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EA Conference call: SWTOR with just under 500k subs, 1.7 million free to play

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  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Margulis
    It's really interesting that people are calling these good numbers when it was originally said that if at any time they have under 1 million subs it would be considered a total failure.

    Back when it was a sub game. They said they are now making twice as much money as F2P than they ever earnt as P2P.

  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXPosts: 952Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Margulis
    It's really interesting that people are calling these good numbers when it was originally said that if at any time they have under 1 million subs it would be considered a total failure.

    You are wrong. This is what was originally said.

     

    "At half a million subscribers, the game is substantially profitable, but it's not the kind of thing we would write home about," EA CEO John Riccitiello said in a conference call accompanying EA's third quarter fiscal earnings report Feb 2011.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Vlacke

    Good numbers indeed.

    Good numbers? The most expensive MMORPG and the largest marketed one can't even beat EverQuest's old sub numbers? Can't even beat Eve?

     

    Not good at all.

  • sethman75sethman75 the gongPosts: 212Member Uncommon

    The game now is so much better than release.

    If they want to keep growing they need to keep releasing updated and interesting content.

  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Good numbers? The most expensive MMORPG and the largest marketed one can't even beat EverQuest's old sub numbers? Can't even beat Eve?

     

    Not good at all.

     

    +1

  • TheBlackWolfTheBlackWolf West Columbia, SCPosts: 37Member Uncommon
    I love how people in this thread just wildly make up sub numbers for older games, i didn't realize we were counting alternate universes sub numbers now.
  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Margulis
    Originally posted by baphamet SWTOR gets more unwarranted hate than any MMO to date including wow. but if you take the emotion out of it, its a pretty decent game and better than most of the crap out there that a lot of people here claim is better. especially if you are a KOTOR fan, because then you are used to it being linear and playing the game for the stories and not the mmo endgame aspect,which is really the only area it lacks IMO          
    That highlighted word is one monstrous opinion if I've ever seen one.  As a collector's edition purchaser, planned lifer to the game, and someone who read every novel in preparation of the game's launch, I call it completely warranted.  And of course that's an opinion just like yours, neither more right or wrong.

    well of course it an opinion but if you read these forums and didn't know anything about the game, you would think its one of the worst games ever made.

    completely unwarranted. not saying people don't have legit reasons for not liking it but most off the hate i see here is indeed unwarranted.

    i don't know how many times i have read someone suggest that the game needs to be shut down because its so much of a failure...... unwarranted to the max right there.


  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Vlacke Good numbers indeed.
    Good numbers? The most expensive MMORPG and the largest marketed one can't even beat EverQuest's old sub numbers? Can't even beat Eve?

     

    Not good at all.


    most people couldn't care less what their development budget was or how much money they spent on marketing (still not as much as wow IIANM)

    that is just an excuse to discount the people who are playing and enjoying the game.


  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member

    played 2 months with the release. i couldn't go further. i tried  it again before a couple of months and i can say its way better than it was a year ago. i wont continue to play because the f2p of EA sucks and i don't want to pay a sub for swtor, but all in all is a very good game anymore (if you play it as a sub player and not as a f2p).

    btw if i was to choose between the much hyped b2p gw2 and the ''catastrophic'' subbed swtor then i ll gladly  pay a sub :)

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by ThumbtackJ
    Originally posted by Margulis
    It's really interesting that people are calling these good numbers when it was originally said that if at any time they have under 1 million subs it would be considered a total failure.

    Well I come from a time where the peek sub number was 300k and that was considered just absolutly ridiculous.

     

    I'm not aware of what their budget was and what they need to break even and all that, but ~500k subs sounds good to me. I imagine that there is at least 500k F2P people playing as well. That brings the playerbase to ~1 million. 

     

    WoW is an outlier and I'm pretty much 100% certain that we'll never see that many subs to one game again. So if they were aiming for that, then I would say that that is silly. 

    We'll see high numbers like that again, just not until after WoW has run its course.  Maybe Titan will be the next big thing (no pun intended) or maybe someone else will release the right game at the right time, getting a huge influx of WoW players.

    The trick will be making the game appeal to both western and eastern markets, like WoW has.  Asians really seem to stick to a game (look at how popular the first Star Craft still is), so the real prize right now is in the 4 to 5 million western subscribers.  When they leave, they'll leave in a hurry.  I'm pretty sure they would have already if there was another game worth moving to.

    That's the messed up part about all of this.  There is a huge chunk of people tired of the WoW setting and art style, but still love the general mechanics and gameplay, who are just itching to leave for something else...  except no one is releasing anything else.  All the developers have resigned themselves to F2P gambling box loot games, when now is the time to be coming out with a solid themepark to replace WoW.

    You make me like charity

  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,043Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by Margulis

    Originally posted by baphamet SWTOR gets more unwarranted hate than any MMO to date including wow. but if you take the emotion out of it, its a pretty decent game and better than most of the crap out there that a lot of people here claim is better. especially if you are a KOTOR fan, because then you are used to it being linear and playing the game for the stories and not the mmo endgame aspect,which is really the only area it lacks IMO          
    That highlighted word is one monstrous opinion if I've ever seen one.  As a collector's edition purchaser, planned lifer to the game, and someone who read every novel in preparation of the game's launch, I call it completely warranted.  And of course that's an opinion just like yours, neither more right or wrong.

     

    well of course it an opinion but if you read these forums and didn't know anything about the game, you would think its one of the worst games ever made.

    completely unwarranted. not saying people don't have legit reasons for not liking it but most off the hate i see here is indeed unwarranted.

    i don't know how many times i have read someone suggest that the game needs to be shut down because its so much of a failure...... unwarranted to the max right there.

     

    you know..as long as swtor is alive, at least 1.5 mio PAYING fans are without a game

    compare that, to the 500k paying swtor players

    should the hall be used for a classic piano performance?

    or for busta rhymes?

    i like classic music,,i dont expect it to be on top of the charts, though

    and i sure wouldnt stop a busta rhymes concert, so my handful of piano-loving fans can have their fun

     

  • SasamiSasami HelsinkiPosts: 326Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Vlacke

    Good numbers indeed.

    Good numbers? The most expensive MMORPG and the largest marketed one can't even beat EverQuest's old sub numbers? Can't even beat Eve?

     

    Not good at all.

    Are you on drugs?!? SWTOR had higher numbers than Everquest ever for first year. So we are looking game with F2P and yet having 500k subs. Lets look other games such as EQ2 and Vanguard that has same F2P+sub model. I think SWTOR bets both in terms of F2P players and subs. Pretty good work. And bonus for EA for having balls to tell numbers unlike Sony or NCSoft.

  • akiira69akiira69 San Diego, CAPosts: 590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by MyBoot

    Most MMO's would kill for 500K subs

    Look at EVE it's been around for years and never had that many subs and it's considered a success.

    Yeah... CCP is owned by a major developer, EVE had a 8 digit development budget and is also a major IP that isn't expanding across multiple linked games and it is struggling to match a game launched with the same criteria after 10 years of existence!

     

    Excuse me while I go pray lightsabers become public domain so SW games sink like a stone, the IP has been raped enough for glowbats as is.

    Which major Developer owns CCP Games? Its not EA, Activision/Blizzard, SOE, Square-Enix, WB Games, ZeniMax, 2k Games, Ubisoft, or Microsoft. So who is it?

    This is a direct quote from their website.

    EVE Online Rockets into its Second Decade

    2013.05.06 15:48:57

    New Peak Concurrent User Milestone Hit During 10th Anniversary Celebration

    REYKJAVIK, ICELAND—May 6, 2013CCP Games, the world’s leading independent developer of massively multiplayer games, today celebrated the 10th anniversary of the launch of EVE Online®, the groundbreaking, sci-fi online game with over 500,000 subscribers worldwide.  Launched on May 6, 2003, EVE Online marked its anniversary in style with an enormous in-game celebration that led to a new peak concurrent user (PCU) record for the game of over 65,000 players connected to the same server. 

    Unlike in most online games, every one of those players was celebrating in the same connected universe. EVE Online has continuously existed on a single persistent server cluster shared by all its inhabitants for ten years.  This unique shared environment means actions have lasting consequences that ripple across the thousands of solar systems of EVE, and players’ reputations are built and destroyed by their own skill, deeds and relationships with other players.

    Throughout the last 24 hours, CCP and its players held numerous live events in game and players were given special fireworks launchers munitions for their ships with which they could celebrate the game’s 10th anniversary.

    "Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"

  • GreyhooffGreyhooff New York, NYPosts: 654Member

    I can't believe you guys still believe the massaged numbers coming out of EA.

    It's like you don't learn your lesson.

    We know the subs are lower, much lower than 500k.

    They're including anyone who has been subbed at any time in the last year. And every account created since they went F2P in their F2P calculation, even the ones who stopped before level 20 cap. It's hilarious, but not illegal.

    Come on guys, we know EA has been doing this with SWTOR since the start. This is not new. Don't fall for it again lol

    image

  • akiira69akiira69 San Diego, CAPosts: 590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    I can't believe you guys still believe the massaged numbers coming out of EA.

    It's like you don't learn your lesson.

    We know the subs are lower, much lower than 500k.

    They're including anyone who has been subbed at any time in the last year. And every account created since they went F2P in their F2P calculation, even the ones who stopped before level 20 cap. It's hilarious, but not illegal.

    Come on guys, we know EA has been doing this with SWTOR since the start. This is not new. Don't fall for it again lol

    Show us these "supposed" facts that show the actual subs number is lower than 500k ill be over here eating my fried chicken while i wait.

    "Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    I can't believe you guys still believe the massaged numbers coming out of EA.

    It's like you don't learn your lesson.

    We know the subs are lower, much lower than 500k.

    They're including anyone who has been subbed at any time in the last year. And every account created since they went F2P in their F2P calculation, even the ones who stopped before level 20 cap. It's hilarious, but not illegal.

    Come on guys, we know EA has been doing this with SWTOR since the start. This is not new. Don't fall for it again lol

    Ok let us say i don't believe EA. Where is your source? and no 'we know' isn't good enough.

    Share your source with us and tell us how you know what sub numbers SWTOR currently have. Don't even bother replying with more guess works and speculations if you are going to refute official numbers. That is not how it works.

    Got anything?

    And that highlighted part of your post... oh the irony!

    I haven't played SWTOR in months but still it is funny to see so many regular haters of the game grinding their teeth seeing that game isn't dying like they so desperately want.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    These figures are from the ea that brought us "sim city does most of its calculations server side, always online is a necessity"

    :D
  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DaRoamer
    Just announced on the EA 4th quarter conference call.  Subs currently sitting at just under half a million subs, 1.7 million new free to play players since Nov and doubled revenues.  Sub number still growing.

     

    This would be the sub that 'nobody wants and is archaic and dead'?

    Seems like, when you look at games like SWTOR and TERRA which both show a steady ongoing increase in people using the F2P as a trial and then choosing to sub, that the sub model is strong.

    I think most folks fail to recognise when saying that it is 'dead' that subs make up a large part of the 'F2P' revenue stream in pretty much every MMORPG in the West. How many successful PURE 'F2P' games actually exist in the Western market? They are all pretty much hybrid models.

    Personally, I would be interested in seeing how these games look money wise if you take away the sub cash propping them up.

     

  • GreyhooffGreyhooff New York, NYPosts: 654Member

    If you really think servers hold 35,000 people, you're living in a fantasy world. SWTOR servers have 5k-8k tops, each. The whole super-server thing is marketing bull, we know this. Concurrent server usage is also a smaller proportion of this, 3k at max. Any server of SWTOR does not have 3000 people playing at the same time. Not one. You can check if you want.

    Check the number of servers, check peak activity and you will realise there are less than 300k individual people playing per week, in both EU and US combined.

    Some people believed the EA numbers on subs above 1.5 million when it was obvious that subs were below 300k. I said this, others said this, now 1 year later we know we were right. The game went F2P, the staff got fired, etc - we knew this would happen.

    And now that EA is releasing hilarious numbers again, people are jumping to believe them.

    It's obvious. Stop falling for their massaged numbers. We all know how it's done. F2P with no box sale means you can throw any number out there including the total number of created accounts, which is what the 1.7million is. Sub numbers without the words "current and active" are massaged in multiple ways including any revenue from subs in the last year.

    image

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    If you really think servers hold 35,000 people, you're living in a fantasy world. SWTOR servers have 5k-8k tops, each. The whole super-server thing is marketing bull, we know this. Concurrent server usage is also a smaller proportion of this, 3k at max. Any server of SWTOR does not have 3000 people playing at the same time. Not one. You can check if you want.

    Check the number of servers, check peak activity and you will realise there are less than 300k individual people playing per week, in both EU and US combined.

    Some people believed the EA numbers on subs above 1.5 million when it was obvious that subs were below 300k. I said this, others said this, now 1 year later we know we were right. The game went F2P, the staff got fired, etc - we knew this would happen.

    And now that EA is releasing hilarious numbers again, people are jumping to believe them.

    It's obvious. Stop falling for their massaged numbers. We all know how it's done. F2P with no box sale means you can throw any number out there including the total number of created accounts, which is what the 1.7million is. Sub numbers without the words "current and active" are massaged in multiple ways including any revenue from subs in the last year.

    So in other words you got nothing. If i don't have any reason to believe in EA i surely do not have any reasons to believe in some random forum poster either who can not even back up his claims other than parroting 'we know' or 'its obvious'. Sorry but it is not.

    Not surprised really.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • akiira69akiira69 San Diego, CAPosts: 590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    If you really think servers hold 35,000 people, you're living in a fantasy world. SWTOR servers have 5k-8k tops, each. The whole super-server thing is marketing bull, we know this. Concurrent server usage is also a smaller proportion of this, 3k at max. Any server of SWTOR does not have 3000 people playing at the same time. Not one. You can check if you want.

    Check the number of servers, check peak activity and you will realise there are less than 300k individual people playing per week, in both EU and US combined.

    Some people believed the EA numbers on subs above 1.5 million when it was obvious that subs were below 300k. I said this, others said this, now 1 year later we know we were right. The game went F2P, the staff got fired, etc - we knew this would happen.

    And now that EA is releasing hilarious numbers again, people are jumping to believe them.

    It's obvious. Stop falling for their massaged numbers. We all know how it's done. F2P with no box sale means you can throw any number out there including the total number of created accounts, which is what the 1.7million is. Sub numbers without the words "current and active" are massaged in multiple ways including any revenue from subs in the last year.

    So in other words you got nothing. If i don't have any reason to believe in EA i surely do not have any reasons to believe in some random forum poster either who can not even back up his claims other than parroting 'we know' or 'its obvious'. Sorry but it is not.

    Not surprised really.

    took the words right out from my keyboard. We shouldnt be suprised by it either seeing that he cant back up his claims.

    "Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by akiira69
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    I can't believe you guys still believe the massaged numbers coming out of EA.

    It's like you don't learn your lesson.

    We know the subs are lower, much lower than 500k.

    They're including anyone who has been subbed at any time in the last year. And every account created since they went F2P in their F2P calculation, even the ones who stopped before level 20 cap. It's hilarious, but not illegal.

    Come on guys, we know EA has been doing this with SWTOR since the start. This is not new. Don't fall for it again lol

    Show us these "supposed" facts that show the actual subs number is lower than 500k ill be over here eating my fried chicken while i wait.

    The conference call stated that the subs were just below 500K

    Also I believe the sub numbers but I think they were bloated following the release of Makeb. A lot of people subbed to get Makeb for $10 instead of $20, even myself. The sub numbers are no doubt even lower now.

    Unless they do start bringing out loads of worthwhile new content (eg Cathar race is nice but not wortwhile (although I have been holding back a char on this but plenty others have gotten all they can stomach out the game to bother playing it again with just a new race. If there was a new class as well then it would have been worthwhile), the macrobinocular quests look worthwhile although have not tried that yet), then subs will just continue to drop from here on out.

  • DSWBeefDSWBeef phoenix, AZPosts: 791Member

    TBH I have nothing against swtor. I do have a gripe for BW and EA. They obviously bit off more then they could chew when getting a PRE ALPHA hero engine. To date I think swtor had one of the most enjoyable leveling experiences (story) while endgame was a COMPLETE disaster. If I remember correctly one raid a boss named RAID MONSTER BOSS 0001 or something like that. Raids were bugged and unfinished, pvp was broken, and Ilum didnt work. Swtor lost its players due to TERRIBLE endgame. 

    To this date I tell people if you want a good story then pick up swtor and sub for a month. Play through a class or a couple of your choosing and as soon as you hit 55 with those chars leave. Im even thinking of doing this myself.

    Playing: War Thunder, World of Warcraft, and Grim Dawn
    Waiting on:Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  • akiira69akiira69 San Diego, CAPosts: 590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by akiira69
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    I can't believe you guys still believe the massaged numbers coming out of EA.

    It's like you don't learn your lesson.

    We know the subs are lower, much lower than 500k.

    They're including anyone who has been subbed at any time in the last year. And every account created since they went F2P in their F2P calculation, even the ones who stopped before level 20 cap. It's hilarious, but not illegal.

    Come on guys, we know EA has been doing this with SWTOR since the start. This is not new. Don't fall for it again lol

    Show us these "supposed" facts that show the actual subs number is lower than 500k ill be over here eating my fried chicken while i wait.

    The conference call stated that the subs were just below 500K

    Also I believe the sub numbers but I think they were bloated following the release of Makeb. A lot of people subbed to get Makeb for $10 instead of $20, even myself. The sub numbers are no doubt even lower now.

    Unless they do start bringing out loads of worthwhile new content (eg Cathar race is nice but not wortwhile (although I have been holding back a char on this but plenty others have gotten all they can stomach out the game to bother playing it again with just a new race. If there was a new class as well then it would have been worthwhile), the macrobinocular quests look worthwhile although have not tried that yet), then subs will just continue to drop from here on out.

    and you have no proof that the subs are dropping. all you have is "i think the game sucks so therefore everyone thinks the game sucks" mentality. Come back with some actual sources that show the games P2P Subs are dropping.

    "Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by akiira69
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by akiira69
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    I can't believe you guys still believe the massaged numbers coming out of EA.

    It's like you don't learn your lesson.

    We know the subs are lower, much lower than 500k.

    They're including anyone who has been subbed at any time in the last year. And every account created since they went F2P in their F2P calculation, even the ones who stopped before level 20 cap. It's hilarious, but not illegal.

    Come on guys, we know EA has been doing this with SWTOR since the start. This is not new. Don't fall for it again lol

    Show us these "supposed" facts that show the actual subs number is lower than 500k ill be over here eating my fried chicken while i wait.

    The conference call stated that the subs were just below 500K

    Also I believe the sub numbers but I think they were bloated following the release of Makeb. A lot of people subbed to get Makeb for $10 instead of $20, even myself. The sub numbers are no doubt even lower now.

    Unless they do start bringing out loads of worthwhile new content (eg Cathar race is nice but not wortwhile (although I have been holding back a char on this but plenty others have gotten all they can stomach out the game to bother playing it again with just a new race. If there was a new class as well then it would have been worthwhile), the macrobinocular quests look worthwhile although have not tried that yet), then subs will just continue to drop from here on out.

    and you have no proof that the subs are dropping. all you have is "i think the game sucks so therefore everyone thinks the game sucks" mentality. Come back with some actual sources that show the games P2P Subs are dropping.

    Fact is I was subbed and now I am not, plus others have siad they are switching from subs to preferred

    Game launched with 2 million subs, and declined through 2012 resulting in it going F2P to survive, and Subs were just under 1 million in August, when F2P was announced, and are now just under 500K, so that is fact they dropped

    I do not think the game sucks, it is fact the game sucks, otherwise the 2 million  people would still be playing, and it would not be F2P.

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