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Jaded, blind or optimistic? Poll

ozmonoozmono Not tellingPosts: 1,211Member

In my last post on these forums I listed ten games that I am interested in and I was considering that even with these ten games (that should offer a pretty broad experience and appeal to more than one type of gamer) there are people who are still complaining that nothing good is happening in our genre. So I figured I would start a poll and hopefully a conversation.


Do you have faith (or reason to believe if you prefer) that the genre will evolve and improve?

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Comments

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon

    I think we've pretty much seen the entirety of the genre and where it can stretch.

    So no hope, what has been done already, can only be polished. Innovation has gone as far as it can in 'our' genre.

    But i do have a slight glimmer of hope for REAL dynamic content, but that's dreaming ahead decades and at the point where those are introduced (think of it as REAL Artificial Intelligence OR millions of lines of code per NPC, not the current 'gaming AI" ), i'll be in a nursing home or pushing daisies.

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • ozmonoozmono Not tellingPosts: 1,211Member
    Originally posted by Fusion

    I think we've pretty much seen the entirety of the genre and where it can stretch.

    So no hope, what has been done already, can only be polished. Innovation has gone as far as it can in 'our' genre.

    But i do have a slight glimmer of hope for REAL dynamic content, but that's dreaming ahead decades and at the point where those are introduced, i'll be in a nursing home..

    I hope I am able to laugh at this in a decade or two but I'm not holding my breath. That said I do think it's shortsighted to varying extents depending on what you class as innovation. I think the genre has lots of room to grow. Hell I think single player games have lots of room to grow and due to technological limitations they've explored more than MMOs.

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ozmono
    Originally posted by Fusion

    I think we've pretty much seen the entirety of the genre and where it can stretch.

    So no hope, what has been done already, can only be polished. Innovation has gone as far as it can in 'our' genre.

    But i do have a slight glimmer of hope for REAL dynamic content, but that's dreaming ahead decades and at the point where those are introduced, i'll be in a nursing home..

    I hope I am able to laugh at this in a decade or two but I'm not holding my breath. That said I do think it's shortsighted to varying extents depending on what you class as innovation. I think the genre has lots of room to grow. Hell I think single player games have lots of room to grow and due to technological limitations they've explored more than MMOs.

    Well, yeah, there are varying 'classes' of innovation depending on the person classifying them :)

    My classification of innovation is a mechaninc never before seen in a game within the genre (and i don't mean gimmicks, like parry to riposte or cover mechanic).

    The genre hasn't really evolved since EQ, we've only seen polish in certain mechanics and ofcourse graphics have evolved, but that's about it IMO.

    "MY innovation examples": EVE online's market system and economy, EQ chat triggers for NPC's, pretty much everything in UO, from free-form skills to non-intanced housing etc.

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • ozmonoozmono Not tellingPosts: 1,211Member
    Originally posted by Fusion
    Originally posted by ozmono
    Originally posted by Fusion

    I think we've pretty much seen the entirety of the genre and where it can stretch.

    So no hope, what has been done already, can only be polished. Innovation has gone as far as it can in 'our' genre.

    But i do have a slight glimmer of hope for REAL dynamic content, but that's dreaming ahead decades and at the point where those are introduced, i'll be in a nursing home..

    I hope I am able to laugh at this in a decade or two but I'm not holding my breath. That said I do think it's shortsighted to varying extents depending on what you class as innovation. I think the genre has lots of room to grow. Hell I think single player games have lots of room to grow and due to technological limitations they've explored more than MMOs.

    Well, yeah, there are varying 'classes' of innovation depending on the person classifying them :)

    My classification of innovation is a mechaninc never before seen in a game (and i don't mean gimmicks, like parry to riposte or cover mechanic).

    The genre hasn't really evolved since EQ, we've only seen polish in certain mechanics and ofcourse graphics have evolved, but that's about it IMO.

    Would you class a roleplaying game that tracked your facial expressions and automatically relayed them into your game characters face? Apparently SOE is developing the technology and already has prototypes.


    What about virtual reality systems? Not only are there headsets being developed but treadmills which can turn a full 360 degrees. That's in the works too.

     

    What about motion detectors as a way to control your character? Considering what microsoft has been doing I don't see that being too far off in a MMO either.


    What about a game that could do all of this?

     

    I would class that as innovation in the genre and that's pretty much just peripherals too but it's all possible in the near future.

    As for gameplay mechanics I am a lot more liberal when classifying what is innovation but even if I were to let you define it for me I would still expect innovation.

  • rockin_uforockin_ufo St. Paul, MNPosts: 377Member Uncommon

    There's a lot of room for improvement, but no developer wants to sit down for years to produce something of such a massive quality. It's always a rehash to make the extra dollar. "Become the next WoW" is a huge cliche, but it's what all new MMO try to be, and as said probably a thousand times; it's why they fail. EQ, DAoC, UO..each catored to a niche crowd of gamers. PvE, PvP, and Roleplay.

    Now we have no real catoring crowd besides one big group called "MMO gamers". But whats been forgotten that there is soo many people apart of this group and games are trying to cator to it all. Latest example; GW2. So many features, catoring to so many players..yet it falls short. Think if it was for one group of gamers, lets say they just made the game very WvW based, like DAoC, the quality would be better and the game would cator to a certain group of gamers that enjoy that style of gameplay. While if SWTOR focused soley on storyline, instead of adding half-assed quests "!", it'd be a huge hit and not a WoW-clone of holy porportions with story added. 

    There's just no variation between MMOs now, it seems like if you played one you played them all. While if you played EQ...totally different from UO. Now play WoW? Even the game that can be considered polar opposite with GW2..you see the underlining similarities that bring it back to the feeling "haven't I done this before?"

    So to me there's two choices: Either put massive resources into a game, many many years of developement to make sure the game is fully polished and innovative. Or make a niche game that cators to a group of gamers and have steady income for a long while. Option 1 is limited by current technology, IMO. Option 2 is a definite possiblity, but no publisher wants to hang onto stangant, low level, profit.

    So we're stuck with Indie games that are half-assed because they can't afford the resources needed because of limited big time publisher support. While I'm not huge into The Repopulation and Camelot Unleashed, I realize if they go onto to have a lot of success more and more of these niche games will come into fruition and that's a great thing for us all!

    Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
    It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
    'cause everyone thinks they're right,
    And nobody thinks that there just might
    Be more than one road to our final destination--

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    I feel that YES.

     

    mmo's started small, became huge, became saturated, started losing profit. aberrations and mutants like f2p, b2p, lifetime, freemiun, partial trials, cash shops, p2p+cash shops started spawning to react to their troubling time. Decline continued and these berrations grew. I feel we're not done declining, because MMOs are so slow to come out, but they will get a lot better.

     

    I feel virtually every major variable has been created in one form or another...now we need an MMO or two or 5 or 10 to combine whats out there into a perfect mix. and I say 1, 2 ,5 ,10 because different tastes will appeal to different people.

     

    but the future belongs to maybe 3 or 4 super--mmos, which will exist side by side. that's my belief. By super-mmos I don't think of them as gigantic but as insanely stable and addicting.

     

    I do not believe EVE is such an MMO, although it's close. I do not believe WoW is such an MMO either, although its much closer.

     

    I think these MMOs werent born yet, and when they get here, they'll surprise us in terms of their origin. we're also probably a decade away from this.

    image

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon

    I have high hopes for the future of MMOs.  It can take years to see changes because of development times but after years of stagnation we are seeing something different on the horizon.  The real change will come in the form of new technologies, not just advancements in graphics or cutscenes.  Then we'll actually see "third generation" MMORPGs.

     

    The other major factor IMO will be getting people closer together.  It has become too easy to segement one's self away from other players and I think this has caused a "meh" sort of attitude towards the games that are out there.

  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower RdamPosts: 1,245Member

    Not realy i think where saddled up with same old for another 5 years at least.

    Revolution or evolution in mmorpgs is slow.

    Lets take AI of mobs and npc's majority of games still have path finding problems and AI is still very limited and there is still absolutely ZERO dynamic AI.

    My wish a gameworld ala skyrim in DX11 screw all old pc's.

    Diverse and realistic world with smart dynamic wheater system and very realistic impact on you and surroundings.

    Little example when starts raining npc's take shelter or use something to cover themselfs if not it have effect on wet clothes and people get sick same go for player, ground get muddy and you start walking slower you get little water pools ext.

    Other example every action you do have a effect on npcs and change there behavior towards you or there surroundings, npc's comepete with you and have there own life cycle.

    Will this soon hyappen maybe in 10 years if ever(discuss?...other topic?)

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    I voted yes..

    Mainly because of kickstarter..

    Finally MMO developers wont be locked into what the AAA publishers think make a good game.. hopefully over the next few years will will start to see new styles of MMORPGs getting released.. not just PVP sandbox games but other types as well. Hopefully we will see the WOW clone disease slowly die away..

     

    So yes I am now looking forward to the future of MMORPGs..

  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member

    I voted yes.  I have played a few games recently that have had newer features.  It doesn't have to grow at a certain rate and the rate of growth will certainly rise and fall over time.  Here are a few things that I have had fun with over the last few years, 

     

    The Foundry.    This new player made content stuff is a blast for me.  I love it.  Making content and playing others content is a lot of fun for me. 

    Voice overs.  They're not always perfect and they can get annoying sometimes, but for someone who likes to soak up the lore in these games, they're a refreshing change from lots of text. 

    Now if you mix these two together, I can see shades of what EQnext might be trying to do with the storybricks thing.  I'm excited for that as well.  

    I also like the offline stuff.  I'm crafting from work right now in Neverwinter.  That's kinda cool and I think there will be more stuff like this in the future.  

     

    There's just a few things off the top of my head that are kinda new and will continue to evolve. 

  • AdamantineAdamantine NowherePosts: 3,514Member

    I see very little that points to improvement right now.

    Tons of games are released, but rarely any of them catches my interest. Most of them are just too shallow and lacking difficulty and gameplay quality.

    I also dont get the demand for "new". As long as there is so much left to be desired about the old stuff, why dont get that old stuff right, first.

    Of course I dont oppose new per se. But I oppose new for being new. New needs to be an innovation, an improvement; in most cases it just isnt, but actually a step backwards.

     

  • rounnerrounner CanberraPosts: 603Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GroovyFlower

    ...screw all old pc's....

    That may be the 'innovation' we need to break the hiatus.

    @OP you mentioned virtual reality and that is a good example of how were not innovating. I remember around 1990 Jerry Springer did an episode with 3D glasses that tracked movement and we were all like yeah cant wait.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,524Member Uncommon

    Yes. Innovation and improvement is all around us, its the amazing world we live in.

    Gaming industry is no different, been playing MMOs since 1999 and still loving it, exciting times :)

     

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon
    We've seen advancement from dice rolling and range combat, to frame based combat. That's a pretty big deal.
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,524Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rounner
    Originally posted by GroovyFlower

    ...screw all old pc's....

    That may be the 'innovation' we need to break the hiatus.

    @OP you mentioned virtual reality and that is a good example of how were not innovating. I remember around 1990 Jerry Springer did an episode with 3D glasses that tracked movement and we were all like yeah cant wait.

    Oculus Rift - I tried it out, its so much above and beyond any other 3D system out there it blew my mind. So it is here, the future is here now, its just not widely distributed yet :)

  • LyrianLyrian Posts: 292Member Uncommon

    As mentioned previously, kickstarter is going to be our major outlet for developing our 'niche' based games allowing for the developers to keep their 'vision' for a game without interferance from the publisher who is fronting the money and who would be able to force changes that the developers wouldn't necessarally agree with or have pictured.

    In the past before we had our 'big hits' of MMOs I think the developers had much more control over their projects, which lead to the games we enjoyed such as EQ, UO, SWG, WoW, etc. With much less investment needed to get a project off the ground the investors could take a risk that if a game flopped, it wouldn't be a crippling hit to the pocket book. This was reflected in the hay-day of the PS1/PS2/N64/PS2/Xbox/Early PC era. Do you all remember going down to blockbuster, ebgames, and just seeing title after title on the shelves? It was almost impossible to keep yourself caught up with the titles that were being released. Not to mention the variety that was present in those games!

    However as the required investment captial went up companies now want to hedge their bets and minimize their risk. It's realistically no different than movie making now. The publishers investing in games now throw tens apon tens of millions of dollars to make a game with the requirement that 'each' game be a smashing hit just to break even (look at kingdom of amalur for an example of requiring millions of sales to break even). So it's lead to following established 'designs that have been proven successful, and following the 'market trend' to cater to the largest market to get the quickest return on investment. Unfortunately from a business perspective making a game that will pay off in the long term over the course of 3-5 years is a bad risk, due to the fact that they cannot predict what the market will be like or that their projected return is no better than if they let that money sit with an investment broker for that period of time. While we are all PC gamers here, I will give a large credit to the stagnation we see in the market to stalled console development, hopefully with the upcoming new consoles we will see a revitialization in new IPs that will bleed into the PC and MMOing world. But that is another topic all together.

    The state of the market is frustrating, espectially when you see only one or two 'hit' titles a year, compared to one or two per month that we experienced until a few years ago. (Even worse when those 'hit' titles are really mediocre crap that has bought good reviews, but that's another topic too.) Unfortunately until the kickstarter trend turns out some positive results we are going to be sitting and twiddling our thumbs and looking at these more shallow titles that we have out now. Hopefully some of the more famous titles on kickstarter will pay off. Such as Pathfinder Online (kinda excited for that!), Greed Monger (Not sure if it'll be for me, but it's interesting!), and all the others out there too.

    Unfortunately until then...I'm catching up on my ebook reading and hoping hard that my hobby will revive itself.

  • pmilespmiles Federal Way, WAPosts: 383Member

    I think they have yet to:

     

    Create a Wii based MMORPG... would be interesting to see someone running in place to move their character, actually have to swing their arms to cast a spell et al.  It could become the next big exercise craze.  I can see the headline now... "Man suffers heart attack while attempting world first boss kill... news at 11."

     

    Full AI NPC characters... you smack that AH NPC with a sword and don't kill him, he's going to chase after you will his friends and hunt you down.  No more of this static pattern of behavior.  Aggro is based on being seen... you ride in on your mechano-hog, everyone will have heard you a mile away.  Out in the wild deer don't stand there waiting to be killed... they sense danger and they are gone.   You piss off the local townsfolk and they put a bounty on your head.

     

    Could probably think of more... I think the Foundry in Neverwinter is a step in the right direction... imagine instead of being given quests, you write your own... ala hologram program... you enter the game after setting the parameters that you would like to do or choose from other player created content.  Imagine the endless possible quests, dungeons, what have you... we are being limited by the developers ideas... the world has a gazillion ideas.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member

    Had to go with "Not Sure", as "faith" indicates some degree of certainty. I have no such certainty. I do have "hope", for sure.

    And *my* definition of "evolve and improve" differs from others :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly genevaPosts: 734Member

    Not sure for me

    I see some positive changes, but same time, many negative too.
    So overall it must be like 0.

    I keep hope though for some positive changes. =D

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    All positive for me.

    In the past decade, MMOs have evolved to become better games with features like LFD, LFR, cross realm stuff.

    And there is an explosion of different gameplay style from traditional themepark MMO, to instanced pvp games like WOT, to ARPGs with MMO elements, to tie-in to tv shows.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    I'm apathetic about the future of MMO's.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • ozmonoozmono Not tellingPosts: 1,211Member
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Had to go with "Not Sure", as "faith" indicates some degree of certainty. I have no such certainty. I do have "hope", for sure.

    And *my* definition of "evolve and improve" differs from others :)

    :)

    I did put "or reason to believe if you prefer" in brackets in a hope to counteract that and subsequently to induce more responses.


     

    As for your definition, it doesn't matter that it differs from others, it's each individuals perception that matters.

     

  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common
    Great majority of changes in mmorpg's in last at least 5 years, present and foreseable future are negative.  Of course if you look hard enough you'll be able to find some positives, but as far as I am concerned they never were so small and rare.
  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member

    i would like to say there is hope and to be fair for the newer breed of MMO player the game comeing out are probaly all right, ubt you know what, i wont be happy agian until i can RP in a game in a area that was made mainly for RP without haveing to worry about someone comeing along and ganking me.

    i know it sounds sily but i miss my virtual worlds, yes i enjoy some of the game there are, and i can live without RP in some, heck most, but i really want somewhere i can go that i can RP and enjoy myself and not fill my RP is restricted by the layout of the game or the mechanics,

    i havent really found one since CoH went down, but then agian maybe im the issue and im being to picky about things.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • ozmonoozmono Not tellingPosts: 1,211Member
    Originally posted by Squeak69

    i would like to say there is hope and to be fair for the newer breed of MMO player the game comeing out are probaly all right, ubt you know what, i wont be happy agian until i can RP in a game in a area that was made mainly for RP without haveing to worry about someone comeing along and ganking me.

    i know it sounds sily but i miss my virtual worlds, yes i enjoy some of the game there are, and i can live without RP in some, heck most, but i really want somewhere i can go that i can RP and enjoy myself and not fill my RP is restricted by the layout of the game or the mechanics,

    i havent really found one since CoH went down, but then agian maybe im the issue and im being to picky about things.

    I know how you feel and it's the reason I currently volunteer for a game called legends of aryiure which plans to have roleplaying as it's center piece. It will require all players to roleplay with GMs enforcing it. The whole game revolves around roleplaying. The games team is made up of the remnants of an older game called Adellion which never happened. It's all volunteer based at the moment and the community which has been waiting for Adellion and now LoA for so long has become a little quite but if you are interested in such things check it out. Or better yet if you have the passion and the skills I'm sure there would be a place for you on the team.

    http://www.legendsofaryiure.com

    http://www.legendsofaryiure.com/forums/index.php

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