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Are we old farts a dying breed?

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  • Tuor7Tuor7 Bellevue, WAPosts: 742Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Unfortunately the market as it is happened because of what devs THOUGHT was going to work. It didn't turn out quite the way they thought, though it rarely does, and the market has adjusted as a result. The market has saturated itself to a crawl and the titles on the horizon look to be deeper MMOs away from linear themeparks.

    I agree, the market adjusts to what companies think people want. The longer dev times for MMOs means that the mark is sometimes hard to gauge. Most of what we see in the MMO market is just ad reaction as it is planning. Had it been foreseen that so many companies would create similar games some probably would have designed differently. The broadening of gameplay is happening a little late.

    Better late than never though lol

    I would disagree that where we are today has a lot to do with what Devs thought would work. It has more to do with publishers than devs. These days, most publishers are all about money -- about profit and price per share. The Money-pigs demand ever-more profit, so the publishers look for ways to monetize the games, to draw as much cash off of those who play it as they possibly can. It is *this* attitude which has changed the way MMOs are developed, as the publishers hold the purse-strings, and the money-pigs dictate to the publishers: if the devs want to be able to put food on the table, then they have to obey, even if it means creating games designed to maximize profit.

    At this point, an increasing segment of gamers are starting to see the results of the above and are growing increasingly dissatisfied about it. Publishers try to both imagine a game gamers want to play *and* a game that will maximize revenues, and if those two things conflict, they are going for revenues. They use the AOL method of selling: using marketing to appeal to people who aren't really gamers or are only marginally interested in gaming, and they succeed, since those people are effectively fresh meat. But most people in this segment of the market are *still* not gamers, and so after a while they *move on* to something else, and just like AOL, the publishers run out enough people to bring in and their revenue figures start to flatline or (horrors!) decline. Eventually the marginal gamers flock to something new and bam, the producers start to cut expenses, the game stops getting updated so much, servers start to look barren, servers merge, false hope statements come from the pubs/devs that New Things are on the horizon when the only goal is to keep the money rolling in as long as possible as the company execs start using their golden parachutes before heading off to look for a new company where they can rinse and repeat what they did before.

    What we want has hardly anything to do with any of the above, because to publishers, it's not a game and we're not gamers: It's a product (a widget) and we're consumers. Our relationship with them is based on money, not on any love of games or gaming. If we offer them something that might improve their margins, they may well listen to us, but if it's only about improving the game, forget it. Yes, there are other factors, and I *am* simplifying things a bit, but not too much, IMO, and it's not just MMOs that are being treated this way: it's all throughout the electronic gaming genre. They will only really listen to our wallets, so if you want things to change, that's really the only way it will happen, I think.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Tuor7

    I do agree that it can be just as much about giving us what we want as it is our wallets, they are businesses afterall, but I did kind of lump publishers in with developers. For the most part they are one and the same and have a commonality of having to keep the lights on.

    I get what you mean about caring more for the bottom line and that was a big point I was trying I make. Had WoW not been the runaway success it was it would not have forced the hand of every other developer to create the same type of game. Of course companies don't typically share the details of projects in development so, SUPRISE!!, they each had the same type of game in development! Lol

    That flower has blossomed and now we have a myriad of MMOs that more or less play the same. The good news is that F2P conversion have made them very accessible and have brought new blood into the fold. The better news is that we've finally hit the cap on the "model" and are seeing new products coming that are different. Are they coming because investers/publishers/developers see a new angle to make money? I honestly don't care as long as they make a product I'll enjoy for a decent amount of time.
  • RavensworthRavensworth Elkton, VAPosts: 40Member Uncommon

    To the OP.

    I think games and cultures change to what the market will bear. That said I think there are still games where you can do things that matter. I think one thing that helps some "OLD-TIMERS" like myself is that we started with pen and paper RPG's. I take my time to level up in every game I play. I put myself into the shoes of my character and write background for him and use the game to enhance that. I use the characters I play in MMO's for NPC in my Tabletop group.

    Currently I LOTRO. I LOVE the world design and exploring every single inch of it has been amazing. I have been playing it since Beta and still haven't maxed out a single Character. Being a fan of Dwarven Characters, I have hand mapped every nook and Cranny in Moria. I have finished Mirkwood as well.(BTW those maps are GREAT to use in tabletop.) I don't think it is how much designs have changed for me as it is how many awesome worlds I have to explore. Most people would think I am crazy but my wife and I like this style of play.

     

     

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  • Tuor7Tuor7 Bellevue, WAPosts: 742Member

    Aelious,

    I generally keep publishers and devs separate. Yes, they both have mouths to feed, but one of them exists solely to sell games while the other exists to make them. Devs, at least, are able to view us as gamers rather than people who have money; also, many of them have a genuine desire to make a great game, but are sometimes not given enough latitude to do so. How many Dev studios, for example, has EA bought and then destroyed? So that's why I tend to keep them separate in the way.

    As for WoW: I don't think it forced any hands (except in the way greed can "make" someone do something), I think it attracted the attention of people who were more money-focused than before. Where before, yeah, money was important, you still had a lot of Idea Guys running around with a passionate desire to make the best games they could, and *that* was one of the main (if not *the* main) impetus to creating a game, not profit. In short, WoW made expectations change and brought in a lot of big money guys.

    Maybe the game industry is starting to be viewed more as a "mature" industry and less as a "growth" industry. *If* that should happen, then the need to constantly improve margins will decrease and the idea of sustained revenue will start to become the leading goal of publishers. This would be good for all of us as it might mean games will be made more with the idea of keeping subscribers (or whatever) over the long haul, which means they might actually try to create things we want rather than things that make them the most cash -- a balancing between the game vs profit scale, if you will. That's my hope, but I'm far from sure that it'll happen that way.

  • Shoko_LiedShoko_Lied -, WAPosts: 2,081Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.

    Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.

    And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.

    Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?

    Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.

    Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.

    So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

     

    Age of Wushu fixes all the pains you feel in the first 2 sentences. The crafting systems is pretty legit, ect. I'm just too tired to type more, sorry.

  • c0existc0exist Round Rock, TXPosts: 192Member
    We all find enjoyment in different parts of a game,obviously by reading the many posts on this subject.  I dont really prefer the fast leveling, seems like you get exp just for walking around nowadays.  I remember leveling with multiple parties in final fantasy 11 where you killed mobs for multiple hours just to gain 1/4 of a level, and sometimes an accidental death would happen and wipe away all that exp we just earned.  The point is I found the social forced grouping fun and with a game that difficult it was a privilege to hit max level not a right like it is now.  Nonetheless, there is a need for themepark fast leveling mmo's.  I just think that with all the new games that come out that cater to the casual gamer there needs to be at least ONE game that has the elements that built the mmorpg genre.  But maybe i am asking too much.
  • DaranarDaranar Walkersville, MDPosts: 177Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gravarg

    I had a thread about this several months back (that's where I got my spotlight poster title weee lol), and I said back then that the instant gratification ruins the MMO experience.

     

    If you like the following you might be a MMO player:

    - Going into a forest or mine for hours to gather materials for crafting.

    - Sitting at a workstation for hours turning wood and ore into something you can use.

    - Sitting somewhere crafting for hours on end, just to get 1/4 of a level in a craft.

    - Takes a year or more to get to the level cap.

    - Killing so many "insert monster here" that people make comics and jokes about it...yet still you didn't level up.

    - Grouping up to take on higher level enemies for bonus experience.

    - Grouping up just to survive the trip to the next town.

    - Grouping just for the sake of playing with friends, even if you could do it yourself.

    - Death penalties that actually hurt.  Loss of experience and/or lots of resources...or even your gear.

    - Having to go to a wiki or guide site to print out a map of the game world, because you're lost all the time.

    - Doing nothing but sitting in a bank, pub, house, or some other place just chatting with people.

     

     

    Edit: If you don't like any of those then you're probably an RPG, Shooter, or RTS player that got transplanted into MMOs because someone made a cross genre game like WoW (RTS players),  Planetside (shooters), Neocron (shooters).  I think alot of the current MMO playerbase really aren't MMO players, they're players from other genres...MMOs are the only genre that isn't supposed to be 20-30 minutes and you're done.  It's supposed to be like a second life.

    Very good list!!  Check me off for all of em!   I also would like to note I am 24.  I wasn't sure if this post is about physical age or gaming age.  I am that annoying instant gratification generation (I think) but I started playing EQ in 2001 when I was 12 so I learned to love the "grind" and sitting around chatting and grouping to survive getting to the next town (shout out to many bards!).  I actually loved getting pissed off, logging out of anger, swearing off a game...and then logging back in an hour later once I cooled down to get my corpse and earn back that exp I lost.  *note I said EARN back that exp I lost*

    It is so hard to get lost in a world now, because I feel like I am playing THROUGH the world instead of IN the world.   As someone else said on here, I am really holding out for EQN with high expectations of what drew me to MMOs from the start.

    If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!

  • CallsignVegaCallsignVega Chicago, ILPosts: 235Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.

    Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.

    And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.

    Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?

    Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.

    Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.

    So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

     

    Agree totally. The UO to EQ to Shadowbane to DAoC to EvE 5- year time frame was the golden age. 99% of what we have now is soccer mom/kid trash. 

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wraithone
    Not dying, but badly fragmented.  With the tidal wave of F2P games, the audience has fragmented across so many titles.  Also keep in mind, that with the long development time, that the current cycle seems fixed in place, when its really just one aspect of a phase the industry is going through.  Lets hope that as technology advances, and projects get funded through things like Kickstarter, that we see a better selection of games.

     

    This is where we are now, I am not so sure new tech or kickstarter will be our saviour though. It starts here, with gaming companies noticing that players are not staying long in their MMO's and us telling them why.

    Oh and maybe we do need some country club rules. Like a subscription or at least B2P so we are playing with those who will play for longer than a blink of an eye.

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,087Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CallsignVega
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.

    Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.

    And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.

    Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?

    Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.

    Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.

    So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

     

    Agree totally. The UO to EQ to Shadowbane to DAoC to EvE 5- year time frame was the golden age. 99% of what we have now is soccer mom/kid trash. 

    I don't think the OP would agree with you that the instant gratification game called GW2 which he loves is soccer mom/kid trash.

    It's ironic that this thread is started by a person who has lorded over GW2 for the past year, honestly look at some of his post. He really seems confused because GW2 is as linear and themepark as it comes, everyone wins that's why he mentions GW2 in post, he knows he is going to be called out.

    He claims that GW2 isn't a linear game, so what is it then lol. He claims he is free to do what he wants in GW2 lol, if that's the case then i'm free to do what i want in every themepark linear mmo.

    Perhaps he can explain to us what he means by "i'm free to do what i want in GW2" and why it's different from every other themepark linear mmo.

    He has bought it up in his post so why not explain to us what he means.

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  • xausxaus HullPosts: 34Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.

    Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.

    And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.

    Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?

    Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.

    Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.

    So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

     

    It's something called real world commitments, and the game market is aiming at them. The "old days" as you say are gone.

  • Storm_CloudStorm_Cloud MalmoPosts: 369Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.

    Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.

    And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.

    Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?

    Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.

    Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.

    So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

     

     

    I trust in SOE to revive me into the world of EQnext. An EQ with a difficulty copied from the original, but with amazing graphics.

    Or is it just a dream?

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Storm_Cloud
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.

    Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.

    And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.

    Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?

    Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.

    Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.

    So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

     

     

    I trust in SOE to revive me into the world of EQnext. An EQ with a difficulty copied from the original, but with amazing graphics.

    Or is it just a dream?

    Sadly, think it's just a dream.

    They're first and foremost a company and companies are there to make money, if they can't pitch in the instant-grati scene and 'entitled kids', i want it now not next week (which is the largest portion), they're doing it wrong.

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • worldalphaworldalpha Milton, ONPosts: 403Member
    I prefer to not be called old, or fart for that matter, and I really don't want to think too much about dying either! :)

    Thanks,
    Mike
    Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com

  • Attend4455Attend4455 BirminghamPosts: 161Member

     

    I don't like to be called old or fart either but I can understand where the OP is coming from. I stick to P2P and B2P games now.

     

    I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    I don't think the core elements have been done away. To me the core elements were always- lots of people online at the same time- persistent world (in some way)- Ability to interact with other peopleAll these things are still there, everything else was just something that happened in a particular game.


    You just described the internet. Would you call the internet an MMO?


    Originally posted by Tuor7
    I would disagree that where we are today has a lot to do with what Devs thought would work. It has more to do with publishers than devs. These days, most publishers are all about money -- about profit and price per share. The Money-pigs demand ever-more profit, so the publishers look for ways to monetize the games, to draw as much cash off of those who play it as they possibly can. It is *this* attitude which has changed the way MMOs are developed, as the publishers hold the purse-strings, and the money-pigs dictate to the publishers: if the devs want to be able to put food on the table, then they have to obey, even if it means creating games designed to maximize profit.At this point, an increasing segment of gamers are starting to see the results of the above and are growing increasingly dissatisfied about it. Publishers try to both imagine a game gamers want to play *and* a game that will maximize revenues, and if those two things conflict, they are going for revenues. They use the AOL method of selling: using marketing to appeal to people who aren't really gamers or are only marginally interested in gaming, and they succeed, since those people are effectively fresh meat. But most people in this segment of the market are *still* not gamers, and so after a while they *move on* to something else, and just like AOL, the publishers run out enough people to bring in and their revenue figures start to flatline or (horrors!) decline. Eventually the marginal gamers flock to something new and bam, the producers start to cut expenses, the game stops getting updated so much, servers start to look barren, servers merge, false hope statements come from the pubs/devs that New Things are on the horizon when the only goal is to keep the money rolling in as long as possible as the company execs start using their golden parachutes before heading off to look for a new company where they can rinse and repeat what they did before.What we want has hardly anything to do with any of the above, because to publishers, it's not a game and we're not gamers: It's a product (a widget) and we're consumers. Our relationship with them is based on money, not on any love of games or gaming. If we offer them something that might improve their margins, they may well listen to us, but if it's only about improving the game, forget it. Yes, there are other factors, and I *am* simplifying things a bit, but not too much, IMO, and it's not just MMOs that are being treated this way: it's all throughout the electronic gaming genre. They will only really listen to our wallets, so if you want things to change, that's really the only way it will happen, I think.


    +1. I normally skim through long-winded posts, but yours was a good read, filled with excellent points.



    Originally posted by c0exist
    ...seems like you get exp just for walking around nowadays. I remember leveling with multiple parties in final fantasy 11 where you killed mobs for multiple hours just to gain 1/4 of a level...it was a privilege to hit max level not a right like it is now...with all the new games that come out that cater to the casual gamer there needs to be at least ONE game that has the elements that built the mmorpg genre.

    Yes exactly. I played EQ for a long time before anyone reached max level; when someone did, we were all in awe. This experience is lost in today's gaming.


    Originally posted on page 34 (lots of good stuff)

    Page 34 had tons of good stuff; can't quote it all. :/

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  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    If the internet was a game than yep I would call it an MMO.

    Literally everything else is game specific, not genre.

    Housing - nope EQ didn't have it

    FFAPvp - nope not all early games had it.

    Quests - pretty common, but not needed.

    Avatars - you need some graphical interface but certainly not a creature (eve)

    Combat- nope.  Atitd.

    The only commonalities were online, lots of people online at the same time, persistant world, some ability to interact with others.  Thats it. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    Open world too, if a MMO had come out even as late as WoW that put you on a ribbon of land that connected to small hubs I doubt it would have even been called a MMO back then.

    We don't all agree about what's missing in modern MMO's but we don't need to. If a new MMO came out which had enough old school in its new school skin we would play regardless. Last MMO to do this was Lotro in my eyes, six years is a long wait.

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,087Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scot If a new MMO came out which had enough old school in its new school skin we would play regardless. Last MMO to do this was Lotro in my eyes, six years is a long wait.

    Can you be more specific on why you think the above.

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  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Spiider

    I really don't understand why cant people simply accept that games are now produced for wide masses and not for selected few (hardcore gamers).

    Figurative sacred cows.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by Scot If a new MMO came out which had enough old school in its new school skin we would play regardless. Last MMO to do this was Lotro in my eyes, six years is a long wait.

    Can you be more specific on why you think the above.

     

    There is simply so little choice. Rather like when PS2 came out as a MMOFPS, there was not exactly a horde of cut throat competitors out there. Where as release another easymode tiny MMO this year and you will be adding it to the huge stable of easymode tiny MMO's out there. What if anything new would it have to offer?

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by Scot If a new MMO came out which had enough old school in its new school skin we would play regardless. Last MMO to do this was Lotro in my eyes, six years is a long wait.

    Can you be more specific on why you think the above.

     

    There is simply so little choice. Rather like when PS2 came out as a MMOFPS, there was not exactly a horde of cut throat competitors out there. Where as release another easymode tiny MMO this year and you will be adding it to the huge stable of easymode tiny MMO's out there. What if anything new would it have to offer?

     

    new setttings? new combat mechanics? Example. There are a few Diablo clones like PoE, TL2 and Marvel Heroes, and all have something different to offer.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by Scot If a new MMO came out which had enough old school in its new school skin we would play regardless. Last MMO to do this was Lotro in my eyes, six years is a long wait.

    Can you be more specific on why you think the above.

     

    There is simply so little choice. Rather like when PS2 came out as a MMOFPS, there was not exactly a horde of cut throat competitors out there. Where as release another easymode tiny MMO this year and you will be adding it to the huge stable of easymode tiny MMO's out there. What if anything new would it have to offer?

     

    new setttings? new combat mechanics? Example. There are a few Diablo clones like PoE, TL2 and Marvel Heroes, and all have something different to offer.

    We are talking MMO's here. You and your Diablo! And you questioned me when I said you want everything to be diablo like. We get it, you like Diablo. :)

    Not sure Marvel Heroes can be called a MMO for that matter. But not following it that much to be sure. Even you like a few online games which I would call MMO's so lets stick to them when comparing MMO's.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by Scot If a new MMO came out which had enough old school in its new school skin we would play regardless. Last MMO to do this was Lotro in my eyes, six years is a long wait.

    Can you be more specific on why you think the above.

     

    There is simply so little choice. Rather like when PS2 came out as a MMOFPS, there was not exactly a horde of cut throat competitors out there. Where as release another easymode tiny MMO this year and you will be adding it to the huge stable of easymode tiny MMO's out there. What if anything new would it have to offer?

     

    new setttings? new combat mechanics? Example. There are a few Diablo clones like PoE, TL2 and Marvel Heroes, and all have something different to offer.

    We are talking MMO's here. You and your Diablo! And you questioned me when I said you want everything to be diablo like. We get it, you like Diablo. :)

    Not sure Marvel Heroes can be called a MMO for that matter. But not following it that much to be sure. Even you like a few online games which I would call MMO's so lets stick to them when comparing MMO's.

    How about Defiance? tie-in to tv is new.

    TSW? The setting is new.

    Destiny? "shared world shooter"?

    Lots of new stuff

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    "How about Defiance? tie-in to tv is new.

    TSW? The setting is new.

    Destiny? "shared world shooter"?

    Lots of new stuff"

     

    Ok Defiance is a MMOFPS but yes I agree we have so few of those it is breaking new ground.

    TSW, very different setting and combat quite newish.

    So only 2 in 12 months? I would add SWOTR actually but not GW2. So three. Three MMO's with something different in a year, its actually not been that bad a year, true.

    Now lets go back to when Lotro started six years ago. In that space of time I would only add AoC as trying something different and maybe I am being nostalgic there. I would lump PS2 in with Defiance, I don't think every new MMOFPS gets its own spot.

    So that's four in six years, does not look so good now does it? Others may have there own idea of ground breakers, would be interesting to see what they think.

    Also my original point was more to say you will struggle bringing out a standard MMO as we simply have so many. Unless you can do the normal template really well like GW2, your success will be limited.

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