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EA Conference call: SWTOR with just under 500k subs, 1.7 million free to play

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  • GruugGruug Chillicothe, ILPosts: 1,311Member Uncommon

    So, what EA is saying is that if you tack on the term "free" and water down what you get for that, that many people will still play the game. No brainer. But, if you ask people to pay a sub that many of them won't once the term "free" is applied. Also a no brainer.

    All I can give is my experience. Went from a 300 plus member guild down to a handful (9 to 10 maybe) and that was AFTER the game went so-called f2p. I just do not see that much excitement over playing a watered down version of the game or paying a sub while others have the chance to play AT ALL for free. Again, a no brainer to me.

     

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,901Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by DaRoamer
    Just announced on the EA 4th quarter conference call.  Subs currently sitting at just under half a million subs, 1.7 million new free to play players since Nov and doubled revenues.  Sub number still growing.

    Well i can tell you that those numbers are slanted big time.How can they say 1.7 f2p since November?You can only goto level 20 and you can do that in anywhere from 2-5 days.So ALL thosee f2p subs from November are either done playing or don't care to play anymore.

    That part should have been obvious,they were definitely trying to inflate  numbers here.So if they are willing to mislead the F2p,why would i think any different on the subs?They are probably counting every single sub they have had since November.

    Approx 20 servers ,around 35k per server is around 700k total.I notice only the 9 US servers are busy but might be the time of day.

    I would say still not bad,but not the numbers they are claiming.

    Here is some REAL numbers.EA stock has fallen almost 40% since that November,this also lead to the recent STEP down or imo told to relieve himself of his duties CEO.If things are going well or holding steadfast,they don't drop that badly and people don't step down or get fired.

    Almost all of the blame was on this game,so it is not doing as well as claim.

    Uhmm no, you can play all the way to 50 for free, 55 with a 20 dollar purchase.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • dead2soondead2soon phoenix, AZPosts: 149Member
    I'd probably be more happy for them if they hadn't employed such creative number crunching in the past. Who knows what to believe to be honest. The smoke and mirrors is strong in this one.
  • BadOrbBadOrb ManchesterPosts: 791Member Uncommon

    Well there's a thing. So not too shabby really. So superniceguy , you mention it needed 500k to make a profit , it's under 500k but the cash shop revenue tied with those subs makes them double what they where earning before F2P per month. So yeah it's similar to 1 mill subs , moneywise. Even if people subbed to get the expansion for $10 , that sub would have ran out in Feb , so no bummped up sub numbers there , try again ? you also mention new meaningfull content , well guess what game update 2.1 was conceived by a different team that has been working on game update 2.2 , first out 14th of May second out within the 8 weeks cadence on 11th of June. So two updates over 8 weeks , since RotHC is superb and 2.2 will contain no actual QOL improvments like 2.1 ( these dates can change btw).I forgot to mention the gree event is comming back before 2.2 , not much but a good fewof my characters are stronger now and I changed 3 of those classes , bring it on ! O and no more daily comms , just basic ones , yay.  Also who was the guy that said F2P can only get to level 20 ? Weird how people try anything to bash the game.

    So full steam ahead Tortanic , where's that blogger now ? 

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
    "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
    The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Sible HedinghamPosts: 1,673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dead2soon
    I'd probably be more happy for them if they hadn't employed such creative number crunching in the past. Who knows what to believe to be honest. The smoke and mirrors is strong in this one.

    This.  I'm guessing the release of the xpack that was roughly the same price if u added a sub as if u didn't and in time for the quarterly wasn't a coincidence.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by DaRoamer
    Just announced on the EA 4th quarter conference call.  Subs currently sitting at just under half a million subs, 1.7 million new free to play players since Nov and doubled revenues.  Sub number still growing.

    Well i can tell you that those numbers are slanted big time.How can they say 1.7 f2p since November?You can only goto level 20 and you can do that in anywhere from 2-5 days.So ALL thosee f2p subs from November are either done playing or don't care to play anymore.

    That part should have been obvious,they were definitely trying to inflate  numbers here.So if they are willing to mislead the F2p,why would i think any different on the subs?They are probably counting every single sub they have had since November.

    Approx 20 servers ,around 35k per server is around 700k total.I notice only the 9 US servers are busy but might be the time of day.

    I would say still not bad,but not the numbers they are claiming.

    Here is some REAL numbers.EA stock has fallen almost 40% since that November,this also lead to the recent STEP down or imo told to relieve himself of his duties CEO.If things are going well or holding steadfast,they don't drop that badly and people don't step down or get fired.

    Almost all of the blame was on this game,so it is not doing as well as claim.

    Uhmm no, you can play all the way to 50 for free, 55 with a 20 dollar purchase.

    Nobody should pay attention to F2P numbers. Someone could create an account, login once, and never login again. To play devil's advocate, how else do you want them to present F2P numbers though? Its the same as GW2 and other MMO's announcing "boxes sold". None of those numbers mean anything, and should never be brought up as any sort of proof of active community.

    The 500k subs on the other hand, is pretty impressive, and more than most people though titwould be at on this site. Heck, I got "called out" in another thread a couple of days ago for even suggesting SWTOR had around 500k subs.

    Say what you want about EA and Blizz, but they (along with CCP) are the only ones announcing actual subscription numbers, and not just some arbitrary "boxes sold" or "F2P accounts" that everyone else does.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by TheBlackWolf
    I love how people in this thread just wildly make up sub numbers for older games, i didn't realize we were counting alternate universes sub numbers now.

    It is a widely quoted number that EQ peaked at 500k subs, and Eve just broke 500k subs last week.

    This game cost way more than any of them, and have an expensive IP to license.

    There's a reason almost all the devs got fired and this game went FTP.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,901Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Margulis
    It's really interesting that people are calling these good numbers when it was originally said that if at any time they have under 1 million subs it would be considered a total failure.

    That was never said, what was said was they needed at least 500k (before it went f2p; micro-transactions) to be profitable, which is no longer the case as it is F2P now.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONPosts: 2,499Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by TheBlackWolf
    I love how people in this thread just wildly make up sub numbers for older games, i didn't realize we were counting alternate universes sub numbers now.

    It is a widely quoted number that EQ peaked at 500k subs, and Eve just broke 500k subs last week.

    This game cost way more than any of them, and have an expensive IP to license.

    There's a reason almost all the devs got fired and this game went FTP.

    What exactly are you saying? Did you misread something or did you miss the part where it said that the revenues were doubled? Shoot, if you could see doubled growth year-over-year I'm sure you'd have a happy bunch of people. 

     

    The gaming industry is heavily project-oriented. Nobody in the industry maintains a staff of 1000 developers to maintain a project, not even Blizzard. 

     

    The fact that the game went F2P, again, has nothing to do with anything other than the fact that it helped double their revenues. Sorry, but your subscription base is static, if your numbers never increase then you never see revenue growth, meaning that F2P contrinuted to their bottom-line substantially. People should be thankfult hat SWTOR still offers a subscription model because the games that are coming out now don't, and probably won't, because it's not the most profitable path. 

     

    So thank you SWTOR! And thank you all the F2P players who are helping to keep the game alive! 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  • BadOrbBadOrb ManchesterPosts: 791Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karahandras
    Originally posted by dead2soon
    I'd probably be more happy for them if they hadn't employed such creative number crunching in the past. Who knows what to believe to be honest. The smoke and mirrors is strong in this one.

    This.  I'm guessing the release of the xpack that was roughly the same price if u added a sub as if u didn't and in time for the quarterly wasn't a coincidence.

    Even though if people actually did that then their sub would have ran out in Feb as I said a few posts ago. Therefore completelly meaningless , unless of course by some miracle those that did then stayed subbed , which just puts tm in the under 500k category.

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
    "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
    The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

    1.7 million FTP accounts, that figure is quite interesting to dwell on, don't you think.

    image

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk

    The gaming industry is heavily project-oriented. Nobody in the industry maintains a staff of 1000 developers to maintain a project, not even Blizzard. 

     

    MMORPG industry is quite a bit different than general gaming industry.   MMORPGs are in continuous development.

    Bioware stated that their plan was to retain their entire staff and they would need 500k subs to be profitable while doing so. Well, they didnt retain their entire staff, they let go a lot of it.  This was absolutely due to the poor performance/poor product.  Now that the staff is smaller, they need less than that 500k number.  With the added f2p revenue they have more than enough.  Hopefully for the people that play the game they are hiring more people.

     

    Blizzard has never had layoffs of the WoW team, and they have been expanding it.  they did lay off some of their CS team last year, which makes some sense because account hacking is no longer a big issue like it was prior.  

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Originally posted by Vlacke Good numbers indeed.
    Good numbers? The most expensive MMORPG and the largest marketed one can't even beat EverQuest's old sub numbers? Can't even beat Eve?

     

     

    Not good at all.


     

    most people couldn't care less what their development budget was or how much money they spent on marketing (still not as much as wow IIANM)

    that is just an excuse to discount the people who are playing and enjoying the game.

     

     

    Way more than WoW, plus the license.

    I bet EA cares. When they decide to pull the plug because they still haven't made their investment back. An expensive game needs millions to be profitable.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Sasami
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Vlacke

    Good numbers indeed.

    Good numbers? The most expensive MMORPG and the largest marketed one can't even beat EverQuest's old sub numbers? Can't even beat Eve?

     

    Not good at all.

    Are you on drugs?!? SWTOR had higher numbers than Everquest ever for first year. So we are looking game with F2P and yet having 500k subs. Lets look other games such as EQ2 and Vanguard that has same F2P+sub model. I think SWTOR bets both in terms of F2P players and subs. Pretty good work. And bonus for EA for having balls to tell numbers unlike Sony or NCSoft.

    They have the balls to inflate their numbers so that their partners don't dump stock, as EA stock has been in free fall. And no, it was estimated to have about 200k subs not long after launch, and they consolodated all the servers. If they have a bump now its because of the FTP launch.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,901Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

     

     

    Way more than WoW, plus the license.

    I bet EA cares. When they decide to pull the plug because they still haven't made their investment back. An expensive game needs millions to be profitable.

    What indicates that this will happen? Nothing that I'm seeing says it will.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,901Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sasami
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Vlacke

    Good numbers indeed.

    Good numbers? The most expensive MMORPG and the largest marketed one can't even beat EverQuest's old sub numbers? Can't even beat Eve?

     

    Not good at all.

    Are you on drugs?!? SWTOR had higher numbers than Everquest ever for first year. So we are looking game with F2P and yet having 500k subs. Lets look other games such as EQ2 and Vanguard that has same F2P+sub model. I think SWTOR bets both in terms of F2P players and subs. Pretty good work. And bonus for EA for having balls to tell numbers unlike Sony or NCSoft.

    They have the balls to inflate their numbers so that their partners don't dump stock, as EA stock has been in free fall. And no, it was estimated to have about 200k subs not long after launch, and they consolodated all the servers. If they have a bump now its because of the FTP launch.

    Do you have any proof here, or is this just a hunch?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by TheBlackWolf
    I love how people in this thread just wildly make up sub numbers for older games, i didn't realize we were counting alternate universes sub numbers now.

    It is a widely quoted number that EQ peaked at 500k subs, and Eve just broke 500k subs last week.

    This game cost way more than any of them, and have an expensive IP to license.

    There's a reason almost all the devs got fired and this game went FTP.

    What exactly are you saying? Did you misread something or did you miss the part where it said that the revenues were doubled?

    Hey guys! We doubled our profit! After we fired 80% of the devs and stopped almost all the development, and went free to play!

     

    When a game is losing a company money, DOUBLING doesn't mean jack shit, because it wasn't making much to begin with.

     

     

    Where did all this SWTOR defenders come from? It is universally regarded as a huge flop.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways ChittagongPosts: 1,002Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61
    Originally posted by Dahkoht

    So fans and folks whose lives are good because of SWTOR ,

    How's it sit that they originally pre launch said (they as in the SWTOR devs) it would compete and possibly surpass WoW subs ?

    I'd call 500 k vs 10 million predicted a failure in any measurement.

     

     

    They did not surpass WoW subs. In this sense it was a failure. Someone wise said about lost love, I think it was M. Lackey in Vanyel trilogy: Just because you lost the greatest love it does not mean that you are not going to find happiness in a lesser one.

    Maybe they failed to bring millions subs, but they have dedicated half a million of fans who love the game and who will stick with them to the end.

    EA CEO said it back then : "We are going to kill world of warcraft". now look where they stand, it is a major failure, not just any failure. 

    i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
    Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,901Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by TheBlackWolf
    I love how people in this thread just wildly make up sub numbers for older games, i didn't realize we were counting alternate universes sub numbers now.

    It is a widely quoted number that EQ peaked at 500k subs, and Eve just broke 500k subs last week.

    This game cost way more than any of them, and have an expensive IP to license.

    There's a reason almost all the devs got fired and this game went FTP.

    What exactly are you saying? Did you misread something or did you miss the part where it said that the revenues were doubled?

    Hey guys! We doubled our profit! After we fired 80% of the devs and stopped almost all the development, and went free to play!

     

    When a game is losing a company money, DOUBLING doesn't mean jack shit, because it wasn't making much to begin with.

     

     

    Where did all this SWTOR defenders come from? It is universally regarded as a huge flop.

    What do peoples responses to you have to do with defending TOR? Is that some type of knee jerk reaction on your part?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,901Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jesteralways
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61
    Originally posted by Dahkoht

    So fans and folks whose lives are good because of SWTOR ,

    How's it sit that they originally pre launch said (they as in the SWTOR devs) it would compete and possibly surpass WoW subs ?

    I'd call 500 k vs 10 million predicted a failure in any measurement.

     

     

    They did not surpass WoW subs. In this sense it was a failure. Someone wise said about lost love, I think it was M. Lackey in Vanyel trilogy: Just because you lost the greatest love it does not mean that you are not going to find happiness in a lesser one.

    Maybe they failed to bring millions subs, but they have dedicated half a million of fans who love the game and who will stick with them to the end.

    EA CEO said it back then : "We are going to kill world of warcraft". now look where they stand, it is a major failure, not just any failure. 

    Have a link to such a quote? I don't remember seeing that said by anyone from EA.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by TheBlackWolf
    I love how people in this thread just wildly make up sub numbers for older games, i didn't realize we were counting alternate universes sub numbers now.

    It is a widely quoted number that EQ peaked at 500k subs, and Eve just broke 500k subs last week.

    This game cost way more than any of them, and have an expensive IP to license.

    There's a reason almost all the devs got fired and this game went FTP.

    What exactly are you saying? Did you misread something or did you miss the part where it said that the revenues were doubled?

    Hey guys! We doubled our profit! After we fired 80% of the devs and stopped almost all the development, and went free to play!

     

    When a game is losing a company money, DOUBLING doesn't mean jack shit, because it wasn't making much to begin with.

     

     

    Where did all this SWTOR defenders come from? It is universally regarded as a huge flop.

    yet in brings in more money each month than any sandbox game ever has.

    Its not like EA is losing money keeping SWTOR open, the game is certainly profitable on a month to month basis, my guess is *very* profitable.  You arent wrong that it was a big flop because of the expectations for it, but the chances of it making money in the long run are extremely high.  

     

    Im not a SWTOR defender, just an idiot rebutter

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by jesteralways
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61
    Originally posted by Dahkoht

    So fans and folks whose lives are good because of SWTOR ,

    How's it sit that they originally pre launch said (they as in the SWTOR devs) it would compete and possibly surpass WoW subs ?

    I'd call 500 k vs 10 million predicted a failure in any measurement.

     

     

    They did not surpass WoW subs. In this sense it was a failure. Someone wise said about lost love, I think it was M. Lackey in Vanyel trilogy: Just because you lost the greatest love it does not mean that you are not going to find happiness in a lesser one.

    Maybe they failed to bring millions subs, but they have dedicated half a million of fans who love the game and who will stick with them to the end.

    EA CEO said it back then : "We are going to kill world of warcraft". now look where they stand, it is a major failure, not just any failure. 

    Have a link to such a quote? I don't remember seeing that said by anyone from EA.

    You know that you are posting on swtor forum sections of mmorpg.com right? go few pages back and you will see that i have been asking people to back up their facts and claims and not one person has bothered to do so. They just reply with more made up facts and conjecture.

    You are expecting too much if you think these people would give you any reliable source to back up their ridiculous claims.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

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    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Originally posted by Vlacke Good numbers indeed.
    Good numbers? The most expensive MMORPG and the largest marketed one can't even beat EverQuest's old sub numbers? Can't even beat Eve?

     

     

    Not good at all.


     

    most people couldn't care less what their development budget was or how much money they spent on marketing (still not as much as wow IIANM)

    that is just an excuse to discount the people who are playing and enjoying the game.

     

     

    Way more than WoW, plus the license.

    I bet EA cares. When they decide to pull the plug because they still haven't made their investment back. An expensive game needs millions to be profitable.

    Not a ToR fan, check my post history, they won't close ToR because they haven't made their investment back, they will just write down the value of the investment as a loss in the financials and carry on taking the profit from he ongoing game. 

    SWToR is probaby going to be a massive failure in terms of Return on Investment, but it only needs to cover its running costs to turn an operating profit.

  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by DaRoamer
    Just announced on the EA 4th quarter conference call.  Subs currently sitting at just under half a million subs, 1.7 million new free to play players since Nov and doubled revenues.  Sub number still growing.

    Well i can tell you that those numbers are slanted big time.How can they say 1.7 f2p since November?You can only goto level 20 and you can do that in anywhere from 2-5 days.So ALL thosee f2p subs from November are either done playing or don't care to play anymore.

    That part should have been obvious,they were definitely trying to inflate  numbers here.So if they are willing to mislead the F2p,why would i think any different on the subs?They are probably counting every single sub they have had since November.

    Approx 20 servers ,around 35k per server is around 700k total.I notice only the 9 US servers are busy but might be the time of day.

    I would say still not bad,but not the numbers they are claiming.

    Here is some REAL numbers.EA stock has fallen almost 40% since that November,this also lead to the recent STEP down or imo told to relieve himself of his duties CEO.If things are going well or holding steadfast,they don't drop that badly and people don't step down or get fired.

    Almost all of the blame was on this game,so it is not doing as well as claim.

    Uhmm no, you can play all the way to 50 for free, 55 with a 20 dollar purchase.

    Nobody should pay attention to F2P numbers. Someone could create an account, login once, and never login again. To play devil's advocate, how else do you want them to present F2P numbers though? Its the same as GW2 and other MMO's announcing "boxes sold". None of those numbers mean anything, and should never be brought up as any sort of proof of active community.

    The 500k subs on the other hand, is pretty impressive, and more than most people though titwould be at on this site. Heck, I got "called out" in another thread a couple of days ago for even suggesting SWTOR had around 500k subs.

    Say what you want about EA and Blizz, but they (along with CCP) are the only ones announcing actual subscription numbers, and not just some arbitrary "boxes sold" or "F2P accounts" that everyone else does.

    i agree on F2P accounts,,those numbers are almost irrelevant

    but box sales(at full price)? in swtors case, 2.5 mio X 50$,,thats roughly 100 mio $ on the day, that they go live

    if you didnt look at box sales,,swtor would look way better

    in short: box sale -player decline= hype factor

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61
    Originally posted by austriacus

    No clue ...-_- I don't think he understands how many people that is for an mmo.

    I cant talk about Tera currently or rift, but Aion is the WoW in asia with millions of subs and in the financialreport from NCsoft Lineage 1 was gaining  in Q3 of 2012(the same quarter GW2 released with 2 million boxes) the same amount as GW2

    Lineage 2 is not far behind either. So yeah Swtor in terms of sub games is what...5th or 6th?

    All this information is public by the way, just go to ncsoft page (owner of most of the games he listed)

    Aion is F2P - no subs.

    Lineage 1 - weren't all US servers shut down?

    Lineage 2 is F2P hybrid ?? - please link sub numbers

    I am of course talking about their eastern counterparts. Just trying to point out what he tried to mean. Not saying they matter in the west but in the big picture of things swtor is 5 or 6th.

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