It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Originally posted by Robokapp Originally posted by Manolios a fail post is a fail post...
the answer is obvious perhaps to anyone who has raided for a while but the question is still worth asking.
solo content is something that a new player who has difficulty finding groups might think he wants, because he has no understanding on server relationships between players that group content leads to.
in the end, MMOs can't provide the solo quality of content that single-player games can...so obviously the MMOs should stick to their forte points: group and large-scale group content.
I love vanilla, I love coke. but vanilla coke is revoltingly bad. similarly, MMOs can't be 'mmo version of single-player games' ... but with single player gameplay. There is no such thing. Ideologically it makes no sense. If the MMO part is an afterthought in an MMO, you're going to have a problem. A big one. At the end of first month. When the storyline is finished.
MMO's can't be single player games? Says who, you? I think you and so many have lost the concept of how MMO's have become over the years. With companies like Blizzard dubbing down their games so that SOLO is possible, you only have them to blame for it. MMO's aren't even defined as playing with anyone, they have always been playing possibly with others. That was never defined as you claim to think so. The only definition the MMO part has is that there are others playing, that's it..
I've played tons of MMO's solo. It is more fun? To me it is. I don't have to listen to kids like you complain or moan about when something goes wrong or because I have a green piece of gear, etc,etc,etc. (And no, I don't play Borecraft, but we all know how gear based that game is and always will be).
As far as the topic goes, raiding has and will always be for more than "one" person. We already know companies tend to make some content more solo friendly eventually, that doesn't mean it takes away from the raiding concept. Kids these days want everything handed to them, it's a wonder why we do not get decent MMO's. Something to ponder while drinking that Vanilla Coke (Humor at it's bland best).
Why not just stop having "formal game designed raids"
Just have content. If it is hard, give the player the ability to organize a raid and take them out, don't have must have xx players to attempt this.
Lord of the Rings online allows all Book 1 raids to be done solo. IMO that breaks down the gaming experience for me. I've played the game twice (rerolled a warden on the new EU server when it became F2P) and just look at the difference:
The Last Refuge (B5C5)
Old-school party required
New Free2Play solo game
Honestly, I think raids are meant to be done in a party so that every player has it's own role. It also allows you to learn how other classes play for the next raid you're on...
AsRock 990FX Extreme3AMD Phenom II 1090T ~3.2GhzGEiL 16Gb DDR3 1600MhzASUS GTX970 3x HD monitor 1920x1080
Originally posted by TheScavenger Originally posted by waynejr2 Originally posted by TheScavenger Originally posted by atticusbc sorta defeats the point of raids doesn't it? i do like what rift did with easier versions of dungeons though. so i suppose it would be nice if more games offered the option to do less difficult, less rewarding version of raids or dungeons, but i'm not sure that it's imperative.
Well, when it is a crucial element of a storyline...it defeats the whole purpose of doing the story line. Not all MMOs I guess would need this, like Vanguard doesn't have any storyline and I don't think Everquest ever did. But, like WoW...the raids are the biggest element to the finale of the story.
However, one is able to do the whole story solo...all the way up to Blizzard's finale.
I'd be okay if the whole storyline forced you to group (or raid), but Blizzard did not design the story that way.
I personally don't care at all about the items or money...I just wanted to see the end of the story.
To the idea of soloing a endgame raid I say hell no. If what you are asking for is a story mode, where all you get is the story but zero other benefits including xp, loot, attunements and achievements, then maybe. As long as it's only story.
Something like what LOTRO did. While I never got into LOTRO...it had story mode dungeons (at least while leveling, never got to endgame). You still got exp, loot...but it was far weaker than what you would get in a group. Find better items out in the world. But, it let you see the actual story and progress the story.
To be honest, I wouldn't care however if there was no xp or loot...if the game has a heavy story element to it (like LOTRO and WoW)...I just want to see the story. Don't care about purples or whatever.
Certainly it is about the xp, loot and such. You dangle out this idea that you want the "story" ::wink wink:: but in the end your true point is made clear. it isn't about the story.
So no solo raid even for story.
btw: I hate bullshit artists.
MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER! What part about that title don't people (both devs and players) understand anymore??
If you want a fancy story and do everything by yourself go play a damn SP RPG...
Just so we are absolutely clear here: NO THEY SHOULDN'T! EVER!
STOOPIDWhen someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.
solo players should keep with SP games !
We got already too many crap in mmo's ; cut scenes,voice acting,companions,solo instancing, personal story but we all have same ,,personal,,story ...
only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW
Originally posted by VengeSunsoarReally which game lets you solo all raids?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by NL-Rikkert Should MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online games let you have the ability to solo raids? MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER! What part about that title don't people (both devs and players) understand anymore?? If you want a fancy story and do everything by yourself go play a damn SP RPG... Just so we are absolutely clear here: NO THEY SHOULDN'T! EVER!
One would think that people would get past the repeatedly debunked talking point of mandatory group functions being the definition (or even necessary) of massively multiplayer.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by NL-Rikkert Should MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online games let you have the ability to solo raids? MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER! What part about that title don't people (both devs and players) understand anymore?? If you want a fancy story and do everything by yourself go play a damn SP RPG... Just so we are absolutely clear here: NO THEY SHOULDN'T! EVER!
SOLO PLAYERS UNITE !!
Originally posted by Robokapp Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by NL-Rikkert Should MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online games let you have the ability to solo raids? MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER! What part about that title don't people (both devs and players) understand anymore?? If you want a fancy story and do everything by yourself go play a damn SP RPG... Just so we are absolutely clear here: NO THEY SHOULDN'T! EVER!
that reminds me... I've been thinking about starting a religion for atheists just so that we'd have something to do Sunday mornings beside golf.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
I feel the question puts the emphasis in a bad place.
Raids are a minigame, one that requires strong teamwork, reflexes and generally higher tolerance for banging one's head against a wall than I have. A "solo version" of a raid is a completely different minigame - it just happens to recycle the assets of the raid.
Any reward that is shared between two minigames puts those minigames into competition with each other. If I'm playing a game with raids and other instances, I enjoy taking a high level character on danger-free rampages through low-level instances because it's a nice colourful loot pinata (even if the gear itself isn't useful to me). At this point, the raids are already obsolete to all but a small minority of nostalgia-driven raiders, so it's no longer competing with their motivations. All the devs need to do is tweak/remove specific mechanics that previously required the simultaneous coordination of multiple players.
The question of lore I've discovered is more a matter of perception than reality. As a solo player, I tend to imagine there are great epic lore reveals in raids that, once I get to see them, turn out to have been much less dramatic than I had built up in my imagination. I tend to imagine that raids were hiding the answers to all my remaining questions, but so far in my travels, they haven't.
Originally posted by TheScavenger I'll talk about WoW for this, since its the longest played MMO I've been a part of and only one I had actual fun with at end game. In WoW, only two classes can solo raid (or did when I played, that being, Death Knights and Paladins)...these two were (when i played) regarded as the best. However, they can only solo old raids that don't matter anymore. It is a fun challenge, but not much else. But when WOTLK came out...I couldn't experience the Lich King for myself. Which was really disappointing after playing the Warcraft 3 and expansion. I had to go on Youtube and watch videos of it, which isn't nearly the same. Why not let one do raids, but get much weaker items than one who would do the same raid in a group? This way, everyone can enjoy the content and not just the very small population that raided in WoW. This would add lots of content in the game for a much larger group of people. This would be true for any MMO that has raiding. The raiders still get their uber items and achievements, soloers get suitable items, but more importantly, get to actually see the story AND the content. Then everyone wins and experiences the whole game.
No, people should not be able to solo raids. Yes, everyone should be able to see the content and be rewarded with weaker items for easier content. Looking For Raid (LFR) was a pretty good idea implemented by Blizzard...
Originally posted by waynejr2 Imagine someone wanting to solo playing football. The idea is just a genius as soloing raids.
um ... *decides that my childhood farm-in-the-middle-of-nowhere stories aren't likely to go over well in this crowd*
The best endgame solo content are the ones not designed to be solo'd. The ones skilled players find a way to solo through perseverance and skill without resorting to hacks or exploits.
I recall many 4-8 hour solo attempts at certain bosses many years ago in FFXI. Those i find fun, while others may see it as a waste of time. If someone wants to spend that much time kiting a boss around while slowly killing it, more power to them. They should never be designed with soloing in mind though. Let the players figure that out.
Originally posted by Alders The best endgame solo content are the ones not designed to be solo'd. The ones skilled players find a way to solo through perseverance and skill without resorting to hacks or exploits.
What about the people who don't meet your definition of skilled. Why would they consider that "best"?
Using WoW as and example as the OP did. I think WoW addressed this issue by adding the Raid Finder.
You can que solo then enter an easy mode version of the raid where you can see the story line and win gear. And while you are playing with 24 other raiders you don't really need to talk to any of them.
The Raid Finder is a middle ground solution. You still have to play with other people to complete the raid but you can enter the raid by yourself and join a random group of people to complete the raid.