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Trinity?

MightyUncleanMightyUnclean st. pete, FLPosts: 706Member Uncommon

Does the trinity hold true in Neverwinter?  Does the shield warrior tank?  Is there a need for healing?

 

Thanks!

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Comments

  • LeiloniLeiloni None of your beeswax, ALPosts: 432Member Uncommon
    Yes tanks and healers defintely have their place. :)
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean st. pete, FLPosts: 706Member Uncommon
    Good!  Can the Great Weapon Fighter tank?  Or is it mainly DPS?
  • LeiloniLeiloni None of your beeswax, ALPosts: 432Member Uncommon
    It's more dps. If you want a tank play the Guardian Fighter. It's your typical shield and sword tank and has all sorts of traditional tank skills like taunts and debuffs and things. Great Weapon Fighter is the traditional two handed melee dps. It is D&D after all. :)
  • miguksarammiguksaram Fort Meade, MDPosts: 826Member Uncommon

    The Great Weapon Fighter (GWF) is meant to the be the games primarly AoE DPS class, though that claim can't really be made until late game as early levels feel horribly underpowered.  They do have 1 feat line that allows them to build a more defensive playstyle but I don't think you would really call it a "tank" line.

    The Guardian Fighter (GF) is the games intended tank class.  I say intended because many are complaining the tank companions can do a similar job at least up through the mid levels.  They can also be DPS focused but much like the GWF it's not really the intention to have them be a primary DPS class over actual tanking.

    Since I've already broken those down I guess I just finish it out with the others.

    The Devote Cleric (DC) is the games healer and much like healers in other games can be built around putting out decent DPS (though you will sacifice some excellent healing feats to do that).  Healing in this game requires a bit more finess than most other MMO's as actual targeting and line of sight matter.  Most people are still expected to carry pots to help the healer out by healing themselves though so in a well organized group the role of healing can be minimized.  

    The Control Wizard (CW) is as the name suggests the games primary CC class.  They can also put out a decent amount of AoE DPS and prior to the GWF getting certain skills will actually provide the majority of group AoE DPS.  CC in this game is critical because all bosses call adds periodically through out the fights that would otherwise overwhelm groups without a CW.  Most CC effects will not work on bosses though so that is where the GF comes in a a primary tank while everyone else helps clear all the constant adds.

    The Trickster Rogue (TR) is the games primary single target DPS class and by a LARGE margin at that.  This class is a DPS machine and can be played either straight up in your face much like standard non-tank warriors in other games or very much like a stealth based rogue but one that teleports all over the place.  If you like seeing HUGE numbers that cannot be matched by any other class this is the one for you.  Just be aware because of the last statement the TR is easily the most played class in te game currently.

  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean st. pete, FLPosts: 706Member Uncommon
    Thanks for the help!  Does a GWF even have a taunt?
  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common

    My experience so far is this:

    low level Guardians kind of suck at aggro,  Rogues can pull aggro with ease

    not everything is meant to be tanked.  Pretty sure is design for tank to hold the big bad guys attention while the dps runs around and picks off the little guys first

  • ChloroCatChloroCat Easley, SCPosts: 98Member
     There is a trinity but for me it seems like it very flimsy. Everyone in the groups I've been in just start slashing at anything that moves..like they have only 30 seconds until the end. Pew pew pew boom boom..pew. I would rather it have been slowed down some so you could actually enjoy the game and look at were you are. But the trinity is there...just don't blink.

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  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by ChloroCat
     There is a trinity but for me it seems like it very flimsy. Everyone in the groups I've been in just start slashing at anything that moves..like they have only 30 seconds until the end. Pew pew pew boom boom..pew. I would rather it have been slowed down some so you could actually enjoy the game and look at were you are. But the trinity is there...just don't blink.

    If you do that in the later dungeons you will be a corpse. The first 30 levels are somewhat misleading, this is indeed very much a trinity game.

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Vigg
    Good!  Can the Great Weapon Fighter tank?  Or is it mainly DPS?
    They have a defensive talent tree but its definitely not for tanking.

    Actually Im not sure what its supposed to be for because its pretty much useless, GWFs defensive talent tree cant take damage or hold threat.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Vigg
    Good!  Can the Great Weapon Fighter tank?  Or is it mainly DPS?

    They have a defensive talent tree but its definitely not for tanking.

     

    Actually Im not sure what its supposed to be for because its pretty much useless, GWFs defensive talent tree cant take damage or hold threat.

    Mostly for PvP.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vigg

    Does the trinity hold true in Neverwinter?  Does the shield warrior tank?  Is there a need for healing?

     

    Thanks!

    While some dungeons can be ran with no trinity (albeit without good results but still possible) the higher end dungeons most def require a trinity.  Might I add, the harder dungeons are more suited to having and some even require you have addtional roles.  Like Crowd Control and AOE DPS.  In fact the vast majority of the heroic dungeons run better and smoother with a Guardian Fighter (Tank), Devoted Cleric (Healer & AOE DPS), Trickster Rogue (Burst DPS for Add phases), Great Weapon Fighter (AOE DPS and Off tanking adds) and Control Wizard (Crowd Control).

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

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  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vigg
    Thanks for the help!  Does a GWF even have a taunt?

    Not a Taunt per se but they do have AOE DPS and AOE "Marks" which is a buff for the party and a debuff for the creatures which usually draw hefty agro.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon

    Devoted Clerics are for some reason able to pull the highest threat per second in the game, thus the often times end up tanking everything.

     

    See Castle Neverwinter.

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon

    This game is more Diabolo/Dungeon Siege than a conventional MMO, and the emphasis is on past-paced combat.  Players are really expected to do the bulk of healing thmselves, what with potions being so ridiculaously cheap and also ridiculously common as drops.  For example, the pre-lvl 15 potion heals for 1k and only has a 12-second cooldown, and at those levels thats essentially a full HP bar right there.  

    On top of that, at lvl 15, when you get your first Companion, you can pick the Cleric as your Companion and your handy new npc party member heals you and fights perfectly adequately.  My Control Mage and her pet Cleric romp around slaughtering stuff like they're high on combat drugs, rarely losing much - if any - HP.  :D

    You could argue there is a "Trinity" but it's purely nominal.  As mentioned above, blink and you'll miss it.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Dibdabs

    This game is more Diabolo/Dungeon Siege than a conventional MMO, and the emphasis is on past-paced combat.  Players are really expected to do the bulk of healing thmselves, what with potions being so ridiculaously cheap and also ridiculously common as drops.  For example, the pre-lvl 15 potion heals for 1k and only has a 12-second cooldown, and at those levels thats essentially a full HP bar right there.  

    On top of that, at lvl 15, when you get your first Companion, you can pick the Cleric as your Companion and your handy new npc party member heals you and fights perfectly adequately.  My Control Mage and her pet Cleric romp around slaughtering stuff like they're high on combat drugs, rarely losing much - if any - HP.  :D

    You could argue there is a "Trinity" but it's purely nominal.  As mentioned above, blink and you'll miss it.

    As mentioned above, if you havent made it to end-game, your opinion is worthless, much like potions and healer companions.

    Potions at end game do about 5% healing. Healing companions probably like 1-2% heal per 5 seconds. If you think that can keep you alive against the incoming damage you recieve you are sorely mistaken.

    This isn't GW2 where you can play whatever you want and get through the content. For end game dungeons and hard modes you will be taking a Tank, Healer, Control and DPS.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Dibdabs

    This game is more Diabolo/Dungeon Siege than a conventional MMO, and the emphasis is on past-paced combat.  Players are really expected to do the bulk of healing thmselves, what with potions being so ridiculaously cheap and also ridiculously common as drops.  For example, the pre-lvl 15 potion heals for 1k and only has a 12-second cooldown, and at those levels thats essentially a full HP bar right there.  

    On top of that, at lvl 15, when you get your first Companion, you can pick the Cleric as your Companion and your handy new npc party member heals you and fights perfectly adequately.  My Control Mage and her pet Cleric romp around slaughtering stuff like they're high on combat drugs, rarely losing much - if any - HP.  :D

    You could argue there is a "Trinity" but it's purely nominal.  As mentioned above, blink and you'll miss it.

    As mentioned above, if you havent made it to end-game, your opinion is worthless, much like potions and healer companions.

    Potions at end game do about 5% healing. Healing companions probably like 1-2% heal per 5 seconds. If you think that can keep you alive against the incoming damage you recieve you are sorely mistaken.

    This isn't GW2 where you can play whatever you want and get through the content. For end game dungeons and hard modes you will be taking a Tank, Healer, Control and DPS.

    Happy Dayz ! image

     

    Neverwinter seems to be very much a "classic MMORPG". It's kinda nice to have a new one around again.

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by evilastro

    This isn't GW2 where you can play whatever you want and get through the content. For end game dungeons and hard modes you will be taking a Tank, Healer, Control and DPS.

    Happy Dayz ! image

     

    Neverwinter seems to be very much a "classic MMORPG". It's kinda nice to have a new one around again.

    It might be the case that end game dungeons will require that sort of thing, but Neverwinter is no more classic than any other themepark release. Levelling up is once again a completely solo experience, even in group quests there's really no need to have a trinity in there. I played a Cleric which was healing spec'd and didn't need to use a heal the whole adventure, people just ran around bashing stuff like they'd downed a mouthful of superhero juice.

    Now I'm not sure about end game because I haven't got there, but so far it's just another solo quest game with no need for the other players to be around except to be able to call it an MMO.

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by moosecatlol
    Devoted Clerics are for some reason able to pull the highest threat per second in the game, thus the often times end up tanking everything.
    Which has been known for a while with no fix in sight.


    Good ol' Cryptic.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by UsualSuspect
     

    It might be the case that end game dungeons will require that sort of thing, but Neverwinter is no more classic than any other themepark release. Levelling up is once again a completely solo experience, even in group quests there's really no need to have a trinity in there. I played a Cleric which was healing spec'd and didn't need to use a heal the whole adventure, people just ran around bashing stuff like they'd downed a mouthful of superhero juice.

    Now I'm not sure about end game because I haven't got there, but so far it's just another solo quest game with no need for the other players to be around except to be able to call it an MMO.

    Upto what dungeon did you try?

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  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    I just started goofing around in the game and this is one of the questions I had as well. It does make it very hard to get info when people are giving their expertt opinions about the game when they've only made it to lvl 5....
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    I just started goofing around in the game and this is one of the questions I had as well. It does make it very hard to get info when people are giving their expertt opinions about the game when they've only made it to lvl 5....

    many have been playing for months though throughout the closed beta.. also in beta they had a npc that auto leveled you to various levels so you could try out content at various levels depending what that current beta focus was on.  Although some things did change by the last beta weekend like the new way of learning skills.. 

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,293Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vigg

    Does the trinity hold true in Neverwinter?  Does the shield warrior tank?  Is there a need for healing?

     

    Thanks!

    Depends on the dungeon you go in. I've just killed my 1st dragon with a party and the tank that invited me (I'm healer and I was opposing him in PvP earlier today :p) said he needed a good healer who knew how to dodge. The 2 of us with 2 control wizards and a rogue killed it in 'only' 25 minutes. 

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  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    I just started goofing around in the game and this is one of the questions I had as well. It does make it very hard to get info when people are giving their expertt opinions about the game when they've only made it to lvl 5....

    many have been playing for months though throughout the closed beta.. also in beta they had a npc that auto leveled you to various levels so you could try out content at various levels depending what that current beta focus was on.  Although some things did change by the last beta weekend like the new way of learning skills.. 

    Shouldn't those people that have played beta or auto lvl'd know how much the game seems to change at end game and been able to include that in thier post ?

    When someone has only played to lvl 15 or 16 or 20 or whatever they might not want to try and hide that and include it in the info they are giving. These questions ppl ask aren't here so someone can be a know-it-all and wrong. These ppl want to know an answer. If you don't have a full one....don't try and pretend like you do.

    It's those kinds of posters that fill the forums with wrong info and misrepresent games. No one could really argue if a post says " in my experience ( lvl 16 ) you don't need a trinity " No one seems to be arguing that and the op ( and everyone else ) could actually benifit from that post.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    I just started goofing around in the game and this is one of the questions I had as well. It does make it very hard to get info when people are giving their expertt opinions about the game when they've only made it to lvl 5....

    many have been playing for months though throughout the closed beta.. also in beta they had a npc that auto leveled you to various levels so you could try out content at various levels depending what that current beta focus was on.  Although some things did change by the last beta weekend like the new way of learning skills.. 

    Shouldn't those people that have played beta or auto lvl'd know how much the game seems to change at end game and been able to include that in thier post ?

    When someone has only played to lvl 15 or 16 or 20 or whatever they might not want to try and hide that and include it in the info they are giving. These questions ppl ask aren't here so someone can be a know-it-all and wrong. These ppl want to know an answer. If you don't have a full one....don't try and pretend like you do.

    It's those kinds of posters that fill the forums with wrong info and misrepresent games. No one could really argue if a post says " in my experience ( lvl 16 ) you don't need a trinity " No one seems to be arguing that and the op ( and everyone else ) could actually benifit from that post.

    issue with this game is its not as simple as you NEED the trinity.. but in my experience most dungeons post the first one get harder and harder without a set trinity team.. now its possible to complete many of them without a tank in my experience as long as people know how to move and move well and you have a decent cleric + wizard but overall these dungeons were made for a trinity team and run WAY smoother with one.

    But who knows maybe a group of elite expert rogues could tackle every dungeon.. no clue,  just posting on my experience trinity is there and is the way the game was designed around

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,293Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    issue with this game is its not as simple as you NEED the trinity.. but in my experience most dungeons post the first one get harder and harder without a set trinity team.. now its possible to complete many of them without a tank in my experience as long as people know how to move and move well and you have a decent cleric + wizard but overall these dungeons were made for a trinity team and run WAY smoother with one.

    But who knows maybe a group of elite expert rogues could tackle every dungeon.. no clue,  just posting on my experience trinity is there and is the way the game was designed around

    Though most dungeons might be designed around the trinity, the dungeon finder (or skirmis/pvp-finder for that matter) doesn't take the trinity into account. It just picks the first 5 players available that are around the same level and drops them in a party. This would mean that random dungeons on higher levels might become a hell of a lot more difficult...

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