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Free to Play is the future of the MMO genre and pay to play is a scam

TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon

Free to Play is the future. It is mainstream, and where all the money is. Free to Play (or other forms of it, like freemium or buy to play (free to play, but still have to spend a one time fee as an entry) are FAR more popular and successful than any pay to play MMO. Even successful MMOs like EVE or WoW, barely make a dent in the free to play MMOs. SWTOR would have died if it didn't go free, same with LOTR, DDO or any other conversions.

 

While EVE and WoW are successful, the pay to play payment model is going to be within 10 years (and that is being liberal about it), going to be a very niche or even extinct market.

 

One way pay to play models can survive are deals. But even this won't last Which some do have, deals like Rift. Restaurants often have special offers where you can buy a certain food item, for a much bigger discount. This is very successful. An MMO can offer a 10 dollar per month (no, not 30 dollars for every 3 months, but actually 10 dollars per 1 month). This could delay the extinction of pay to play models. Most MMOs force you to spend 15 dollars, and most people just don't want to spend that kind of money. Or the 30 dollars "special" offer for 3 months...which seems like a con. Why not offer it for every daily month. Then if someone unsubs, the offer is removed from their account.

But, even if p2p offer great deals every month (which would help them greatly)...in this world economy. most people just don't want to spend that money every month. Or many people work 6 jobs a week to pay their mortage, bills, rent and taxes...even if they had the money, a 15 dollar subscription goes wasted

Pay to play has always been rather niche however. WoW being the exception, but many free MMOs are far better. TERA and Aion are the most free of the freemiums, and even Guild Wars 2 shows that you don't need a monthly fee or a pay to win cash shop to succeed. In fact, GW2 is the best example of a massive, probably largest MMO out there...that shows that monthly fees are just not needed. Its cash shop has no IWin items, its all vanity or convience.

Why can GW2 do this, but pay to play MMOs still offer the prehistoric pay every month model, and offer far less content and much smaller patches? WoW it can take 3-4 months for a patch to come out. You get done with the content in less than a day. GW2, there is patches happening all the time and its the biggest game there. All surviving on the box and non-IWin cash shop.

 

MMOs like SWTOR, LOTR, DDO, TERA, Aion (among many others) and GW2 show that the pay to play model is a scam. It is outdated, and will become even more niche than it ever was. There is no reason to pay for an MMO every month, when you can get far more content every month in GW2, or amazing combat of TERA or the very free Aion. Or SWTOR for the great story. And heck, LOTR and DDO let you earn points in-game so you don't even need to spend any money. And they are all surviving, and doing far better than any pay to play MMO.

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Comments

  • mannymanmannyman londonPosts: 69Member

    Cool

    i pay monthly to play wow and am perfectly happy with it, as are millions others.

    mention McDonald's ans you lose folks, remember that!

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member

    As Devil's Advocate:

    Are you then suggesting that any smart mmo company will copy what all the other mmos are doing if they want to be successful?

    In my opinion, the next runaway hit will develop a model as yet, untried. 

     

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Posts: 1,178Member Uncommon

    The only reason why games even consider this so called ( free ) to play is because there are millions of suckers out there willing to spend more than 15 bucks a month on crappy items from a in game shop. trust me i dont blame the companys for doing it, they are here to make money. in the end its the players fault for what has happened to MMOs. im still happy paying 12 bucks a month for Asherons Call. i have tried those ( free ) games and its laughable how much you have to spend to take part in the so called ( end game ).

     

    I would also like to add, if a game is free but gives the option to pay the monthly fee to get access to everything like age of conan does, then thats cool with me. as long as i am able to get everything in game that people buy in the shop. i dont mind earning it where others would rather just pay for it then be bored later.

    but these korean grinders that are free and you pretty much HAVE to buy shop items to have a chance in end game pvp and such those are a huge scam.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Pay 2 Play is a dieing business model.  It's like Mercantilism of the 18th century when the only country using it was Britain.  So in essence WoW is the Britain of 21st century MMO genre.  Eventually everyone will come around to this new fangled system called Capitilism (F2P).

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member
    I totally agree, I would much rather spend 30 or 40 a month for part of a game then spend 15 a month for the whole game.  I mean, I have math on my side here.........
  • Jerek_Jerek_ tulsa, OKPosts: 409Member
    lets say thats all true and pay to play will be very niche.  So, just like it was before the invasion wow and f2p players?  Greatest thing that coud possibly happen.  MMO players can go back to doing our thing the way we want and the f2p masses can move along.  Even better, MMORPG could then make a f2p site like they have for rts and fps and we can all be seperate communities that don't have to listen to each other.
  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    The only reason why games even consider this so called ( free ) to play is because there are millions of suckers out there willing to spend more than 15 bucks a month on crappy items from a in game shop. trust me i dont blame the companys for doing it, they are here to make money. in the end its the players fault for what has happened to MMOs. im still happy paying 12 bucks a month for Asherons Call. i have tried those ( free ) games and its laughable how much you have to spend to take part in the so called ( end game ).

    I love AC too but thats another game that is in desperate need of new players I quit last year because of the lack of a player population.  Giving it a F2P option would garner thousands of new players and liven up the stale playerbase.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    I totally agree, I would much rather spend 30 or 40 a month for part of a game then spend 15 a month for the whole game.  I mean, I have math on my side here.........

    I don't spend that much on free to play MMOs. I spend 5-10 dollars at the very most, on GW2 or SWTOR (the two main MMOs I'm playing). I by far, spend much less (if at all) than pay to play MMOs.

     

    (edit: to add, WoW players spent 25+ dollars on WoW's cash shop. I think many spent 50 dollars in one go, when they had their vanity pet and mount offers.)

    image
  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Posts: 1,178Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    I totally agree, I would much rather spend 30 or 40 a month for part of a game then spend 15 a month for the whole game.  I mean, I have math on my side here.........

    I don't spend that much on free to play MMOs. I spend 5-10 dollars at the very most, on GW2 or SWTOR (the two main MMOs I'm playing). I by far, spend much less (if at all) than pay to play MMOs.

     

    (edit: to add, WoW players spent 25+ dollars on WoW's cash shop. I think many spent 50 dollars in one go, when they had their vanity pet and mount offers.)

     does GW2 have a cash shop now? i thought it was spend money once on the game and then free after that?

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,684Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zorgo

    In my opinion, the next runaway hit will develop a model as yet, untried.  

    Definitely not.  New payment models are extremely rare.

    Even F2P is largely just a slight evolution of shareware ("This part of the game is free; this part you have to pay for.")

    The next runaway hit will develop new gameplay not a new business model. Depending on how you slice it this has already happened (LoL).

    Either you say "new things are new" and LoL is the new thing to surpass WOW, or you say "only old things can be new!" which results in the same sort of nonsense Blizzard also experienced with Starcraft: Brood War where nobody really surpassed that RTS's success but where those players clearly trickled out to other genres (genres with new gameplay.)  

    Between you and me, saying only the old things (MMORPGs) can be new is a little weird.  It's gotta be exactly like the games I played before (it must be a MMORPG) but it's gotta be totally different too!  Common theme of genre stagnation.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    I totally agree, I would much rather spend 30 or 40 a month for part of a game then spend 15 a month for the whole game.  I mean, I have math on my side here.........

    I don't spend that much on free to play MMOs. I spend 5-10 dollars at the very most, on GW2 or SWTOR (the two main MMOs I'm playing). I by far, spend much less (if at all) than pay to play MMOs.

     

    (edit: to add, WoW players spent 25+ dollars on WoW's cash shop. I think many spent 50 dollars in one go, when they had their vanity pet and mount offers.)

     does GW2 have a cash shop now? i thought it was spend money once on the game and then free after that?

    Like WoW and EVE (well, did EVE remove their monocole? That was very expensive, more than what WoW offered)...almost all of it is vanity. its always had one.

    And not to do with the quote...

    Pay to Play MMOs have cash shops too as I mentioned. Which add even more to the scam. WoW has very expensive vanity pets (25 for each one last I looked, and 50 for a mount)...EVE had their monocole and other cash shop items which were more expensive than what WoW offered. Lots of pay to play MMOs have cash shops. Might as well be free.

    image
  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

     I do not think any single of those f2p titles is making more than WoW, as you claim. 

     

    I will agree with you on some things though, a lot of the recent p2p mmos are crap, so if you want to call that a scam, sure....I won't argue, even though scam is not really the right word....poor value, shotty, shallow, not even worth playing if it was f2p, with no cash shop....yeah....

     

     

    I think true f2p is gnerally flawed, where you pray on 10%, or scam, since it is the theme, of your customers, and let 90% deadbeats piggyback on the 10%....It very often leads to p2w, not always, but often enough.

     

    B2p has not proven it is viable long term yet, but atleast on the face of it, it is a little more honest imo....We will see if it has to turn to more often than not, becoming p2w or not.

     

    P2p generally has a more even playing field imo, but they too can often become greedy and do cash shop items that they should  not also.  It is easier for them to stay cosmetic though, imo.

     

     

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Posts: 1,178Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    I totally agree, I would much rather spend 30 or 40 a month for part of a game then spend 15 a month for the whole game.  I mean, I have math on my side here.........

    I don't spend that much on free to play MMOs. I spend 5-10 dollars at the very most, on GW2 or SWTOR (the two main MMOs I'm playing). I by far, spend much less (if at all) than pay to play MMOs.

     

    (edit: to add, WoW players spent 25+ dollars on WoW's cash shop. I think many spent 50 dollars in one go, when they had their vanity pet and mount offers.)

     does GW2 have a cash shop now? i thought it was spend money once on the game and then free after that?

    Like WoW and EVE (well, did EVE remove their monocole? That was very expensive, more than what WoW offered)...almost all of it is vanity. its always had one.

    And not to do with the quote...

    Pay to Play MMOs have cash shops too as I mentioned. Which add even more to the scam. WoW has very expensive vanity pets (25 for each one last I looked, and 50 for a mount)...EVE had their monocole and other cash shop items which were more expensive than what WoW offered. Lots of pay to play MMOs have cash shops. Might as well be free.

     but those are just vanity items that have zero impact on the game, the problem i have found is when you have items in the shop that you can ONLY get by spending real money and those items impact the game. this gives people a huge advantage in the game over people who dont spend the money.

    but there are really 2 kinds of ( free ) games out there. ones that let players pay a monthly fee and they can get everything in the game just like the people who would rather buy it with real money.

    and ( free ) games that dont have a monthly sub option and you must spend big bucks in the item shop to compete with others and if u dont you get mopped up in pvp/sieges, or end game pve.

  • AyulinAyulin Mt marion, NYPosts: 334Member

    Meanwhile, back in reality...

    Here's the funny thing...

    People have been declaring that F2P "is the future" for about half a decade now. They declared that within a few years, P2P would be a thing of the past and F2P would be "the one revenue model to rule them all". They were wrong.

    Here we are 5 years later, and people are still making that same prediction. F2P is the future. Subs are dying. They're wrong now. Subs are still a viable revenue model.

    5 years from now, people will still be predicting F2P is the future and Subs are dying. They'll still be wrong then, for all the same reasons.

    Want to know why subs aren't giong anywhere? Want to know why subs have remained a popular and even necessary revenue model for a number of MMOs? Want to know why many F2P MMOs also include an option for monthly subscriptions (which they call "premium accounts" or "memberships" or what-have-you; same thing, different name)?

    If you guessed "because subs aren't dying, and many people still prefer them over the alternatives", give yourself a cookie and a pat on the back, because you guessed right.

    Subs and F2P and B2P with a Cash Shop will sit right along side each other for the years to come. Each will have its own dedicated following. Each will remain a viable revenue model. They're not going anywhere. May as well get used to it.

    Of course, 5 years from now, we'll be having this same exact conversation, people will still be making the same predictions, and they'll still be wrong; because some people just will never get it through their heads.

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    I totally agree, I would much rather spend 30 or 40 a month for part of a game then spend 15 a month for the whole game.  I mean, I have math on my side here.........

    I don't spend that much on free to play MMOs. I spend 5-10 dollars at the very most, on GW2 or SWTOR (the two main MMOs I'm playing). I by far, spend much less (if at all) than pay to play MMOs.

     

    (edit: to add, WoW players spent 25+ dollars on WoW's cash shop. I think many spent 50 dollars in one go, when they had their vanity pet and mount offers.)

     does GW2 have a cash shop now? i thought it was spend money once on the game and then free after that?

    Like WoW and EVE (well, did EVE remove their monocole? That was very expensive, more than what WoW offered)...almost all of it is vanity. its always had one.

    And not to do with the quote...

    Pay to Play MMOs have cash shops too as I mentioned. Which add even more to the scam. WoW has very expensive vanity pets (25 for each one last I looked, and 50 for a mount)...EVE had their monocole and other cash shop items which were more expensive than what WoW offered. Lots of pay to play MMOs have cash shops. Might as well be free.

     but those are just vanity items that have zero impact on the game, the problem i have found is when you have items in the shop that you can ONLY get by spending real money and those items impact the game. this gives people a huge advantage in the game over people who dont spend the money.

    but there are really 2 kinds of ( free ) games out there. ones that let players pay a monthly fee and they can get everything in the game just like the people who would rather buy it with real money.

    and ( free ) games that dont have a monthly sub option and you must spend big bucks in the item shop to compete with others and if u dont you get mopped up in pvp/sieges, or end game pve.

    GW2, Aion and TERA have only vanity items, and don't cost any monthly payment.

    image
  • AyulinAyulin Mt marion, NYPosts: 334Member
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    I totally agree, I would much rather spend 30 or 40 a month for part of a game then spend 15 a month for the whole game.  I mean, I have math on my side here.........

    I don't spend that much on free to play MMOs. I spend 5-10 dollars at the very most, on GW2 or SWTOR (the two main MMOs I'm playing). I by far, spend much less (if at all) than pay to play MMOs.

     

    (edit: to add, WoW players spent 25+ dollars on WoW's cash shop. I think many spent 50 dollars in one go, when they had their vanity pet and mount offers.)

     does GW2 have a cash shop now? i thought it was spend money once on the game and then free after that?

    Like WoW and EVE (well, did EVE remove their monocole? That was very expensive, more than what WoW offered)...almost all of it is vanity. its always had one.

    And not to do with the quote...

    Pay to Play MMOs have cash shops too as I mentioned. Which add even more to the scam. WoW has very expensive vanity pets (25 for each one last I looked, and 50 for a mount)...EVE had their monocole and other cash shop items which were more expensive than what WoW offered. Lots of pay to play MMOs have cash shops. Might as well be free.

     but those are just vanity items that have zero impact on the game, the problem i have found is when you have items in the shop that you can ONLY get by spending real money and those items impact the game. this gives people a huge advantage in the game over people who dont spend the money.

    but there are really 2 kinds of ( free ) games out there. ones that let players pay a monthly fee and they can get everything in the game just like the people who would rather buy it with real money.

    and ( free ) games that dont have a monthly sub option and you must spend big bucks in the item shop to compete with others and if u dont you get mopped up in pvp/sieges, or end game pve.

    GW2, Aion and TERA have only vanity items, and don't cost any monthly payment.

    Either you're deliberately misrepresenting those games, or you need to do some more research.

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ayulin
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    I totally agree, I would much rather spend 30 or 40 a month for part of a game then spend 15 a month for the whole game.  I mean, I have math on my side here.........

    I don't spend that much on free to play MMOs. I spend 5-10 dollars at the very most, on GW2 or SWTOR (the two main MMOs I'm playing). I by far, spend much less (if at all) than pay to play MMOs.

     

    (edit: to add, WoW players spent 25+ dollars on WoW's cash shop. I think many spent 50 dollars in one go, when they had their vanity pet and mount offers.)

     does GW2 have a cash shop now? i thought it was spend money once on the game and then free after that?

    Like WoW and EVE (well, did EVE remove their monocole? That was very expensive, more than what WoW offered)...almost all of it is vanity. its always had one.

    And not to do with the quote...

    Pay to Play MMOs have cash shops too as I mentioned. Which add even more to the scam. WoW has very expensive vanity pets (25 for each one last I looked, and 50 for a mount)...EVE had their monocole and other cash shop items which were more expensive than what WoW offered. Lots of pay to play MMOs have cash shops. Might as well be free.

     but those are just vanity items that have zero impact on the game, the problem i have found is when you have items in the shop that you can ONLY get by spending real money and those items impact the game. this gives people a huge advantage in the game over people who dont spend the money.

    but there are really 2 kinds of ( free ) games out there. ones that let players pay a monthly fee and they can get everything in the game just like the people who would rather buy it with real money.

    and ( free ) games that dont have a monthly sub option and you must spend big bucks in the item shop to compete with others and if u dont you get mopped up in pvp/sieges, or end game pve.

    GW2, Aion and TERA have only vanity items, and don't cost any monthly payment.

    Either you're deliberately misrepresenting those games, or you need to do some more research.

    There isn't any Iwin items in GW2 or TERA. Maybe Aion, as I haven't played it in a while...I know a month back it was the most free MMO and then TERA took that title.

     

    But you can't buy weapons or armor in GW2 (weapons/armor don't mean that much anyway). And nearly all of it is vanity, except some exp boosters, but that isn't a pay to win item. Can you take a screenshot of this supposed item in GW2 that makes you win?

    image
  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Free to Play is the future. It is mainstream, and where all the money is. Free to Play (or other forms of it, like freemium or buy to play (free to play, but still have to spend a one time fee as an entry) are FAR more popular and successful than any pay to play MMO. Even successful MMOs like EVE or WoW, barely make a dent in the free to play MMOs. SWTOR would have died if it didn't go free, same with LOTR, DDO or any other conversions.

     

    While EVE and WoW are successful, the pay to play payment model is going to be within 10 years (and that is being liberal about it), going to be a very niche or even extinct market.

     

    One way pay to play models can survive are deals. But even this won't last Which some do have, deals like Rift. Restaurants often have special offers where you can buy a certain food item, for a much bigger discount. This is very successful. An MMO can offer a 10 dollar per month (no, not 30 dollars for every 3 months, but actually 10 dollars per 1 month). This could delay the extinction of pay to play models. Most MMOs force you to spend 15 dollars, and most people just don't want to spend that kind of money. Or the 30 dollars "special" offer for 3 months...which seems like a con. Why not offer it for every daily month. Then if someone unsubs, the offer is removed from their account.

    But, even if p2p offer great deals every month (which would help them greatly)...in this world economy. most people just don't want to spend that money every month. Or many people work 6 jobs a week to pay their mortage, bills, rent and taxes...even if they had the money, a 15 dollar subscription goes wasted

    Pay to play has always been rather niche however. WoW being the exception, but many free MMOs are far better. TERA and Aion are the most free of the freemiums, and even Guild Wars 2 shows that you don't need a monthly fee or a pay to win cash shop to succeed. In fact, GW2 is the best example of a massive, probably largest MMO out there...that shows that monthly fees are just not needed. Its cash shop has no IWin items, its all vanity or convience.

    Why can GW2 do this, but pay to play MMOs still offer the prehistoric pay every month model, and offer far less content and much smaller patches? WoW it can take 3-4 months for a patch to come out. You get done with the content in less than a day. GW2, there is patches happening all the time and its the biggest game there. All surviving on the box and non-IWin cash shop.

     

    MMOs like SWTOR, LOTR, DDO, TERA, Aion (among many others) and GW2 show that the pay to play model is a scam. It is outdated, and will become even more niche than it ever was. There is no reason to pay for an MMO every month, when you can get far more content every month in GW2, or amazing combat of TERA or the very free Aion. Or SWTOR for the great story. And heck, LOTR and DDO let you earn points in-game so you don't even need to spend any money. And they are all surviving, and doing far better than any pay to play MMO.

    Subscription has always been a better deal for the gamer, if the products good enough. If not, it should die out, that's how a competitive market should work.  Hopefully in time something better comes along.

    Unfortunetly developers got wise and realised they didn't have to make quality MMOs. They just had to appeal to a couple of thousand diehards, (with the same recycled game mechanics), with more money then sense and keep churning out cash shop crap for them to buy.

    So congratulations; your a new market to exploit. Day one DLC, UI unlocks, Resource unlocks, cash shop barriers etc, etc...that's all thanks to F2P and it'll only get worse. This is the new gold rush for MMOs.

    It's funny all those years ago when there was the, 'first gold rush', after WoW, I never thought the next would be within the payment model side. Many people hate the influence WoW had, but I think this will be far more damaging.

    If there's one thing I'm nostalgic for, it's the days of subbing for three different MMOs at once... 

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Posts: 1,178Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    I totally agree, I would much rather spend 30 or 40 a month for part of a game then spend 15 a month for the whole game.  I mean, I have math on my side here.........

    I don't spend that much on free to play MMOs. I spend 5-10 dollars at the very most, on GW2 or SWTOR (the two main MMOs I'm playing). I by far, spend much less (if at all) than pay to play MMOs.

     

    (edit: to add, WoW players spent 25+ dollars on WoW's cash shop. I think many spent 50 dollars in one go, when they had their vanity pet and mount offers.)

     does GW2 have a cash shop now? i thought it was spend money once on the game and then free after that?

    Like WoW and EVE (well, did EVE remove their monocole? That was very expensive, more than what WoW offered)...almost all of it is vanity. its always had one.

    And not to do with the quote...

    Pay to Play MMOs have cash shops too as I mentioned. Which add even more to the scam. WoW has very expensive vanity pets (25 for each one last I looked, and 50 for a mount)...EVE had their monocole and other cash shop items which were more expensive than what WoW offered. Lots of pay to play MMOs have cash shops. Might as well be free.

     but those are just vanity items that have zero impact on the game, the problem i have found is when you have items in the shop that you can ONLY get by spending real money and those items impact the game. this gives people a huge advantage in the game over people who dont spend the money.

    but there are really 2 kinds of ( free ) games out there. ones that let players pay a monthly fee and they can get everything in the game just like the people who would rather buy it with real money.

    and ( free ) games that dont have a monthly sub option and you must spend big bucks in the item shop to compete with others and if u dont you get mopped up in pvp/sieges, or end game pve.

    GW2, Aion and TERA have only vanity items, and don't cost any monthly payment.

     are you sure about this? so in each one of those games i can d/l it for free and play the entire game without spending a single dollar on content or anything. and IF i wanted to spend money its only for vanity items?

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Free to Play is the future. It is mainstream, and where all the money is. Free to Play (or other forms of it, like freemium or buy to play (free to play, but still have to spend a one time fee as an entry) are FAR more popular and successful than any pay to play MMO. Even successful MMOs like EVE or WoW, barely make a dent in the free to play MMOs. SWTOR would have died if it didn't go free, same with LOTR, DDO or any other conversions.

     

    While EVE and WoW are successful, the pay to play payment model is going to be within 10 years (and that is being liberal about it), going to be a very niche or even extinct market.

     

    One way pay to play models can survive are deals. But even this won't last Which some do have, deals like Rift. Restaurants often have special offers where you can buy a certain food item, for a much bigger discount. This is very successful. An MMO can offer a 10 dollar per month (no, not 30 dollars for every 3 months, but actually 10 dollars per 1 month). This could delay the extinction of pay to play models. Most MMOs force you to spend 15 dollars, and most people just don't want to spend that kind of money. Or the 30 dollars "special" offer for 3 months...which seems like a con. Why not offer it for every daily month. Then if someone unsubs, the offer is removed from their account.

    But, even if p2p offer great deals every month (which would help them greatly)...in this world economy. most people just don't want to spend that money every month. Or many people work 6 jobs a week to pay their mortage, bills, rent and taxes...even if they had the money, a 15 dollar subscription goes wasted

    Pay to play has always been rather niche however. WoW being the exception, but many free MMOs are far better. TERA and Aion are the most free of the freemiums, and even Guild Wars 2 shows that you don't need a monthly fee or a pay to win cash shop to succeed. In fact, GW2 is the best example of a massive, probably largest MMO out there...that shows that monthly fees are just not needed. Its cash shop has no IWin items, its all vanity or convience.

    Why can GW2 do this, but pay to play MMOs still offer the prehistoric pay every month model, and offer far less content and much smaller patches? WoW it can take 3-4 months for a patch to come out. You get done with the content in less than a day. GW2, there is patches happening all the time and its the biggest game there. All surviving on the box and non-IWin cash shop.

     

    MMOs like SWTOR, LOTR, DDO, TERA, Aion (among many others) and GW2 show that the pay to play model is a scam. It is outdated, and will become even more niche than it ever was. There is no reason to pay for an MMO every month, when you can get far more content every month in GW2, or amazing combat of TERA or the very free Aion. Or SWTOR for the great story. And heck, LOTR and DDO let you earn points in-game so you don't even need to spend any money. And they are all surviving, and doing far better than any pay to play MMO.

    You have fun, getting nickle and dimed is AWESOME! I will stick to my monthly sub.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by TheScavenger
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    I totally agree, I would much rather spend 30 or 40 a month for part of a game then spend 15 a month for the whole game.  I mean, I have math on my side here.........

    I don't spend that much on free to play MMOs. I spend 5-10 dollars at the very most, on GW2 or SWTOR (the two main MMOs I'm playing). I by far, spend much less (if at all) than pay to play MMOs.

     

    (edit: to add, WoW players spent 25+ dollars on WoW's cash shop. I think many spent 50 dollars in one go, when they had their vanity pet and mount offers.)

     does GW2 have a cash shop now? i thought it was spend money once on the game and then free after that?

    Like WoW and EVE (well, did EVE remove their monocole? That was very expensive, more than what WoW offered)...almost all of it is vanity. its always had one.

    And not to do with the quote...

    Pay to Play MMOs have cash shops too as I mentioned. Which add even more to the scam. WoW has very expensive vanity pets (25 for each one last I looked, and 50 for a mount)...EVE had their monocole and other cash shop items which were more expensive than what WoW offered. Lots of pay to play MMOs have cash shops. Might as well be free.

     but those are just vanity items that have zero impact on the game, the problem i have found is when you have items in the shop that you can ONLY get by spending real money and those items impact the game. this gives people a huge advantage in the game over people who dont spend the money.

    but there are really 2 kinds of ( free ) games out there. ones that let players pay a monthly fee and they can get everything in the game just like the people who would rather buy it with real money.

    and ( free ) games that dont have a monthly sub option and you must spend big bucks in the item shop to compete with others and if u dont you get mopped up in pvp/sieges, or end game pve.

    GW2, Aion and TERA have only vanity items, and don't cost any monthly payment.

     are you sure about this? so in each one of those games i can d/l it for free and play the entire game without spending a single dollar on content or anything. and IF i wanted to spend money its only for vanity items?

    yup. At least GW2 and TERA...Aion may have changed in the past month or two (haven't played it in a while). If anyone wants to counter argument, they can take a screenshot of a supposed pay to win item or content in GW2.

     

    Unless you are talking about future expansions. Which you'll probably need to buy. WoW has those.

    image
  • WylfWylf Brentwood, CAPosts: 159Member
    Originally posted by TheScavenger

    Free to Play is the future...MMOs like SWTOR, LOTR, DDO, TERA, Aion (among many others) and GW2 show that the pay to play model is a scam. It is outdated, and will become even more niche than it ever was. There is no reason to pay for an MMO every month, when you can get far more content every month in GW2, or amazing combat of TERA or the very free Aion. Or SWTOR for the great story. And heck, LOTR and DDO let you earn points in-game so you don't even need to spend any money. And they are all surviving, and doing far better than any pay to play MMO.

    Pure nonsense, you state conclusions without any basis in fact. That you prefer FTP is a legitimte opinion. But your assertion that FTP is the future and PTP is a scam sounds akin to a poor attempt at stirring up some controversy.  I am calling BS on your claims.

  • PalaPala OxfordPosts: 128Member Uncommon
    Rubbish, perfect for me is free trial then p2p and no cash shop. Everything else annoys me and I refuse to play those  games. Cash shops ruin immersion for me and I just cant get over it. Let me pay and play the rest doesnt interes me.
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    [mod edit]

    if it's mainstream it's not 'the future'. it's 'the present'. 

     

    edit: F2P is fine. The cash shop isn't. League of Legends f2p model or pass.

    image

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    GW2 - You can buy boosts to your xp, gold, magic item finding, rare item finding, karma, glory, buffing, and crafting...

     

    I didn't know getting all those were vanity/cosmetic.

     

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