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Are we old farts a dying breed?

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  • GnarvGnarv Posts: 34Member

    @Iselin

    I play a bit of RIFT at the moment, met some nice people and find the community decent so far. I dont like excessive grinds, played a bit of LInage 2 and to me design like that is boring and repetative. But MMO's designed in ways that make them fullly accessible to, lets say 9 year olds, just aint fun.  Need big diverse gameworlds that I can feel lost in, risk of not being able to obtain my corpse in a dungeon. I dont personally think that this should result in a permaloss of items, but it should however mean that the dungeon was over, trash respawned. Corpse summonable at gy for X amount of gold for instance. Need forced grouping for some areas, it is fun that there is something beound your own ability roaming, and hard elite mobs scattered around the gameworld in general. Unique armor sets from different continents in the huge gameworld - crafted/dropped. Solid crafting system that takes time to either reach max in or to obtain good patterns. And so forth. 

  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Tjed

    My point is, that some of us want an epic game that takes us the better part of two years to finish, as opposed to games that play like a quick action movie.  Even if it can be slightly painful at times, it's often worth it in the end.  Even in today's world, in everything that you do, work, or play, I find that you get out of it what you put into it.

    That, i found, totally false. Good entertainment is not what YOU put into it, but what the creator put into it.

    I followed quite a few novel series (Honor Harrington from David Weber, Lost Fleet (and the sequal) from jack Campbell, ...). Reading is fun and no work. If it is not, i would not be doing it, just like any other entertainment. If a book is a chore, i am not reading it. I don't read novels to do chores ... i have enough of that in real life. I read them for fun .. an intellectual kind of fun, different from a game, but still fun.

    Oh, IM3 is a good flick, almost as good as the Avenger. And again, it is so much fun because of the tremendous work the film makers have put into it, not because i have the patience to sit through it. Ditto for Lincoln. And Lincoln is fun too, in a different sort of way. But never a chore.

     

     

    Don't get me wrong I love to read and it's usually not a chore, but I read a lot and sometimes it drags a bit, but I press on in order to advance the story and get the payoff.  That to me is putting a little work in.

    You've really never done anything in life that you don't find fun in order to accomplish a goal?  Push yourself physically to get better at a sport?  Running?  Never done a pushup?  Put up with your wife/girlfriend when you're fighting with them in order to scarlet blade later?

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,610Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tjed
    Originally posted by Iselin

     

    People who have a low tolerance for pain in entertainment are not a sub species of less evolved humans nor are they a lesser  type of unsophisticated MMO fan. They're perhaps just those who haven't forgotten that we play for fun.

    We are certainly different and I'm not saying anyone is more or less "evolved"  It's just different ways that we find enjoyment in life.  That's okay in my book.  I'm certainly not trying to tell you or anyone else what to do with your time or what games you should and shouldn't play.  I'm glad that you are having a good time with today's online games.  I really am, we should be at each other's throats because we like different types of games.  I just think sometimes people are actually glad that we don't have a game that we enjoy right now.  That's borderline sadistic and I find it odd. 

    I saw Ironman 3 the other night.  It was a good flick.  It's my way of getting that quick disposable entertainment.  I'll even watch some Saturday morning cartoons with my kids and get that same cheap disposable entertainment.  I also like to read.  I just finished the Malazan Book of the Fallen series, which took me the better part of a year to finish all ten books.  At times it may have even felt like a bit of a chore.  When I closed the tenth book and was finished with the series, it was such an awesome feeling to reflect on the epic story that I had just absorbed.  From your avatar, I would guess that you are a Song of Ice and Fire fan?  The fourth book in that series, Feast for Crows, was a bit of a chore, and even downright painful at times to get through.  It doesn't mean that the series is any less amazing.  I'm sure when I finally (If he ever finishes the damn books) close the last book in that series I'll have a very similar sense of euphoria as I reflect on that epic story. 

    My point is, that some of us want an epic game that takes us the better part of two years to finish, as opposed to games that play like a quick action movie.  Even if it can be slightly painful at times, it's often worth it in the end.  Even in today's world, in everything that you do, work, or play, I find that you get out of it what you put into it.

    Well I'm certainly not into any form of schadenfreude with respect to other gamers. Especially those without a current MMO to call home. Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt.

    What I react to in these threads is the intolerance some show for those who enjoy other things especially when they try to "prove" that their taste is best.

    Ironman... what's not to like? ACDC and oh yeah, some movie too image

    And yeah, sometimes you have to slog through the boring passages in books. George RR Martin, Robert Jordan, heck, even Tolkien, had parts that had to be endured instead of enjoyed. You slog through those because you're hooked and you know it was really good before and expect the same again... but all in all, I wish they'd just edit the crap out :)

    Someone just turned me on to a new writer, Dan Wells who writes mostly teen fiction but can be enjoyed by adults. His style is economical and his stories flow without any filler. In that respect, and only in that respect, he reminds me of two of my favorites of all time: Mark Twain and Kurt Vonnegut. They all have a knack for saying a lot in very few words.

    I admire that and not just in books--I also admire it in computer games. I can't help but see filler as a time waster. I want every second I spend in a game to be enjoyable and have meaning. I truly detest any kind of grinding.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,610Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gnarv

    @Iselin

    I play a bit of RIFT at the moment, met some nice people and find the community decent so far. I dont like excessive grinds, played a bit of LInage 2 and to me design like that is boring and repetative. But MMO's designed in ways that make them fullly accessible to, lets say 9 year olds, just aint fun.  Need big diverse gameworlds that I can feel lost in, risk of not being able to obtain my corpse in a dungeon. I dont personally think that this should result in a permaloss of items, but it should however mean that the dungeon was over, trash respawned. Corpse summonable at gy for X amount of gold for instance. Need forced grouping for some areas, it is fun that there is something beound your own ability roaming, and hard elite mobs scattered around the gameworld in general. Unique armor sets from different continents in the huge gameworld - crafted/dropped. Solid crafting system that takes time to either reach max in or to obtain good patterns. And so forth. 

    Rift was one of my favorite MMOs of the past 5 years. Matter of fact I keep thinking about going back.

    The Chloromancer, a class that heals as a consequence of the damage he deals, is my all time favorite healer in any MMO

  • TorikTorik London, ONPosts: 2,343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tjed

    My point is, that some of us want an epic game that takes us the better part of two years to finish, as opposed to games that play like a quick action movie.  Even if it can be slightly painful at times, it's often worth it in the end.  Even in today's world, in everything that you do, work, or play, I find that you get out of it what you put into it.

    Frankly, I would love play a game like that.  However, if the game tries to implement 'old school' style grinding or other time wasters than that pretty much nullifies the 'epic' moniker. 

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Tjed

    You've really never done anything in life that you don't find fun in order to accomplish a goal?  Push yourself physically to get better at a sport?  Running?  Never done a pushup?  Put up with your wife/girlfriend when you're fighting with them in order to scarlet blade later?

    Work and career, of course. Even fun work, sometimes has chores.

    But entertainment? Nope. (And no, i don't play sports. I detest it. So much un-fun practice to get at a little pvp, i would much rather read).

    Sure i sometimes have to put up with my wife, and she put up with me .. but that is not entertainment. That is real relationship, real life.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Torik
    Originally posted by Tjed

    My point is, that some of us want an epic game that takes us the better part of two years to finish, as opposed to games that play like a quick action movie.  Even if it can be slightly painful at times, it's often worth it in the end.  Even in today's world, in everything that you do, work, or play, I find that you get out of it what you put into it.

    Frankly, I would love play a game like that.  However, if the game tries to implement 'old school' style grinding or other time wasters than that pretty much nullifies the 'epic' moniker. 

    one month, two years .. does not matter to me.

    if the game is fun for two years, fine. If not, count me out. Why do people think longer is better? That is the classical confusion of quantity over quality.

    Do you want to watch 20 hours of Super Friends, rather than 2 hours of The Avenger?

     

  • GnarvGnarv Posts: 34Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Gnarv

    @Iselin

    I play a bit of RIFT at the moment, met some nice people and find the community decent so far. I dont like excessive grinds, played a bit of LInage 2 and to me design like that is boring and repetative. But MMO's designed in ways that make them fullly accessible to, lets say 9 year olds, just aint fun.  Need big diverse gameworlds that I can feel lost in, risk of not being able to obtain my corpse in a dungeon. I dont personally think that this should result in a permaloss of items, but it should however mean that the dungeon was over, trash respawned. Corpse summonable at gy for X amount of gold for instance. Need forced grouping for some areas, it is fun that there is something beound your own ability roaming, and hard elite mobs scattered around the gameworld in general. Unique armor sets from different continents in the huge gameworld - crafted/dropped. Solid crafting system that takes time to either reach max in or to obtain good patterns. And so forth. 

    Rift was one of my favorite MMOs of the past 5 years. Matter of fact I keep thinking about going back.

    The Chloromancer, a class that heals as a consequence of the damage he deals, is my all time favorite healer in any MMO

    Mages in Rift seem pretty special and well thought out, really demanding rotations around which I find fun. Played pyro lock , defile mancer some necro and a tiny bit of chloro last time I played and now, after my return, I play a full lock variant. A few players I met say chloro is still fun so maybe you should give it a go. However there is more grinding now than before I am afraid - Trion has in all likelyhood minimized their crew due to Defiance, which also has resulted in a bit less content being pushed out and, from what I hear, more notority farming. I am not sure it matters thou unless you are a min/maxer. New patch is incomming 'soon' with a brand new area (Dendrome). 

  • SpiiderSpiider BinzPosts: 474Member Uncommon

    I really don't understand why cant people simply accept that games are now produced for wide masses and not for selected few (hardcore gamers). The problem is not in you, the problem is in the games and companies that try make a lot of money. It is an industry after all, no one will put 100m in a game for altruism only.

    Having said this us, old farts or hardcore gamers, call us whatever you like, need to find niche games and enjoy. Its hard but it beats the hell from brainless mass produced crap like WOW for example (God that game sucks donkey hanging parts).

    And you have companies that try to merge the two together. New kid players, mass users of industry and old farts. And every one of those fails. A game is either made for 10 million people or made as a niche game that should appeal selected crowd only. Look at SWTOR for example. Its super ultra developed yet its piece of crap, despite it covering a topic that hardly anyone can fail with (Star Wars have millions of followers hungry for any kind of content regardless of quality). That game is an unhealthy mix between wannabe mass audience and hardcore gaming and it fails on both ends. It should have been either or.

    I'm enjoying my niche games where number of players online barely passes 1000 at peak times.  I remember EVE when 5k people was something special. Looking for more of those and less of wows.

    No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  • tats27tats27 Wilmington, DEPosts: 76Member

    I'm with the group that grew up playing EQ and FFXI and really pine for the days when you HAD to have a group to accomplsih things. I don't mind forced grouping, even if it is a pain in the ass some nights, because at the end of it all you have a real sense of accomplishment. 

     

    I hate playing solo. I have quite two dozen MMOs due to the fact that I could solo my way to max levele. To me, there is no point in playing an MMO if you want to play by yourself. That's what God of War, The WItcher etc. games are for. 

     

    I'm holding out hope for FFXIV that at least the end game is somewhat reminiscent of FFXI!

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by tats27

     

     

    I hate playing solo. I have quite two dozen MMOs due to the fact that I could solo my way to max levele. To me, there is no point in playing an MMO if you want to play by yourself. That's what God of War, The WItcher etc. games are for. 

    Just treat MMO as one of those games. I do and have lots of fun.

  • renstarensta Bat-YamPosts: 275Member Uncommon
    Oh the old times... when levels actually meant something.

    image


    Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
    Reply
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  • alterfenixalterfenix Bielsko-BialaPosts: 343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.

    Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.

    And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.

    Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?

    Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.

    Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.

    So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

     

    You have a point however I still find it funny after years. I remember back those 8-9 years ago having exactly same conversation, just with different ppl. Back then EQ, Lineage, DAoC, UO vets complaining about WoW and EQ2 for being easy mode and promoting instant gratification and stuff like this. Also complains about ppl who just started their first MMORPG (most of them WoW) how much they are idiots that never learn and so on.

    Now it's almost 10 years later and history repeats itself. Not saying that it's you, don't take me wrong. But looking around I find it that so called vets that started with WoW and never seen real stuff are complaining how new games are screwed up because of instant gratification and stuff.

    With that being said I have to say that I don't really see it happening, not atleast anytime soon. Some upcoming titles may be sandboksy, good thing. However sandbox doesn't mean always complexity which is something that 90% of modern titles lack most. With unfortunately GW2 being one of the brightest examples of that problem (+ instant gratification, second thing you complain about).

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Iselin

    I agree with you on many points

    MMOs are just games meant for entertainment

    And

    Fun and enjoyment SHOULD be synonymous. There are some however that think that if something isn't always fun it should be dropped and move along to the next. That's why I think rather of enjoyment because your experience in anything isn't always going to be fun. Even ice cream... eat it too fast and that is not fun :)

    I also read books and by far the most excruciating one was LorR. Should I have put it down as soon as it got hard? No and better off for it.

    I really don't care what other people do but when I hear that someone should just jump around MMOs or maybe thy aren't for them I had to laugh... and respond since it was a backwards premise :)
  • Cor4xCor4x Dallas, TXPosts: 241Member

    I wrote a 4 page (10 point, single spaced) reply, but in essence it boils down to a few things:

    • Game companies are a business, and in respect of that, need to make as much money as possible.
    • F2P and B2P games are easier for people to try. In light of recent games that sucked horribly, a fairly large number of people enjoy games that allow you to try it for free first. F2P is the best gateway to that.
    • Older gamers (myself included) HATE F2P because it encourages a them versus you way (like a casino) in which only the house can win.
    • Games can be made more cheaply now than before, and the older games (like older movies and older music) were made without the "middle group" that tends to mess things up by evening out the score. That makes sense as investors are conservative by nature.
    • Older gamers (like the first group of older gamers) will make small release games that harken to what THEY want to do and release them. Maybe not with AAA graphics, but serviceable.
    • Once a number of older gamers begin to enjoy the game, newer players will flock to the game, making it bigger and therefore attract corporate copies.
    So, to "win" the topic, I'd say:
     
    Let everyone enjoy the new games and either make or encourage other older gamers to make games they like as a smaller release. By doing so, you are practically guaranteeing a larger release.
     
    In the meantime, either play P2P, F2P, or B2P games as you will and note what  you like or not. Play fast or take your time. Spend money or don't. Play PVP games or PVE or a hybrid. If you can't decide, draw up a chart and roll some dice.
     
    Make some friends. Decide what you like to play and then purposely try something different at least once a year for at least a week. In doing that, you will grow.
     
    If you HATE what you're doing, step back for a week and think about it. Then try a different tactic and see if that improves things. Some people (me included) like solving problems even with things I HATE.
     
    If you see a game that you would've liked but a mechanic seriously made the game suck (such as blowing yourself up making a sandwich in old EQ2 crafting), say so.
     
    "I liked the game well enough / it was alright but" (insert problem here) goes a LONG WAY towards understanding.
     
    If you didn't like the game, list those reasons and how, you feel, they could've been made better.
     
    Realize that other people are different. Sometimes those people are oddly different. Embracing differences instead of rejecting them as invalid or insignificant leads to growth. Especially if you try to find some middle ground, even if it is all to yourself. Thinking like someone else is good.
     
    Anyway, everyone have fun. I'm off to Torchlight II. :)
     

    image

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    ...If you don't like what they produce, you should quit gaming and do something else....


    If you don't like what people say here, you should quit posting and do something else. (please)

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by alterfenix
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.

    Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.

    And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.

    Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?

    Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.

    Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.

    So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

     

    You have a point however I still find it funny after years. I remember back those 8-9 years ago having exactly same conversation, just with different ppl. Back then EQ, Lineage, DAoC, UO vets complaining about WoW and EQ2 for being easy mode and promoting instant gratification and stuff like this. Also complains about ppl who just started their first MMORPG (most of them WoW) how much they are idiots that never learn and so on.

    Now it's almost 10 years later and history repeats itself. Not saying that it's you, don't take me wrong. But looking around I find it that so called vets that started with WoW and never seen real stuff are complaining how new games are screwed up because of instant gratification and stuff.

    With that being said I have to say that I don't really see it happening, not atleast anytime soon. Some upcoming titles may be sandboksy, good thing. However sandbox doesn't mean always complexity which is something that 90% of modern titles lack most. With unfortunately GW2 being one of the brightest examples of that problem (+ instant gratification, second thing you complain about).

     

    Games are these days like a movies, you watch it, thinks it good and move on to the next one.

    And I see GW2 as one of the few games that actual tries to make something different, if you hate or love that game that's besides the point, they broke off and tried to do something different and that I feel is a good step in the right direction imo.

     

     

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    Short of the grouping I liked my older MMO days more than recent years.

    Truth be told I haven't opened an MMO in months now, what do I have to look forward to - more free to stay away payment models? I don't even keep up like I used to reading about games because there are so few that suit me.

    There is a smaller and smaller selection of regular old subscription games and it's turning me off to the genre. Their effort to satisfy me is like I'm asking for plus sized clothes in an Ambercrombie but when I started all the stores had plus sized so I'm surprised they don't now and I still want to eat my cake and get plump in those sub games.

    I've been making my own game so I don't have as much to fear as most because I can satisfy myself but I have read around town that I'm not the only one with these thoughts.

    I'm surprised the free to baybays haven't mentioned WOW reported a million subs lost when I visited today, that would make them jump for joy to hold one more thing out to say they are winning.

    I'm replaying all my old games instead and getting a break from this crap, Nox this last month.

  • CoatedCoated Woodside, CAPosts: 339Member Uncommon

    This thread is full of people who have no clue what they want.

    You have one side screaming for the old ways and the other side praising the new releases. In truth, you both have very little grasp on what will create a future in this industry. Right now, the industry is scrimping by with average and it shows. The games to be released and the ones that have been released have been generic crap that simply takes advantage of a community so disoriented that they try every game regardless of its fail.

    We have more generic crap on the way and there is no debate on this. Sure, we will all dip our toes into every generic game released in the next few years. Sure, you may find something somewhat fun to play among the pile of generic waste to be downloaded to your computer. You will try with all your might to associate that first MMORPG experience with the games coming out. You will even convince yourselves that these generic piles of crap are good enough for you. (We call this denial) In the end, you are playing crap. Nothing more, nothing less.

     

    There will be a game so epic, so original, so intuitive, so inventive that it will crash through all boundaries associated with MMORPG's.

    Is it out now? No.

    Is it coming out soon? No.

    We will know when we see it. There will be no questioning its viability on the forums. You will not see posts of hate, because there will be nothing to compare it too to hate against. It will please both instant gratification crowd + hardcore crowd (Yes, that is possible)  It will be a true black swan event. I wait for this day to come and will wait as long as it takes till it arrives.

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arclan

    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    ...If you don't like what they produce, you should quit gaming and do something else....


    If you don't like what people say here, you should quit posting and do something else. (please)

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Canton, OHPosts: 90Member

    Ok, first off....change happens, it's inevitable..we all know this. But, WHY does this mean that the core elements that defined MMORPG's has to be done away with so that they really aren't recognizable as MMORPG's anymore? WHY does it seem such a large portion of players are in a hurry to get to this ridiculous and totally out of place thing known as "end game"? And WHY does it seem so many want to make them the same as every other type of game out there?

    I can relate to a lot of replies from older players here with many stories that stuck with me through the years of exploration, meeting new players through the need for help, or people just being gracious and helpful that I appreciated and like wise returned the favor. I see no reason these players shouldn't long for such a game to surface again...and trust me, one will. Everything comes back around again, like it or not. There seems to be a healthy number of people asking for one.

    Sadly though...as with everything in today's society...money talks. And since these fast paced, reward handing games are all the craze, that is what they will keep making until the profits aren't coming in fast enough anymore to justify it..THAT'S when they will finally find a new way to reach into your wallet...but not until then. Why innovate and make a deep game when people are throwing money at the shallow games that may be fun (Some anyway), but are short and lacking in content that they don't have to put as much effort and resources into and STILL turn over a respectable profit?

    Hell...if I could show you a Pinto and tell you it's a Mercedes and still get the sale because you are willing to throw money at it, why wouldn't I?

    As for those that seem to like these new types of MMO's....that's fine. But tell me WHY you all feel the need to jump on anyone wanting the latter? Or wishing/hoping for the latter? I didn't see anyone say they are owed such a game. Simply it would be nice to see one go back to it's roots.

    Seems awfully selfish considering the sheer amounts of modern (Cookie cutter) types of games available already. And besides...why do most of you care anyway? You don't have to play them either. And..seems you may not be playing any anyway considering the ridiculous post counts some of you have. Can't be doing much playing when you apparently spend most of the day posting here.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    Ok, first off....change happens, it's inevitable..we all know this. But, WHY does this mean that the core elements that defined MMORPG's has to be done away with so that they really aren't recognizable as MMORPG's anymore? WHY does it seem such a large portion of players are in a hurry to get to this ridiculous and totally out of place thing known as "end game"? And WHY does it seem so many want to make them the same as every other type of game out there?

     

    The core elements does NOT have to be done away. But ask the question reversely. Why does it have to remain? Progress is about change. Do you want your new car retain the shape of the model T? Or the core engine technology of the model T?

    The reason why we have changes is because of the market. Devs tried things out, and players respond. What is popular remains.

    So *if* the core elements of the old MMOs are done away, it means they are no longer important (or even counter) to the mission of entertainment products .. to entertain.

    Few consumer buys an entertainment product because of adhering to a core idea. They do it because it is entertaining.

    Personally i care less if today's MMOs is 100% like ones being produced 18 years ago. I care if they are fun to me.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    I don't think the core elements have been done away.  To me the core elements were always

    - lots of people online at the same time

    - persistent world (in some way)

    - Ability to interact with other people

    All these things are still there, everything else was just something that happened in a particular game.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Canton, OHPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    Ok, first off....change happens, it's inevitable..we all know this. But, WHY does this mean that the core elements that defined MMORPG's has to be done away with so that they really aren't recognizable as MMORPG's anymore? WHY does it seem such a large portion of players are in a hurry to get to this ridiculous and totally out of place thing known as "end game"? And WHY does it seem so many want to make them the same as every other type of game out there?

     

    The core elements does NOT have to be done away. But ask the question reversely. Why does it have to remain? Progress is about change. Do you want your new car retain the shape of the model T? Or the core engine technology of the model T?

    The reason why we have changes is because of the market. Devs tried things out, and players respond. What is popular remains.

    So *if* the core elements of the old MMOs are done away, it means they are no longer important (or even counter) to the mission of entertainment products .. to entertain.

    Few consumer buys an entertainment product because of adhering to a core idea. They do it because it is entertaining.

    Personally i care less if today's MMOs is 100% like ones being produced 18 years ago. I care if they are fun to me.

    Well there is your problem. "ME". Not all MMORPG's are made for you. That's why there (use to be anyway) different types that stood out from one another. Different types for different preferences. Again, what you and I consider fun or boring may vary. If I don't like the type you play, I don't spend my money on them nor play them...simple.

    But what I won't do is come on a site like this and tell you why you should or should not see a game with things you find enjoyable...even if it isn't something I do not like.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Unfortunately the market as it is happened because of what devs THOUGHT was going to work. It didn't turn out quite the way they thought, though it rarely does, and the market has adjusted as a result. The market has saturated itself to a crawl and the titles on the horizon look to be deeper MMOs away from linear themeparks.

    I agree, the market adjusts to what companies think people want. The longer dev times for MMOs means that the mark is sometimes hard to gauge. Most of what we see in the MMO market is just ad reaction as it is planning. Had it been foreseen that so many companies would create similar games some probably would have designed differently. The broadening of gameplay is happening a little late.

    Better late than never though lol
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