some consoles can already do some of those things - some better than others, but I can't think of anything that does them all yet, and I'm really tired of having 18 things connected to my home TV, each of them only doing one or two functions.

    All of that said - right now, if I want to play a game, I will get the PC version over any of the consoles.

    I do have one of each of the current generation consoles. They mainly get used for the kid to play Kinect games, and to watch Netflix.

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by Ridelynn

    COnsoles have the advantage of being closed systems.

    You can take a very basic closed system, optimize a piece of software for it, and make it look very good. Perhaps even better than the same software that must run on a generic general purpose device if they had the same hardware specifications.

    Consoles also run in real-time. They are dedicated to the game, they don't have to respond to IRC/Teamspeak/Torrentz/AIMChat/IExplorer/Botnetz/whatever running in the background.

    So there are some technical advantages to a console, even if you have hardware parity between a console and a PC.

    That being said - the console is static. It can't be upgraded - that's the double edged sword of being a closed system. Sure, you always know exactly what you have available and can learn all the ins and outs and quirks, but you will never get anything more powerful either. PCs are constantly evolving - roughly every 18 months we get a new generation of CPU and GPU, and every 5 years something new in I/O, and it keeps the experience moving forward at a significant pace.

    And there's the software end of things: Many developers have a Console-First mentality. They develop the game for the console first, optimize it and make it look and run well there, then they focus on back-porting it to the PC. It will help having both platforms on a x64 system, but there's still the differences in OSes and APIs and input devices and what not to account for.

    Initially, I expect that the PS4/Xbox720 will probably look a bit better than average PCs. But PCs can go well beyond the typical 1080p resolution

    If we make the jump to 4k Resolution as commonplace though - all bets are off, I don't think the PS4/720 could do 4k nearly as well, and we will probably see something like the current generation of consoles: Sure, they both can do 1080, but most games only run in 720.

    The real question isn't a technical one though: who really cares if one looks a whole lot better than the other - they are going to be closely matched. The real question is which delivers a better gaming experience. Some people really like to play games on the couch on their TV - and consoles are great for that. The additional "media-friendly" features on a console that started arriving in the current generation (media streaming, subscription services such as Amazon/Netflix, digital content delivery, etc) are what are going to make or break the consoles in general.

    It won't necessarily be how well does it game, but rather, how well does it integrate into your life. My ideal console would allow me to stream media (netflix/etc), allowed me watch and manage the DVR from my current satellite service, allowed me to access my local media libraries stored on NAS or shared computers, allowed me to access internet content, had a robust digital gaming network (Sony and Xbox aren't quite there yet, and Nintendo is miles behind, I want something at least as good as Steam), and good connectivity without requiring yet another subscription price. I don't think we can get the DVR quite there yet (although Nintendo is trying something unique), but if anyone can crack that nut, it will be a blockbuster.

    Some consoles can already do some of those things - some better than others, but I can't think of anything that does them all yet, and I'm really tired of having 18 things connected to my home TV, each of them only doing one or two functions.

    All of that said - right now, if I want to play a game, I will get the PC version over any of the consoles.

    I do have one of each of the current generation consoles. They mainly get used for the kid to play Kinect games, and to watch Netflix.

    --Very well put.

  • DaranarDaranar Walkersville, MDPosts: 177Member Uncommon

    New consoles are launching with capabilities to run DX11.   PCs have been running that for a while now, hell you don't even need "high-end" for DX11 anymore.   Graphics is not just hardware power.  I say this to mean that you can have a machine that is similar in power but if one is DX11 capable and one is still DX10, the DX11 will clearly win in pretty-ness.   An updated graphics engine wins.  ALSO, more importantly:

     

    One has to remember also a few things from the developers side.   When a major developer designs art for a game like CoD.   They are designing, on a budget, graphics that will return a profit.   Developers of these multi-playform games, design art for the masses.   The masses are console gamers.  So while PC gamers have better hardware, and until the next-gen consoles come out, better graphics engine in DX11, we are not the masses and we don't all have high end PCs so designers are not spending the added time to create wowing visuals that only a high end PC can run.   From a business perspective, just because something can run it, you don't design for the minority.   As we see next-gen systems roll out we will see more impressive games being developed, visuals that yes, we have not seen.  This is not because the superior performance of the consoles over PCs, this is because the superior number of consumers now having more powerful machines.   We will see visuals we have yet to see because, once PS4 rolls out, designers will continue to do what they always have, design for the masses, but now the masses will soon have what was a high-end PC 6 months ago.

     

    Why spend your budget to design amazing visuals, utilizing every ounce of power in a high end PC, when only a small fraction of your consumers will be able to see those pretty effects you added?

     

    In raw power, a custom built PC will always win.  In price per unit of power, console will always win.  But one day the masses will return to the PC!!! /BATTLE_CRY!!

    If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Consoles aren't magic.  They are built with the technology that is available.  That's where the discrepancies arise.  PC's will CONTINUE to be built using current tech, well after the console is released.  PC is custom, whereas console is generic, each with the advantages and disadvantages thereof.
  • DahkohtDahkoht Pelham, ALPosts: 290Member

    A screenshot of a console game that is also on a PC should do it.

    Running one monitor at 2560x1440 (or a triple monitor setup with even higher res ) , AA max'd , still getting 60+fps  makes anything a console can do look like fuzzy blobs.

    Seriously , I can't grasp how people think consoles are even in the ballpark with powerful gaming pc's.

     

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,784Member Uncommon

    Let's start with a simple economics perspective.  The Sony PlayStation 4 is expected to sell for around $425.  It's using an AMD CPU and an AMD GPU together in a single chip.  AMD calls this an APU, and they already sell APUs for desktops, laptops, and tablets.  AMD prefers to refer to projects like the PlayStation 4 chip as a "semi-custom APU".

    Now, if AMD has a CPU and a GPU for the PS4 and they have to fit a $425 budget, don't you think AMD could come up with something at least as good to fit, say, a $1000 budget?  They still have access to the same CPU and GPU architectures, after all; Sony basically licensed the architectures from AMD rather than building their own.

    If you want to talk about hardware, then on the CPU side, the PS4 will have 8 AMD Jaguar cores, probably clocked at or slightly below 2 GHz.  I wouldn't be surprised if they disable a core for reasons of yields, as they did with Cell.  But assuming they don't, the nearest CPU equivalent is a Jaguar-based Opteron that will launch probably around or a little after the time that the PS4 launches and will be almost exactly the same thing.

    If you want to compare it to processors already on the market, then the nearest is perhaps an Opteron 6124 HE, which launched more than three years ago.  Or wait, that's not on the market anymore, as it's probably long since discontinued by now.  If you take an FX-8120, turn off turbo, and greatly reduce the clock speed, you're on the right track.  Or maybe a Core i7-920 (which launched back in 2008) underclocked a little.  If you assume that all programs scale flawlessly to eight cores, then it's perhaps comparable to a modern FX-4300, or an A10-5800K.  The latter is an APU itself, and launched last year.

    On the GPU side, the PlayStation 4 is roughly equivalent to a desktop Radeon HD 7850, which launched more than a year ago.  But don't forget that the PS4 isn't out yet; it will probably launch around the same time as AMD's next generation Volcanic Islands (Radeon HD 9000 series?) video cards, and that's a full node die shrink and probably improved architecture, so it should blow away everything on the market today, with the possible exception of the GeForce GTX Titan that costs about twice as much as the top Radeon HD 9000 series card will cost on launch day.

    One important trick that the PS4 has is 8 GB of GDDR5 memory shared by the CPU and GPU.  While many desktops have more memory than that (e.g., 8 GB for the CPU and 2 GB for the GPU), 8 GB of shared memory means that you can split it between the CPU and GPU however you want.  Want 6 GB of video memory for some ultra high resolution textures?  Have at it.

    A possible edge for the PS4 depends upon how far along AMD's HSA features are.  If the CPU and GPU can readily access the same data without having to pass anything back and forth, that may well enable some cool new features.  I don't know if the PS4 will be able to do that, however.  Current AMD APUs can have the CPU tell the GPU to use some data as video memory rather than having to copy all of the data cross a PCI Express bus, but that's not the same thing as letting the CPU and GPU operate on the same data whenever they feel like it.  AMD will get there eventually, but it's a question of when--and whether the PS4 will be able to do that.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,555Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dahkoht

    A screenshot of a console game that is also on a PC should do it.

    Running one monitor at 2560x1440 (or a triple monitor setup with even higher res ) , AA max'd , still getting 60+fps  makes anything a console can do look like fuzzy blobs.

    Seriously , I can't grasp how people think consoles are even in the ballpark with powerful gaming pc's.

     

    who cares about having powerful gaming pcs when developers dont make games that utilize their true potential other than things like AA and SSAO or DX11 features which all will be available on next gen consoles anyway plus draw distance the same as pc games.  And some of us dont like using multiple monitors because there are big fat black lines between each monitors and that personally kills it for me.

  • olepiolepi Austin, TXPosts: 1,150Member Uncommon

    Quizzical is on track. The "Jaguar" cores are not as fast as the top end, but there are 8 of them. And the graphics are not the absolute best, but they are probably better integrated. You certainly could build a more powerful PC, and many people will, but it will cost a LOT more.

    It is exciting to think of an 8-core, good graphics, 8gb memory, machine for $400!

    ------------
    RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,555Member Uncommon

    here is a working title called deep down coming for PS4...but people cant tell if this is just CGI or in-game graphics

    http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/1bajnx/deep-down--working-title--pop-block--debut-trailer
  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,053Member Uncommon

    Biggest problem with consoles isn't the graphics really, but the controls.

    There's only two games that have native mouse and keyboard-support, e.g. play on a console like on a PC... UT3 and Dust514.

    So yeah, release all console-games with native mouse and keyboard-support and I'll play everything on a console, as it's actually way better to have a closed and unified system for games.
    Consoles are bascially prone to cheats and hacks (wallhacks, aimbots, etc...) and everyone has the same hardware, which levels the playingfield in a way.

    Anyways... consoles have a huge advantage over PCs, and that's the unified hardware. No drivers needed, everything can be coded to the metal. And for that reason a console doesn't need anywhere near the power of a PC to produce the same result.

    The PS4 will be limited to 1080p and the games will look very good in that resolution, just like they look on reasonable gaming-PC currently. So in the end you'll have a $400 console with the graphics of a $1000 PC for the next two years to come. Especially when you think about, that 4k-screens won't be mainstream within the next two or three years, as they're simply too expensive at $5k.

  • PrecusorPrecusor PalmaPosts: 4,733Member Uncommon
    Steam.
  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,053Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Precusor
    Steam.

    Not installing this crap and open a backdoor to to my system.

    Additionally I want to able to play games offline aswell, for when the interwebs are down or not available while on holiday etc.

  • CorehavenCorehaven Colorado Springs, COPosts: 1,538Member

    The PS4 is going to be more powerful than my PC. 

     

    Oh my PC suits me just fine.  I can run everything (that I know off) on it, typically always on max or ultra graphics without any problem. 

     

    Yet the PS4 is going to outdo my PC, and I have no plans to do any more hardware upgrades to my system anytime in the foreseeable future.  I certainly have a mid ranged PC.  Now I could spend a good deal of money upgrading my system, even though so far I've seen no need to do so, or I could just buy a PS4 and enjoy a machine more powerful than my PC of which I spend a good deal of the day on. 

     

    Now the PS4 does not compare to a high end PC, however it should get the job done just fine and dandy.  I've never quite understood how current gen systems even run the games they run with only 500mb or so of ram.  So I suspect they'll work the same kind of magic with these next gen systems and get every last bit of power out of them they can. 

     

    However as usual, the PS4 is going to have a much larger games library than the PC will, and they're going to be a major bump in quality and graphics which I'm excited about.  About half the games available on PC will be console ports.  When you consider that, it suddenly doesn't matter all that much which is better.   The unfortunate aspect of PC gaming, especially if you have a very high end PC is all that good hardware is not really being utilized by the developer nearly as much as it could be.  Not even close because i said a good deal of games are console ports. 

     

    So in the end, besides the wonderful world of modding that benefits PC users, what difference does it really make? 

     

    As for your friend, he likely thinks this way because in the past, he would have been correct.  For instance the last Xbox 360 and PS3 were superior to their PC counterparts at the time they released.  It's always been a game of catch up.  Console releases, and outdoes modern PCs at the time.  Then PCs surpass the consoles during their generation.  Then back and forth again.  However this time it seems the PS4 isn't really trying to compete with the PC, because the gaming market has largely been won over by consoles.  Which is a bit unfortunate, as a next gen console means developers try to get the most out of that console, meaning that the standard across the board is raised to that level, and that means better PC games whether ports or not.  Regardless, I'm excited for the next console generation, for the same reason.  It may not be as much of a boost to all gaming as it could have been, but it'll do. 

  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    Its all a matter of perspective my friend. If you didnt know the pc world existed then the ps4 would be bringing you stuff never seen before. For many many people that is the case.

    Pc gaming is and always will be superior in many ways but there are alot of advantages to having a console. For starters they are much much cheaper. There is zero maintenance which is a huge bonus. Game developer's have a baseline as to what to design for. So when the game launches, bugs are minimized not that there arent any but in the pc world when a game launches its usually all broken to hell and back and when the game launches it was designed specifically for your system very unlike the pc world where one guy plays and a 4 year old laptop and another is playing on an $8000 gas powered liquid cooled megacom hooked up to 5 big screen monitors.

    Just some things to consider. Good luck my friends
  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon
    Er....you can't do your homework on a PS4?
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