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World of Warcraft: Down to Eight Million Subscribers

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  • SmikisSmikis VilniusPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    That is still an incredible amount of money,wonder where all that cash goes?What is that like 100 million a month in sub fees?Geesh Blizzard could license a MUCH better game engine and still come away with highway robbery.They could actually hire 3-5 guys to re texture the entire game with better quality textures and still be highway robbery.

    I guess Vivendi takes most of that cash and Activision is also a pie plucker now as well.

    The really odd thing is Vivendi was again trying  to sell their shares in the game division,but nobody wants it,price was way too high.If they bring in 100 mil a month,that is like what over a billion a year?What the heck ,why wouldn't anyone buy Blizzard?

    My guess is they waste a LOT of money.Their games are definitely not cost worthy,NONE of them.Wonder what kind of salaries and bonuses they give themselves.Better yet why would Vivendi want out or do they,maybe just seeing if anyone is dumb enough to give their asking price?

    I am pretty sure every developer out there would call 1 million a success and be throwing parties in the Bahamas.They are stil la long way away from crying poor house.

    gaming is expensive so are programmers and developers, you should look into starting salaries for those in US, and average ones, i imagine most get between 80-120k a year, and seniors get probably 500k+ directors gets millions, year or two ago there was actually Kotics payslip or some sort of thing for everyone to see, pretty sure he had like 10+ mln in a year, bonuses being 80% of it , then there is all expensive hardware and servers, considering that out of those 8.3mln at best 5 mln are west, and rest east and those pay about 5$ instead of 15$

    and when you sum all those and humongous team they have it aint all that much, they wouldnt licence a new engine, they would create one

    pretty much all best rts engines were created by blizzard, best mmorpg engine at  its time created by blizzard, for all we know titans engine is incredible

     

    anyway people overestimate how much gaming companies actually make, considering how many close down, or how many companies losing money after huge game sells, because with 4 + mln sales they wont make even for a game , square enix anyone? http://www.shacknews.com/article/78394/square-enix-restructuring-as-huge-losses-forecast

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common

    I actually think Blizzard could get people back.  The east is probably a lost cause but those lost western subs are ripe for the taking.

     

    Here is what i would do if I were in charge of WoW:

     

    1.  Next expansion:  No level cap increase

    2.  Alternate advancement type character progression.  i dont think an EQ type system would work (basically unlimited progression), but take that exp it would take to get from 90-95, triple it, and spread it over 100 or so AA points.

    3. AA points basically a version of the old trees.  50 point class tree, 50 point spec tree.  The point is to give people the feel (even if its an illusion like it was in wotlk) of building their character.  let people theory craft.  even if there are 'best' builds, so what?  there always are best builds no matter how much you try to (over) balance it

    For instance:  warrior tree: Increase rage generated by heroic shout by 1 (10 ranks, 1 AA each)

    allow a second level 90 talent selection talent (1 Rank, 20 AA)

    Protection warrior: Decrease damage taken by incoming physical attacks (.02% per rank, 10 ranks, 1 AA per rank)

    Aggravating Insult (aka U mad bro?):  Your taunt skill causes the target to be come so upset with you it lowers its defense (.02% damage taken by target while under taunt debuff, 1 AA, 10 Ranks)

     

    obviously tweak the numbers a little, but given enough choices i think this would go over well.

     

    4.  Shared Bank slots.  Player Housing.

     

    5. 'Challenge mode' dungeons tuned to a similar difficulty of Magister's terrace (can keep the timed run dungeons as speed dungeons or something).  Keep heroic the somewhat easy standard as it is so people dont bitch, but bring back challenge.

    6.  burning Legion themed

  • spirus7spirus7 athensPosts: 142Member
    8m x 12$ = hm ok .. 
  • SukiyakiSukiyaki GreenwichPosts: 1,398Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Manolios

    of the 8.3 million i would say that about 5-6 are US and EU and my server (Burning Legion - EU) is almost all day high.

    5 years ago, when WOW had better numbers of 10 million

    the US/EU portion was 4.5m

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2008/01/22/world-of-warcraft-hits-10-million-subscribers/

    Asia is the biggest market at the moment, with more than 5.5 million players, as compared to North America's 2.5 million and 2 million subscribers in Europe.

     

    doubt out of 8.3m WOW  has 5-6m for US/EU


    Not that impossible to estimate an upper limit from available official data. Nadia just named the best available point to start from.

    4.5 million Western WoW player contributed 90% of their earnings. At the time up and down 275M $ per quarter from online subs. Inclusive of WoW box sales. Facts not to be argued. Turn that around and 275M earned equates to 4.5M.
     

    Now Blizzard earned 228M from "online subs".  (before Mist below 200M, not an exception anymore).  New cashshop sales and now other CoD subs added to that since then. Proportionally Western subs part should be about or below 3.7 Million, but even lower because it assumes zero Eastern accounts, which is clearly not the case. 3-3.2 Million seems to make more sense to me. Unless Western player suddenly pay much less for WoW and everyone missed out on it.

    Not as far ahead as some fans tend to portray it, when sneering over 1 or 2 million Western player achievements of other games. Because somehow WoW is the only MMO where Chinese gamer are "humans too" (unless they can be used as scapegoat for sub losses) and valid "subscriber", while several million other Asian, mostly Chinese, MMO "subscriber" by Blizzards own definition tend to be entirely ignored by them.

  • theniffrigtheniffrig DublinPosts: 351Member
    Not surprised. If you follow the blue dev posts/tweets for this game over the last few months you'd really get the impression that the devs of the game are out of touch with the players. When something is wrong they either say it isn't or simply ignore the problem. They come off as arrogant & like a nanny-state to communicating with the playerbase. Well, the facts are in now that their approach isn't working!
  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by itchmon
    Here comes titan....

    I hope it doesn't get too rushed, I wonder if bliz will do what they've never done and release something early because of financial pressure.

    Early? How many years have it been rumoured to be in development? Feels like ages.

    But WoW was a fluke, freak incident. I doubt Blizzard will be able to repeat that success.

  • InsaneDalekInsaneDalek Detroit, MIPosts: 119Member

    Oh man, only 8 million! I guess the bigwigs will have to settle for 1 gold-plated Rolls Royce this year instead of 2. Sucks to be them. image

    It's a sad day indeed when a family is too afraid of reprisals to publicly thank somebody for saving their lives.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by strangiato2112 but why dont they just merge?  Makes no sense.

     

     

    Merging is bad press, that if anything gets the doomsayers on the move, so they will avoid merging for as long as possible and try to come up with other solutions to hide the unhealthy state of many servers.

    They dont have to worry about the bad press, its very easy to say 'hey, weve lost 20% of our subs over the last 3 years, of course merges are needed".  Plus, the majority of the low pop servers were low pop 5 years ago.  And i think all the low pop servers are PvP servers.  Doesnt mean they cant merge the medium pop PvE ones though

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by spirus7
    8m x 12$ = hm ok .. 

    Seeing as, atleast,  half of those 8 million are in the East, we are more looking at 3m x 12plus a lot less, per month, from the East. They charge per hour there and no one knows exactly how many hours, per average, they play WoW.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    And here I was, thinking about re-subbing next week. I guess I won't now that the sky has fallen.image

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Sukiyaki
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Manolios

    of the 8.3 million i would say that about 5-6 are US and EU and my server (Burning Legion - EU) is almost all day high.

    5 years ago, when WOW had better numbers of 10 million

    the US/EU portion was 4.5m

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2008/01/22/world-of-warcraft-hits-10-million-subscribers/

    Asia is the biggest market at the moment, with more than 5.5 million players, as compared to North America's 2.5 million and 2 million subscribers in Europe.

     

    doubt out of 8.3m WOW  has 5-6m for US/EU


    Not that impossible to estimate an upper limit from available official data. Nadia just named the best available point to start from.

    4.5 million Western WoW player contributed 90% of their earnings. At the time up and down 275M $ per quarter from online subs. Inclusive of WoW box sales. Facts not to be argued. Turn that around and 300M earned equates to 4.5M.
     

    Now Blizzard earned 228M from "online subs".  (before Mist below 200M, not an exception anymore).  New cashshop sales and now other CoD subs added to that since then. Proportionally Western subs part should be about or below 3.7 Million, but even lower because it assumes zero Eastern accounts, which is clearly not the case. 3-3.2 Million seems to make more sense to me. Unless Western player suddenly pay much less for WoW and everyone missed out on it.

    Not as far ahead as some fans tend to portray it, when sneering over 1 or 2 million Western player achievements of other games. Because somehow WoW is the only MMO where Chinese gamer are "humans too" (unless they can be used as scapegoat for sub losses) and valid "subscriber", while several million other Asian, mostly Chinese, MMO "subscriber" by Blizzards own definition tend to be entirely ignored by them.

    Call of duty has subs?

    Blizzard had cash shop at time of the 4.5 million, so comparing that 275 mill to the 228 mil could be fair, which comes out to 3.74 mil western subs

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by spirus7
    8m x 12$ = hm ok .. 

    Seeing as, atleast,  half of those 8 million are in the East, we are more looking at 3m x 12plus a lot less, per month, from the East. They charge per hour there and no one knows exactly how many hours, per average, they play WoW.

    My understanding is Blizzard doesnt get the direct revenue anyway.  I dont think they are really that concerned since the bulk of the money comes from the west.

    Reading between the lines though they are clearly disappointed with the western sub drop.  Which is the best thing possible for WoW players.

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon

    I often wonder if the user base on this site knows just how many a million is... Now, multiply that by eight...

     

    image

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member
    Originally posted by theniffrig
    Not surprised. If you follow the blue dev posts/tweets for this game over the last few months you'd really get the impression that the devs of the game are out of touch with the players. When something is wrong they either say it isn't or simply ignore the problem. They come off as arrogant & like a nanny-state to communicating with the playerbase. Well, the facts are in now that their approach isn't working!

    If they do most of what the players suggest things would be worse off.. And yea some of what a few players suggest would be ok and best but remember the problem lies in do you take what "X" is saying and expect the broader populace to accept the change?  Also remember said change might not happen right away but might be released in another expansion.. 

     

    I am honestly surprise they have this much still playing {i still play also}, with the gating of dailies etc. But i do get why the east is loosing sub faster because the east have finally released some quality f2p games.  In the West quality MMO are hard to come by f2p or not.

  • casual187casual187 omaha, NEPosts: 32Member
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Sukiyaki
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Manolios

    of the 8.3 million i would say that about 5-6 are US and EU and my server (Burning Legion - EU) is almost all day high.

    5 years ago, when WOW had better numbers of 10 million

    the US/EU portion was 4.5m

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2008/01/22/world-of-warcraft-hits-10-million-subscribers/

    Asia is the biggest market at the moment, with more than 5.5 million players, as compared to North America's 2.5 million and 2 million subscribers in Europe.

     

    doubt out of 8.3m WOW  has 5-6m for US/EU


    Not that impossible to estimate an upper limit from available official data. Nadia just named the best available point to start from.

    4.5 million Western WoW player contributed 90% of their earnings. At the time up and down 275M $ per quarter from online subs. Inclusive of WoW box sales. Facts not to be argued. Turn that around and 300M earned equates to 4.5M.
     

    Now Blizzard earned 228M from "online subs".  (before Mist below 200M, not an exception anymore).  New cashshop sales and now other CoD subs added to that since then. Proportionally Western subs part should be about or below 3.7 Million, but even lower because it assumes zero Eastern accounts, which is clearly not the case. 3-3.2 Million seems to make more sense to me. Unless Western player suddenly pay much less for WoW and everyone missed out on it.

    Not as far ahead as some fans tend to portray it, when sneering over 1 or 2 million Western player achievements of other games. Because somehow WoW is the only MMO where Chinese gamer are "humans too" (unless they can be used as scapegoat for sub losses) and valid "subscriber", while several million other Asian, mostly Chinese, MMO "subscriber" by Blizzards own definition tend to be entirely ignored by them.

    Call of duty has subs?

    Blizzard had cash shop at time of the 4.5 million, so comparing that 275 mill to the 228 mil could be fair, which comes out to 3.74 mil western subs

    Kind of, they had the elite sub that gave extra stats and clan support. but they went FTP. image

  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member
    Originally posted by Slampig

    I often wonder if the user base on this site knows just how many a million is... Now, multiply that by eight...

     

    image

     

    LOL i guess they don't.. and after you multiply it by 8, multiply it again by 12...  Those other F2p games in the west should be happy WoW isn't loosing fast enough for blizz to make it totally F2P, because blizz will cut into there market again..

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon
    People make me laugh when they think WoW is going to die anytime soon...it's still the number one played MMO by far...I'm pretty sure, any developer would trade WoW for thier subscription numbers in a heartbeat.
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by UnrealRpg
    How many of the 8million are real players? Not bots or gold farmers.

    50.

    48 GMs and two newbies who just bought it. One in EU and one in US.

    image

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    People make me laugh when they think WoW is going to die anytime soon...it's still the number one played MMO by far...I'm pretty sure, any developer would trade WoW for thier subscription numbers in a heartbeat.

    Only WoW will kill Wow. Blizzard might decide that below 7 million subs is a shame and pull a plug /grin

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • Tyvolus4Tyvolus4 lincoln, NEPosts: 175Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Manolios
    8.000.000 hmmm i guess they may have to cut food...after 10 years, this number is beyond their wildest dreams and they will not produce any new mmo game (e.g. titan) before wow drops at least to 1-2m subs. so 8m subs after 10 years, unfortunately for who ever waits a new mmo from blizz, is still a huge number

     for an investor this is important news and can be reason for some serious concern.  for a CEO of any company, losing customers is a problem.  for people like you, its just a chance to make silly comments.

  • Tyvolus4Tyvolus4 lincoln, NEPosts: 175Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Slampig

    I often wonder if the user base on this site knows just how many a million is... Now, multiply that by eight...

     

    image

     

     since you seem to know how much a million is, maybe you can pause a moment or two and let it sink in how significant these losses to their customer base really is.

  • Elevenb4Elevenb4 CajamarcaPosts: 282Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tyvolus4
    Originally posted by Slampig

    I often wonder if the user base on this site knows just how many a million is... Now, multiply that by eight...

     

    image

     

     since you seem to know how much a million is, maybe you can pause a moment or two and let it sink in how significant these losses to their customer base really is.

    LOL, Touche, nice one.

    -Unconstitutional laws aren't laws.-

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xstatic912
    Originally posted by Slampig

    I often wonder if the user base on this site knows just how many a million is... Now, multiply that by eight...

     

    image

     

    LOL i guess they don't.. and after you multiply it by 8, multiply it again by 12...  Those other F2p games in the west should be happy WoW isn't loosing fast enough for blizz to make it totally F2P, because blizz will cut into there market again..

    I don't think WoW would win over everyone if it was F2P, as a matter of fact, I would bet that it would lose active players faster. I think a lot of WoW players don't try new games because they are already spending their available time trying to justify (or maximize the value for) their existing subscription. F2P might very well allow people the chance to move on. 

    Don't think I'm bashing WoW by saying that either (I've been known to bash WoW, but I'm not by saying this)

    When I was playing other subscription games I needed to push myself to a point of closure so that I could feel justified in starting up a new game. I didn't want to pay for multiple subscriptions because I knew that I would only ever play 1 mmo at a time. I don't have a problem with having multiple F2P titles installed however. 

    A person might argue that I could be wrong, and I'm not saying that my perspective is definately what would happen, just that it's a possibility.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • akiira69akiira69 San Diego, CAPosts: 590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by akiira69
    Originally posted by itchmon
    Here comes titan....

    I hope it doesn't get too rushed, I wonder if bliz will do what they've never done and release something early because of financial pressure.

    Project Titan is a myth started by players using Screenshots from Tabula Rasa. Blizzard has already stated what their next project is and that is Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft. So please ditch any idea you had of Project Titan being the next project.

    this is where the 'myth' comes from

    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/11/30/is-this-blizzard-s-release-schedule-for-the-next-four-years.aspx

     

    The conference call has confirmed a) Blizzard has a new MMO in the works and

    b) it wont be out in 2013.

     

    Even if that chart was false, there still is 'a' project titan, even if it isnt 'the' project titan

    PAX East 2013

    http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/blizzard-pax-east-announcement-its-not-titan/

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/122391-Blizzard-Will-Unveil-a-Completely-New-Game-at-PAX-East

    Direct Quote from First paragraph:

    "We've been working on a little something, different from our other games, and we're pleased to invite you to be the first to see it. It's not a sequel, expansion, or that rumored next-gen MMO, but it's something we're excited for you to get your hands on," Blizzard said in an invitation to come and see something new and exciting at this year's PAX East in Boston, which will take place between March 22 and 24.

    "Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"

  • Punk999Punk999 Baytown, TXPosts: 874Member Uncommon
    As a game ages less people play it's just the way it is.

    "Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
    ^MMORPG.com

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