To me...the fact that it forced exploration and didn't hold your hand to the max level. If you didn't know what you were doing you'd get you and your entire group killed.
Modern MMOs do not really have those consequences anymore...they're essentially all on "easy" mode to appease the kids of today.
To me...the fact that it forced exploration and didn't hold your hand to the max level. If you didn't know what you were doing you'd get you and your entire group killed.
Modern MMOs do not really have those consequences anymore...they're essentially all on "easy" mode to appease the kids of today.
totally agree, i love it. EQ will never get old, ive been playing it since before Kunark and ill tell you its still got some kick in it lol
In EQ - classes were not restricted to tank, healer, dps
EQ had utility classes like Enchanters and Bards
whos primary role was utility - not dps (buffing / debuffing / crowd control)
I also liked EQs group size of 6 (in WOW its 5)
a restriction that EQ had (that i liked)
you could only load 8 active skills at once
you could swap them anytime if you sat down
there were no maps to rely upon (altho those were added later w the LOY expansion)
With AA's they added a line that lets you have up to 2? more gem spell slots. the AA's are a little out of hand but i don't think they have changed the game drastically.
One thing I really liked was how the same armor looked different depending on what race you played. I am not sure if it is still like this, but i recall having my DE wear some plate armor and it looked racially different. When my human wore the same type of armor it looked different than what the DE had.
Just wondering what did EQ do right that you feel is missing from modern MMO's?
Play Vanguard and you will get as close a feel of EQ as possible.
Open dungeons up until LDON
Wide range of classes, utility classes like Bards, Psionicist( vanguards enchanter) imo.
Massive world
Group PVE
Many races EQ 16- Vanguard 19
Classes EQ 16 Vanguard 15
Then you have things like dropping items which devs seem to think is to hard to do these days. Take TESO saying their will not be any pick pocketing, tell that to an EQ rogue.
Seems to me that certain feature you found in the old mmo's are not found in today's MMO's, they have gone backwards.
Take levitation, EQ had it and so does Vanguard but how many mmo's have it today, i'm not talking about flying like you get in DC Heroes.
Then you look at things like seeing in the dark and some of the skills EQ had like all the buffs, vanguard is a buffers game as well.
I liked the class interdependence. It made grouping a must even outside the dungeons, plus it meant classes outside healers and tanks actually felt like they mattered. Plus it was a hard, hard game at times too hard for most that would quit before lvl 30.
However, we shouldn't look at it through rose tinted glasses. It was a gem of a game for it time, but the corpse runs and the death trains and the crafting was horrible.
A sense of wonder. That's what EQ did for me that no other game has matched.
The world was massive, mysterious, uncharted, and as you stumbled around in it you had one hell of an adventure. Stories from my days in EQ of stuff that happened to me beat any crap Bioware or Funcom or ANet try to write into their games.
However, we shouldn't look at it through rose tinted glasses. It was a gem of a game for it time, but the corpse runs and the death trains and the crafting was horrible.
the corpse runs and deathtrains i have fond memories of -- I think those challenges enhanced the game
but i agree w you -- they were a turn off to many players
For me personally, it was their classes and what the different classes brought to a group. I felt WoW captured this in it's earlier years and the game was fun for me. But as the game started homogenize the classes for the sake of PvP balance, they lost their identities. When I think back to EQ, this makes me realize that I loved that the game didn't destroy their classes for the PvP crowd.
I liked the class interdependence. It made grouping a must even outside the dungeons, plus it meant classes outside healers and tanks actually felt like they mattered. Plus it was a hard, hard game at times too hard for most that would quit before lvl 30.
However, we shouldn't look at it through rose tinted glasses. It was a gem of a game for it time, but the corpse runs and the death trains and the crafting was horrible.
Speak for yourself, relying on other players was a big part of EQ. Trains were fun, you had to watch yourself and crafting was early day crafting but i like it for what it was.
Before POP you needed to catch a lift from a druid or a wizard, you needed other players. How about trading in common lands before Luclin and the bazaar.
A sense of wonder. That's what EQ did for me that no other game has matched.
The world was massive, mysterious, uncharted, and as you stumbled around in it you had one hell of an adventure. Stories from my days in EQ of stuff that happened to me beat any crap Bioware or Funcom or ANet try to write into their games.
I would agree totally with this.
I would also add EQ was a very scarey place. No other MMO to this day scared you like EQ did. You didn't just go rushing into combat in EQ. That got you dead fast.
Loved the class diversity and just the amount of skills you got. EQ was really good at making the class feel unique even if it was just with fluff spells. As another poster mentioned when was the last time you saw a class with levitation or ultravision etc.
On top of that the game wasn't afraid to let the player be powerful. i.e. bards mass kiting, druids/wizards quad kiting, enchanter aoe stun groups. It was a blast. One thing I have noticed in all mmo's since is the diluting of player power! Snares being weak and lasting short durations, buffs being low duration and not being able to cast on others outside your group. Part of the charm of EQ for me was just logging on and buffing folk a bit, or hanging out in newbie zones and helping the lowbies out.
Now its a world of locked encounters, self buffs and gimped abilities
A sense of wonder. That's what EQ did for me that no other game has matched.
The world was massive, mysterious, uncharted, and as you stumbled around in it you had one hell of an adventure. Stories from my days in EQ of stuff that happened to me beat any crap Bioware or Funcom or ANet try to write into their games.
I would agree totally with this.
I would also add EQ was a very scarey place. No other MMO to this day scared you like EQ did. You didn't just go rushing into combat in EQ. That got you dead fast.
It was the same in FFXI, which was pretty much an EQ clone.
I'm not sure why newer MMO's keep implementing group sizes smaller than 6, when that's the perfect size. I'd even say 6-8 would be fantastic. Getting more players into groups instead of waiting for a tank or healer should be a priority.
A loss of actual fear is what's really missing. I recall never going out of town at night without a full group since undead would come out and destroy you. Hell, even with a full group it was rough.
I think some of the best stuff were subtle things like religion and stigmas playing into the game, a friend of mine played an agnostic dark elf who worked hard on his faction and was eventually able to run around most parts of the high elf capital except for the temple ( was the only place they would attack him on sight ). Also languages were a minor part as you could learn the various languages from other players ( not perfectly done but still was neat ).
Skills like swimming and alcohol tolerance had meaning and playing races who didn't have night vision really noticed how difficult it was to get around. There were so many things that EQ did and no other company since has touched and thats a real shame. I guess thats why EQ will always have a soft spot in my heart with me was the attention to the little things they did.
What EQ did right, and what would probably never be done again, because if EQ was released now, rabid fans would whine to no end on their forums and flock to random sites in a vain attempt to shut it down. People would not accept EXP loss on death anymore, most dislike the idea of not being able to teleport to their destination in seconds instead of having to ask a friendly druid or wizard for a port.
Players now a days would not be able to go days or weeks without leveling and only seeing the slightest bit of movement on their exp bar for a night of grouping in assassin/supplier or kings room. Having to stare at a spellbook to regain mana, the list goes on and on. But seriously, what EQ had back then, was what made it great and had a massive amount of depth.
No game released now will have what EQ had, because the instant gratification simply wasn't there. No game will force you to turn up your speakers while afk just in case a Sand Giant or Ulthork wanders by and aggroes you while your peeing or meditating. No game will require you to ask the local noobs to buy supplies for you, because a troll isn't allowed to buy food near Kaladim or Kelethin.
People have lost their ability to sit on a boat while their journey takes them through three zones. Meeting people on the docks, the ship and then grouping up to search out some random dungeon one of them mentioned when the boat finally arrives at the other side. People are in such a rush to the end-game, they forget the rest of the game, and wonder why the journey to end-game was filled with, well...filler.
EQ was a tremendous amount of fun, and there are reasons why they called it Evercrack. You lived inside their breathing world.
Things that EQ did that very few MMOs do right today is create immersion. Immersion is a hard thing to replicate cause sometimes it equates to a higher difficulty rating. Now a days with the insta gratification crowd, you can't get away with making difficult MMOs anymore.
That being said, here are some things that I feel EQ did right
1) Racial abilities that mattered ( Night vision was nice cause if you didn't have a lightstone, you were going to need that infra-red or ultravision to see in the dark and yes, night time in EQ was basically pitch black )
2) Racial language barrier with the option to learn other languages over time when partied with said race.
3) Encumberance which was a direct result to how strong you were. This included coin weight at first too, but that was later removed. Boy, did I ever make fast coin doing bank runs for people farming Ice Giants in Perma Frost.
4) No maps, a compass skill that required a lot of usage just to even get it to work and zones that were not friendly.
5) Class skills that made them fun to play, but not OPed, such as Rangers being able to track NPC's and certain mobs, specifically rare mobs needed for important quests or drops.
6) Day / Night cycle specific mobs, such as wisps and werewolves that only came out at night.
7) EQ was definitely all about exploring and talking to EVERY NPC, not just following yellow " ! " or " ? " around.
8) As someone else stated, true player economy and a true player driven trade system, now known as Auction Houses. East Commons was a blast and buying and selling gear and items took a lot of patience.
9) The class system in EQ was superb and pretty much second to none, even to this day. Nothing like being able to port people to different zones, provide mana regen, corpse retrieval and rezzes for a fee.
10 ) Faction system that made you think, before you started going around killing everything.
I'm sure I could go on and on, but those are the first 10 things that popped into my head.
I think some of the best stuff were subtle things like religion and stigmas playing into the game, a friend of mine played an agnostic dark elf who worked hard on his faction and was eventually able to run around most parts of the high elf capital except for the temple ( was the only place they would attack him on sight ). Also languages were a minor part as you could learn the various languages from other players ( not perfectly done but still was neat ).
Skills like swimming and alcohol tolerance had meaning and playing races who didn't have night vision really noticed how difficult it was to get around. There were so many things that EQ did and no other company since has touched and thats a real shame. I guess thats why EQ will always have a soft spot in my heart with me was the attention to the little things they did.
Spot on mate, come on Smed it's a golden opportunity.
Just wondering what did EQ do right that you feel is missing from modern MMO's?
several classes to choose from. lots of dungeons and places to explore at launch. A world filled with actual players running around in the game, that weren't huddled up in quest hubs and cities waiting to cue up for BGs, arenas, or instanced dungeons. tough death penalties (maybe even too tough). slower leveling. You had to actually travel someplace (unless you were higher level druid or wiz). No themepark guide of where to go, what to do next. For example as a level 15 dwarf cleric in Butcherblock, I could go to unrest, mistmoore, SF moutains, the karanas, befallen, or countless mob camps located all over the game world to level/explore (just to name a FEW examples off the top of my head)....all those choices and Im sure I didn't scratch the surface, just at level 15, you had choices/options/decisions of where/what to do. EQ felt like you could go anywhere in the game world and do anything. I remember sometimes leveling up a few levels and going, "oh no, I forgot to check out Guk (or any other random zone/dungeon/place) while I could still get xp....there were no rails to adventuring/leveling. In short, you felt like you were in a living/breathing fantasy world, filled with real people, lots of places to go, things to do, and choices to be made. you could really leave your home city and set out on an adventure of your choosing.
Not having a map or guide of some kind was definately more exciting lol. Especially in the halfling starting capital where you had two exits from town the safe exit and then the one that leads to the level 40+ area with the skeletons who come charging at you shortly after coming into the zone X.x
A little twisted maybe, but it sure made you pay attention to your surroundings more.
Not having a map or guide of some kind was definately more exciting lol. Especially in the halfling starting capital where you had two exits from town the safe exit and then the one that leads to the level 40+ area with the skeletons who come charging at you shortly after coming into the zone X.x
A little twisted maybe, but it sure made you pay attention to your surroundings more.
I can just imagine it now XD :
Hello, my name is Frodo McAssBlaster and this is Jackass! -runs into +40 zone-
Comments
To me...the fact that it forced exploration and didn't hold your hand to the max level. If you didn't know what you were doing you'd get you and your entire group killed.
Modern MMOs do not really have those consequences anymore...they're essentially all on "easy" mode to appease the kids of today.
EQ also had a richer class interdependence
In EQ - classes were not restricted to tank, healer, dps
EQ had utility classes like Enchanters and Bards
whos primary role was utility - not dps (buffing / debuffing / crowd control)
I also liked EQs group size of 6 (in WOW its 5)
a restriction that EQ had (that i liked)
you could only load 8 active skills at once
you could swap them anytime if you sat down
there were no maps to rely upon (altho those were added later w the LOY expansion)
EQ2 fan sites
totally agree, i love it. EQ will never get old, ive been playing it since before Kunark and ill tell you its still got some kick in it lol
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n64/redline3kgt/amberclose.jpg
With AA's they added a line that lets you have up to 2? more gem spell slots. the AA's are a little out of hand but i don't think they have changed the game drastically.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n64/redline3kgt/amberclose.jpg
The classes
Alternate Advancement
Non linear world design
Rare items that were actually rare
One thing I really liked was how the same armor looked different depending on what race you played. I am not sure if it is still like this, but i recall having my DE wear some plate armor and it looked racially different. When my human wore the same type of armor it looked different than what the DE had.
I really liked this aspect!
Z.
Play Vanguard and you will get as close a feel of EQ as possible.
Open dungeons up until LDON
Wide range of classes, utility classes like Bards, Psionicist( vanguards enchanter) imo.
Massive world
Group PVE
Many races EQ 16- Vanguard 19
Classes EQ 16 Vanguard 15
Then you have things like dropping items which devs seem to think is to hard to do these days. Take TESO saying their will not be any pick pocketing, tell that to an EQ rogue.
Seems to me that certain feature you found in the old mmo's are not found in today's MMO's, they have gone backwards.
Take levitation, EQ had it and so does Vanguard but how many mmo's have it today, i'm not talking about flying like you get in DC Heroes.
Then you look at things like seeing in the dark and some of the skills EQ had like all the buffs, vanguard is a buffers game as well.
The list goes on.
I liked the class interdependence. It made grouping a must even outside the dungeons, plus it meant classes outside healers and tanks actually felt like they mattered. Plus it was a hard, hard game at times too hard for most that would quit before lvl 30.
However, we shouldn't look at it through rose tinted glasses. It was a gem of a game for it time, but the corpse runs and the death trains and the crafting was horrible.
A sense of wonder. That's what EQ did for me that no other game has matched.
The world was massive, mysterious, uncharted, and as you stumbled around in it you had one hell of an adventure. Stories from my days in EQ of stuff that happened to me beat any crap Bioware or Funcom or ANet try to write into their games.
the corpse runs and deathtrains i have fond memories of -- I think those challenges enhanced the game
but i agree w you -- they were a turn off to many players
EQ crafting did suck
EQ2 fan sites
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Speak for yourself, relying on other players was a big part of EQ. Trains were fun, you had to watch yourself and crafting was early day crafting but i like it for what it was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp0LaOdBAtE
Before POP you needed to catch a lift from a druid or a wizard, you needed other players. How about trading in common lands before Luclin and the bazaar.
Karnor's castle was great for trains lol.
I would agree totally with this.
I would also add EQ was a very scarey place. No other MMO to this day scared you like EQ did. You didn't just go rushing into combat in EQ. That got you dead fast.
Loved the class diversity and just the amount of skills you got. EQ was really good at making the class feel unique even if it was just with fluff spells. As another poster mentioned when was the last time you saw a class with levitation or ultravision etc.
On top of that the game wasn't afraid to let the player be powerful. i.e. bards mass kiting, druids/wizards quad kiting, enchanter aoe stun groups. It was a blast. One thing I have noticed in all mmo's since is the diluting of player power! Snares being weak and lasting short durations, buffs being low duration and not being able to cast on others outside your group. Part of the charm of EQ for me was just logging on and buffing folk a bit, or hanging out in newbie zones and helping the lowbies out.
Now its a world of locked encounters, self buffs and gimped abilities
Come on Smed take us home.
It was the same in FFXI, which was pretty much an EQ clone.
I'm not sure why newer MMO's keep implementing group sizes smaller than 6, when that's the perfect size. I'd even say 6-8 would be fantastic. Getting more players into groups instead of waiting for a tank or healer should be a priority.
A loss of actual fear is what's really missing. I recall never going out of town at night without a full group since undead would come out and destroy you. Hell, even with a full group it was rough.
I do now and again.
I want modern graphics but a game with an old eq feel, hopefully EQN can do that especially if we get a hardcore eq type server.
I think some of the best stuff were subtle things like religion and stigmas playing into the game, a friend of mine played an agnostic dark elf who worked hard on his faction and was eventually able to run around most parts of the high elf capital except for the temple ( was the only place they would attack him on sight ). Also languages were a minor part as you could learn the various languages from other players ( not perfectly done but still was neat ).
Skills like swimming and alcohol tolerance had meaning and playing races who didn't have night vision really noticed how difficult it was to get around. There were so many things that EQ did and no other company since has touched and thats a real shame. I guess thats why EQ will always have a soft spot in my heart with me was the attention to the little things they did.
My wife and I were talking about this last night.
What EQ did right, and what would probably never be done again, because if EQ was released now, rabid fans would whine to no end on their forums and flock to random sites in a vain attempt to shut it down. People would not accept EXP loss on death anymore, most dislike the idea of not being able to teleport to their destination in seconds instead of having to ask a friendly druid or wizard for a port.
Players now a days would not be able to go days or weeks without leveling and only seeing the slightest bit of movement on their exp bar for a night of grouping in assassin/supplier or kings room. Having to stare at a spellbook to regain mana, the list goes on and on. But seriously, what EQ had back then, was what made it great and had a massive amount of depth.
No game released now will have what EQ had, because the instant gratification simply wasn't there. No game will force you to turn up your speakers while afk just in case a Sand Giant or Ulthork wanders by and aggroes you while your peeing or meditating. No game will require you to ask the local noobs to buy supplies for you, because a troll isn't allowed to buy food near Kaladim or Kelethin.
People have lost their ability to sit on a boat while their journey takes them through three zones. Meeting people on the docks, the ship and then grouping up to search out some random dungeon one of them mentioned when the boat finally arrives at the other side. People are in such a rush to the end-game, they forget the rest of the game, and wonder why the journey to end-game was filled with, well...filler.
EQ was a tremendous amount of fun, and there are reasons why they called it Evercrack. You lived inside their breathing world.
Hehe, good old sense heading ftw.
Spot on mate, come on Smed it's a golden opportunity.
several classes to choose from. lots of dungeons and places to explore at launch. A world filled with actual players running around in the game, that weren't huddled up in quest hubs and cities waiting to cue up for BGs, arenas, or instanced dungeons. tough death penalties (maybe even too tough). slower leveling. You had to actually travel someplace (unless you were higher level druid or wiz). No themepark guide of where to go, what to do next. For example as a level 15 dwarf cleric in Butcherblock, I could go to unrest, mistmoore, SF moutains, the karanas, befallen, or countless mob camps located all over the game world to level/explore (just to name a FEW examples off the top of my head)....all those choices and Im sure I didn't scratch the surface, just at level 15, you had choices/options/decisions of where/what to do. EQ felt like you could go anywhere in the game world and do anything. I remember sometimes leveling up a few levels and going, "oh no, I forgot to check out Guk (or any other random zone/dungeon/place) while I could still get xp....there were no rails to adventuring/leveling. In short, you felt like you were in a living/breathing fantasy world, filled with real people, lots of places to go, things to do, and choices to be made. you could really leave your home city and set out on an adventure of your choosing.
Not having a map or guide of some kind was definately more exciting lol. Especially in the halfling starting capital where you had two exits from town the safe exit and then the one that leads to the level 40+ area with the skeletons who come charging at you shortly after coming into the zone X.x
A little twisted maybe, but it sure made you pay attention to your surroundings more.
I can just imagine it now XD :
Hello, my name is Frodo McAssBlaster and this is Jackass! -runs into +40 zone-