What I found disturbing more than people getting upset by the thread spam was the people that would cry out that the mods hated CU and they had an agenda against it. They claimed the mods created a culture of trolls. They blamed them for not allowing them to "attack the trolls." It got really ugly there more than a few times.
This is a tactic I warned MMORPG.com about... and I have some really interesting links on it... which I probably shouldn't post 13861848 / 4182013
Let's just say that what goes on in forums is often governed by moderators. The problem that often occurs in developer forums is there is a tendancy to support the 'fans' (because after all - they are saying nice things!) at the expense of the critics. The problem is, IMHO, in game development you need those critics.
So what I have seen in the past is the Developer Forums became a haven for the 'fans' and MMORPG.com forum became a haven for the 'trolls' (critics).
For what it's worth, I want our backers to voice their concerns/disagreements. I was in the comment section last night and I told the folks that we will have a strict "Don't be a jackass" policy. I will apply it to anyone who is not helping things along. I want to hear opinions from all sides but what I don't want nor will I tolerate, people flaming each other, us, making threats, sexual suggestions towards CSE staff, etc. Critics != Trolls usually. I just will not tolerate rude behavior on our developer forums.
These aren't just alpha/beta testers, these are the people funding your game.
While strong insults and abusive behaviour etc Im sure no one can have any real complaints with, you can't stop them complaining....they are paying for this game to be made, you have to listen to them. Gag them at your peril, you asked them for money, you have to put up with a certain amount more than you'd usually tolerate.
Caution about overly strong forum moderation, it could be the death of your game before it ever reaches beta.
There is so much wrong in that reply, I don't even know where to begin.
I'lle just TL;DR: Rude behaviour should never be tolerated.
For what it's worth, I want our backers to voice their concerns/disagreements. I was in the comment section last night and I told the folks that we will have a strict "Don't be a jackass" policy. I will apply it to anyone who is not helping things along. I want to hear opinions from all sides but what I don't want nor will I tolerate, people flaming each other, us, making threats, sexual suggestions towards CSE staff, etc. Critics != Trolls usually. I just will not tolerate rude behavior on our developer forums.
These aren't just alpha/beta testers, these are the people funding your game.
While strong insults and abusive behaviour etc Im sure no one can have any real complaints with, you can't stop them complaining....they are paying for this game to be made, you have to listen to them. Gag them at your peril, you asked them for money, you have to put up with a certain amount more than you'd usually tolerate.
Caution about overly strong forum moderation, it could be the death of your game before it ever reaches beta.
Being a backer doesn't mean a person has the right to be a jerk.
Complaints are going to happen and he's hardly talking about gagging people
This game is going to succeed or fail not based on forum moderation. This game will suceed or fail based on how well its designed.
I'm also looking forward to the backer forums. I eagerly look for the day I can escape from the cesspool of trolls that fester here. It wasn't always a bad place to discuss, but when it started and the moderators issued warnings/bans against people that weren't trolling or baiting it formed a very bad taste in a large percentage of the CU fan base that posted here.
Then, of course, was the constant back and forth between the loyalists, realists/concerned posters and the trolls. I'll probably never look back.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
One thing I hope Mark will keep in mind is that just like here and on the Kickstarter comments, only a small percentage of the founders will participate heavily in the official forums. When he needs feedback on major design decisions, he needs to make sure he is also reaching those people who won't treat the forums as a second job. Whether that means emailing all 15,000 people a poll or at least emailing them to let them know they should go to the forum and respond to a poll or post or something else, he needs to get feedback beyond the few dozen or hundred people that will be posting on the official forum every day.
Originally posted by meddyck One thing I hope Mark will keep in mind is that just like here and on the Kickstarter comments, only a small percentage of the founders will participate heavily in the official forums. When he needs feedback on major design decisions, he needs to make sure he is also reaching those people who won't treat the forums as a second job. Whether that means emailing all 15,000 people a poll or at least emailing them to let them know they should go to the forum and respond to a poll or post or something else, he needs to get feedback beyond the few dozen or hundred people that will be posting on the official forum every day.
That's a very good point, meddyck!
The number of folks discussing any of the current topics is a very small minority of the total number of backers. Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the most grease, but I expect CSE will see beyond simple forum "volume" and take a more holistic view of backer's desires in concert with what works well with lore, what is technically feasible and what provides for the most satisifying gameplay.
Originally posted by meddyck One thing I hope Mark will keep in mind is that just like here and on the Kickstarter comments, only a small percentage of the founders will participate heavily in the official forums. When he needs feedback on major design decisions, he needs to make sure he is also reaching those people who won't treat the forums as a second job. Whether that means emailing all 15,000 people a poll or at least emailing them to let them know they should go to the forum and respond to a poll or post or something else, he needs to get feedback beyond the few dozen or hundred people that will be posting on the official forum every day.
Well said, Meddyck.
I don't post often on the kickstarter comments, but if you visit once or twice a day over seven days you'll quickly realize that there's only a few very active members constantly posting there. Out of the 130,000 comments now, some users with newly created kickstarter accounts already have 2,000-5,000 comments just discussing CU and randomy chatter on the comments section.
I sincerely hope CSE actively seeks feedback from more than just the dedicated few that spend a tremendous amount of time on the forums; although I agree with nice percentage of the folks that constantly post there, I feel pretty confident that Mark/CSE isn't dumb enough to just listen to their extremely loyal fanbase.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
Originally posted by meddyck One thing I hope Mark will keep in mind is that just like here and on the Kickstarter comments, only a small percentage of the founders will participate heavily in the official forums. When he needs feedback on major design decisions, he needs to make sure he is also reaching those people who won't treat the forums as a second job. Whether that means emailing all 15,000 people a poll or at least emailing them to let them know they should go to the forum and respond to a poll or post or something else, he needs to get feedback beyond the few dozen or hundred people that will be posting on the official forum every day.
Well said, Meddyck.
I don't post often on the kickstarter comments, but if you visit once or twice a day over seven days you'll quickly realize that there's only a few very active members constantly posting there. Out of the 130,000 comments now, some users with newly created kickstarter accounts already have 2,000-5,000 comments just discussing CU and randomy chatter on the comments section.
I sincerely hope CSE actively seeks feedback from more than just the dedicated few that spend a tremendous amount of time on the forums; although I agree with nice percentage of the folks that constantly post there, I feel pretty confident that Mark/CSE isn't dumb enough to just listen to their extremely loyal fanbase.
I couldnt agree more, as actual college instructor I have too much time on my hands but even I find the virtual squatting of some CU backers to be distrubing.
In particular, what I especially hope they do is to basically let the inital crap storm of the summer ride and moderate only enough to keep the flame wars low.
However, its during IT and Alpha that I hope MJ/CSE takes a methodical approach to evaluation feedback using tools such as sentiment/lingustic analysis, open ended surveys and online focus groups.
Comments
There is so much wrong in that reply, I don't even know where to begin.
I'lle just TL;DR: Rude behaviour should never be tolerated.
Being a backer doesn't mean a person has the right to be a jerk.
Complaints are going to happen and he's hardly talking about gagging people
This game is going to succeed or fail not based on forum moderation. This game will suceed or fail based on how well its designed.
I'm also looking forward to the backer forums. I eagerly look for the day I can escape from the cesspool of trolls that fester here. It wasn't always a bad place to discuss, but when it started and the moderators issued warnings/bans against people that weren't trolling or baiting it formed a very bad taste in a large percentage of the CU fan base that posted here.
Then, of course, was the constant back and forth between the loyalists, realists/concerned posters and the trolls. I'll probably never look back.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
That's a very good point, meddyck!
The number of folks discussing any of the current topics is a very small minority of the total number of backers. Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the most grease, but I expect CSE will see beyond simple forum "volume" and take a more holistic view of backer's desires in concert with what works well with lore, what is technically feasible and what provides for the most satisifying gameplay.
Well said, Meddyck.
I don't post often on the kickstarter comments, but if you visit once or twice a day over seven days you'll quickly realize that there's only a few very active members constantly posting there. Out of the 130,000 comments now, some users with newly created kickstarter accounts already have 2,000-5,000 comments just discussing CU and randomy chatter on the comments section.
I sincerely hope CSE actively seeks feedback from more than just the dedicated few that spend a tremendous amount of time on the forums; although I agree with nice percentage of the folks that constantly post there, I feel pretty confident that Mark/CSE isn't dumb enough to just listen to their extremely loyal fanbase.
In particular, what I especially hope they do is to basically let the inital crap storm of the summer ride and moderate only enough to keep the flame wars low.
However, its during IT and Alpha that I hope MJ/CSE takes a methodical approach to evaluation feedback using tools such as sentiment/lingustic analysis, open ended surveys and online focus groups.