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My opinion on the Hero Engine

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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,765Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5llG4cyYQg

    That's a video of it if you're curious. They are not spread out at all. And nothing is sacrificed. At least nothing I noticed when I played the game.

    And so you respond with a trailer video that isn't even actual gameplay?  Drawing 1000 characters at once for a trailer when you don't have to render it in real time is pretty easy to do.  What you sacrifice is not being able to render it in real time--i.e., not being able to implement it in real gameplay.

    The game can have 1000vs1000. Otherwise it wouldn't say it could... I mean like what? Really going to sit their and deny it when it freaking lists it as one of it's main features? Sorry that I found a trailer instead of other people playing the game. Jeeze, way to be nitpicky people.

    Did you even read the message that you replied to with that video?  Having a huge battle with 1000 players on each side is pretty trivial to do if they're so spread out that the server only has to tell you about a few other players at a time.  The proper question is not how many players per side on a server, but how many players that are near enough that the game has to keep you updated on what they're doing in real time.  And color me skeptical that that's anywhere remotely near 2000.

  • nakumanakuma New York City, NYPosts: 1,310Member
    I had training in Hero's Engine through Simutronics back at the end of 2009. and other than the collaboration tools, the rest of the engine is total crap specifically with the absolutely outdated rendering engine they use. I eventually in 2012 tried it again the performance was absolutely wretched. Why on earth any development studio worth its guff would even contemplate using such an archaic, outdated Engine is beyond me.

    3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.

  • nakumanakuma New York City, NYPosts: 1,310Member
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by DSWBeef
    The Hero engine 2 years ago sucked. Just look at swtor. Now its a very good engine. Sure its no cryengine or unreal but its not abysmal.

    SWTOR is a VERY bad example of what the HeroEngine can accomplish even 2 years ago. Bioware purchased a license for a unfinished version of the HeroEngine and completely redid the rendering engine and other key parts of the engine. 

    Exactly, given they were only using the base collaboration tools and some of the networking (even then they customized alot of the server/network infrastructure) they also gutted the rendering engine; which pretty nullifies its mentioning as a "very good engine". But I won't deny I loved the collaboration tools for dnyamic teams within the same project, and updating stuff at the same time with ability to update the game dynamically and not worry about compiling nightly builds, the rest is something to be desired at the very least. However, to have to gut the crappy engine, customize the server code and network code kind of detracts away from buying it in the first place if you have to replace so much of the base code. BUt the rendering engine is the worst offender of all including the scripting which was annoying to say the least.

    3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    My opinion is that it's a piece of utter crap and I can't actually believe that when ZeniMax decided to use it for the Elder Scrolls Online that Bethesda didn't tell them to change it. I can't actually even believe that ZeniMax decided to use it in the first place! Is it just because it's cheap? I don't get it but it makes me extremely wary on forming any opinions from articles on ESO.

    You got even that part wrong.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx

     

    You licensed HeroEngine a long time ago. What role did the Hero Engine play in the development of ESO?

    We started ZeniMax Online from scratch, with no employees and no technology. We had to build everything ourselves. It takes a long time to write game engines, especially MMO engines, which are inherently more complicated than typical single-player ones. So, we decided to license the HeroEngine to give us a headstart. It was a useful tool for us to use to prototype areas and game design concepts, and it provided us the ability to get art into the game that was visible, so we could work on the game’s art style. Our plan is for ESO to be a world class MMO, with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date – so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of HeroEngine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development

    As I read the OP to be: "TESO shouldn't use the hero engine because I don't like it", the thread should have stopped here.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by nakuma

    I had training in Hero's Engine through Simutronics back at the end of 2009. and other than the collaboration tools, the rest of the engine is total crap specifically with the absolutely outdated rendering engine they use. I eventually in 2012 tried it again the performance was absolutely wretched. Why on earth any development studio worth its guff would even contemplate using such an archaic, outdated Engine is beyond me.

    Rendering engine is the least important part of the engine...are you sure you have any sufficient developer/coder experience?

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5llG4cyYQg

    That's a video of it if you're curious. They are not spread out at all. And nothing is sacrificed. At least nothing I noticed when I played the game.

    And so you respond with a trailer video that isn't even actual gameplay?  Drawing 1000 characters at once for a trailer when you don't have to render it in real time is pretty easy to do.  What you sacrifice is not being able to render it in real time--i.e., not being able to implement it in real gameplay.

    The game can have 1000vs1000. Otherwise it wouldn't say it could... I mean like what? Really going to sit their and deny it when it freaking lists it as one of it's main features? Sorry that I found a trailer instead of other people playing the game. Jeeze, way to be nitpicky people.

    Did you even read the message that you replied to with that video?  Having a huge battle with 1000 players on each side is pretty trivial to do if they're so spread out that the server only has to tell you about a few other players at a time.  The proper question is not how many players per side on a server, but how many players that are near enough that the game has to keep you updated on what they're doing in real time.  And color me skeptical that that's anywhere remotely near 2000.

    And did you not read what I already stated? It's not spread out. Please don't do the "did you even read.." thing when you yourself failed to read. Thank you.

    Smile

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,765Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5llG4cyYQg

    That's a video of it if you're curious. They are not spread out at all. And nothing is sacrificed. At least nothing I noticed when I played the game.

    And so you respond with a trailer video that isn't even actual gameplay?  Drawing 1000 characters at once for a trailer when you don't have to render it in real time is pretty easy to do.  What you sacrifice is not being able to render it in real time--i.e., not being able to implement it in real gameplay.

    The game can have 1000vs1000. Otherwise it wouldn't say it could... I mean like what? Really going to sit their and deny it when it freaking lists it as one of it's main features? Sorry that I found a trailer instead of other people playing the game. Jeeze, way to be nitpicky people.

    Did you even read the message that you replied to with that video?  Having a huge battle with 1000 players on each side is pretty trivial to do if they're so spread out that the server only has to tell you about a few other players at a time.  The proper question is not how many players per side on a server, but how many players that are near enough that the game has to keep you updated on what they're doing in real time.  And color me skeptical that that's anywhere remotely near 2000.

    And did you not read what I already stated? It's not spread out. Please don't do the "did you even read.." thing when you yourself failed to read. Thank you.

    Well then, let's see a gameplay video that actually shows several hundred players on the screen at once moving around in real time without any obvious compromises.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5llG4cyYQg

    That's a video of it if you're curious. They are not spread out at all. And nothing is sacrificed. At least nothing I noticed when I played the game.

    And so you respond with a trailer video that isn't even actual gameplay?  Drawing 1000 characters at once for a trailer when you don't have to render it in real time is pretty easy to do.  What you sacrifice is not being able to render it in real time--i.e., not being able to implement it in real gameplay.

    The game can have 1000vs1000. Otherwise it wouldn't say it could... I mean like what? Really going to sit their and deny it when it freaking lists it as one of it's main features? Sorry that I found a trailer instead of other people playing the game. Jeeze, way to be nitpicky people.

    Did you even read the message that you replied to with that video?  Having a huge battle with 1000 players on each side is pretty trivial to do if they're so spread out that the server only has to tell you about a few other players at a time.  The proper question is not how many players per side on a server, but how many players that are near enough that the game has to keep you updated on what they're doing in real time.  And color me skeptical that that's anywhere remotely near 2000.

    And did you not read what I already stated? It's not spread out. Please don't do the "did you even read.." thing when you yourself failed to read. Thank you.

    Well then, let's see a gameplay video that actually shows several hundred players on the screen at once moving around in real time without any obvious compromises.

    Go find a video yourself. I'm not your errand boy. I already stated that's a feature it has. A main feature that the game clearly states. You can choose to believe whatever you like though. I'm not going to try to change your mind. 

    Smile

  • DocBrodyDocBrody EldridgePosts: 1,820Member

    The lighting / shading capablities appear to be quite basic.

    Don't know why but all Hero Games have a certain cartoony stylized look. Never seen anything realistic from that engine, there must be a reason for that. I really don't like the stylized plastic look of SWTOR.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,765Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5llG4cyYQg

    That's a video of it if you're curious. They are not spread out at all. And nothing is sacrificed. At least nothing I noticed when I played the game.

    And so you respond with a trailer video that isn't even actual gameplay?  Drawing 1000 characters at once for a trailer when you don't have to render it in real time is pretty easy to do.  What you sacrifice is not being able to render it in real time--i.e., not being able to implement it in real gameplay.

    The game can have 1000vs1000. Otherwise it wouldn't say it could... I mean like what? Really going to sit their and deny it when it freaking lists it as one of it's main features? Sorry that I found a trailer instead of other people playing the game. Jeeze, way to be nitpicky people.

    Did you even read the message that you replied to with that video?  Having a huge battle with 1000 players on each side is pretty trivial to do if they're so spread out that the server only has to tell you about a few other players at a time.  The proper question is not how many players per side on a server, but how many players that are near enough that the game has to keep you updated on what they're doing in real time.  And color me skeptical that that's anywhere remotely near 2000.

    And did you not read what I already stated? It's not spread out. Please don't do the "did you even read.." thing when you yourself failed to read. Thank you.

    Well then, let's see a gameplay video that actually shows several hundred players on the screen at once moving around in real time without any obvious compromises.

    Go find a video yourself. I'm not your errand boy. I already stated that's a feature it has. A main feature that the game clearly states. You can choose to believe whatever you like though. I'm not going to try to change your mind. 

    You're making claims much stronger than the game itself makes.  A 1000 on 1000 battle spread over a large enough area is easy (well, apart from in the sense that MMORPGs are intrinsically hard).  Packed into a small area so that you can see hundreds of other players at once is not, and will require major sacrifices.

    What we fundamentally have here is that you're claiming that something exists and I'm claiming it doesn't.  Saying that you're not going to offer any evidence of your implausible claims by asking me to prove a universal negative (by watching every single video ever made?) basically amounts to conceding that you have no clue what you're talking about.

  • SmikisSmikis VilniusPosts: 1,045Member
    an engine done for failed never released game by company that did nothing good, it puzzles me how such things get sold for money
  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5llG4cyYQg

    That's a video of it if you're curious. They are not spread out at all. And nothing is sacrificed. At least nothing I noticed when I played the game.

    And so you respond with a trailer video that isn't even actual gameplay?  Drawing 1000 characters at once for a trailer when you don't have to render it in real time is pretty easy to do.  What you sacrifice is not being able to render it in real time--i.e., not being able to implement it in real gameplay.

    The game can have 1000vs1000. Otherwise it wouldn't say it could... I mean like what? Really going to sit their and deny it when it freaking lists it as one of it's main features? Sorry that I found a trailer instead of other people playing the game. Jeeze, way to be nitpicky people.

    Did you even read the message that you replied to with that video?  Having a huge battle with 1000 players on each side is pretty trivial to do if they're so spread out that the server only has to tell you about a few other players at a time.  The proper question is not how many players per side on a server, but how many players that are near enough that the game has to keep you updated on what they're doing in real time.  And color me skeptical that that's anywhere remotely near 2000.

    And did you not read what I already stated? It's not spread out. Please don't do the "did you even read.." thing when you yourself failed to read. Thank you.

    Well then, let's see a gameplay video that actually shows several hundred players on the screen at once moving around in real time without any obvious compromises.

    Go find a video yourself. I'm not your errand boy. I already stated that's a feature it has. A main feature that the game clearly states. You can choose to believe whatever you like though. I'm not going to try to change your mind. 

    You're making claims much stronger than the game itself makes.  A 1000 on 1000 battle spread over a large enough area is easy (well, apart from in the sense that MMORPGs are intrinsically hard).  Packed into a small area so that you can see hundreds of other players at once is not, and will require major sacrifices.

    What we fundamentally have here is that you're claiming that something exists and I'm claiming it doesn't.  Saying that you're not going to offer any evidence of your implausible claims by asking me to prove a universal negative (by watching every single video ever made?) basically amounts to conceding that you have no clue what you're talking about.

    I'm starting to feel like a parrot repeating myself. The game states it's a main feature, there are videos out there that show it in action, but I am not going to hunt them down for someone who has to pick apart every little thing I say and try to argue everything. You can believe what you like but I really don't need to prove anything. The game isn't going to lie about a main feature. You have a lot of audacity to even try to claim differently.

    Smile

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,765Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5llG4cyYQg

    That's a video of it if you're curious. They are not spread out at all. And nothing is sacrificed. At least nothing I noticed when I played the game.

    And so you respond with a trailer video that isn't even actual gameplay?  Drawing 1000 characters at once for a trailer when you don't have to render it in real time is pretty easy to do.  What you sacrifice is not being able to render it in real time--i.e., not being able to implement it in real gameplay.

    The game can have 1000vs1000. Otherwise it wouldn't say it could... I mean like what? Really going to sit their and deny it when it freaking lists it as one of it's main features? Sorry that I found a trailer instead of other people playing the game. Jeeze, way to be nitpicky people.

    Did you even read the message that you replied to with that video?  Having a huge battle with 1000 players on each side is pretty trivial to do if they're so spread out that the server only has to tell you about a few other players at a time.  The proper question is not how many players per side on a server, but how many players that are near enough that the game has to keep you updated on what they're doing in real time.  And color me skeptical that that's anywhere remotely near 2000.

    And did you not read what I already stated? It's not spread out. Please don't do the "did you even read.." thing when you yourself failed to read. Thank you.

    Well then, let's see a gameplay video that actually shows several hundred players on the screen at once moving around in real time without any obvious compromises.

    Go find a video yourself. I'm not your errand boy. I already stated that's a feature it has. A main feature that the game clearly states. You can choose to believe whatever you like though. I'm not going to try to change your mind. 

    You're making claims much stronger than the game itself makes.  A 1000 on 1000 battle spread over a large enough area is easy (well, apart from in the sense that MMORPGs are intrinsically hard).  Packed into a small area so that you can see hundreds of other players at once is not, and will require major sacrifices.

    What we fundamentally have here is that you're claiming that something exists and I'm claiming it doesn't.  Saying that you're not going to offer any evidence of your implausible claims by asking me to prove a universal negative (by watching every single video ever made?) basically amounts to conceding that you have no clue what you're talking about.

    I'm starting to feel like a parrot repeating myself. The game states it's a main feature, there are videos out there that show it in action, but I am not going to hunt them down for someone who has to pick apart every little thing I say and try to argue everything. You can believe what you like but I really don't need to prove anything. The game isn't going to lie about a main feature. You have a lot of audacity to even try to claim differently.

    Because you're making implausible claims that the company that made Aika didn't.  They claim to have 1000 on 1000 PVP.  You're claiming that they have 1000 on 1000 PVP in a small area so that the server needs to inform you of what most of those characters are doing at once, and without any obvious sacrifices in the game engine to make that possible.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Razeekster

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5llG4cyYQg

    That's a video of it if you're curious. They are not spread out at all. And nothing is sacrificed. At least nothing I noticed when I played the game.

    And so you respond with a trailer video that isn't even actual gameplay?  Drawing 1000 characters at once for a trailer when you don't have to render it in real time is pretty easy to do.  What you sacrifice is not being able to render it in real time--i.e., not being able to implement it in real gameplay.

    The game can have 1000vs1000. Otherwise it wouldn't say it could... I mean like what? Really going to sit their and deny it when it freaking lists it as one of it's main features? Sorry that I found a trailer instead of other people playing the game. Jeeze, way to be nitpicky people.

    Did you even read the message that you replied to with that video?  Having a huge battle with 1000 players on each side is pretty trivial to do if they're so spread out that the server only has to tell you about a few other players at a time.  The proper question is not how many players per side on a server, but how many players that are near enough that the game has to keep you updated on what they're doing in real time.  And color me skeptical that that's anywhere remotely near 2000.

    And did you not read what I already stated? It's not spread out. Please don't do the "did you even read.." thing when you yourself failed to read. Thank you.

    Well then, let's see a gameplay video that actually shows several hundred players on the screen at once moving around in real time without any obvious compromises.

    Go find a video yourself. I'm not your errand boy. I already stated that's a feature it has. A main feature that the game clearly states. You can choose to believe whatever you like though. I'm not going to try to change your mind. 

    You're making claims much stronger than the game itself makes.  A 1000 on 1000 battle spread over a large enough area is easy (well, apart from in the sense that MMORPGs are intrinsically hard).  Packed into a small area so that you can see hundreds of other players at once is not, and will require major sacrifices.

    What we fundamentally have here is that you're claiming that something exists and I'm claiming it doesn't.  Saying that you're not going to offer any evidence of your implausible claims by asking me to prove a universal negative (by watching every single video ever made?) basically amounts to conceding that you have no clue what you're talking about.

    I'm starting to feel like a parrot repeating myself. The game states it's a main feature, there are videos out there that show it in action, but I am not going to hunt them down for someone who has to pick apart every little thing I say and try to argue everything. You can believe what you like but I really don't need to prove anything. The game isn't going to lie about a main feature. You have a lot of audacity to even try to claim differently.

    Because you're making implausible claims that the company that made Aika didn't.  They claim to have 1000 on 1000 PVP.  You're claiming that they have 1000 on 1000 PVP in a small area so that the server needs to inform you of what most of those characters are doing at once, and without any obvious sacrifices in the game engine to make that possible.

    I didn't ask you why or even ask you a question... Sort of puzzled why you're acting like you're answering a question. Either way I'm done with this pointless argument. This thread wasn't about what game could handle the most players in a small area. 

    Smile

  • DravenDraven lovleand, COPosts: 29Member

    No triple A game has been released on the platform after 10 years. The engine is shit but since ESO is not going to use it for release, who cares? 

     

    ...

    } // thread

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