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Originally posted by Horusra Originally posted by bubaluba Originally posted by Horusra Originally posted by bubaluba Originally posted by Horusra Open world PvP is the fail mechanic of the MMO world...thanks to the Gankers and Epeeners.
Well, pve is just same as single player game. Why even to try something like that??
So the Grand daddy of MMO's EQ1 was a single player game? A game that is still open and running. Better question is why try something with Open World PvP the game is just going to fail.
So WOW and EVE are failed games! Double LOL. Only pve game which have moderate success is LOTRO.
WoW learned Open World was fail that is why there is crap going on in the open world now. Battle grounds and arenas are the only things getting love because controlled PvP is the only success. As to Eve...so you have 1....1...and I mean 1 semi successful PvP game...out of how many. Even a blind man can hit a target once if given enough bullets. EQ1, EQ2, AC, LOTR, WoW, DDO, Rift, GW1, UO...if including games with no/limited/or under used open world PvP DAoC, GW2, tec...but hey you got Eve....lol
Sounds like you havent played many PvP MMOs or know much about them. Probably has something to do with your obvious distaste for them.
Open world PvP makes for some of the best and most immersive MMO designs for a servers community. The game must be tailored properly with respect to content and economy to give it meaning and value to pursue. These very MMOs can still find a place and value of enjoyment and purpose for PVEing exclusively, but giving the players the freedom to shape their world makes for a very interesting environment.
the whole damn POLL is a sham. pay attention 1: you want more PVE 2 you like the PVP focus or 3 you want less PVP? anyone else see whats goin on here. 1 and 3 are the same damn thing, and 2 isnt even an accurate statemrnt by someone who feels that the game is too PVP focused. its not a balanced poll. the answers are skewed to one persons perception of the game.
lets see, over 120 hours of estimated gameplay to level 50, and once max level the choice to do the other 2 facitons questlines at 50+ and 50++ difficulty, and better rewarda that rival end game progresison rewareds. thats approximately 360 hours of pure PVE gameplay.
the game is launching with 16 instanced dungeons avaiable at appropriate level and again at max level with a new storyline. 16 dungeons!! , thats almost double the amount of dungeons that the BLIZZ giant has avaiable at any tier level. MOP has only 9 dungeons by comparison, and we arent all WOW fans, but give em credit, theyve got more content than most MMOs cuz theyve got the money to do it.
Adventure Zones ( end game content ) on top of that which we know little about at the moment, but im excited to see whats goin on heree, cuz they seem to be in the process of making somehting a little more exciting than raids ( pull trash, kill boss, get loot, rinse and repeat, the eternal hamster wheel )
Poll sucks and the person that made it clearly thinks there isnt enough PVE content in the game. will i take more PVE content SUREEE, but am i happy with what im seeing? youre damn right
How is the game being tailored towards PvP?
You can participate in it if you like but by no means is it the the primary focus of the game.
Remember it is a TES game and they have stated several times that PvE, exploration etc is the overwhelming point of the whole game. They want to keep the existing TES fanbase, not alienate it.
Originally posted by sethman75 How is the game being tailored towards PvP? You can participate in it if you like but by no means is it the the primary focus of the game. Remember it is a TES game and they have stated several times that PvE, exploration etc is the overwhelming point of the whole game. They want to keep the existing TES fanbase, not alienate it.
Uhhh.....the faction locked races didn't give you a hint at all? They did that strictly to make the realm versus realm work the way they want. What about the zone lock until max level (and then it's only phased)? What about the fact that all the major preview trailers have focuses on the realm vs. realm pvp?
Yeah, definitely not tailored towards pvp..... /eyeroll
Originally posted by Margulis Originally posted by sethman75 How is the game being tailored towards PvP? You can participate in it if you like but by no means is it the the primary focus of the game. Remember it is a TES game and they have stated several times that PvE, exploration etc is the overwhelming point of the whole game. They want to keep the existing TES fanbase, not alienate it.
the zone lock until max level was only put in there to appease all the "fans" complaining about not being able to see the enemy lands with the same character.
sure TESO is focused on their pvp, are you suggesting that its more focused on the pvp than the pve? if so you are definitely wrong and i don't have to even play the game to tell you that.
back on topic, ES was never a sandbox game, series, genre, or anything of the sort.
sorry kiddies but you are just going to have to stick to niche indy mmo's like darkfall or asian anime crap if you want a sandbox pvp game.
or just wait for EQnext and WOD like i am doing instead of bashing every game that isn't made the exact way you want it.
I don't mind pvp but for god's sake don't let it destroy pve abilities. I even don't mind open world pvp, but we must have a deep pve world primarily.
Wake me when a company makes a sandbox that has PvE content that isn't complete trash.
This is a silly question as this game doesn't appear to be very freedom/virtual world focused anyway.
Arena and instanced PvPer's console games are that way -----------------------> leave MMO's alone please. I don't even know how the hell esport PvPer's ended up in this genre anyway. Idiot game companies have gutted all forms of freedom and PvE (and even open world PvP) in the name of esport instanced PvP balancing.
I also agree that PvE AI needs to be ramped up quite a bit to keep the ADD crowd interested in PvE.
Originally posted by EL_Sirios [mod edit]
agreed. pve gets boring real fast because the npc AI isn't complex enough.
to me the game seems about a 50/50 split pve/pvp focus. infact they've told and shown us far less about pvp than pve.
As a keen PvP'er AND PvE'er, I always find this argument to be full of hot air.
The fact is - the vast majority of mass PvP is zerging, and not nearly as interesting as a difficult boss-fight (pre-farm...).
Smaller PvP skirmishes can be great fun and much more challenging in general, but to say that a preference for PvE makes someone a 'sissy' is farcical, bias nonesense.
"There are at least two kinds of games.One could be called finite, the other infinite.A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
another biased poll.
where is the "more pvp sandbox - less rvr focus" option?
that and not having a "show me the results" option invalidates the whole thing.
Originally posted by muffins89 Originally posted by EL_Sirios [mod edit]
personally i find its the PVP'ers that tend to do the most whining, they come in 3 varieties, the first being the ones who want to man up and go 1 v 1, and then whinge like crazy because they get pwned by the guys friends, and then theres the zergers who travel around in groups and whinge when they get on the wrong end of other people doing the exact same thing
the last group, the open worlders, who roam around looking for someone to kill, preferably someone already in combat with an npc of some kind, because you know, they're easier to kill
I agree with you but I'm not thinking of AI in the way you are: humans do unexpected things that give me a better challenge kind of thing.
NPCs are always in the same spot... doing the same thing... worrying about the same 10 rats... on a timer... forever and ever. They don't have lives. That is what makes PvE boring. If NPCs had in-game motivation, moved around with a purpose, could change, could even die... that would make you want to poke around in PvE to see what was happening today...which would be different than yesterday.
But developers, to date, have had this misguided idea that if the PvE experience for Joe on Tuesday isn't identical to the experience Jim had on Sunday then Joe would have every right to complain and whine...can't have that.
Ironically, of all the single player RPG series, it was TES that first focused on giving NPCs the illusion of life and purpose. It's not hard to do with single player games but the only way it has been implemented in MMOs so far has been by having the same NPC simultaneously exist in several different areas (e.g., Hemet Nessingway in WOW) or to phase the NPC and/or area. It looks like ESO will be using the same phased PvE approach that WOW now uses ad nauseum.
OTOH, all signs are pointing to this being the new and "revolutionary" secret main feature of EQ Next. They recently acquired Storybricks after having worked with them as contractors for several years. This is from Dec, 2012 article on Massively about Storybricks:
"With these new systems, interacting with NPCs could mean much more than just triggering the next chapter of a quest or accessing a vending-machine-shaped like a person. Important NPCs should have inner lives, complex relationships, and their own goals that they work toward. They should remember past interactions with your characters and adjust their behavior depending on whether they feel grateful, trusting, envious, betrayed, and they should be able to express these emotions in a convincing manner, each one coloring their day to day activities (e.g., a guard whose girlfriend just left him should act differently from one who was just dressed down by his captain).Player characters should also be able to communicate their feelings to NPCs. Imagine if you could share what you need or want -- and not just through canned emotes or quest dialogue -- and have NPCs react appropriately depending on their own emotional and mental states. The relationships your character has with NPCs would act as keys to new content: A trusting noble might ask you to help him topple a corrupt prince; a jealous husband might not like your friendship with his herbalist wife. Your interactions could give you more resources: Your friendship with the head of the trader's guild might grant you an audience with a local leader, belonging to a ranger faction might provide you with a companion when crossing savage lands, and so on." ( http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/27/exclusive-storybricks-dev-diary-expounds-on-bringing-npcs-to-li/ )
Now, that sounds like someone finally kicking PVE up a notch.
Originally posted by Neherun To set some things straight: The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone. The game is focused around the PvP endgame. You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game. With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.
This is not accurate at all....
Begone with sandbox and begone with phased zoned matchmaking co-op game they are doing now.
I would want TESO to create seamless server based TES worlds grouping separate few thousand communities. Don't want full hardcore sandbox and don't want zoned, phased, zone-copied LFG graphical front-end with single player story mini-game they produce now.
I will not buy TESO.