That's great. SWG did not fail. So go play the game then. Since it didn't fail, it is still running right?
This is the point people are trying to make. There is no reason to get all defensive. Unlike most of the posters who are slamming SWTOR, people are not slamming SWG saying it was a bad game it just isn't this game, and not what this game is intended to be. Some of the suggestions just do not fit in a Themepark setting which is what this game is. Same as you do not go to McDonalds expecting to get waited at your table. Yes it is a restauarant, but that is not a feature found in Fast Food, it is a feature of a sit down. Not saying that one is better than other, they just fit needs. As far as the debate on game failure, games Fail for multiple reasons. Some games fail because they were just bad games and noone wanted to play. Some games fail because the market is oversaturated. Some games fail because there is a failure of communication between producers and backers. And some games fail because the management makes a poor decision and closes the game for whatever reasons.
When a game fails for one of the last 2 reason it is the hardest. In those instances games may be popular and thriving. This makes it difficult for the fans to accept that the game they loved failed. Again just because a game fails does not mean it is a bad game. It could be a great game, the best game that has ever been around. In the end it failed to keep running. They aren't saying it failed to be a good game. A lot aren't even saying that SWTOR didn't fail. A lot are agreeing that SWTOR DID fail to meet expectations. They aren't saying one is better than the other, they are saying that SWTOR is not SWG. There are people who like SWTOR and there are people that like SWG and that's ok. Same as there are people who like McDonalds and people who like Applebees. Just because you like Applebees it doesn't mean that McDonalds should be closed because it does not have the features that Applebees does. It does not mean that McDonalds should be closed down for not having those features. Nor does it mean Applebees should be closed either. People are not saying that SWG should have gone out of business. They are saying that it DID. Right or wrong it happened.
Maybe if the new Star Wars movies are wildly successful they'll make a new mmo in that era to capitalize off the movies. Hopefully Disney has the bussiness savvy to go with a competent partner rather than EA. Then again, after all the money swtor will wind up losing they'll prolly stick with single player games rather than risk the mmo minefields.
yup, hardcore games attract most players, thats common knowledge
luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay
and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather...
swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game
and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done,
because of the engines limitations
disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong.
one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.
hmm.. i thought they only have lost subs since the simplifying trend begun. i'm not saying WoW was too hardcore in the first place, but certainly they didn't win much by changing their design philosophy.
Only about 1-2 mil. And most of that was probably just due to old age, rather than desire for those players to play hardcore games. Although I do find it amusing when 'vanilla' WoW players think that WoW was somehow hardcore at launch. Yeah no. It never was.
That's great. SWG did not fail. So go play the game then. Since it didn't fail, it is still running right?
A MMO shutting down should not always be viewed as failure in any sense. SWG did not fail in any way. It got shut down to make way for SWTOR - read my previous posts for explantion. A MMO that shut down due to failure would be like the Matrix, which ended up with about 2 servers and both dead. The same for Vanguard, which now only has one server, but SOE do not shut down MMOs easily. LA called the shots with SWG, and put all their eggs in one basket with SWTOR, and lost - BW is now just left with the name and a division within EA, what made Bioware great is no more, the main people have left the company. LA is now no more. I doubt BW and LA would be no more if SWTOR was the success it was - they would be basking in its glory otherwise being proud owners of a MMO that is as popular or more popular as WOW. At least SOE is still ticking and functioning and moving on and learning from their past mistakes and others etc.
SWG can still be played, just not officially. It was so great people put the effort into resurrecting it. I doubt people will do the same with SWTOR when it shuts down.
SWTOR failed from the get go, and is a failed active MMO, because they have no clue what they are doing, and the content that is being put in, was all mentioned a year or so ago, and nothing new since. There is no solid future for the game, but that does not mean it will shut down, just stay active as it is now, for however long, just adding more bits and pieces into the CM with nothing worthwhile or meaningful - basically paying a sub fee to a single player game that does not have monthly fee, but has occasional DLC to pay for.
Timing has and seems to always be as important as the qaulity of a game.If wqe look at another sci fi spac type game,EVE it does about 1/4 what SWTOR does but has more success.Why?Well Eve was out first.no competition for that market.Gamers tend to be afraid to let go,if they spent months,years building a player in a game,they are not easily letting go.So although SWTOR is a muich better game than Eve,they won't get the players becuase the market share was already scooped by Eve.
You sire, are not that smart.
You can't compare EVE to SWTOR.
You say SWTOR is much better then EVE....some stuff:
EVE has 1 server with 50k players on it at most times, SWTOR has server merges and peaking at 500-1000 tops
EVE is a sandbox, SWTOR is a bad themepark.
EVE is growing, SWTOR is dying
EVE is innovating, SWTOR is copying.
I Like Star Wars VERY much, but you comparing the best sandbox to the worst themepark is just raping the whole mmo genre and showing that you have actually no knowledge of these games.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
OP, SWTOR needed a lot of things that was brought up in beta by a few that really wanted to see improvements, but ignored by the devs, and fans of Bioware just made it worse by bum kissing them the whole beta pretending the game was the best thing since sliced bread.
Bioware devs had huge egos and ignored tester that brought up problems and design flaws.
yup, hardcore games attract most players, thats common knowledge
luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay
and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather...
swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game
and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done,
because of the engines limitations
disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong.
one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.
Agree. Make it too hard and players will flock to something else.
Hardcore has and will always be a minority group
I love how pepople on these forums completely forget thet SWG Pre NGE was bleeding subs at an alarming rate.
Yes, that is correct....your mecca of sandbox games was failing hard...NGE was a last ditch effort to save it. Granted, the NGE made the game a lot worse, but nothing can hide the fact that Pre NGE SWG was going downhill fast. If it came out today, its population would dwindle faster that SWTOR.
SWG was not failing hard or fast. It peaked on Xfire in 2004, no doubnt with the JTL expansion, that is one year after release. It kept a steady amount of players until they started screwing around with the CU and NGE in 2005, but the numbers were not what LA wanted. None of the servers were as dead as SWTOR for years, and there were no server merges until 2009, which was 6 years after launch. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months.
I think if it came out today it would get more population, as at the end it had more features than most MMOs put together. People were mainly put off my the sweeping changes of the CU and NGE.
You are completely rerwiting history....NGE/CU was a direct result of their sub numbers dropping. There is no debating this....NGE was a last ditch effort to save the game, but it incidentially spead up its demise.
No, you just misunderstand what I mean
There was no obvious signs of decline with SWG as could be seen with SWTOR. SWG had server merges in 2009, 6 years after release and 3 years after NGE. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months of launch. Like I said it had a steady amount of players - plenty people playing, but LA were just not happy with the numbers, when they saw the success of WOW in 2004. Any decline in SWG, was negligable, and only affected LA (maybe SOE), but not the players. SWTORs decline affected LA/EA/BW and the players, as it dropped so fast, leaving many servers actually dead and no means to transfer, and still does not.
Nobody is going to argue that SWTOR had a faster decline, but also dont forget that SWTOR had upwards of 5 times the population and server farm of SWG at SWG's peak. If you want to compare the 2 that way also, why are you leaving out the part about SWTOR ending up keeping around 500k subs, you know the same (or more so ) that SWG had at SWG's peak concurrent subs (dont quote the "million boxes sold" piece, SOE confirned their highest concurrent sub numbers were around 500k).
All i'm pointing out is that the last thing SWTOR needs, is to mimic another SW MMO that was bleeding subs as well. Take off your rose colored glasses, SWG was in decline long before CU/NGE,
yup, hardcore games attract most players, thats common knowledge
luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay
and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather...
swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game
and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done,
because of the engines limitations
disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong.
one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.
Agree. Make it too hard and players will flock to something else.
Hardcore has and will always be a minority group
I love how pepople on these forums completely forget thet SWG Pre NGE was bleeding subs at an alarming rate.
Yes, that is correct....your mecca of sandbox games was failing hard...NGE was a last ditch effort to save it. Granted, the NGE made the game a lot worse, but nothing can hide the fact that Pre NGE SWG was going downhill fast. If it came out today, its population would dwindle faster that SWTOR.
SWG was not failing hard or fast. It peaked on Xfire in 2004, no doubnt with the JTL expansion, that is one year after release. It kept a steady amount of players until they started screwing around with the CU and NGE in 2005, but the numbers were not what LA wanted. None of the servers were as dead as SWTOR for years, and there were no server merges until 2009, which was 6 years after launch. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months.
I think if it came out today it would get more population, as at the end it had more features than most MMOs put together. People were mainly put off my the sweeping changes of the CU and NGE.
You are completely rerwiting history....NGE/CU was a direct result of their sub numbers dropping. There is no debating this....NGE was a last ditch effort to save the game, but it incidentially spead up its demise.
If you even played SWG PRE NGE you would know it started with the Combat Upgrade, and just how many people loved that game before these things were implemented, and how well it was doing until the NGE completely ruined everything in the game and more than half of the community left. I was there in the forums right when they put out the NGE and there were hundreds if not thousands of posts flooding the forums of really pissed off customers. Apperantly you were not there when The New Game Enhancements were implemented in November 2005. The Major changes included the reduction and simplification of professions, simplification of gameplay mechanics, and Jedi becoming a starting profession.. The NGE ruined SWG, it Buried it. Everyone that played SWG like it was there life knows this.
yup, hardcore games attract most players, thats common knowledge
luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay
and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather...
swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game
and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done,
because of the engines limitations
disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong.
one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.
Agree. Make it too hard and players will flock to something else.
Hardcore has and will always be a minority group
I love how pepople on these forums completely forget thet SWG Pre NGE was bleeding subs at an alarming rate.
Yes, that is correct....your mecca of sandbox games was failing hard...NGE was a last ditch effort to save it. Granted, the NGE made the game a lot worse, but nothing can hide the fact that Pre NGE SWG was going downhill fast. If it came out today, its population would dwindle faster that SWTOR.
SWG was not failing hard or fast. It peaked on Xfire in 2004, no doubnt with the JTL expansion, that is one year after release. It kept a steady amount of players until they started screwing around with the CU and NGE in 2005, but the numbers were not what LA wanted. None of the servers were as dead as SWTOR for years, and there were no server merges until 2009, which was 6 years after launch. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months.
I think if it came out today it would get more population, as at the end it had more features than most MMOs put together. People were mainly put off my the sweeping changes of the CU and NGE.
You are completely rerwiting history....NGE/CU was a direct result of their sub numbers dropping. There is no debating this....NGE was a last ditch effort to save the game, but it incidentially spead up its demise.
^-- Ok this is By far the most ignorant and dumbest post I've ever read in these forums. I mean seriously do you just come up with these things in your head? If you even played SWG PRE NGE you would know it started with the Combat Upgrade, and just how many people loved that game before these things were implemented, and how well it was doing until the NGE completely ruined everything in the game and more than half of the community left. I was there in the forums right when they put out the NGE and there were hundreds if not thousands of posts flooding the forums of really pissed off customers. Apperantly you were not there when The New Game Enhancements were implemented in November 2005. The Major changes included the reduction and simplification of professions, simplification of gameplay mechanics, and Jedi becoming a starting profession.. While you come up with your own delusions in your head how things "Really Happened" when you don't even know what your talking about. The NGE ruined SWG, it Buried it. Everyone that played SWG like it was there life knows this. I mean seriously it's there posted all over the internet. Do some research and educate. Google or Wiki would be a great start for you.
Did I say nobody liked SWG pre CU/NGE? No. I stated a historacle fact, that it was in decline, and the CU/NGE were a last ditch effort to save it. Stop, just utterly stop rewriting history. This is 100% undebatable fact.
With that said, they utterly broke the game with the CU/NGE, but that doesnt change the fact that it was declining before that. Your entire post is literally arguning that NGE/CU was hated by the masses...something I agree with and never debated. No amount of walls of texts, or claiming im ignorant can change the facts my friend.
yup, hardcore games attract most players, thats common knowledge
luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay
and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather...
swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game
and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done,
because of the engines limitations
disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong.
one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.
Agree. Make it too hard and players will flock to something else.
Hardcore has and will always be a minority group
I love how pepople on these forums completely forget thet SWG Pre NGE was bleeding subs at an alarming rate.
Yes, that is correct....your mecca of sandbox games was failing hard...NGE was a last ditch effort to save it. Granted, the NGE made the game a lot worse, but nothing can hide the fact that Pre NGE SWG was going downhill fast. If it came out today, its population would dwindle faster that SWTOR.
SWG was not failing hard or fast. It peaked on Xfire in 2004, no doubnt with the JTL expansion, that is one year after release. It kept a steady amount of players until they started screwing around with the CU and NGE in 2005, but the numbers were not what LA wanted. None of the servers were as dead as SWTOR for years, and there were no server merges until 2009, which was 6 years after launch. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months.
I think if it came out today it would get more population, as at the end it had more features than most MMOs put together. People were mainly put off my the sweeping changes of the CU and NGE.
You are completely rerwiting history....NGE/CU was a direct result of their sub numbers dropping. There is no debating this....NGE was a last ditch effort to save the game, but it incidentially spead up its demise.
No, you just misunderstand what I mean
There was no obvious signs of decline with SWG as could be seen with SWTOR. SWG had server merges in 2009, 6 years after release and 3 years after NGE. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months of launch. Like I said it had a steady amount of players - plenty people playing, but LA were just not happy with the numbers, when they saw the success of WOW in 2004. Any decline in SWG, was negligable, and only affected LA (maybe SOE), but not the players. SWTORs decline affected LA/EA/BW and the players, as it dropped so fast, leaving many servers actually dead and no means to transfer, and still does not.
Nobody is going to argue that SWTOR had a faster decline, but also dont forget that SWTOR had upwards of 5 times the population and server farm of SWG at SWG's peak. If you want to compare the 2 that way also, why are you leaving out the part about SWTOR ending up keeping around 500k subs, you know the same (or more so ) that SWG had at SWG's peak concurrent subs (dont quote the "million boxes sold" piece, SOE confirned their highest concurrent sub numbers were around 500k).
All i'm pointing out is that the last thing SWTOR needs, is to mimic another SW MMO that was bleeding subs as well. Take off your rose colored glasses, SWG was in decline long before CU/NGE,
SWTOR had 2 million subs from the several years of hype from EA/BW, not from the game itself. If the game was half a success and good enough for 10 years as what EA said it would last before launch, then it should have maintained 1 mill subs for at least a year. People who bought it knew there would be a $15 monthly fee, and expected to play it for years, with some paying for a years worth subscription too. Many people invested loads into the game, and they were either subbed as took out lengthy subscriptions but were not playing, or just endured it, so as not to make the money spent on it a waste.
If the game did not go F2P, it would probably be deader than SWG in its final days in Dec 2012.
Now the number of subs are not known, since it went F2P. They probably got a few new subs when it F2P but chances are they will go preferred after playing through a couple of characters. There is not enough stuff in game to keep people playing or subbing long term, unlike SWG, even the NGE version.
yup, hardcore games attract most players, thats common knowledge
luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay
and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather...
swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game
and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done,
because of the engines limitations
disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong.
one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.
Agree. Make it too hard and players will flock to something else.
Hardcore has and will always be a minority group
I love how pepople on these forums completely forget thet SWG Pre NGE was bleeding subs at an alarming rate.
Yes, that is correct....your mecca of sandbox games was failing hard...NGE was a last ditch effort to save it. Granted, the NGE made the game a lot worse, but nothing can hide the fact that Pre NGE SWG was going downhill fast. If it came out today, its population would dwindle faster that SWTOR.
SWG was not failing hard or fast. It peaked on Xfire in 2004, no doubnt with the JTL expansion, that is one year after release. It kept a steady amount of players until they started screwing around with the CU and NGE in 2005, but the numbers were not what LA wanted. None of the servers were as dead as SWTOR for years, and there were no server merges until 2009, which was 6 years after launch. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months.
I think if it came out today it would get more population, as at the end it had more features than most MMOs put together. People were mainly put off my the sweeping changes of the CU and NGE.
You are completely rerwiting history....NGE/CU was a direct result of their sub numbers dropping. There is no debating this....NGE was a last ditch effort to save the game, but it incidentially spead up its demise.
^-- Ok this is By far the most ignorant and dumbest post I've ever read in these forums. I mean seriously do you just come up with these things in your head? If you even played SWG PRE NGE you would know it started with the Combat Upgrade, and just how many people loved that game before these things were implemented, and how well it was doing until the NGE completely ruined everything in the game and more than half of the community left. I was there in the forums right when they put out the NGE and there were hundreds if not thousands of posts flooding the forums of really pissed off customers. Apperantly you were not there when The New Game Enhancements were implemented in November 2005. The Major changes included the reduction and simplification of professions, simplification of gameplay mechanics, and Jedi becoming a starting profession.. While you come up with your own delusions in your head how things "Really Happened" when you don't even know what your talking about. The NGE ruined SWG, it Buried it. Everyone that played SWG like it was there life knows this. I mean seriously it's there posted all over the internet. Do some research and educate. Google or Wiki would be a great start for you.
you call him ignorant and dumb?
you liked swg,,that is your right, but the devs had the actual numbers
do you really think, they would do such a drastic thing, if it wasnt NECESSARY?
its easy for you to say "the game is doing fine", but if your paycheck was depending on it ,
Timing has and seems to always be as important as the qaulity of a game.If wqe look at another sci fi spac type game,EVE it does about 1/4 what SWTOR does but has more success.Why?Well Eve was out first.no competition for that market.Gamers tend to be afraid to let go,if they spent months,years building a player in a game,they are not easily letting go.So although SWTOR is a muich better game than Eve,they won't get the players becuase the market share was already scooped by Eve.
You sire, are not that smart.
You can't compare EVE to SWTOR.
You say SWTOR is much better then EVE....some stuff:
EVE has 1 server with 50k players on it at most times, SWTOR has server merges and peaking at 500-1000 tops
EVE is a sandbox, SWTOR is a bad themepark.
EVE is growing, SWTOR is dying
EVE is innovating, SWTOR is copying.
I Like Star Wars VERY much, but you comparing the best sandbox to the worst themepark is just raping the whole mmo genre and showing that you have actually no knowledge of these games.
so,,EVE is so unique, that it basically breaks the law of physics?
yes you can compare them, and you have to, since they are in the same business
when testing cars, some parameters are the same for all categories,,top speed, mileage, etc.
they use the same rules for a sports car, and a truck
I love how pepople on these forums completely forget thet SWG Pre NGE was bleeding subs at an alarming rate.
Yes, that is correct....your mecca of sandbox games was failing hard...NGE was a last ditch effort to save it. Granted, the NGE made the game a lot worse, but nothing can hide the fact that Pre NGE SWG was going downhill fast. If it came out today, its population would dwindle faster that SWTOR.
You're right but for totally the wrong reasons.
The game was bleeding subs not because it was the most advanced, easy-to-play, hard-to-learn MMORPG ever launched but because it was launched half-finished and then SOE immediately stopped development work on it - no combat balancing, no bug fixing, no regular patches etc.
With WoW, Blizzard taught the world that a successful MMORPG is constantly being developed, corrected, adjusted and renewed.
Irony is that SWTOR wasnt/isnt doing any better than SWG pre CU/NGE, in fact in relative numbers SWTOR failed on few orders of magnitude harder than SWG (investment/retention....)
Every player is different, and likes different things... For me there are other things important then the OP. Personally i think this is the most immersive story MMO ever.
So what would i add.
Replace the space combat with something fun..
Make your ships customisable and add trophies to the game that can be used to make your ship look like a home.
Character progress stops at max level, they need to add a good AA system that allows for more character differentation at max level and beyound
More stories and planets at max level, the strong point of this game is the class and player stories, add new chapters available for all players at max level.
More content, personally i would love to see player generated content... But this will probably never be done with the lousy hero engine.. But player created flashpoints could be awesome.
A 3rd neutral fraction starting at the end of your class based story. You can either join a neutral faction or even switch sides.
more attention for the openworld PvP zones.. Give some PvP quests and goals to give people a reason to PvP in these zones.
more types of PvP instances.
Add new zones and planets with dynamic events... Maybe even add some to lower level zones.
Make combat more reactive, add more skills that can only be used in certain situations..
you see, this would make the game a much better themepark game without trying to convert it in a totally new sandboxyer game
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I love how pepople on these forums completely forget thet SWG Pre NGE was bleeding subs at an alarming rate.
Yes, that is correct....your mecca of sandbox games was failing hard...NGE was a last ditch effort to save it. Granted, the NGE made the game a lot worse, but nothing can hide the fact that Pre NGE SWG was going downhill fast. If it came out today, its population would dwindle faster that SWTOR.
You're right but for totally the wrong reasons.
The game was bleeding subs not because it was the most advanced, easy-to-play, hard-to-learn MMORPG ever launched but because it was launched half-finished and then SOE immediately stopped development work on it - no combat balancing, no bug fixing, no regular patches etc.
With WoW, Blizzard taught the world that a successful MMORPG is constantly being developed, corrected, adjusted and renewed.
My entire point was that SWG pre CU/NGE was going down hill, I never gave a reason, so not sure how I had the wrong one.
You are absolutly correct though on why it was failing. I actually broke a 100$ mouse in anger (which was expensive for a mouse in 2004) while flying along in my speeder, then ending up in someone's house because the pop up was so bad....then had to wait for my tkt to be actioned by a GM before i could leave the dude's house...
And I quote..."And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million"
These numbers are from today....so basically, SWTOR stabilized at the sub numbers SWG had at its peak...The last thing SWTOR needs to help it grow is to copy SWG.
And I quote..."And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million"
These numbers are from today....so basically, SWTOR stabilized at the sub numbers SWG had at its peak...The last thing SWTOR needs to help it grow is to copy SWG.
Tough luck indeed...
That's just pr talk.. The amount of subs could be 300,000 and they would still say just under half a million. They would give us a number if it was otherwise.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Comments
That's great. SWG did not fail. So go play the game then. Since it didn't fail, it is still running right?
This is the point people are trying to make. There is no reason to get all defensive. Unlike most of the posters who are slamming SWTOR, people are not slamming SWG saying it was a bad game it just isn't this game, and not what this game is intended to be. Some of the suggestions just do not fit in a Themepark setting which is what this game is. Same as you do not go to McDonalds expecting to get waited at your table. Yes it is a restauarant, but that is not a feature found in Fast Food, it is a feature of a sit down. Not saying that one is better than other, they just fit needs. As far as the debate on game failure, games Fail for multiple reasons. Some games fail because they were just bad games and noone wanted to play. Some games fail because the market is oversaturated. Some games fail because there is a failure of communication between producers and backers. And some games fail because the management makes a poor decision and closes the game for whatever reasons.
When a game fails for one of the last 2 reason it is the hardest. In those instances games may be popular and thriving. This makes it difficult for the fans to accept that the game they loved failed. Again just because a game fails does not mean it is a bad game. It could be a great game, the best game that has ever been around. In the end it failed to keep running. They aren't saying it failed to be a good game. A lot aren't even saying that SWTOR didn't fail. A lot are agreeing that SWTOR DID fail to meet expectations. They aren't saying one is better than the other, they are saying that SWTOR is not SWG. There are people who like SWTOR and there are people that like SWG and that's ok. Same as there are people who like McDonalds and people who like Applebees. Just because you like Applebees it doesn't mean that McDonalds should be closed because it does not have the features that Applebees does. It does not mean that McDonalds should be closed down for not having those features. Nor does it mean Applebees should be closed either. People are not saying that SWG should have gone out of business. They are saying that it DID. Right or wrong it happened.
according to the suits, its just like highlander..THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE
so , until they make a wide range mmo, like wow or CoX, a lot of star wars fans
wil be disappointed
A) Death Star in swtor era makes little sense...
Only about 1-2 mil. And most of that was probably just due to old age, rather than desire for those players to play hardcore games. Although I do find it amusing when 'vanilla' WoW players think that WoW was somehow hardcore at launch. Yeah no. It never was.
hardcore? lol ...no,,but lesser casual, than now
and about age,,lets see, where swtor is in 7-8 years
A MMO shutting down should not always be viewed as failure in any sense. SWG did not fail in any way. It got shut down to make way for SWTOR - read my previous posts for explantion. A MMO that shut down due to failure would be like the Matrix, which ended up with about 2 servers and both dead. The same for Vanguard, which now only has one server, but SOE do not shut down MMOs easily. LA called the shots with SWG, and put all their eggs in one basket with SWTOR, and lost - BW is now just left with the name and a division within EA, what made Bioware great is no more, the main people have left the company. LA is now no more. I doubt BW and LA would be no more if SWTOR was the success it was - they would be basking in its glory otherwise being proud owners of a MMO that is as popular or more popular as WOW. At least SOE is still ticking and functioning and moving on and learning from their past mistakes and others etc.
SWG can still be played, just not officially. It was so great people put the effort into resurrecting it. I doubt people will do the same with SWTOR when it shuts down.
SWTOR failed from the get go, and is a failed active MMO, because they have no clue what they are doing, and the content that is being put in, was all mentioned a year or so ago, and nothing new since. There is no solid future for the game, but that does not mean it will shut down, just stay active as it is now, for however long, just adding more bits and pieces into the CM with nothing worthwhile or meaningful - basically paying a sub fee to a single player game that does not have monthly fee, but has occasional DLC to pay for.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
As a matter of fact, it is.
You sire, are not that smart.
You can't compare EVE to SWTOR.
You say SWTOR is much better then EVE....some stuff:
EVE has 1 server with 50k players on it at most times, SWTOR has server merges and peaking at 500-1000 tops
EVE is a sandbox, SWTOR is a bad themepark.
EVE is growing, SWTOR is dying
EVE is innovating, SWTOR is copying.
I Like Star Wars VERY much, but you comparing the best sandbox to the worst themepark is just raping the whole mmo genre and showing that you have actually no knowledge of these games.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
OP, SWTOR needed a lot of things that was brought up in beta by a few that really wanted to see improvements, but ignored by the devs, and fans of Bioware just made it worse by bum kissing them the whole beta pretending the game was the best thing since sliced bread.
Bioware devs had huge egos and ignored tester that brought up problems and design flaws.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Nobody is going to argue that SWTOR had a faster decline, but also dont forget that SWTOR had upwards of 5 times the population and server farm of SWG at SWG's peak. If you want to compare the 2 that way also, why are you leaving out the part about SWTOR ending up keeping around 500k subs, you know the same (or more so ) that SWG had at SWG's peak concurrent subs (dont quote the "million boxes sold" piece, SOE confirned their highest concurrent sub numbers were around 500k).
All i'm pointing out is that the last thing SWTOR needs, is to mimic another SW MMO that was bleeding subs as well. Take off your rose colored glasses, SWG was in decline long before CU/NGE,
Good post Brody, Totally Agree.
If you even played SWG PRE NGE you would know it started with the Combat Upgrade, and just how many people loved that game before these things were implemented, and how well it was doing until the NGE completely ruined everything in the game and more than half of the community left. I was there in the forums right when they put out the NGE and there were hundreds if not thousands of posts flooding the forums of really pissed off customers. Apperantly you were not there when The New Game Enhancements were implemented in November 2005. The Major changes included the reduction and simplification of professions, simplification of gameplay mechanics, and Jedi becoming a starting profession.. The NGE ruined SWG, it Buried it. Everyone that played SWG like it was there life knows this.
Did I say nobody liked SWG pre CU/NGE? No. I stated a historacle fact, that it was in decline, and the CU/NGE were a last ditch effort to save it. Stop, just utterly stop rewriting history. This is 100% undebatable fact.
With that said, they utterly broke the game with the CU/NGE, but that doesnt change the fact that it was declining before that. Your entire post is literally arguning that NGE/CU was hated by the masses...something I agree with and never debated. No amount of walls of texts, or claiming im ignorant can change the facts my friend.
SWTOR had 2 million subs from the several years of hype from EA/BW, not from the game itself. If the game was half a success and good enough for 10 years as what EA said it would last before launch, then it should have maintained 1 mill subs for at least a year. People who bought it knew there would be a $15 monthly fee, and expected to play it for years, with some paying for a years worth subscription too. Many people invested loads into the game, and they were either subbed as took out lengthy subscriptions but were not playing, or just endured it, so as not to make the money spent on it a waste.
If the game did not go F2P, it would probably be deader than SWG in its final days in Dec 2012.
Now the number of subs are not known, since it went F2P. They probably got a few new subs when it F2P but chances are they will go preferred after playing through a couple of characters. There is not enough stuff in game to keep people playing or subbing long term, unlike SWG, even the NGE version.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
And yet the only healthy growing MMOs are hardcore ones...
which ones? EVE havent even reached the ½ mio mark yet,,after almost a decade
yes, there is growth,,but healthy?
any third rate korean mmo will have better numbers, than that, right from launch
but, unlike EVE, they will lose most of them in the following months
hardcore mmos are niche games, they cant possibly generate the income
of mainstream mmos
the devs know that, and budget the games accordingly
swtor is a good example of wrong budget,,they made a semi-hardcore game on a mainstream budget
now, how did that work out?
you call him ignorant and dumb?
you liked swg,,that is your right, but the devs had the actual numbers
do you really think, they would do such a drastic thing, if it wasnt NECESSARY?
its easy for you to say "the game is doing fine", but if your paycheck was depending on it ,
you would prolly look at the actual budget first
or maybe you wouldnt
so,,EVE is so unique, that it basically breaks the law of physics?
yes you can compare them, and you have to, since they are in the same business
when testing cars, some parameters are the same for all categories,,top speed, mileage, etc.
they use the same rules for a sports car, and a truck
You're right but for totally the wrong reasons.
The game was bleeding subs not because it was the most advanced, easy-to-play, hard-to-learn MMORPG ever launched but because it was launched half-finished and then SOE immediately stopped development work on it - no combat balancing, no bug fixing, no regular patches etc.
With WoW, Blizzard taught the world that a successful MMORPG is constantly being developed, corrected, adjusted and renewed.
Proof? No? Tough luck
Irony is that SWTOR wasnt/isnt doing any better than SWG pre CU/NGE, in fact in relative numbers SWTOR failed on few orders of magnitude harder than SWG (investment/retention....)
And i dont even care for SWG, never did.
Every player is different, and likes different things... For me there are other things important then the OP. Personally i think this is the most immersive story MMO ever.
So what would i add.
Replace the space combat with something fun..
Make your ships customisable and add trophies to the game that can be used to make your ship look like a home.
Character progress stops at max level, they need to add a good AA system that allows for more character differentation at max level and beyound
More stories and planets at max level, the strong point of this game is the class and player stories, add new chapters available for all players at max level.
More content, personally i would love to see player generated content... But this will probably never be done with the lousy hero engine.. But player created flashpoints could be awesome.
A 3rd neutral fraction starting at the end of your class based story. You can either join a neutral faction or even switch sides.
more attention for the openworld PvP zones.. Give some PvP quests and goals to give people a reason to PvP in these zones.
more types of PvP instances.
Add new zones and planets with dynamic events... Maybe even add some to lower level zones.
Make combat more reactive, add more skills that can only be used in certain situations..
you see, this would make the game a much better themepark game without trying to convert it in a totally new sandboxyer game
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
My entire point was that SWG pre CU/NGE was going down hill, I never gave a reason, so not sure how I had the wrong one.
You are absolutly correct though on why it was failing. I actually broke a 100$ mouse in anger (which was expensive for a mouse in 2004) while flying along in my speeder, then ending up in someone's house because the pop up was so bad....then had to wait for my tkt to be actioned by a GM before i could leave the dude's house...
Ask, and ye shall receive.
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/7/4309866/star-wars-the-old-republic-revenue-doubled-free-to-play
And I quote..."And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million"
These numbers are from today....so basically, SWTOR stabilized at the sub numbers SWG had at its peak...The last thing SWTOR needs to help it grow is to copy SWG.
Tough luck indeed...
Star Wars Galaxies failed. People left in masses which put the game on life support till they had no choice but to pull the plug. LOL
Does anybody even care?
That's just pr talk.. The amount of subs could be 300,000 and they would still say just under half a million. They would give us a number if it was otherwise.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."