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which "free to play" game was worst scam for you?

135

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  • SwampDragonsSwampDragons KavlingePosts: 324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

    one more point about said "f2p": they scam players for 1000s of $ and feel good as they don't have much cost for maintenance, support, development and such.

    most sells you might or final gear upgrades for astronomical prices, some sells you even more (mount, tele etc useful stuff).

    I must admit, it very hard to calculate correct costs of such upgrades or even final cost of your gaming.

    I hope we can discuss freely here, and our minds are not controlled by "f2p" scam companies.

    To me worst was Runes of Magic. Nice and friendly at beta game, turned fast into money sucking disaster. Someone made calcs for final gear cost (before 2x lvl cap up), and it was min 700 and max 1500$. Plus to this need to add mount cost (you can't find/earn/buy it with game money), rest I can't recall well, it was most cosmetic items.

    after this experience I pay lot of attention not to be driven into the same trap. Now I pay few (like max 50$ per year) or nothing at all, I looks poor compare to active CS's but I think crap game should not charge more than box game (GW2, TSW) or even VIP access game (9$ every once in a while, LOTRO).

    WoW with premium service cost like 200$ per year and have more content than all f2p together + safe + polished.

    They should have a IQ test before letting someone make a purchase in F2P games then people like you dont have to worry about buying stuff.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     

     

    The point though is that Mizz Lovely_laly our beloved OP spent the money willingly and is blamimg the game and not herself even though she vowed to not make the mistake twice.

    And you think the games are not to blame?

    The games purpously do not disclose to people how much you will need to spend to progress.

    The games purpously use uneven ammounts of money whereby you can never buy a second item with the minimum purchase, enticing players to buy again.

    The games use lockboxes to stimulate the gamblers, making every reward a random chance just like casinos do with slot machines.

    Online gambling is illegal, and lockboxes is online gambling.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Vembumees

    Is WoW scamming me by making me pay 400$ a month for my multibox accounts? 

     $400? Are you playing 26 characters at once?

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     

     

    The point though is that Mizz Lovely_laly our beloved OP spent the money willingly and is blamimg the game and not herself even though she vowed to not make the mistake twice.

    And you think the games are not to blame?

    The games purpously do not disclose to people how much you will need to spend to progress.

    The games purpously use uneven ammounts of money whereby you can never buy a second item with the minimum purchase, enticing players to buy again.

    The games use lockboxes to stimulate the gamblers, making every reward a random chance just like casinos do with slot machines.

    Online gambling is illegal, and lockboxes is online gambling.

    How is that any different from grocery stores charging $.99 or putting high moving items at the back of the store or impulse buy items at the register? Its still entirely your own choice and you know full well what the ramifications of said choice are. Stop trying to blame others for your own irresponsibility. Man up.

     

    @op None of them as I have yet to play one that is a scam.

  • ArzacaneArzacane Dayton, OHPosts: 24Member

    First I'd like to say I have yet to spend, or be conned into spending $1000's on a F2P game. I have spent money, but never tricked into it. When I play a F2P I go in knowing that some things won't be available to me as I am not paying for anything. After all, these companies do need to make money, otherwise, how can they run these severs and keep them maintained. Also, if they don't make any money, what incentive do they, or their programmers, have to make more? This leads me to my second point.

    What multinational MMO does this OP own and run to think that they don't cost much? You have alot of staff: Customer service, maintenance, programmers, testers, quality control, people to come up with ideas, management. Then you have your normal bills: Electric, internet(Which by the way, they pay by how much bandwith they use, they don't get unlimited), costs of building rental, or taxes if they own their building, plus a whole lot of other expenses.

    It amazes me of the ignorance people like the OP has that they think that all this is just magically done for pennies on the dollar. If they could run an MMO that didn't need any source of income and keep it going for lets say 6 months, it would suprise me.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Livnthedream

    How is that any different from grocery stores charging $.99 or putting high moving items at the back of the store or impulse buy items at the register? Its still entirely your own choice and you know full well what the ramifications of said choice are. Stop trying to blame others for your own irresponsibility. Man up.

     

    No you don't.  The fact the game does not in any way disclose what the cost of progression is in F2P games, nor do they disclose if the players can even continue to progress down the line without paying for things.

    And don't try to use "man up" as an argument, everyone is subject to addiction and gambling. You're not some special snowflake. 

    For every 10 people who say they never spend a dime in a F2P game there are 9 liars.

     

    There is a reason why online gambling is illegal, way too many people spend way more money than they should. Is your solution "man up"? Lockboxes and surprise boxes is pure gambling.

     

  • VembumeesVembumees WildStarPosts: 79Member
    Originally posted by Arzacane

    First I'd like to say I have yet to spend, or be conned into spending $1000's on a F2P game. I have spent money, but never tricked into it. When I play a F2P I go in knowing that some things won't be available to me as I am not paying for anything. After all, these companies do need to make money, otherwise, how can they run these severs and keep them maintained. Also, if they don't make any money, what incentive do they, or their programmers, have to make more? This leads me to my second point.

    What multinational MMO does this OP own and run to think that they don't cost much? You have alot of staff: Customer service, maintenance, programmers, testers, quality control, people to come up with ideas, management. Then you have your normal bills: Electric, internet(Which by the way, they pay by how much bandwith they use, they don't get unlimited), costs of building rental, or taxes if they own their building, plus a whole lot of other expenses.

    It amazes me of the ignorance people like the OP has that they think that all this is just magically done for pennies on the dollar. If they could run an MMO that didn't need any source of income and keep it going for lets say 6 months, it would suprise me.

    I'd also like to add to that that most of the AAA development teams have about 100-200 people working on the game and the paychecks range from about 40-200k$ a year depending on the position. That's just the development team.

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Livnthedream

    How is that any different from grocery stores charging $.99 or putting high moving items at the back of the store or impulse buy items at the register? Its still entirely your own choice and you know full well what the ramifications of said choice are. Stop trying to blame others for your own irresponsibility. Man up.

     

    No you don't.  The fact the game does not in any way disclose what the cost of progression is in F2P games, nor do they disclose if the players can even continue to progress down the line without paying for things.

    And don't try to use "man up" as an argument, everyone is subject to addiction and gambling. You're not some special snowflake. 

    For every 10 people who say they never spend a dime in a F2P game there are 9 liars.

     

    Are you trolling or honestly that enamored in your "can't be my fault" complex? I have yet to play a single game where what the cost were was not stated pretty specifically. There is no need for you to open those lock boxes if you hate them so much. I also never stated that I have no spent any money in f2p games, I have and gladly. I do know however just what it is going to cost me ahead of time because I can read and do basic math. I mean windows has a calculator built in you know, and thats without even considering your phone!

     

    Originally posted by Vembumees

    I'd also like to add to that that most of the AAA development teams have about 100-200 people working on the game and the paychecks range from about 40-200k$ a year depending on the position. That's just the development team.

    Average costs put it around $10k per month for every programmer/artist on your team.

  • ArzacaneArzacane Dayton, OHPosts: 24Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Livnthedream

    How is that any different from grocery stores charging $.99 or putting high moving items at the back of the store or impulse buy items at the register? Its still entirely your own choice and you know full well what the ramifications of said choice are. Stop trying to blame others for your own irresponsibility. Man up.

     

    No you don't.  The fact the game does not in any way disclose what the cost of progression is in F2P games, nor do they disclose if the players can even continue to progress down the line without paying for things.

    And don't try to use "man up" as an argument, everyone is subject to addiction and gambling. You're not some special snowflake. 

    For every 10 people who say they never spend a dime in a F2P game there are 9 liars.

     

    All 'F2P' MMO's that have required purchases to progress that I have played have posted that you would need to make said purchases. It may not say it on the front page, mind you, but if you nose around their website, you will find it. One game that comes to mid having done so was DDO before it became 'truely free to play'. You had to buy ceiling limit tokens if you wanted to get the next five levels and since they had I believe 4 'tiers', you'd have had to buy three tokens. Now, they would drop, but it was an extremely rare drop. If it didn't drop, then that was money you'd have to pay. It was stated in their website that purchases may have to be made to progress, though. Companies mostly run like Sony where they will have a list on what's available to each group of people. your Free members, your Premium and Pay members and what have you. It just takes some, if not alot of investigating.

  • VembumeesVembumees WildStarPosts: 79Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    There is a reason why online gambling is illegal, way too many people spend way more money than they should. Is your solution "man up"? Lockboxes and surprise boxes is pure gambling.

     

    Why do you keep repeating that? Online gambling is not illegal, it's only illegal for the companies that don't pay taxes to your country to allow them. Jesus fucking christ how can you have so little awareness about the Internet.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Livnthedream

     I have yet to play a single game where what the cost were was not stated pretty specifically. 

    The cost is never stated when the game launches. In a P2P game the cost is $15, and you know very well what you're getting yourself into.

    In a F2P game you have no clue whatsoever. The mere fact there is always so much drama about cash shops in F2P games means people have no way of knowing what items comes next or how they will be nickel and dimed next month.

     

    If people went to a movie theather, paid for their ticket, and 10 minutes into the movie a screen popped up that said they had to pay some more if they wanted to see the rest of the movie, people would be outraged.

     

    There is no other comparable payment model to the one F2P uses in the real world, because people in the real world wouldn't accept it, except for one group who they take advantage of ... gamblers. And F2P are becoming online casinos more and more with lockboxes and surprise boxes and spinning wheels that look exactly like slot machines.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Vembumees
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    There is a reason why online gambling is illegal, way too many people spend way more money than they should. Is your solution "man up"? Lockboxes and surprise boxes is pure gambling.

     

    Why do you keep repeating that? Online gambling is not illegal, it's only illegal for the companies that don't pay taxes to your country to allow them. Jesus fucking christ how can you have so little awareness about the Internet.

    From the FBI:

    http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2007/june/gambling_060607

    "You can go to Vegas. You can go to Atlantic City. You can go to a racetrack. You can go to those places and gamble legally. But don’t do it online. It’s against the law,

    We currently have about a dozen of these cases in motion. One of the biggest came last July when a federal grand jury in St. Louis returned a 22-count indictment against 11 individuals and four companies for their involvement in illegal online gaming and related activities. ” 

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    The cost is never stated when the game launches. In a P2P game the cost is $15, and you know very well what you're getting yourself into.

    In a F2P game you have no clue whatsoever. The mere fact there is always so much drama about cash shops in F2P games means people have no way of knowing what items comes next or how they will be nickel and dimed next month.

     

    If people went to a movie theather, paid for their ticket, and 10 minutes into the movie a screen popped up that said they had to pay some more if they wanted to see the rest of the movie, people would be outraged.

     

    There is no other comparable payment model to the one F2P uses in the real world, because people in the real world wouldn't accept it, except for one group who they take advantage of ... gamblers. And F2P are becoming online casinos more and more with lockboxes and surprise boxes and spinning wheels that look exactly like slot machines.

    Except thats not how it is. If the game is specifically f2p you are already getting the basics for free. You only have to pay more if you want that soda and popcorn to enhance your experience. While its true that not all f2p games operate that way, there are some that have said "you need to pay to progress past a certain point" they are the minority, and even then its always explicitly stated somewhere before you even sign up for it. Its called consumer due diligence. The responsibility lies on you to know what it is you are getting into. If the game company themselves witheld that information you would be correct, but in my experience that pretty much never happens as its not legal.

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,296Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vembumees
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    There is a reason why online gambling is illegal, way too many people spend way more money than they should. Is your solution "man up"? Lockboxes and surprise boxes is pure gambling.

     

    Why do you keep repeating that? Online gambling is not illegal, it's only illegal for the companies that don't pay taxes to your country to allow them. Jesus fucking christ how can you have so little awareness about the Internet.

    Online gambling is illegal in various countries, or only open to certain age groups, Norway i think bans all online gambling, except from a few sources. Gambling in Online games is something of a grey area, one thats becoming something of a problem, its quite possible that in the next few years some of these F2P games that engage in some of these dubious mechanics to extract cash from their players, may find themselves circumscribed. With the recent in app purchases debacle on itunes, its pretty likely that it will only be a matter of time before legislation is introduced anyway.image

  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Barrow, AKPosts: 817Member
    Originally posted by Vembumees

    Spending 5000$ on games is absolutely nothing lol, there are players in Eve who have spent 100,000$+ on the game. Spending thousands of dollars on gold in wow has been quite an average sight, especially back in vanilla. I understand that low wage people or schoolkids have hard time understanding it, but they are not really affecting the games they play anyhow at all with their tiny 50$ cashshop buyings.

     

    And mostly they aren't scamming anyone. Is WoW scamming me by making me pay 400$ a month for my multibox accounts? No it was 100% my decision. Only one who feels they are scamming is you, Envy.

    Umm, so you have 26/27 WoW accounts ?

    Why.

    Do you really expect us to believe that ?

    Lolipops !

  • PrecusorPrecusor PalmaPosts: 4,733Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vembumees

     

    And mostly they aren't scamming anyone. Is WoW scamming me by making me pay 400$ a month for my multibox accounts? No it was 100% my decision. Only one who feels they are scamming is you, Envy.

    I would love to see your PC set up.

     

    Got any pics?

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Livnthedream

     I have yet to play a single game where what the cost were was not stated pretty specifically. 

    The cost is never stated when the game launches. In a P2P game the cost is $15, and you know very well what you're getting yourself into.

    In a F2P game you have no clue whatsoever. The mere fact there is always so much drama about cash shops in F2P games means people have no way of knowing what items comes next or how they will be nickel and dimed next month.

     

    If people went to a movie theather, paid for their ticket, and 10 minutes into the movie a screen popped up that said they had to pay some more if they wanted to see the rest of the movie, people would be outraged.

     

    There is no other comparable payment model to the one F2P uses in the real world, because people in the real world wouldn't accept it, except for one group who they take advantage of ... gamblers. And F2P are becoming online casinos more and more with lockboxes and surprise boxes and spinning wheels that look exactly like slot machines.

     

    This nickle and dime argument is getting really old, you are only nickle and dimed if you are forced to pay because you need that product like say petrol or electricity but in an entertaiment product, don't be ridiculous, you simple stop playing, so we are back to that self control. And as someone else said do you complain about the ludicrous prices of popcorn and Coke at the theatre? or do you have the option to not buy the stuff? In most MMO's you can progress without the need to be maxed out it would be suicide for companies to make all endgame cost 1000's of dollars/euros/pounds/ as no-one would be able to afford it. You argument is based on a few OCD afflicted people who cannot control themselves, please use some common sense. Also where I am in the UK Internet gambling is absolutely legal and is making billions of pounds a year its even on mainstream TV late at night so thats that argument quashed.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • Demmi77Demmi77 philly, PAPosts: 225Member

    swtor has to be the worst. You really don't play it free to play. Everything of value is bought in the cash shop. The game limits your play time in pvp, dungeons, gear etc unless you either unlock it or sub.

    but here is the kicker with swtor. You pay to subscribe, and you think you are in the clear. Nope, the free to play model in swtor bends over the subscribers and doesn't even have the courtesy to give them a reach around. Subbing in swtor isn't even p2p you still almost have invest money in teh cartel market. I have never seen anything like it in a game.

    after that would be anything perfect world. BLR is almost unplayable at a high level unless you pay for some unlocks. a full gear unlock armor, helm, boots, weapon (complete, equipment, grenades etc.. around 120$ . Just for one set there are around 50 unlocks.

    MU online is an old school game i used to plya. You can just gamble your life away on that one.

    I am seriously tired of BOXES , every effing f2p game. BUY A BOX WITH A CHANCE OF X...I just want to buy the game, and sub and get everything. I am actually avoiding f2p games more and more cause they end up costing 4 times a normal game.

    only game that did f2p right was league of legends.

  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common
    I have stopped analyzing for myself which is 'worst'.  I just try to avoid all microtransaction games, which of course mean that I avoid increasing % of whole game market.
  • ScambugScambug TortugaPosts: 389Member

    My vote goes to The Secret World.

    Even though the game has some redeeming qualities, it's clear it was built since day 1 to be a F2P title.

    They added a box price and a sub to cash in on the hype at release and then immediately switched to F2P.

    Yeah that's the only time I litterally felt scammed by an MMO.

    Otherwise I don't see how anyone could feel scammed by a F2P MMO. You get to try it for free and then decide if you want to play the full version by investing a little cash. F2P is just another way of saying free unlimited trial, nothing more.

  • Demmi77Demmi77 philly, PAPosts: 225Member
    Originally posted by Sulaa
    I have stopped analyzing for myself which is 'worst'.  I just try to avoid all microtransaction games, which of course mean that I avoid increasing % of whole game market.

    to be honest, this is the way i feel. I stick with league of legends , i buy a couple skins a month. I tried resubbing to swtor and scratched my head at what the game offered to subs vs cash shop vs sub + cash shop.

    nexon, pwe, all of them are just getting out of control. It's starting to just get ugly even with b2p games. You purchase a game and they have like 20 dlc's ready for you to throw out another 10$ a pop. I just want to buy a game that is complete, i'll pay the sub etc.. but the market is getting way to scary cause now we as gamers just don't know what we are getting.

    unfortunately there are no laws to protect us, so we shell out 59.99 on a game , and then in order to play the full game we have to buy a dlc and that is disgusting.

    or we buy the game, pay the sub and find out that the best features are in a microtransaction shop. As much as people rag on wow, they are the last of a dying breed of companies that you get what you pay for. It is really getting out of hand.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    In every f2p I have ever played, every time I have thought about purchasing something, the game tells me exactly how much it costs and what it does.  I then decide if I want to pay it or not.

    That is the very opposite of a scam.

    Online gambling is legal in Canada where I live. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member

    *sigh* i just want to go back to P2P so i dont have to be worried aout being scammed anymore, i just want to pay my flat rate and get everything the game has with it, so i can play theg ame and if i dont enjoy playing it i can just stop, why is that so complicated, i like life simpole i like to know where my monthly stipend for gameing money is going not poke thrtough the cash shops going so do i have enough left in this month for all the things i really want, well no,

    yall want the truth i want to go back to P2P cause im a cheap person and evrytime i have to use my card online, i spend to much time thinking about it, i liked it when the transition of money between me and the devs was simpilar and easyier.

    last thin and im done, if the companies where not makeing more money with tis module then they where with P2P then they would not be useing it in mass like they are currently.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • This whole concept of needing to spend large amounts of money to advance in some of these MMOs reminds me of the famous quote from the movie "War Games"

     

    "The only way to win is not to play the game".

     

    Some people get so caught up that they lose sight that it's just a game, a game they started, and a game they can stop by not playing and moving onto another game. I struggled with this concept for quite a bit with Trading Card Games, where I was always inner-griping that my TCGs of choice kept getting more and more expensive. I don't play them competitively anymore for good reason, because no matter how many games I was winning in tournaments, I was still losing more then I wanted to by buying what I needed to play in the tournaments.

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon

    None.

    I have NEVER spent a dime on F2P games. Played a ton of "extended free trials", as I call them.

    I, personally,I don't get caught up in the "I MUST HAVE POWERFULL TOON" mentality.

    Gaming is a "time waster" for me and that is all. Not something I feel compelled to throw money at. Besides I read the EULA, in short, "ALL IN THE GAME BELONG TO THE PUBLISHER", never was yours.

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