Originally posted by Sk1ppeR I hope you realize that Gw2's maximum level is 80. Talking about endgame at lv 60 is a joke and I will not take your thread seriously.... Not to mention that you don't recognize Gw2 for what it is and how it's combat is light years ahead of WoW. The combat ... the thing you are doing the whole time in a MMO
I have a level 80 Engineer. I was merely stating that starting at 60 the game began to show its weaknesses which would lead to me quitting within a week of hitting 80.
By the way, I will argue to the grave that GW2's combat is awful. You use so few abilities and they aren't enjoyable to use. It's like it wanted to be like League of Legends but didn't know how.
You used an engineer and had too few abilities?
yea, OK.
Engineer and Elementalist are really the only exception. Unfortunately, the abilities don't synergize well and aren't satisfying to use.
That's cool that you enjoy it. I wish I still did. My 4.5/5 review is on Metacritic and I stand by my argument that the game did a lot of things right, endgame and dungeons just aren't one of them.
I'm with the crowd that states your first MMO will be the only one you'll ever truly love. I played some small asian MMOs before but WoW was my first real one. I played it in beta, and I think the first 3 years or so after release. Came back a few time, it was always special and fun.
My first true MMO was Final Fantasy XI. Although I have fond memories of exploring its world and playing with others it isn't even close to touching how much I loved WoW, a game I didn't play until more than a year and a half later.
In other words, your hypothesis isn't true.
you clearly got deeper into WoW's eldergames than FFXI though. it is far more accessible.
Perhaps, but why should I feel guilty for a game executing well? What game do you play?
OP, WoW was your true coming out party in MMO. your first GREAT love which you conquered, made yours and knew every inch of. You didn't get into FFXI the way you did in WoW, and that's no big mystery. same for many people(acessibility).
there's people that feel that way about other games and were cold to WoW. it's your moma duck, that's all.
Originally posted by JonnyBigBoss Yeah. I'd say Rift is the best MMO since WoW. Unfortunately, it reminds me too much of it and while several people I know play WoW, none play Rift. You can't even find people streaming it on Twitch because it is so unpopular.
So basically, all of these other games are bad because they do things differently than WoW, but then Rift is bad because it's too much like WoW? No wonder you can't find a game you like.
you shouldn't feel guilty, i'm just trying to explain the explosion of emotion and euphoria that color your words with bias. and everybody in this topic is right, you will NEVER love aMMO like you loved WoW, and it's NOT gonna be for their quality.
PS: RIFT sucks, and TRION sucks. they copied wholesale from SOE and Blizzard and merely did a decent job. all the features in RIFT that aren't Xeroxed out of EQ2 and WoW are horrible(class builds, their 3 way pvp thing) and their stand alone non-clone product is one of the worst MMO's in the last 5 years.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Sk1ppeR I hope you realize that Gw2's maximum level is 80. Talking about endgame at lv 60 is a joke and I will not take your thread seriously.... Not to mention that you don't recognize Gw2 for what it is and how it's combat is light years ahead of WoW. The combat ... the thing you are doing the whole time in a MMO
I have a level 80 Engineer. I was merely stating that starting at 60 the game began to show its weaknesses which would lead to me quitting within a week of hitting 80.
By the way, I will argue to the grave that GW2's combat is awful. You use so few abilities and they aren't enjoyable to use. It's like it wanted to be like League of Legends but didn't know how.
You used an engineer and had too few abilities?
yea, OK.
Engineer and Elementalist are really the only exception. Unfortunately, the abilities don't synergize well and aren't satisfying to use.
That's cool that you enjoy it. I wish I still did. My 4.5/5 review is on Metacritic and I stand by my argument that the game did a lot of things right, endgame and dungeons just aren't one of them.
That's true, engineers skills keep getting iterazied for the worse... I'm not sure why tho, it's like they're punishing the class and making it play worse and worse xD
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
I'm with the crowd that states your first MMO will be the only one you'll ever truly love.
I used to think like that. In fact, I was one of the, "bring back the golden days" of MMOs. I started with UO, and then Everquest and DAoC.
I wanted it all back, until something happened.
I went back and read some of my old journals.
I've been keeping journals for years and have mentioned MMOs in some of my entries. Actually, in a lot of my entries. I'm here to tell you they were rarely positive.
I'd forgotten about how frustrating those games were, how many lag issues, crashes, freezes, and balance problems. I started to wonder if I had any fun at all, since my words didn't support my memories.
By the time I finished reading, i realized:
I'd rather scoop my eyes out with a spoon than play early UO again.
I'd rather bang my head repeatedly on a wall than play Everquest in the early days.
I'd rather stick a fork in an electrical outlet than play DAoC, pre ToA again.
TL;DR ... I threw away my rose-colored glasses.
I think WoW became popular because it was fun and started to improve on those awful problems present in UO, EQ, and DAoC.
WoW doesn't do anything stellar, but it does do everything in an acceptable manner. Not great. Acceptable.
Games like Rift and GW2 have tried to outdo aspects of WoW and in the process, have ingored other aspects of their games. A game that does only one thing well won't be fun for very long. I really think that is why WoW succeeds where others have failed. I'll keep playing WoW until something somes along and oudoes everything I love about WoW. It hasn't happened yet.
It is better. It is also so much harder for the average bear to get into. If only people knew how damned easy it is to get started in that game these days.
It is better. It is also so much harder for the average bear to get into. If only people knew how damned easy it is to get started in that game these days.
I'd love to go back to but even on my Mac Pro with a Sapphire HD 7950 3GB card that poorly implemented Cider port runs like crap. CCP should be ashamed. Even GW2's shitty port runs better than Eve.
Interesting thread. I started WoW for the first time in Sept 2012. I absolutely love it. I can agree with the arguments of lack of 'immerision' / 'lore' but its not non-existent. Lore is there if you have the patience to look for it. I have played EQ, EQ2, SWTOR, DCUO, and a slew of F2P looking for that fit... only to find out it was WoW for me.
The combat is tab-target but (as a hunter) I have mobility while fighting which I find is tighter than the GW2 combat. I have 4 chars in GW2 and I personally cant commit myself to login. But Im also the type of gamer who likes to progress achievements and WoW seems to have this in spades. I like all the side/mini games (pet battles, archeology, etc) that you can take part in. The tools available work for me. I love LFG and cant wait to try LFR.
I have limited playtime do to my responsibilities as parent and executive, and WoW gives me the perfect bit size gaming that just happens to work for me. I level fast but not too fast that I feel its a breeze. The environments are varied (I just made it to TBC content - not liking it, but appreciate its diversity from vanilla). The dungeon runs which I can quest while queue'd are fun. I appreciate the whimisical design as it brings me back to my 16bit RPG days.
I guess I'm addicted to the gear grind as it doesn't bother me. I like looking for the next upgrade for my character and seeing him progress over time. Not to mention the plethora of systems I haven't even begun to look into, understand or not high enough level to experience (Im 64 now). Guildmates just mailed me a bunch of glyphs. Have to read up on that. Transmorphigation (or whatever its called) I dont think I can even do yet.
I hate PvP but find myself in battlegrounds... again because its easy to jump into and fun to play. I am not good at it but have noticed improvement in my skill simply from repition.
So I agree with the Op. I haven't found a game that delivers everything I experienced above in one package. Or better yet that could keep me conciously logging in every day.
To be fair, perhaps when I reach max level I will get bored... but honestly don't think so with all the options that are available in Pandaria.
For an MMO to work it has nothing to do with age, how much money was spent, quality, etc - but more so has to 'click' with the gamer, and this one clicked with me.
Because in the end I have to believe the reason why we play is to have fun .. and thats subjective to each of us.
its preciesly because of the nine 9 years.. most MMO's don't have that long to get things right. WoW Vanila had real issues, so did BC.. in fact most WoW issues didn't get sorted until Cataclysm but most people forget those issues.
I think also most companies have opted to try and 'be the next WoW' rather than trying to innovate and do something different. Even Arenanet with Guild Wars 2, is in reality just another everquest clone, despite some radical improvements with flow and combat dynamics.
The next big thing, just hasn't really happened. Instead we have a real Golden Age of gaming, where no single title dominates. Instead we have unprecidented choice and AAA titles aplenty.
There are real signs of the genre maturing, and instead of being a derivative niche that it has been in the last 12-15 years, instead we are seeing all types of genre adding 'MMO' to them.
For me, there is no longer a 'next big one' because the genre is bursting.
BUT.. I think we may have one title that might just do something different and might just be huge..and its Marvel Heros.
I'll be honest, I love EVE but find it boring. I think GW2 is great but it doesn't have the lasting power I'm looking for. Right now I'm enjoying Neverwinter and just wish it had a better presentation.
If you are unhappy here, you are welcome to hang out elsewhere....
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
@OP why dont you just stick to playing wow? They are cranking out more content now than ever and there game is better than every other game out there. If you find yourself just floating around, then log out and go for a bike rideor a walk. The best mmo in the world and that was ever created will still be waiting for you when you get back.
Originally posted by Raventree Have you tried Rift? I played WoW for 5 years, but after I switched to Rift I never wanted to go back. It is similar enough that it doesn't feel weird to make the switch and the graphics are way better.
Rift was all right, just the PvP was pretty terrible when I played. Like WoW's PvP wasn't great, but Rift's was like "Wow... that's god awful."
Guild Wars 2 was all right, I just think it's the most dumbed down PvP I've ever played in an MMO. It has to be, since you have like 7 skills on cooldowns that are way too long AND no healers.
Originally posted by KingofHartz @OP why dont you just stick to playing wow? They are cranking out more content now than ever and there game is better than every other game out there. If you find yourself just floating around, then log out and go for a bike rideor a walk. The best mmo in the world and that was ever created will still be waiting for you when you get back.
It's aging. I love the gameplay but can't become immersed in the world anymore.
Originally posted by JonnyBigBoss It's aging. I love the gameplay but can't become immersed in the world anymore.
"XXXX was your favorite game ever, why don't you still play it?" "OMGSooDated"
"So you'd rather play nothing at all, or inferior substitutes, and just gripe about it?" "Yes, yes I would."
Welcome to MMO veteran-hood. You have all of the necessary qualfications.
T-shirts are available in the mmorpg.com gift shop.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
OP Dunno how you came to the idea that Wow was the only long standing MMO but as libraofdoom has pointed out this pisses over Wow in more ways that one. You need a brain to play Eve unlike Wow you just need a low end PC and two hands.
I'm sure that as Eve grows stronger and grows yearly it will remain the top MMO out in the market place as long as it continues to Eve-olve like it has.
Comments
Engineer and Elementalist are really the only exception. Unfortunately, the abilities don't synergize well and aren't satisfying to use.
That's cool that you enjoy it. I wish I still did. My 4.5/5 review is on Metacritic and I stand by my argument that the game did a lot of things right, endgame and dungeons just aren't one of them.
Perhaps, but why should I feel guilty for a game executing well? What game do you play?
OP, WoW was your true coming out party in MMO. your first GREAT love which you conquered, made yours and knew every inch of. You didn't get into FFXI the way you did in WoW, and that's no big mystery. same for many people(acessibility).
there's people that feel that way about other games and were cold to WoW. it's your moma duck, that's all.
So basically, all of these other games are bad because they do things differently than WoW, but then Rift is bad because it's too much like WoW? No wonder you can't find a game you like.
you shouldn't feel guilty, i'm just trying to explain the explosion of emotion and euphoria that color your words with bias. and everybody in this topic is right, you will NEVER love aMMO like you loved WoW, and it's NOT gonna be for their quality.
PS: RIFT sucks, and TRION sucks. they copied wholesale from SOE and Blizzard and merely did a decent job. all the features in RIFT that aren't Xeroxed out of EQ2 and WoW are horrible(class builds, their 3 way pvp thing) and their stand alone non-clone product is one of the worst MMO's in the last 5 years.
ER, since you're hanging out here,I guess you're part of said crowd then?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That's true, engineers skills keep getting iterazied for the worse... I'm not sure why tho, it's like they're punishing the class and making it play worse and worse xD
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
I used to think like that. In fact, I was one of the, "bring back the golden days" of MMOs. I started with UO, and then Everquest and DAoC.
I wanted it all back, until something happened.
I went back and read some of my old journals.
I've been keeping journals for years and have mentioned MMOs in some of my entries. Actually, in a lot of my entries. I'm here to tell you they were rarely positive.
I'd forgotten about how frustrating those games were, how many lag issues, crashes, freezes, and balance problems. I started to wonder if I had any fun at all, since my words didn't support my memories.
By the time I finished reading, i realized:
I'd rather scoop my eyes out with a spoon than play early UO again.
I'd rather bang my head repeatedly on a wall than play Everquest in the early days.
I'd rather stick a fork in an electrical outlet than play DAoC, pre ToA again.
TL;DR ... I threw away my rose-colored glasses.
I think WoW became popular because it was fun and started to improve on those awful problems present in UO, EQ, and DAoC.
WoW doesn't do anything stellar, but it does do everything in an acceptable manner. Not great. Acceptable.
Games like Rift and GW2 have tried to outdo aspects of WoW and in the process, have ingored other aspects of their games. A game that does only one thing well won't be fun for very long. I really think that is why WoW succeeds where others have failed. I'll keep playing WoW until something somes along and oudoes everything I love about WoW. It hasn't happened yet.
Entertainment value.
Cynical Vet reporting in. Where are the good MMOs at? OH YEA THERE ARE NONE!
(time to do some spreadsheets)
So you're playing Eve then?
Amen!
It is older.
It is better.
It is better. It is also so much harder for the average bear to get into. If only people knew how damned easy it is to get started in that game these days.
I'd love to go back to but even on my Mac Pro with a Sapphire HD 7950 3GB card that poorly implemented Cider port runs like crap. CCP should be ashamed. Even GW2's shitty port runs better than Eve.
Interesting thread. I started WoW for the first time in Sept 2012. I absolutely love it. I can agree with the arguments of lack of 'immerision' / 'lore' but its not non-existent. Lore is there if you have the patience to look for it. I have played EQ, EQ2, SWTOR, DCUO, and a slew of F2P looking for that fit... only to find out it was WoW for me.
The combat is tab-target but (as a hunter) I have mobility while fighting which I find is tighter than the GW2 combat. I have 4 chars in GW2 and I personally cant commit myself to login. But Im also the type of gamer who likes to progress achievements and WoW seems to have this in spades. I like all the side/mini games (pet battles, archeology, etc) that you can take part in. The tools available work for me. I love LFG and cant wait to try LFR.
I have limited playtime do to my responsibilities as parent and executive, and WoW gives me the perfect bit size gaming that just happens to work for me. I level fast but not too fast that I feel its a breeze. The environments are varied (I just made it to TBC content - not liking it, but appreciate its diversity from vanilla). The dungeon runs which I can quest while queue'd are fun. I appreciate the whimisical design as it brings me back to my 16bit RPG days.
I guess I'm addicted to the gear grind as it doesn't bother me. I like looking for the next upgrade for my character and seeing him progress over time. Not to mention the plethora of systems I haven't even begun to look into, understand or not high enough level to experience (Im 64 now). Guildmates just mailed me a bunch of glyphs. Have to read up on that. Transmorphigation (or whatever its called) I dont think I can even do yet.
I hate PvP but find myself in battlegrounds... again because its easy to jump into and fun to play. I am not good at it but have noticed improvement in my skill simply from repition.
So I agree with the Op. I haven't found a game that delivers everything I experienced above in one package. Or better yet that could keep me conciously logging in every day.
To be fair, perhaps when I reach max level I will get bored... but honestly don't think so with all the options that are available in Pandaria.
For an MMO to work it has nothing to do with age, how much money was spent, quality, etc - but more so has to 'click' with the gamer, and this one clicked with me.
Because in the end I have to believe the reason why we play is to have fun .. and thats subjective to each of us.
its preciesly because of the nine 9 years.. most MMO's don't have that long to get things right. WoW Vanila had real issues, so did BC.. in fact most WoW issues didn't get sorted until Cataclysm but most people forget those issues.
I think also most companies have opted to try and 'be the next WoW' rather than trying to innovate and do something different. Even Arenanet with Guild Wars 2, is in reality just another everquest clone, despite some radical improvements with flow and combat dynamics.
The next big thing, just hasn't really happened. Instead we have a real Golden Age of gaming, where no single title dominates. Instead we have unprecidented choice and AAA titles aplenty.
There are real signs of the genre maturing, and instead of being a derivative niche that it has been in the last 12-15 years, instead we are seeing all types of genre adding 'MMO' to them.
For me, there is no longer a 'next big one' because the genre is bursting.
BUT.. I think we may have one title that might just do something different and might just be huge..and its Marvel Heros.
If you are unhappy here, you are welcome to hang out elsewhere....
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
But its poor at pvp
And its really poor at crafting.
Rift was all right, just the PvP was pretty terrible when I played. Like WoW's PvP wasn't great, but Rift's was like "Wow... that's god awful."
Guild Wars 2 was all right, I just think it's the most dumbed down PvP I've ever played in an MMO. It has to be, since you have like 7 skills on cooldowns that are way too long AND no healers.
It's aging. I love the gameplay but can't become immersed in the world anymore.
"XXXX was your favorite game ever, why don't you still play it?" "OMGSooDated"
"So you'd rather play nothing at all, or inferior substitutes, and just gripe about it?" "Yes, yes I would."
Welcome to MMO veteran-hood. You have all of the necessary qualfications.
T-shirts are available in the mmorpg.com gift shop.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Nah, watching hipsters derp themselves into a frenzy is too much fun...
Thanks for the advice though.
OP Dunno how you came to the idea that Wow was the only long standing MMO but as libraofdoom has pointed out this pisses over Wow in more ways that one. You need a brain to play Eve unlike Wow you just need a low end PC and two hands.
I'm sure that as Eve grows stronger and grows yearly it will remain the top MMO out in the market place as long as it continues to Eve-olve like it has.
Still guess that's why most people who play Wow cannot see any other games around as they are blinkered. BUT if you really had any kind of bottle you should try the trail https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=99b7cb68-c470-41e9-8301-f171772df474&action=buddy and then pop back and leave comments on what you learned about Eve.
Bandit
Asbo