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No down levelling?? SERIOUSLY??

13

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  • spikers14spikers14 las vegas, NVPosts: 362Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    what's the downside making it optional like eq2 or Rift?

    Agreed, one of my personal gripes is games where I can't group with friends if we are a few levels apart and when new friends join a game i have been playing for years i have to roll a new character just to group with them. It got so bad in DAoC that as I had an account of level 50s I had to delete a maxed character or buy another account...

    Multiplayer games need to give this as an option these days, if not down level, then level matching. Either way works.

    agree

    EQ2 had down leveling (mentoring) for the last 8 years since 2005

    http://www.warcry.com/news/view/43160

     

    wish more mmos offered this optional feature

    I tend to agree, and there's no real excuse for it's absence in Neverwinter. In PvP, you are "up-leveled". Why not the opposite approach for dungeons?

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,469Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Leiloni
    Most games don't downlevel you, I don't know why you'd expect this one to. The only game I've ever heard of that did that was GW2 but downleveling was touted as one of their big cool "features" of the game that made it different from every other MMO.

    yea think gw2 spoiled some people in this regard.. although i really think its a MUST HAVE feature(or at least an optional version like Rift and couple other themeparks) in a themepark game now though.. 

     If all games started doing this like gw2, that would be the thing that ends my mmorpg hobby.

    I agree with you. I hated it in Obliivion and it is one of the things that I didn't care for in GW2. I think it removes that sense of progression as your toon never feels like it is getting stronger. 

     

    what's the downside making it optional like eq2 or Rift?

     I loved coh'ssidekicking and mentoring.  I hated GW2's downleveling.  There is a difference between the two.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,469Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad

    I agree with you. I hated it in Obliivion and it is one of the things that I didn't care for in GW2. I think it removes that sense of progression as your toon never feels like it is getting stronger. 

    what's the downside making it optional like eq2 or Rift?

    agree - or  City of Heroes sidekicking

     What is the difference between forced and optional??????

     

  • MargraveMargrave Knoxville, TNPosts: 633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by waynejr2
     I loved coh'ssidekicking and mentoring.  I hated GW2's downleveling.  There is a difference between the two.

    Agree 100%

  • Effin_RabbitEffin_Rabbit Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 772Member Uncommon
    They should have it I agree, they have in STO and im pretty sure they have it in CO too. Maybe if enough people get together on their official forum for the cause you can get them to make a change, id sign it.
  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 8,063Member
    Originally posted by furbans
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Ok I just had the most unfortunate realization. I had queued for "Mad Dragon" Dungeon which I had not yet seen. While I waited (long!) in the queue, due to question I levelled up, and suddenly the note: "You have been removed from the queue."

    WHAT
    THE
    FUCK?!

    I mean, seriously? No downlevelling? No chance to just join a group even though you are a level or two too high? You aren't leaving that to ME, the player?

    This isn't right and tbh it SERIOUSLY pisses me off, when I am locked out from content because of THAT!

    THAT IS NOT FUNNY! image

    I actually CAME to a D&D MMO for the dungeons, for GROUP dungeons. What am I supposed to do while waiting HOURS in the queue? Knitting? Reading books? Of course I level!

     

    Grrrr..

     Name a AAA mmo with downleveling, please?

    Hellllo GW2?

    Most MMOs it does take at least a little effort to lvl.  Neverwinter is is retardidly easy one sneezes and they gain a level and without batting an eyelash one outlevels a dungeon.

    But to the OP, this is WAI.  For better or worse that is how it is.  And I don't buy the Chinese farmers excuse.  If that's the case then they should have made gear BoP instead of this idiotic BoE which just causes a greed fest n postings on the AH.

    Even years old Everquest II had mentoring. Same as City of Heroes, and DAMN that was 8 (EIGHT!) years ago or more! Actually I prefer the voluntary mentoring over the forced downlevelling of GW2.

    But come on guys, the idea is REALLY old. Everquest II did it ages ago. Do we REALLY have to ignore EVERY SINGLE accomplishment of MMOs ever and ever again!?

     

    And yes you CAN go into the dungeon if you find a group via "zone" chat (and good luck with that!). But you'll not get any XP. Sorry I thought in 2013 MMOs should be a bit more complete and convenient, and NOT that we reset all we learned in previous MMOs every fucking single time. (Hello SWTOR....)

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • ranncoreranncore omaha, NEPosts: 93Member
    It takes a week to get to level cap playing casually. I'm just not sure level scaling is necessary for this game. 
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways ChittagongPosts: 996Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Leiloni
    Most games don't downlevel you, I don't know why you'd expect this one to. The only game I've ever heard of that did that was GW2 but downleveling was touted as one of their big cool "features" of the game that made it different from every other MMO.

    You never played Champions Online i guess, it also up level/down level you in group finder but the the most fun about Champions Online is that you can chose a champion in your group and down level or up level to that person's level and enjoy game as much as you like, with any level. ohh and Champions Online developed by Cyptic too.

    i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
    Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by furbans
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Ok I just had the most unfortunate realization. I had queued for "Mad Dragon" Dungeon which I had not yet seen. While I waited (long!) in the queue, due to question I levelled up, and suddenly the note: "You have been removed from the queue."

    WHAT
    THE
    FUCK?!

    I mean, seriously? No downlevelling? No chance to just join a group even though you are a level or two too high? You aren't leaving that to ME, the player?

    This isn't right and tbh it SERIOUSLY pisses me off, when I am locked out from content because of THAT!

    THAT IS NOT FUNNY! image

    I actually CAME to a D&D MMO for the dungeons, for GROUP dungeons. What am I supposed to do while waiting HOURS in the queue? Knitting? Reading books? Of course I level!

     

    Grrrr..

     Name a AAA mmo with downleveling, please?

    Hellllo GW2?

    Most MMOs it does take at least a little effort to lvl.  Neverwinter is is retardidly easy one sneezes and they gain a level and without batting an eyelash one outlevels a dungeon.

    But to the OP, this is WAI.  For better or worse that is how it is.  And I don't buy the Chinese farmers excuse.  If that's the case then they should have made gear BoP instead of this idiotic BoE which just causes a greed fest n postings on the AH.

    Even years old Everquest II had mentoring. Same as City of Heroes, and DAMN that was 8 (EIGHT!) years ago or more! Actually I prefer the voluntary mentoring over the forced downlevelling of GW2.

    But come on guys, the idea is REALLY old. Everquest II did it ages ago. Do we REALLY have to ignore EVERY SINGLE accomplishment of MMOs ever and ever again!?

     

    And yes you CAN go into the dungeon if you find a group via "zone" chat (and good luck with that!). But you'll not get any XP. Sorry I thought in 2013 MMOs should be a bit more complete and convenient, and NOT that we reset all we learned in previous MMOs every fucking single time. (Hello SWTOR....)

    MMOS can not get any more convenient than this. Only thing left now is to give you a button which plays the game for you while you sleep, eat and go to work.

    Have you even tried getting groups outside the dungeon queues? because i have seen many people doing that given how unbalanced dungeons are currently. Players actually prefer to take appropriate levels and a bit decent geared people into dungeons and not rely on queues.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
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    image

  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    Originally posted by Margrave
    Originally posted by waynejr2
     I loved coh'ssidekicking and mentoring.  I hated GW2's downleveling.  There is a difference between the two.

    Agree 100%

     

    +1

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Ok I just had the most unfortunate realization. I had queued for "Mad Dragon" Dungeon which I had not yet seen. While I waited (long!) in the queue, due to question I levelled up, and suddenly the note: "You have been removed from the queue."

    WHAT
    THE
    FUCK?!

    I mean, seriously? No downlevelling? No chance to just join a group even though you are a level or two too high? You aren't leaving that to ME, the player?

    This isn't right and tbh it SERIOUSLY pisses me off, when I am locked out from content because of THAT!

    THAT IS NOT FUNNY! image

    I actually CAME to a D&D MMO for the dungeons, for GROUP dungeons. What am I supposed to do while waiting HOURS in the queue? Knitting? Reading books? Of course I level!

     

    Grrrr..

     

    Well, you can still do the dungeon, but you have to find a group manually and zone in the normal way.

    I do like mentoring systems, hopefullly they add one eventually (their other games have them, i dont see why this wont).

    Also you can see the hard modes of all those dungeons when you reach the level cap, so you havent missed the experience entirely.

    Not sure whats going on with dungeon queues, theres obviously tonnes of people looking. Maybe they can only handle so many groups at once?

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Ok I just had the most unfortunate realization. I had queued for "Mad Dragon" Dungeon which I had not yet seen. While I waited (long!) in the queue, due to question I levelled up, and suddenly the note: "You have been removed from the queue."

    WHAT
    THE
    FUCK?!

    I mean, seriously? No downlevelling? No chance to just join a group even though you are a level or two too high? You aren't leaving that to ME, the player?

    This isn't right and tbh it SERIOUSLY pisses me off, when I am locked out from content because of THAT!

    THAT IS NOT FUNNY! image

    I actually CAME to a D&D MMO for the dungeons, for GROUP dungeons. What am I supposed to do while waiting HOURS in the queue? Knitting? Reading books? Of course I level!

     

    Grrrr..

    You shouldn't have expected a good MMO from a game that, a year ago, was going to be a singleplayer game.

  • fantasyfreak112fantasyfreak112 Orange County, CAPosts: 499Member
    They should have every common themepark MMO feature possible because the D&D players won't be sticking with this anyways.
  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member
    Originally posted by waynejr2

     What is the difference between forced and optional??????

    GW2 is forced -- your level always autoscales, you have no choice

     

    optional mean that down leveling never happens -- unless you choose to make it so

    you would have to play EQ2 or RIFT to see how its optional

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    MMOs with some form of ability to play with each other through some system (be it upleveling, downleveling, level syncing to content, mentoring, apprenticeship, sidekicking, etc.):

    Star Trek Online

    Champions Online

    City of Heroes

    Everquest 2

    Guild Wars 2

    Final Fantasy XI

    Age of Conan

    Rift

    Aion

    Vanguard

    Dragon's Call

    Destiny Online

    I'm sure there are plenty more here.  Most of these are AAA MMOs.  It's hardly an "uncommon" feature.  Not to mention every Cryptic MMO in the past has had this feature.

    image

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  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 842Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Leiloni
    Most games don't downlevel you, I don't know why you'd expect this one to. The only game I've ever heard of that did that was GW2 but downleveling was touted as one of their big cool "features" of the game that made it different from every other MMO.

    yea think gw2 spoiled some people in this regard.. although i really think its a MUST HAVE feature(or at least an optional version like Rift and couple other themeparks) in a themepark game now though.. 

     If all games started doing this like gw2, that would be the thing that ends my mmorpg hobby.

    I agree with you. I hated it in Obliivion and it is one of the things that I didn't care for in GW2. I think it removes that sense of progression as your toon never feels like it is getting stronger. 

     

    what's the downside making it optional like eq2 or Rift?

    I am all for it. There would be no room to complain if it was optional. Great idea. You should be a game dev... image

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,797Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AIMonster

    MMOs with some form of ability to play with each other through some system (be it upleveling, downleveling, level syncing to content, mentoring, apprenticeship, sidekicking, etc.):

    Star Trek Online

    Champions Online

    City of Heroes

    Everquest 2

    Guild Wars 2

    Final Fantasy XI

    Age of Conan

    Rift

    Aion

    Vanguard

    Dragon's Call

    Destiny Online

    I'm sure there are plenty more here.  Most of these are AAA MMOs.  It's hardly an "uncommon" feature.  Not to mention every Cryptic MMO in the past has had this feature.

    There is one really big one that does not have it.  Call it the 100 pound Gorilla in the room and is probably the main reason developers see it as a option not a requirement.  Also how many of those games had it at launch?  I have not played all of those games at launch but of the ones I have it would be 1, GW2 which is more a auto leveling to zone system than a auto leveling to other players.

    I'm not excusing Cryptic of anything honestly.  I believe mentoring/level matching is really a core feature of a social MMO.  I don't use it often in EQ2 but I really appreciate it when I do.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,185Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Acidon
    Originally posted by Leiloni
    Most games don't downlevel you, I don't know why you'd expect this one to. The only game I've ever heard of that did that was GW2 but downleveling was touted as one of their big cool "features" of the game that made it different from every other MMO.

    IMO, Rift does it better.  You are able to manually select the exact level you want to go down to.  You can do any content you like this way, and be as powerful or weak as you want to be in relation to the content.

    I like the GW2 version the most.  It's seamless and keeps everyone on a level playing field with regards to steamrolling a zone.  I never really think about my level in GW2.  It's also cool how they scale drops so you're not just getting complete junk in earlier zones.

    I do like Rift's system though.  It's easy to self-mentor and it gives the player control over the challenge.  I also like how they scale drops and invasion/rift rewards with their system.

    Even so, Rift didn't add that system until well after it was a year old.  They played around with a couple other versions of that too before changing it to what it is now.  The OPs complaint is valid if not melodramatic and overstated.  It should be fairly easy in this game to implement a level balancing system since every zone is isolated as are the instances.

    GW2 is the only big name game I can think of off hand that launched with that system in place.

  • WakygreekWakygreek UnknownPosts: 1,217Member Uncommon
    I think down leveling is a good concept and could potentially be added to end game content, where you would get end game rewards based on how helpful you were to lower level players. It helps newbies coming in and it helps max level players as well.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,185Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AIMonster

    MMOs with some form of ability to play with each other through some system (be it upleveling, downleveling, level syncing to content, mentoring, apprenticeship, sidekicking, etc.):

    Star Trek Online

    Champions Online

    City of Heroes

    Everquest 2

    Guild Wars 2

    Final Fantasy XI

    Age of Conan

    Rift

    Aion

    Vanguard

    Dragon's Call

    Destiny Online

    I'm sure there are plenty more here.  Most of these are AAA MMOs.  It's hardly an "uncommon" feature.  Not to mention every Cryptic MMO in the past has had this feature.

    How many of those games launched with that feature?  How many of them launched with some incomplete core features (mounts, guild storage, guild features, etc)?

    I wonder if WotC has any say over this.  D&D hasn't historically incorporated this feature.  They might have to consider the potential backlash from the D&D community and whether that sets a canonical rule precedence that could create problems.  I think that is one of the distinct disadvantages in dealing with an established IP.

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    Originally posted by udon

    There is one really big one that does not have it.  Call it the 100 pound Gorilla in the room and is probably the main reason developers see it as a option not a requirement.  Also how many of those games had it at launch?  I have not played all of those games at launch but of the ones I have it would be 1, GW2 which is more a auto leveling to zone system than a auto leveling to other players.

    I'm not excusing Cryptic of anything honestly.  I believe mentoring/level matching is really a core feature of a social MMO.  I don't use it often in EQ2 but I really appreciate it when I do.

    I think all the Cryptic games, AoC, and EQ2 (or at least was one of the first to implement it along with CoH) had it at launch, but it's been a while since I've played those so I'm not 100% sure.  Yes, GW2 has an auto-level / level scaling system based on zone that isn't optional, but the end result is you can still play with friends without someone's experience and entertainment suffering as a result.  I understand a lot of people don't like the system though because it's forced on you and you can't go to low level areas and feel as "powerful" as you could with other games.

    I personally expected it to be in Neverwinter since it was in every other Cryptic game, so much so that I was advertising the game to my gaming community with it in mind and before I knew it I was 30 levels ahead of my guildies and unable to play with them without carrying them through a low level dungeon or having them sit and do nothing while I run through a higher level foundry mission.

    I think EQ2 is one of the best examples of it done right.  Not only can you downlevel to a player (I forget what they call it) and still earn rewards, but you can also temporarily set your level down to whatever you feel like to redo content in the game.  In EQ2 we were able to play with a group of people and never feel like we had to stop leveling or stop doing things on our own.

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  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,469Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by waynejr2

     What is the difference between forced and optional??????

    GW2 is forced -- your level always autoscales, you have no choice

     

    optional mean that down leveling never happens -- unless you choose to make it so

    you would have to play EQ2 or RIFT to see how its optional

     I have and I know what they are.  semi-rhetorical question it was.

    What I love about RPGs is progression.  I loved sidekicking as an option in CoX but rarely used it on a timewise percentage.  GW2 takes the feeling of progression away FOR ME.  THEREFORE, the game is a lose FOR ME.  You can call it the greatest mechanic in the world for whatever reason.  Don't assume your reason is the same as mine. 

  • ExittiumExittium Spokane, WAPosts: 19Member
    really I mean what I don't understand is reading these numerous neverwinter threads... almost none of which have anything nice to say... why the hell bother playing if you don't like it and just out to ruin it for people who are enjoying it??? I mean seriously.. go back to WoW.. or GW2.. and for those who keep bragging about damn GW2 having a unique de-level feature... please stfu you scrub newbs... it was damn EQ2 and their mentor system...BUT people wouldn't know because they assume there was no fuq'n MMO before WoW... man all you wow fanbois do is bitch and whine then boast about how great wow is.. when its the same shit just reskinned for every damn x-pack...Then when you actually have to workt o get shit.. yes maybe even 1 thing a month or you whin you don't have time.. no you do its an MMO its not going anywhere.. you just don't want to wait and earn it "you want it now" just like the little bratty bitch in willy wonka "shrug" this site I swear i USED to visit it all the time to check up on things.. now I avoid it like the plague unless I looking for a release date on something of if something is in beta because its turned into a cesspool of bitching and whining ...
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by waynejr2

     What is the difference between forced and optional??????

    GW2 is forced -- your level always autoscales, you have no choice

     

    optional mean that down leveling never happens -- unless you choose to make it so

    you would have to play EQ2 or RIFT to see how its optional

     I have and I know what they are.  semi-rhetorical question it was.

    What I love about RPGs is progression.  I loved sidekicking as an option in CoX but rarely used it on a timewise percentage.  GW2 takes the feeling of progression away FOR ME.  THEREFORE, the game is a lose FOR ME.  You can call it the greatest mechanic in the world for whatever reason.  Don't assume your reason is the same as mine. 

    i always see this yet as a level 80 in GW2 i can go into the starter zones and mass slaughter things no problem so it don't see much of a difference... although they did tweak things a little bit not too long ago to make them a bit harder when you downscale but its still cake compared to hanging out in Orr.. So the progression is still there.. lack of progression at 80 i can agree with because even in the horizontal sense the game is lacking right now

     

    any themepark of this style imho needs some sort of downleveling system

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by waynejr2

     What is the difference between forced and optional??????

    GW2 is forced -- your level always autoscales, you have no choice

     

    optional mean that down leveling never happens -- unless you choose to make it so

    you would have to play EQ2 or RIFT to see how its optional

     I have and I know what they are.  semi-rhetorical question it was.

    What I love about RPGs is progression.  I loved sidekicking as an option in CoX but rarely used it on a timewise percentage.  GW2 takes the feeling of progression away FOR ME.  THEREFORE, the game is a lose FOR ME.  You can call it the greatest mechanic in the world for whatever reason.  Don't assume your reason is the same as mine. 

    i always see this yet as a level 80 in GW2 i can go into the starter zones and mass slaughter things no problem so it don't see much of a difference... although they did tweak things a little bit not too long ago to make them a bit harder when you downscale but its still cake compared to hanging out in Orr.. So the progression is still there.. lack of progression at 80 i can agree with because even in the horizontal sense the game is lacking right now

     

    any themepark of this style imho needs some sort of downleveling system

    Yea in short it doesn't take progression away, it just takes ease and 1 hit kill away, but I assume that's progression these days.

     

    *shivers*

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