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Should we stop buying MMORPGs, and just wait til they go F2P?

13

Comments

  • tabindextabindex Rancho Cucamonga, CAPosts: 70Member
    Poor people should spend their time figuring out how to stop being poor instead of playing games they can't afford.

    We need more games with the EQ legends server model (a server where rich people don't have to be around poor people).


  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by tabindex
    Poor people should spend their time figuring out how to stop being poor instead of playing games they can't afford. We need more games with the EQ legends server model (a server where rich people don't have to be around poor people).

    This wrongly assume that affordability is the reason. The real reason is competition.

    If i can have fun with a free game, why should i pay anything? It is about whether i feel i am gettting good value, not whether i have $15 in my wallet.

     

  • tabindextabindex Rancho Cucamonga, CAPosts: 70Member
    Ok. Replace poor with cheap.
  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by Yamota

    No. We should stop playing F2P because the bussiness model is inherently bad for gaming. It allows you to take shortcuts, aka cheating, if you pay money.

    As a competetiver gamers we should reject such a notion completely.

     

    Why are you playing MMO's if you want competitive gaming? 

    Because MMOs, without a cash shop and where everyone starts the same, can be competetive.

    Granted we haven't had many of them lately but they used to be like that. Box price, sub fee and then it is all up to you. How skilled you are, how social you are and how persistent you are.

    But now it's all: Show me the money!

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by tabindex
    Ok. Replace poor with cheap.

    There is no reason to pay a cent if free gets you the same fun.  I would call it "not being suckered", but "cheap" will work too.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by tabindex
    Ok. Replace poor with cheap.

    I spend a lot more money on movies than on MMOs. Why? Because movies give me better entertainment value than shitty F2P MMOs.

    So if a game is worth it, I dont mind spending money. However a game which gives the upper hand to whoever spends the most is not worth it. It's inherently flawed.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by Yamota

    No. We should stop playing F2P because the bussiness model is inherently bad for gaming. It allows you to take shortcuts, aka cheating, if you pay money.

    As a competetiver gamers we should reject such a notion completely.

     

    Why are you playing MMO's if you want competitive gaming? 

    Because MMOs, without a cash shop and where everyone starts the same, can be competetive.

    Granted we haven't had many of them lately but they used to be like that. Box price, sub fee and then it is all up to you. How skilled you are, how social you are and how persistent you are.

    But now it's all: Show me the money!

     

    WoW has some pretty competitive PVP and PVE, but I never personally thought MMO's had much to do with competition at all. I suppose it's human nature to want to be better than other people, but I've never felt compelled to compete at anything in an MMO. Competition in MMO's is also mainly a function of time, and I've never been willing to spend the massive amount of time to compete. 

    When I think of competitive gaming, I think of SC2 or CoD or LoL. 

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by simsalabim77

    When I think of competitive gaming, I think of SC2 or CoD or LoL. 

    MMOs are epleen games (not truly skill competition). Otherwise, gearscore, wow-heroes, and stuff like that will not be so popular.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,736Member Uncommon

    You should do this if:

    1. You want fewer MMORPGs to be released.
    2. You want them to be produced with smaller budgets.
    3. You want them all to be F2P at launch.
    While #3 isn't necessarily bad (being able to try a product before paying is actually extremely good for gamers) the first two are really bad if you enjoy the genre.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Vorch

    I don't pay sub fees.

    And anyone who pays for a lifetime subscription (200+ USD) should expect their investment to be a donation to the company.

    Players like you have basically crippled the creative capacity of the industry.  By demanding not to have a sub fee, you've forced developers and publishers to spend more time trying to figure out how to nickle and dime people for a profit; time which could have been spent on making the game fun.

    You make me like charity

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt

    You should do this if:

    1. You want fewer MMORPGs to be released.
    2. You want them to be produced with smaller budgets.
    3. You want them all to be F2P at launch.
    While #3 isn't necessarily bad (being able to try a product before paying is actually extremely good for gamers) the first two are really bad if you enjoy the genre.

    (1) is plain wrong and contradict data. Players is clearly shifting to F2P, and we see MORE MMORPGs to be released, not fewer.

    (2) is correct, probably on average. However, while per game, there is less content (because of a smaller per game budget), there are so many games that it is moot. The amount of F2P game content is so huge that no one, at least not me, can consume it all in a reasonable time. (2) is only a bad thing if you want to stick with one game, and certainly many do not.

    (3) is correct, and like you say, not necessarily bad.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by Vorch

    I don't pay sub fees.

    And anyone who pays for a lifetime subscription (200+ USD) should expect their investment to be a donation to the company.

    Players like you have basically crippled the creative capacity of the industry.  By demanding not to have a sub fee, you've forced developers and publishers to spend more time trying to figure out how to nickle and dime people for a profit; time which could have been spent on making the game fun.

    As if i owe anything to the industry. If devs cannot make a game fun for me, i won't even be spending time with it.

    So yeah, the fact that many F2P is fun to me .. means that whatever they spend to nickle & dime people don't affect me at all. So tell me, why should i care?

  • Aldous.HuxleyAldous.Huxley Monticello, MNPosts: 418Member
    Personally, I've tried many F2P MMO's as well subscription based. If the pay model doesn't work, it's because the game was lacking something. It means the game missed the mark. People don't mind a sub if the game is that good. The problem is the games released recently have been sub par.

    The F2P model is a cash grab, imho. Games designed as such, in my eyes, are admitting by declaration that they are going to release a mediocre game.

    I've got high hopes for 2 pay models to be released that will hopefully bring us back to premium AAA gaming. Everquest Next™ & FFXIV ARR©.

    Cheers all.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    Hmm f2p games are a cash grab, despite that you do not need to pay any money up front.

    P2p games require payment upfront and are not a cash grab.  Interesting.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix GSPosts: 835Member Uncommon

    No box and F2P to a certain lvl.

    1 week trial wasn't good , trial should be limit of contents , not limit of play time

  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt

    You should do this if:

    1. You want fewer MMORPGs to be released.
    2. You want them to be produced with smaller budgets.
    3. You want them all to be F2P at launch.
    While #3 isn't necessarily bad (being able to try a product before paying is actually extremely good for gamers) the first two are really bad if you enjoy the genre.

    1. I don't think fewer MMOs is bad for the genre, considering the current muck we've got it. Go through the list of games on this site and tell me how many are actually good or worth playing. It might be just me, but I don't think the number is high. 

    2. I don't think MMORPGs are for small companies. They cost too much to make and they can't support them the way a larger company can. We've got endless Asian games that are filled with gold farmers, grinding, and poorly designed systems. I want them to be produced with larger budgets. At the very least, I want the game to be efficiently made. I don't need voice overs, I don't need million dollar movies or cutscenes. I need a game worth playing. This requires a large budget. This is why I support a subscription model. You support the company and players are all on equal footing. No pay to win, no suggestive or coercive cash shops. You sub, the game makes money, and we all go home happy.

    3. I want to be able to try the game and see if it's worth playing. I want to get past the hype and doctored videos and experience for myself. 

  • cybertruckercybertrucker Pensacola, FLPosts: 1,119Member
    Economics. I would like to suggest that all these people who want something or deserve a service for free should go study it.
  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Divion
    If on the game's launch anniversy it goes Free to Play, then you lost EVERYTHING you invested, as a new player can spend the treshold amount, and have basiclly the same account status as you, minus the progression you made.

    So...after paying for and watching a movie I would 'lose everything'?..

    You payed for fun and you got fun. You lost nothing.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by simsalabim77

    When I think of competitive gaming, I think of SC2 or CoD or LoL. 

    MMOs are epleen games (not truly skill competition). Otherwise, gearscore, wow-heroes, and stuff like that will not be so popular.

    you're looking at tools at very advanced players created to help others catch up and paint them evil...

     

    do you feel equally about all the 'how to' videos high-end guilds post on youtube ?

     

    because right next to you sits the guy saying "I can't play eve, I can't catch up with the vets, I can't play WoW, it's all cliques".

     

    being a dev and dealing with both of you at once must require serious sado-masochism...

    image

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac


    The F2P model is a cash grab, imho.

    Really?

    F2P has so far "grabbed" zero of my cash.

    P2P has so far "grabbed" quite a bit of my cash before i quit for good.

    So .. which model is the cash grab? The one which got money from me, or the one that did not?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by simsalabim77

    When I think of competitive gaming, I think of SC2 or CoD or LoL. 

    MMOs are epleen games (not truly skill competition). Otherwise, gearscore, wow-heroes, and stuff like that will not be so popular.

    you're looking at tools at very advanced players created to help others catch up and paint them evil...

     

    do you feel equally about all the 'how to' videos high-end guilds post on youtube ?

     

    because right next to you sits the guy saying "I can't play eve, I can't catch up with the vets, I can't play WoW, it's all cliques".

     

    being a dev and dealing with both of you at once must require serious sado-masochism...

    hmm who says epleen is evil? I said they are popular, and nothing else.

    In fact, gearscore is a good tool. You get to know if the guy going into the dungeon with you won't cut it with his gear, and you can kick him fast.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,736Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Destai

    1. I don't think fewer MMOs is bad for the genre, considering the current muck we've got it. Go through the list of games on this site and tell me how many are actually good or worth playing. It might be just me, but I don't think the number is high. 

    2. I don't think MMORPGs are for small companies. They cost too much to make and they can't support them the way a larger company can. We've got endless Asian games that are filled with gold farmers, grinding, and poorly designed systems. I want them to be produced with larger budgets. At the very least, I want the game to be efficiently made. I don't need voice overs, I don't need million dollar movies or cutscenes. I need a game worth playing. This requires a large budget. This is why I support a subscription model. You support the company and players are all on equal footing. No pay to win, no suggestive or coercive cash shops. You sub, the game makes money, and we all go home happy.

    3. I want to be able to try the game and see if it's worth playing. I want to get past the hype and doctored videos and experience for myself. 

    1. 80% of everything is crap.  Fewer MMOs means fewer bad MMOs but it also means fewer good ones.

    2. MMORPGs are hard to produce with smaller budgets. That compounds problem #1 of course, and conflicts with your desire to have them produced with larger budgets.  Although I'm not sure I'd say a game worth playing requires a larger budget.  A fantastic but small-budget MMO is definitely possible; but it's going to be a different type of game than a typical content-centric AAA MMORPG.

    3. Right that's the strength of the business model for sure: try before you buy, and don't reward companies for marketing but for actual gameplay.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,736Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    (1) is plain wrong and contradict data. Players is clearly shifting to F2P, and we see MORE MMORPGs to be released, not fewer. 

    Um, no.  

    Let's say 20% of MMORPGs continue to release as P2P.

    Let's say somehow this thread convinces everyone to stop buying MMORPGs while they're P2P, waiting til they're F2P.

    Now you'll have 2-3 MMORPGs which cost $100+ million to produce which sell nothing at launch.  These games wouldn't have the funds remaining after massively failed launches to make the switch to F2P, nor would they see a business reason to make the switch because they have a game with no sales.

    Players are shifting to F2P, but that doesn't contradict the fact that if players quit buying P2P games at launch, cold turkey, the MMO industry will feel that pretty harshly.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    Have any of the p2p games that have gone free to play switched over and not given the sub players something that compensates them for being there all that time ?

    When tera switched what they gave the founders if you were to buy it from the cash shop after would be worth more than $60 ( well it would cost more :P ) And most of it was pretty nice. I sure didn't feel screwed over by that transition and the game was better off free to play.

     

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    If a game converts to a cash shop, it's dead to me.
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