It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by mrrshann618 It is quite simple. SWG failed, and failed hard. It would not be stronger today thanks to WoW and the dumbing down process.
Not really. SWTOR failed. EA were expecting it to last 10 years as P2P
Has SOE folded - Smedley left the business and gone beer making? Nope. Has the main people from Bioware done this? Yep
Did SWG go F2P? No. SWTOR did and within the year.
SWG did not cost a bomb to make, so was financilaly viable. SWTOR was not, and now EA are extorting more money from SWTOR subbers with the cash shop too
SWG also got many updates and 3 proper expansions, whereas SWTOR got a joke of an expansion which was really just an update and is the first MMO to charge for an update. If SWTOR did not fail it would have had a proper expansion, and plenty more content that it has been getting, which is just stuff that was mentioned nearly a year ago now.
SWG was only shut down because they knew that SWTOR was not up to scratch, and would SWTOR failed even more as people flocked back to SWG.
SWTOR was created too much from WOW, and BW even said that if you do not do what WOW does, then you are setting yourself up for fail, but as WOW does WOW better than SWTOR does, people just went back to WOW
About 75% of people who bought SWTOR, proves that SWTOR failed and failed hard
thats the real reason behind all those players that leave their new mmo's and return to the old chicken again and again.
Originally posted by mrrshann618 It is quite simple. SWG failed, and failed hard. It would not be stronger today thanks to WoW and the dumbing down process. You want space combat, free flight, mining, ect..., quite simple, there is a game called eve. Quit trying to make SWTOR into Eve or SWG 2 You want instanced housing. yeah well that is your thing. I for one never bother with it and do not need to show off my e-peen about how great I am at decorating. Instancing - Well every game does it. however I do have to state that many games hide it much better. STO has just as much in the way of instancing. Day/night, Weather Cycles, Open world - Yeah, how are these a necessity? Most games I've run across do not really have it or if they do it rarely makes any difference except dimming of the lights. Asfor open world. most games are just better at hiding it. Lets take a Look at WoW, much of that game is NOT open world. you are herded from point A to point B and many times can only get from those two points via a set route. Now Rift on the other hand, if you can find a way over the hill, you can cross dang near anywhere. SWG is a different game from SWTOR, and it failed Eve is a different game from SWTOR and it is going strong. Both are Sandbox styles. SWTOR is not. SWOTR is a Themepark! Go somewhere else for your Sandbox wishes. Quit trying to make a Themepark into a Sandbox even though you know IT WILL NEVER BE ONE and then bitching that the company isn't listening to you. Side note. I'd be "defending" ANY themepark against your sandbox wishes. I play Themepark games because I want to go on a ride and enjoy myself. NOT go to a "second life/job". I do not need a digital life/job my analog one is doing just fine.
SWG did not fail. Want to talk about failures, you're mentioning it a lot in your post and it also begins with SW. Please get your facts right before posting garbage.
SWG -> Only in the dreams of players or on private servers as it is canceled = Failed
SWTOR -> in it's current state = did not live up to expectations, - When it is canceled = Failed
As for SWG going f2p, well the concept was not really around, or didn't have backing. Either way I wouldn't be playing it, as many others wouldn't
SWTOR lifespan < SWG so of course there are more expansions. That is like saying that expanions = how great a game is. Microtransactions and charging for DLC is the new thing, these concepts were not around for SWG, No longer do developers HAVE to worry about a full blown expansion unless they want to.
SWTOR was created to be much like WoW as it is a themepark. SWG is a sandbox TWO different play styles and types of games. SWG didn't have space right away, yet everyone EXPECTS every game to follow to has it as part of the core.
Originally posted by superniceguy SWG was only shut down because they knew that SWTOR was not up to scratch, and would SWTOR failed even more as people flocked back to SWG.
So what you are saying is that SWG failed because they knew SWTOR Was going to fail? That just sounds silly. Sandbox =/= themepark Those who liked Sandbox would have gone back, those that liked Themepark would have still left SWG.
You won't see those things in this game. If you really want those things then you need to look for another game. Basically your choices are either leave and look for other game or stay in Swotr and de-facto support current Swtor design - yes you'll be supporting it even if you'll be creating threads like this one - because from game companies point of view it matters what you do (play game or not) rather than what you say. Don't believe me?
Look at those Vanilla WoW players that still play WoW and create endless threads what need to be added, changed or reversed to make WoW superb again. It's 8th year they're doing this and WoW is still not changing (back) to what they want. All they had really shown by all those years is that they LIKE how WoW is changing - because they still play it.
Originally posted by mrrshann618 SWG -> Only in the dreams of players or on private servers as it is canceled = Failed SWTOR -> in it's current state = did not live up to expectations, - When it is canceled = Failed As for SWG going f2p, well the concept was not really around, or didn't have backing. Either way I wouldn't be playing it, as many others wouldn't SWTOR lifespan < SWG so of course there are more expansions. That is like saying that expanions = how great a game is. Microtransactions and charging for DLC is the new thing, these concepts were not around for SWG, No longer do developers HAVE to worry about a full blown expansion unless they want to. SWTOR was created to be much like WoW as it is a themepark. SWG is a sandbox TWO different play styles and types of games. SWG didn't have space right away, yet everyone EXPECTS every game to follow to has it as part of the core. Originally posted by superniceguy SWG was only shut down because they knew that SWTOR was not up to scratch, and would SWTOR failed even more as people flocked back to SWG.
those who liked themeparks left for WOW.
funny but during SWG's lifetime, DDO, LOTRO,STO,COH, and others went F2P.
A game shutting down does not always mean failure. SWG is one, and City of Heroes is another. Both closed due to arrogant business decisions.
Most games get 1-3 months notice for closure, SWG had a whopping 6 months and at the time of the closure announcment the populations were rising again due to free ongoing transfers, plus was shut down the day SWTOR gave early access = SWG was shut down because of SWTOR, and SWG was still succeeding / popular at the time of the closure announcement.
Also coincidentally in a PC Gamer article of behind the scenes with SWTOR, Dallas Dickinson (who was also responsible for the NGE) made major modifications of the game gutting loads of content, so the game would release earlier and not spend any longer being delayed and in development longer. This was 6 months before release - the same time when SWG was announced to shut down.
During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”
Smedley kept saying that SWTOR was going to be awesome and wondering if SWG would have had a playerbase, and with the SWG licence, did not take the chance, but he was only going by the hype of SWTOR from BW/EA the same as 2 million people who bought a copy at launch. If he had a crystal ball and could see the fall of SWTOR in 2012, I doubt SWG would have shut down.
SOE decided to shut down SWG because he thought SWTOR was going to be a success, but LA were wanting to shut down SWG to ensure SW fans would only have SWTOR to play, and be no chance of going back to SWG, because after the gutting of SWTOR, they did not have confidence in SWTOR.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Timing has and seems to always be as important as the qaulity of a game.If wqe look at another sci fi spac type game,EVE it does about 1/4 what SWTOR does but has more success.Why?Well Eve was out first.no competition for that market.Gamers tend to be afraid to let go,if they spent months,years building a player in a game,they are not easily letting go.So although SWTOR is a muich better game than Eve,they won't get the players becuase the market share was already scooped by Eve.
Wow has it's market a lucky one based on brand new players who just wanted to play mmo's and picked the most marketed one.
We have a few pvp based gsames,they have their market share.That doesn't leave much left.That is why games need to be creative,you can't simply plot down a npc with a marker over it's head and connect linear quests to them.You can't simply create that clone TREE system or the end game instance fights.All of that has been done so many times over ,players are either bored of it,or are already in a game playing that style.
There lies the problem,who exactly were EA or Biowares markleting team aiming for?The demographic tells me the type of gamer that is already comfortable in the same somewhere else.So very poor decision making.
MY opinion is that from day 1 they figured just having the great IP tag of SWTOR they figured toss a game out there and it will make money.I am sure it did do ok for making money,but did little to excite keep the interest of gamers beyond it's title.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
An Engine that isn't crap
End Game content that lasts longer thna a couple of dedicated weeks and is actually challenging.
*Ducks for cover from fanbois*
Originally posted by doodphace
I love how pepople on these forums completely forget thet SWG Pre NGE was bleeding subs at an alarming rate.
Yes, that is correct....your mecca of sandbox games was failing hard...NGE was a last ditch effort to save it. Granted, the NGE made the game a lot worse, but nothing can hide the fact that Pre NGE SWG was going downhill fast. If it came out today, its population would dwindle faster that SWTOR.
For one I didn't forget that the game was losing more and more player everyday well before the CU but that was more the case of most of us who enjoyed the game already wanted many things to be fixed they SOE ignored most of its actual playerbase and listend mostly to those "too much reading, too complex, jedi is to hard, not starwarsy enough" forum posters as they seemed to be in the majority...unfortunaly. Which in turn gave us the Combat Benny Hill Upgrade followed by the NGE which again was something we could have seen clearly coming if you had followed the forums and read the most common complaints about the game.
However on topic I don't believe SWtOR needs those things mentioned by OP, but a new Star Wars MMORPG could do well with those type of feature's. I say this mostly because I believe OP's suggestions can not be cooperated with SWtOR's current engine.
Originally posted by deniter Originally posted by baphamet Originally posted by simplius Originally posted by RefMinor A reverse NGE.
you don't think the fact that wow is 9 years old has anything to do with it?
i am not saying simple is better by any means, i am just saying that simple appeals to the masses more than hardcore unforgiving mmo's do.
SWG did not fail - nor was it "closed" SWG because it was a "failure". SWG was clsoed because LucasArts did not renew SoE's licence - probably as part of their agreement with EA (removing the competition etc.)
(SWG did not meet sales expectations - although it probably wasn't a financial failure and what SOW did was a lesson in not what to do to the playerbase but that doesn't make SWG a "failure".)
Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by doodphace Originally posted by sethman75 Originally posted by baphamet Originally posted by simplius Originally posted by RefMinor A reverse NGE.
luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay
and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather...
swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game
and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done,
because of the engines limitations
disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong.
one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.
Agree. Make it too hard and players will flock to something else.
Hardcore has and will always be a minority group
SWG was not failing hard or fast. It peaked on Xfire in 2004, no doubnt with the JTL expansion, that is one year after release. It kept a steady amount of players until they started screwing around with the CU and NGE in 2005, but the numbers were not what LA wanted. None of the servers were as dead as SWTOR for years, and there were no server merges until 2009, which was 6 years after launch. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months.
I think if it came out today it would get more population, as at the end it had more features than most MMOs put together. People were mainly put off my the sweeping changes of the CU and NGE.
You are completely rerwiting history....NGE/CU was a direct result of their sub numbers dropping. There is no debating this....NGE was a last ditch effort to save the game, but it incidentially spead up its demise.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.**On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**
SWTOR is a pathetic MMO. I played SWG from the second day after release (because you could not play the first day) and yes, it failed. It failed big time. It was such a monumental failure that it totally derailed the sandbox sub genre. Ironically, it is the very same people who killed the sandbox MMO that are trying to revive it with Everquest Next.
SWG failed because it was always a technical flopfest. Nothing worked in that game. The day they shut down the game there were bugs from the first day of release (I am looking at you, random inventory item switching bugs). They never had a stable game.
Combine the technical nightmare with the fact that when the game was launched there were no quests, no loot, no dungeons.....and you quickly had people doing nothing once they leveled their character. If you wanted to be the typical MMO adventurer you were out of luck with SWG and the developers knew this.
But they waited too long. Their decision was to do the CU and NGE.....and they released the patch notes a DAY before that thing went live. They bamboozled the entire player base with crippling changes to the core of the entire game....and they never bothered telling the players until the day before. I am sure someone saved the long post on the original SWG forums, it is a pretty good read.
That is why SWG failed. I played it, had a great time doing all the things you could do pre-NGE and even enjoyed it post NGE but to sit here and say SWG did not fail is basically admitting that you never even played the game.
New Coke, Betamax, Ford Edsel, SWG.....yeah, that kind of fail.
So, if SWG was such a failure, why do current MMO's fail to meet it's level of technical brilliance. It had free roam space, open world PvP, player cities, a housing system matched by none, player run shops, player run economy, unparalleled crafting system, unique skill tree's, and so much more to offer which has not been matched since.
It had it's flaws I grant you but they were not in the quantity of the current shite you have in it's replacement. I know which I would rather play anyway.
Originally posted by DocBrody Hello, so I tried out SWTOR for some time. Let these videos show you what is missing in SWTOR in my opinion: SPACE EXPLORATION
That was so boring and tedious. Maybe if there was a smarter way to probe space as opposed to the absolute tedium that represented.
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by DocBrody Hello, so I tried out SWTOR for some time. Let these videos show you what is missing in SWTOR in my opinion: SPACE EXPLORATION
fine - you like gamey games, I like immersive realistic simulations.
What is boring for you is exciting for other people.
But you are right, something sophisticated like the scanning in EvE wouldn't work in SWTOR, wrong target audience I guess.
e.g. The horrible one click crafting in SWTOR speaks for itself. Most dumbed down interpretation of crafting I have ever seen, in any MMO.
Originally posted by DocBrody Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by DocBrody Hello, so I tried out SWTOR for some time. Let these videos show you what is missing in SWTOR in my opinion: SPACE EXPLORATION
you insinuate so much and yet you know nothing about me.
What I saw there was a ridiculous process that required more effort than was required. Breaking down something as simple as what I saw there to multiple tasks when it wasn't even required borders on ridiculous.
1, launch probes, then open map, then...
How about laucign probes and a map suddenly opens with the launchign of the probes.
multiple components do not indicate depth or complexity.
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by DocBrody Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by DocBrody Hello, so I tried out SWTOR for some time. Let these videos show you what is missing in SWTOR in my opinion: SPACE EXPLORATION
ok, the scanning process was indeed a little tedious, but probe formation presets and some other improvements coming for the next EvE update
I'd just like to have an exploration/scanning aspect in SWTOR space sim part, should it ever become reality
Originally posted by RefMinor A reverse NGE.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by DocBrody Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by DocBrody Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by DocBrody Hello, so I tried out SWTOR for some time. Let these videos show you what is missing in SWTOR in my opinion: SPACE EXPLORATION
I'm all for adding depth, features, really making a space game robust. But it's always important to make things flow and streamlined.
Bring on new game play elements but my thought is that the average person should always have an easy time with all the game play elements until such time as the complexity can be added that will really enhance the game.
Originally posted by BreakingBad So, if SWG was such a failure, why do current MMO's fail to meet it's level of technical brilliance. It had free roam space, open world PvP, player cities, a housing system matched by none, player run shops, player run economy, unparalleled crafting system, unique skill tree's, and so much more to offer which has not been matched since. It had it's flaws I grant you but they were not in the quantity of the current shite you have in it's replacement. I know which I would rather play anyway.
technical brilliance doesnt save a game,,wow have a fair amount of bugs,,huge success
i never saw a bug in the month i was playing EVE, but that doesnt help them much
if a game is good enough, a player will suffer through it all
but bad gameplay AND bugs will drive players away
as i see it, both star wars mmos are suffering from the same
Originally posted by Maaku I'm half and half I guess on most of these (Deathstar, really? Meh!). As for hardcore, just no. If I was still in college with nothing else to do of my evenings and weekends, ok, maybe but the mmo crowd is VAST. From the kid barely out of his diaper to old timers like me who enjoyed a good old text based game. This has been said a million times but there is NO WAY you'll satisfy everyone with a game. Even all the changes the OP asked for. So, is it what the game NEEDS, no. What the game needs is subscribers that stick with it long enough to get these changes, additions, suggestions in. Given the chance, time and money, I'm sure the swtor team could add these worlds and features (Most). There's so many ways to go around some of the games limitations, really not an issue. The problem is they'll never get the capital to do it so here people sit crying about what might be when you've already given up on your best chance. We've lived in a 'Consumer is always right' mentality for too fucking long. Hell, kids today are crying a damn fit if daddy doesn't buy them the latest iPhone... Well boohoo you little fucking snot osed spoiled dickless. In my time, there was ONE PHONE in the house and you made due! (.end grandpa rant). I think if we want the game to be what we wish it to be, we must first help it be successful instead of bashing it and moving on. Myself, I'm still subscribed to swtor and having a blast. Looking forward to the next update which brings in a new race (Cathar) and some nice dye options for armors. Plus, Star Wars is Star Wars, swtor makes me feel part of that verse and to me, that's what really counts at the end.
the consumer is always right,,specially in mmos
a good dev will give you almost what you want, without making me unsub
but i agree on the resource aspect,,and that is swtors biggest failure
they started big, and then they lost momentum, while the huge playerbase was exposed to the bugs and glitches
the right way to do it, is to start small, and then grow the game with the player feedback
thats how wow did it
and that is why all the wow killers are failing
Originally posted by doodphace Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by doodphace Originally posted by sethman75 Originally posted by baphamet Originally posted by simplius Originally posted by RefMinor A reverse NGE.
No, you just misunderstand what I mean
There was no obvious signs of decline with SWG as could be seen with SWTOR. SWG had server merges in 2009, 6 years after release and 3 years after NGE. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months of launch. Like I said it had a steady amount of players - plenty people playing, but LA were just not happy with the numbers, when they saw the success of WOW in 2004. Any decline in SWG, was negligable, and only affected LA (maybe SOE), but not the players. SWTORs decline affected LA/EA/BW and the players, as it dropped so fast, leaving many servers actually dead and no means to transfer, and still does not.