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Why is this video game concept always lacking in MMOs?
Dhaenon
Member UncommonPosts: 150
The concept of one person, or a small group versus an entire army! The concept of power.
Force Unleashed, one badass Sith killing his way through a star destroyer in order to confront a Jedi master.
Batman: Arkham Asylum, one superhero fighting his way through a horde of escaped psychotics in order to confront a super villain.
Mass Effect, a squad of 3 soldiers fighting their way across a planet to confront a gargantuan planet destroying ship-monster.
MMOs
World of Warcraft, leveling to godlike power in order to fight a boar who also has godlike power... but only one at a time, or maybe two because 3 or more boars would murder you.
SWTOR, one badass Sith (and his pocket healer) killing a single criminal (he has a gold star next to his head so that means he is strooooong)... and praying that he doesn't call for any backup.
I was a huge fan of MMOs for 10 years or so, but now I am starting to think they are just horrible. Each new release is worst than the last.
Comments
Apparently you have not played age of Conan with their minion system, or City of Heroes man ohh man the herds we used to pull. Heck even some of the battles and story mode encounters in GW2 give a sense of epic confrontation where you are battling armies.
There are several games that have done what your talking about quite well. Hmm last one that comes to mind is tabula rasa with their NPC raids.
i think one of the problems why you don't see this alot though is due to the fact that so many people seem to really mainly want PVP or RVR. Which means balanced battles.
This guy kind of know what he's talking about. What the OP desires exists in many games. How could you miss it?
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
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I played Age of Conan very shortly as well. Back when it first came out. This minion system you mention does sound interesting. I personally feel that is how a game should be. Fight a large group of minions, all at once and then face off against a more challenging foe, 1v1.
I played City of Heroes for a very long time, and that is what I am talking about. You bust into a place, and fight your way through a horde of monsters. I agree with this game as an example of what I enjoy. However, it has been shut down.
I only played GW2 for a little while, but I am pretty sure I remember fighting one monster a time through most of it. Perhaps there are these epic confrontations you are talking about but yes, I must have missed it.
I was never able to play Tabula Rasa because it was shut down before I got to it.
You do understand the concept I am talking about though right? You are suppose to be some extraordinaire PC but most of the time you seem weak.
I definitely get your point.
It just doesn't seem right in my own fantasy setting that you're an incredible skilled murdering machine and that it takes as long to kill a boar at max lvl then at lvl 1. A boar is a boar, nothing special about it..
However, if they replaced the boars with lets say 'an elite squad of well trained assassins' then that would make sense having a tough battle 1 on 1.
I want a minion system. Where I fight through waves of weak minions to face a boss in an equal match of skill.
Housing
Customization
Storyline
Co-op dungeon crawling awesomeness.
I am beginning to fear that MMOs just are not that, anymore.
Lots of games have you go fight against thousands of random mobs, but only one or two at a time. Or there's the classic dungeon instance approach where your group of 5 has to kill about a hundred mobs that split up into groups of three and wait to be pulled.
How many single player games have you by yourself fight against hundreds of mobs at once? Or even dozens of mobs simultaneously, as opposed to one at a time?
Champions Online commonly has you fight mobs that are weaker than you, so even the solo content is designed to feature a bunch of 1 on 4 battles. Go to group content and it tends to be more even numbers, however, as they make the mobs much stronger.
Spiral Knights will throw overwhelming numbers at you in some spots so that you can fight 1 on 12 or some such, and mostly run around dodging. Of course, if you have a group, then it's now 4 on 12.
All of that from just two MMO's?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
It's not really a MMO more of a ARPG but Marvel Heroes does minon's really well IMO. It's pretty satisfing seeing the hulk send whole packs of them flying with a jump.
Large packs of mobs are difficult to balance in a MMO from what I have seen. If you have a strong AOE agro tank and a couple good AOE dps classes you burn them down so quickly they don't matter where on the other hand if your tank is more focused to single target agro and your lacking in AOE DPS you end up have contol issues. It's much easier to balance one really big bad named that might use adds as flavor than it is to balance a ton of smaller mobs.
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
ARPGs like DIablo 3, PoE, Torchlight 2 ... are what you are looking for.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
SP vs MMO
two entirely diffrent beasts, one needs to be balenced for fair play the other is a game where long as you have fun thats all that matters and balenceing be damned.
this is a bit of a old issue, and also there are MMOs out there that do resolve this, and in the end you could always go back to lower level zones and kills things in mass if you wants.
even in most books and movies this dont happen as its not fun to watch someone just kill something by the dozen it gets boring after a bit, people want to see a hard fight instead.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
I think the big limitation that most MMOs have to overcome is their reliance on tanks using agro control and hyper specialized roles which have been promoted for years. There's nothing fun about it, it gimps gameplay and forms it into something that doesn't work on a grand scale.
Another issue is that they never make a fundamental system where strong units and week units can participate in a competitive manner. MMOs use too much threshold mechanics. If balance was generated so a strong player could fight 2 normal players on even terms or 4 weak players, or 1 normal player could face 2 weak players, there would be a fundamental scaling to challenge players at any level. Strong players could solo hard content and team up for super hard content, but weak players could face that same content in greater numbers and utilizing more specialization and teamwork.
The way it is now, 20 LVL 5s couldn't beat one LVL 20 because he takes no damage while one shotting groups of them.
A game which relies more on tactics and action input rather than character development to defeat foes could remove these thresholds and make a system with proportionate power that can be summed by a combination of various levels. And in so doing, make content which scales from grouping up to fight foes, to fighting them alone, to facing a hoard on your own, even with the same content, and even more importanty, in PvP as well.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
In the single player games, it matters to nobody else if you single-handedly wipe out an entire planet. There are no other players that are affected.
In MMOs, you now have many, many players that can be affected by another player's actions. This sometimes happened in the old MMOs when a high level player would literally clear out starting zones of all creatures and NPCs alike leaving nothing for the new players to do.
MMOs were also about "teamwork." They were set up so that no one singular player could take down the massive dragon at the end of the game. They needed help, so they asked other players to lend a hand, thus helping to form a community of sorts.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Err is it lacking... I know that often you go one on one or your group might fight another smaller group of mobs. But I've quite often taken on larger groups, alone or in a group or with a raid. And isnt going through a dungeon like a jedi or sith going through a star destroyer... You are never fighting all of them at once.
Ok so you want to fling minions aside and blast hundreds with lightning.. I dont personally like my MMOs that way... It doesnt Jive with me when everyone is a superhero or a demigod. I would, by far, prefer the other extreme of my character just being some Average Joe. Because, to me, it does seem so special when everyone else is doing same godlike thing.
Its fine when you are playing a single or multi player game. Because then you are the only one doing that.
So.. It really isnt lacking.. unless you crave throngs of throwaway minions to be crushed by your awesome power.
And it also doesn't have to be super saiyan 4 to grant a powerful feel, dueling one for at a time in quick succession is interesting, moreso when your in a group of said number fighting an equal said number of foes, with new foes replacing every felled one.
A group of players can thrash an even larger hoard, there's no point debating it because it already exists in many dungeon crawls and action packed online games, GW and Vindictus display this just fine.
Since when is it only epic for a rag tag group to defeat a dragon? What about a dragon overcoming a team of slayers? Gameplay needs to find a way to include a spectrum of challenge, not artificially limit ourselves to the challenges yesterday accepted only because of technological limitations. We can feature both in a modern, more advanced stage of gameplay.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
lol, yeag I've noticed this as well. LOTRO has this. You can be the top level but you will fight
dum dum dummmmm!!!!!
birds.
If I was in ownership of a game I would fire the people who made this decision.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Lineage Eternal comes out next year I think. This might be something you would be interested in..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11esIGz1RE8
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Honestly, why are there even herbivores and neutral life used as foes at all, there shouldn't have been worms or bees or rabbits in the game at all, or at least not as combatable opponents...
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
I really liked the Skill chains in FFXI. Loved it actually.
I suppose when it would come to party play, I would like to have a more interesting dungeon. The "pull this group, then this group, then one boss fight" is just boring. Since it is in EVERY dungeon.
I felt like SWTOR missed an amazing opportunity to change this. Imagine a dungeon where you go in, the Jedi has to confront the Sith, and fight him just to buy time, while the Smuggler has to get his ship up and running, while the Trooper handles a huge crowd of soldiers. Then the Trooper has to fight his way to help the Smuggler, who then fires up his ship, they swoop in and rescue the Jedi. All three now have to fly the ship / shoot the guns to escape the star destroyer. CLASSIC Star Wars.
Why must it always be the same hack and slash dungeon system. Very bored with it.
Asheron's Call is my favorite for that kind of stuff.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre